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Thu Sep 1, 2016, 02:35 PM

Pope Francis says neglecting the environment is a sin.

Last edited Thu Sep 1, 2016, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)

And millions of Catholics agree -- another reason Catholic voters are strongly swinging to Hillary Clinton and away from what's-his-name.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/09/01/pope-francis-makes-care-for-the-planet-a-new-act-of-mercy-like-care-for-the-poor/

The modern world has new forms of poverty, Francis said, and thus requires new forms of mercy to address them.

“When we mistreat nature, we also mistreat human beings,” he wrote in his message for the World Day of Prayer for the Care of Creation, which falls on Sept. 1. He discussed the effect of global warming, which he noted is caused in part by human activity, on the world’s poorest people.

“This is leading to ever more severe droughts, floods, fires and extreme weather events,” Francis wrote. “Climate change is also contributing to the heart-rending refugee crisis. The world’s poor, though least responsible for climate change, are most vulnerable and already suffering its impact.”

Environmental awareness, along with concern for the world’s poor, especially in the global south, has been a clear concern of Francis’s papacy since he became the first non-European pope since the eighth century. His first major treatise as pope was last year’s “Laudato Si,” an encyclical on the environment that linked human mishandling of the climate to mistreatment of the poor. He quoted frequently from that encyclical in his message Thursday.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-francis-environment-1.3744274

Pope Francis on Thursday proposed that caring for the environment be added to the traditional seven works of mercy that Christians are called to perform, taking his green agenda to a new level by supplementing Jesus' Gospel call to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit the sick.

Francis made the ambitious proposal in a message to mark the church's World Day of Prayer for the Care of Creation, which he instituted last year in a bid to highlight his ecological concerns.

"God gave us the earth 'to till and to keep' in a balanced and respectful way," Francis said. "To till too much, to keep too little, is to sin."

Officials said the call was the logical extension of Francis' landmark and controversial ecological encyclical issued last year. In it, the world's first Latin American pope called for a revolution to correct what he said was a "structurally perverse" economic system in which the rich have exploited the poor and turned the Earth into an "immense pile of filth."

SNIP

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pope Francis says neglecting the environment is a sin. (Original post)
pnwmom Sep 2016 OP
Wounded Bear Sep 2016 #1
hunter Sep 2016 #2
Glassunion Sep 2016 #9
trotsky Sep 2016 #3
pnwmom Sep 2016 #4
trotsky Sep 2016 #5
pnwmom Sep 2016 #7
trotsky Sep 2016 #8
pnwmom Sep 2016 #13
trotsky Sep 2016 #14
pnwmom Sep 2016 #16
LanternWaste Sep 2016 #18
trotsky Sep 2016 #19
pnwmom Sep 2016 #22
Hortensis Sep 2016 #24
trotsky Sep 2016 #38
Hortensis Sep 2016 #41
trotsky Sep 2016 #42
Hortensis Sep 2016 #43
trotsky Sep 2016 #44
Hortensis Sep 2016 #45
trotsky Sep 2016 #46
Hortensis Sep 2016 #47
JonLP24 Sep 2016 #37
Act_of_Reparation Sep 2016 #20
pnwmom Sep 2016 #21
Act_of_Reparation Sep 2016 #25
pnwmom Sep 2016 #26
Act_of_Reparation Sep 2016 #27
pnwmom Sep 2016 #28
Act_of_Reparation Sep 2016 #30
rug Sep 2016 #36
LanternWaste Sep 2016 #17
hunter Sep 2016 #35
trotsky Sep 2016 #39
malthaussen Sep 2016 #6
Glassunion Sep 2016 #10
dembotoz Sep 2016 #40
LittleDuckie Sep 2016 #11
trotsky Sep 2016 #12
magicnpoetry Sep 2016 #15
Hieronymus Sep 2016 #23
Albertoo Sep 2016 #29
pnwmom Sep 2016 #31
Albertoo Sep 2016 #32
pnwmom Sep 2016 #34
roamer65 Sep 2016 #33

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 02:43 PM

1. One issue I agree with him on...nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 02:58 PM

2. I'll never figure out Christians who are happy to trash their god's creation...

... and piss on those who study its mechanisms.

It's no coincidence these are the same people who hate various neighbors, sometimes to the point of killing them.



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Response to hunter (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:42 PM

9. My RW BIL is one of those.

He has the view that God gave dominion (which is indeed mentioned in the bible) over the earth. Gen 1:26 - and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

He feels that this "dominion over" equates to a form of dominance, and since we have a God-given dominance over the earth, we can do with it, and consume it as we please. He has at least stopped denying human caused global warming. He feels that God will simply come back and end everything anyway, so there is no need to take care of the planet. He then goes on a rant about how hypocritical I am because I take more than about 10 minutes to shower (man-scaping is delicate work).

