Saudi Arabia sentences man to 10 years and 2,000 lashes for saying he is an atheist

[Calculating]

Why are these savages our 'allies' again?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/31/saudi-arabia-sentences-man-to-10-years-in-jail-and-2000-lashes-for-tweeting-was-atheist.html

[Jump To Reply]
A court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced a man to ten years in prison and 2,000 lashes for expressing his atheism on Twitter.

The 28-year-old reportedly refused to repent, insisting what he wrote reflected his beliefs and that he had the right to express them.

[whatthehey]

1. It's a religion of peace you know.

But the vast majority of Muslims aren't like that, thankfully, as DU always says. There in the nation that gave the world the origin of the faith and its holiest places we can confidently expect a huge outcry from gentle loving tolerant Muslims condemning the tiny minority who think barbaric torture is an apt response to disagreement.

Just you wait and see. They'll show their true colors. Trust me.

[LanternWaste]

9. Lacking objective evidence, we often resort to cowering behind sarcasm

Lacking objective evidence, we often resort to cowering behind sarcasm to better advertise our own narratives and biases without consequence, regardless of the petulant irrelevancy of what "DU always says."

Trust you, indeed...

[leftynyc]

12. You can call it cowering all you want

That will never change the FACT that DU has a problem with protecting Islam in a way they would never do for any other religion - and all in the name of political correctness. It's not the poster's fault that DU strives to prove Bill Maher right every single day. That said, Saudi Arabia is a shithole and we have no business being allied with such a regime.

[clarice]

26. Yup. nt

[get the red out]

52. Agree

Disgusting and cruel exercise of "beliefs".

[whatthehey]

14. I think we have darn good objective evidence of Saudi attitudes. Exhibit ZZTYGA being this very OP

And I'm not cowering behind shit. I'm openly claiming the sarcasm. These medieval fuckers, and their quisling apologists, deserve far worse than sarcasm. It's just all I can personally send their way.

[clarice]

25. Is there something about the particular group in question that you find common cause with?nt

[patsimp]

40. what objectivity do you need to acccept that lashing someone for free thinking is wrong?

[Cicada]

32. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition

Spanish killed native Americans who refused to convert. So I guess they are as peaceful as Christians. Are you saying Christians lie when they say their religions makes murder a sin? If so, then ok. Islam is not always a religion of peace just as Christianity is not always a religion doing what Christ said to do.

[former9thward]

57. You have to go back 500 years to find some equivalency in your mind...

People can't change what happened 500 years ago but they can try to change what is happening today. Or do you want to see change in this matter?

[patsimp]

41. kick

[JonLP24]

51. The House of Saud are Wahabbis

A faith that comes directly from an 18th century preacher and the first Saud of the Saud dynasty. The fought in many battles over Mecca against the Ottoman Empire, later the British allied with them to break up the Ottoman Empire.

[Marr]

2. This is what Ben Affleck defended with his accusations of bigotry to Bill Maher and Sam Harris.

I'm amazed at the left's general schizophrenia on the topic of Islam. There's no greater force of misogyny, oppression, and anti-intellectualism on the planet, but so many of our fellow liberals seem to think it's somehow noble to defend it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. Because it's 10,000 miles away, whereas a conservative he MIGHT be construed

as possibly agreeing with might be just a few feet away.

That's all it is. Put an asshole like Affleck in an Islamic theocracy for a few days and let's see what tune he sings.

[killbotfactory]

5. Saudi Arabia doesn't equal all Muslims. nt

[trotsky]

7. No of course it doesn't.

However, it is a society based on rules of Islam. Not all Muslims follow the same rules, just like not all Christians. Every believer picks and chooses - doesn't make them less of what they say they are, since no one has the definitive claim to the religion.

[killbotfactory]

21. And we in the west have teamed up with them to overthrow more secular arab nations

Because secular arab nations have tended to align themselves with Russia.

Russia and their communism is why we put "In God we trust" on our money, and "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance.

[trotsky]

22. Please let me know if you'd like to address what I said. n/t

[killbotfactory]

24. Saudi Arabia represents a faction of Islam.

A faction that is currently trying to genocide all other Islamic factions in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

The Kurds in Syria and Iraq are also Islamic. Their views on the function of government and the rights of women (for instance) could not be more different.

[trotsky]

34. Nonetheless, it's a faction of Islam.

Thank you for conceding the point.

[killbotfactory]

36. Islam itself is a faction of the Abrahamic religions.

The way people lived in biblical times isn't all that different than the way people live under the Islamic State.

[trotsky]

38. I'm not letting any of them off the hook.

The potential for great evil is at the core of all three. It has manifested itself in many ways over the last several thousand years, including the current government of Saudi Arabia (i.e., the topic of this thread).

[Dr. Strange]

13. No, but it is something of a Mecca for Muslims.

[maxsolomon]

17. good one

[citood]

54. Bravo

[whatthehey]

15. But it very much equals a country run by Muslims for Islam.

[killbotfactory]

20. If fundamentalist Christians had their way, our country wouldn't be any better. nt

[whatthehey]

23. True, but a smaller percentage than want this in Saudi Arabia, thank Vishnu

Plus we have the happy accidents that Christianity in its formative years was at best a minority religion with no state power, and then even when it wielded massive state power in the middle and early modern ages, was always checked by burgeoning regional factionalism and later nationalism, to thank for a political philosophy in the west which even in very religious countries tends to have some separation of powers and influence between church and state.

From its very invention Islam had governmental power, and from that day to this has served as a uniting force which almost always overwhelms national or regional loyalty. There is no internal check there for clerical overreach, and so we see more egregious religious nuttery coming from Islamic nations than from Christian ones, despite remarkably similar worldviews among their more fundamentalist believers.

[leftynyc]

28. I keep hearing that

but I've yet to see any group with any power in this country ever try to put laws on the books that would beat a person for being an atheist. Perhaps you have a story you'd like to link to. Otherwise, you're just minimizing what these people are ACTUALLY going through in order to trash the US - which is nothing short of pathetic.

[killbotfactory]

30. I grew up in a fundamentalist christian religion.

The only reason they aren't executing gays and atheists is because we are a secular nation and we have laws forbidding it. That's why the US is GOOD.

The bad part of the US is that we have struck deals with nations like Saudi Arabia, because at the time, we hated gays, women, and atheists just as much as the Saudis' and it didn't bother us. We've continued our relationship with Saudi Arabia because our guiding geopolitical strategy is completely amoral.

[leftynyc]

31. There is only one reason

we have a relationship with SA - OIL. My beef is with the claim that we'd be exactly the same if possible. Well, we have the constitution so NO, we'll never be the same. It's a specious argument. Why DU feels the need to protect Islam - and no other religion - is beyond my comprehension but I wont be part of it.

[killbotfactory]

35. We are not "protecting" islam, we are protecting the people who follow the religion

Most of which were born into and just want to live peacefully along side other people.

If some Muslims in this country were organizing to try and bring Saudi Arabia style laws to the US everyone on DU would be against that and would be fighting against THOSE Muslims.

You will never hear anyone on DU sing the praises of Saudi Arabia. You WILL hear them defend individual Muslims, or the lumping of all Muslims into the same camp as the Islamic State death cult, because that is incredibly bigoted.

[leftynyc]

39. Then why the need

to make a specious claim like "we'd be just the same"? It's a bullshit way to deflect from the very real problems that exist for women, gays and other minorities in Muslim countries. Those are just facts. This man is likely to be BEATEN TO DEATH for being an atheist - why the constant need to deflect from this?

[killbotfactory]

42. It's not "we", it's fundamentalist religions of any stripe.

Saudi Arabia is what happens when fundamentalists gain overwhelming political power. If you are a religion based on the bible, and you are a fundamentalist, you believe pretty much the same shit that hardcore Islamist's do.

I have yet to hear anyone condemning all Christians or Jews for the worst of their sacred texts the way I have heard people condemning all Muslims for the worst of theirs. Christians and Jews get the benefit of the doubt. Muslims get thrown in the with the regressive nations in the middle east, regardless of what their actual beliefs and practices are. The reason the middle east and the west are different in this regard are largely due to factors outside of the religion itself.

[leftynyc]

45. Are you kidding me?

EVERY SINGLE TIME a story like this comes out about a Muslim problem, you can count on at least 5 people on DU trying to deflect from it the same way you do. Christians and Jews get slammed ROUTINELY around here when comparable stories come out and yet nobody feels the need to point to Islam as having the same or comparable problems. That ONLY happens when Islam is the culprit.

[killbotfactory]

47. Do you distinguish between Muslims in the US and Muslims in the ME?

Or that there are differences between Muslims in the ME?

You understand they are not a hive mind, right?

[leftynyc]

48. Don't even think of condescending to me

We're done here.

[killbotfactory]

50. Believe it or not I'm considering what you've said.

Here's my sticking point. In the recent past, when the the KKK or the IRA killed people, no politician openly called for banning Christian immigration to this country. We understood that what motivates those people to do those things were not intrinsically tied to their religion. It bothers me when we don't give the same courtesy to Muslims.

[Oneironaut]

10. I am not a fan of Affleck's form of Liberalism.

Remember when he tried to scrub the fact that his ancestor owned slaves? He clearly puts himself on a pedestal.

[Calculating]

18. Who cares if his ancestor owned slaves?

He had nothing to do with it. Why should he feel any guilt about it?

[Oneironaut]

33. That's exactly my point.

Why did he inject himself into the editing process? Who cares if his ancestors owned slaves? Apparently he did for some reason.

[Calculating]

16. Well put

Fundamentalist Islam is a sworn enemy of education, tolerance, equality and progressive thinking in general. Basically the opposite of anything liberal or progressive in nature. Why some liberals/progressives defend it is something I'll never understand.

It's just like the Burkini thing. Burkas are symbols of misogyny and oppression of women. Just because women have been culturally conditioned to want/accept them doesn't make them any less oppressive.

[patsimp]

43. criticism or questions are not tolerated on DU on this topic.

Ben Affleck would be stoned to death in Saudia Arabia for adultery.

[phylny]

46. Hmm. Plenty of evangelical

Christians who believe women are second-class citizens, gay people are sinners, the world is 6,000 years old and that the world will end on a specific date that keeps changing.

Muslims don't own the only key to the crazy clown car. I defend no crazies and accuse no peaceful people, no matter what, if any, religion.

[Marr]

49. This sort of 'yeah, but we suck, too' isn't helpful in the slightest.

We have religious nuts in the west, too, yes. But they're marginalized about as well as any segment of the population can be in a representational form of government. The religious nuts run the show in the much of the Islamic world, from the offices of government to the head of the dinner table. Insisting otherwise is an insult to all the people they hold down every day.

[get the red out]

53. I had hoped that since they were persecuting a man in this case

That people might wake up and give a damn.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

4. I'm sure that many people here will condemn it.

Rightly so! That doesn't mean that religious privilege doesn't exist.

Religious people can easily avoid the company of atheists. They can turn on the TV and see many religious people like themselves. They have recognized holidays. They can see religious dogma on billboards, bumper stickers, money, etc. and not feel marginalized.

[struggle4progress]

6. No name given. No court specified. No location provided. No date for event.

I think Saudi Arabia pretty much sucks, but nobody can do anything with reporting like this

On edit: maybe this is the story:

... In 2012, blogger and activist Raif Badawi, 32, ran a website called “Free Saudi Liberals” and was arrested for "insulting Islam through electronic channels,” "setting up a website that undermines general security," "ridiculing Islamic religious figures," and "going beyond the realm of obedience.” He was sentenced in 2014 to 10 years in prison, 1000 lashes, and a fine of 1 million riyals, with the public whipping take take place over a period of 20 weeks ... The whippings began January 9, 2015 ...

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160831/1044830750/saudi-arabia-atheism-twitter-lashings.html

[Warpy]

29. It looked like an old story, recycled, to me also

Pox News trots this stuff out on slow news days. It's not like they can report on Drumpf's glorious visit to Mexico.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. From February, I think - here's the AP story:

Saudi Arabia sentences a man to 10 years in prison and 2,000 lashes for expressing his atheism on Twitter

A court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced a man to 10 years in prison and 2,000 lashes for expressing his atheism in hundreds of social media posts.

The report carried in Al-Watan says the 28-year-old man admitted to being an atheist and refused to repent, saying that what he wrote reflected his own beliefs and that he had the right to express them. The report did not name the man.

It added that ‘religious police’ in charge of monitoring social networks found more than 600 tweets denying the existence of God, ridiculing the Quranic verses, accusing all prophets of lies and saying their teaching fuelled hostilities. The court also fined him 20,000 riyals – or, just short of £4,000
...
Speaking at the time the new measures were introduced Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director of Human Rights Watch, said: "Saudi authorities have never tolerated criticism of their policies, but these recent laws and regulations turn almost any critical expression or independent association into crimes of terrorism.

Associated Press

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-sentence-man-to-10-years-in-prison-and-2000-lashes-for-expressing-his-atheism-on-a6900056.html

Seems too close, complete with the Joe Stork quote, to be a different instance. Fox, and their partners-in-crime at The Sun, aren't the most diligent journalists in the world.

Ah yes, I did post it on DU at the time: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218224274

[Taitertots]

8. Is this an Islamic doctrine or not?

Where are the other 1.6 billion Muslims condemning this act committed in the name of Islam?

Cartoons = widespread protest and condemnation (rejection)
Executions = silence (implicit acceptance)

[patsimp]

44. good question.

[Marr]

56. Islamic doctrine would be to execute him.

The punishment for apostasy in Islam is death.

Like you, I'm continually amazed by the double standard on this topic.

[CBGLuthier]

11. Now now, we are supposed to respect them because they had a hell of a civilization while Europe

was still crawling in the mud. Of course the fact they have gone backwards and then stuck squarely in the dark ages should be ignored in the name of tolerance.

[Initech]

19. Thank God for the first amendment!

And fuck Saudi Arabia. Seriously.

[Mike Nelson]

27. This is why they...

..."hate America" after their revolutions. We should tell the "royal" family of tyrants to go to hell.

[BSdetect]

55. Donald from Dumbfuckistan will sort them out quick smart

faster than you can blink - in the first hour of his first day (just after his inauguration) when he rushes back to the White House or on his Twitter phone.

Believe me...

Wait, he probably will have to close his business interests first.



.