It's this pecking and choosing verses, and selective defining of words without reading the context that really annoys the crap out of me. First dominion means to have sovereignty over, not domination over. On the most simplistic level, to be sovereign over something, is to be its caretaker, or more aptly a warden. I read one of the Pope's tweets a while back that stated pretty much the same thing. Two verses later (context is key), God speaks to them and says: be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it... "Replenish" in this context tells me to perhaps replant a tree that I cut down, don't wipe out wildlife but maintain it. Basically don't consume it at, but to be its warden and care for it. There is a natural order of things, and to completely consume anything in that order can and will have a detrimental effect on the entire system.

"Subdue" I read simply as not wrestling the earth into compliance, but to instead build upon it, or working it to your needs. You subdue a field when you till it, you subdue the elements of nature by building a roof over your head, etc...

And yes, my BIL really needs to work on the golden rule too...

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:11 PM

3. Other things he says are sins:

* Homosexuality
* Being transgender
* Making your own choices about reproduction

Glad he's on board about environmentalism (pushed by science decades ago), but let's not pretend that his decreeing something necessarily gives it a special importance.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:17 PM

4. Catholics are 25% of the population -- an important swing vote. So it isn't pretending

to say that the popular Pope's views are significant.

(Though Catholics are much less likely to agree with the Church's positions on birth control and LGBT.)

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:20 PM

5. And on the items I mentioned, they're important swing votes for Republicans.

Not to mention that when push comes to shove, your church opposes reproductive choice over everything else.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:29 PM

7. Not true. Pope Francis and the majority of Catholics do not prioritize

reproductive issues over everything else. And American Catholics reject the hierarchy's position on birth control and abortion.

While certain Catholics may vote for Republicans based on those issues, the majority of Catholics are swinging away this year -- based on many other concerns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/28/donald-trump-has-a-massive-catholic-problem/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_fix-catholics-825am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Donald Trump has a massive Catholic problem

Update: At the bottom of this post, I dive into suggestions that Trump struggles with Catholics because they are largely Latino. In fact, it's more about white Catholics. The rest of this post is from Sunday.

Much has been made of Donald Trump’s problems with a few voting groups — female voters, blacks and Hispanics, and young voters, in particular. And, to be sure, they are all problems.

But relatively speaking, his biggest problem actually appears to be with a different group: Catholics.

Yes, the man who once feuded with the pope (how soon we forget that actually happened) is cratering among Catholics.

SNIP

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:37 PM

8. Absolutely true.

Abortion is a sin worse than most in the eyes of your church and pope.

And MOST American Catholics (57%) consider abortion to be a sin. http://www.pewforum.org/2015/09/02/chapter-5-beliefs-about-sin/

BTW, the "Catholic problem" Drumpf has is because of non-white Catholics who likely have plenty of non-religious reasons to oppose him. White Catholics prefer him. https://www.ncronline.org/news/politics/pew-hispanic-catholics-largely-favor-clinton-white-catholics-split-lean-trump

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Response to trotsky (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:49 PM

13. As I said, American Catholics reject that view. Even those who consider abortion a sin,

consider many other positions of Donald Trump's to be equally or more sinful -- because decisions about abortion are often made under stress, not greed or hate.

Pope Francis said, in speaking of Trump, that anyone who is more concerned with building walls than bridges is not a Christian.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/28/donald-trump-has-a-massive-catholic-problem/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_fix-catholics-825am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Donald Trump has a massive Catholic problem

Update: At the bottom of this post, I dive into suggestions that Trump struggles with Catholics because they are largely Latino. In fact, it's more about white Catholics. The rest of this post is from Sunday.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:54 PM

14. Some American Catholics reject it. The majority do not.

And white Catholics currently support Trump over Clinton.

I realize those facts are hard for you to acknowledge.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:58 PM

16. The majority of Catholics reject the Church's views on reproductive issues.

Catholics are just as likely to use birth control or have an abortion as are non-Catholics.

And Trump is trailing Clinton even among white Catholics, who preferred Romney over Obama. Your Pew survey was conducted in mid-June. White Catholics have swung away from Trump since that horrendous convention.

The real movement here is among white Catholics. While Romney won them by 19 points -- 59-40 -- Trump currently trails among them by three points, 44-41. And given Latinos are about one-third of U.S. Catholics -- and even fewer when it comes to Catholic voters -- it becomes clear that this shift is not about Trump's Hispanic problem, but his Catholic problem, writ large.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/28/donald-trump-has-a-massive-catholic-problem/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_fix-catholics-825am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

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Response to trotsky (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 04:11 PM

18. PNWMOM is supplying sources to support her premise, while you merely allege "facts."

 

Oddly enough, PNWMOM is supplying sources to support her premise, while you merely allege "facts."

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 04:17 PM

19. Oddly enough, my facts have links to surveys and data.

Those facts are stubborn things.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 04:50 PM

22. You linked to a pre-convention Pew poll. I linked to an August ABC news poll.

My survey is more reflective of the views of Catholic voters since the convention, when the differences between the campaigns became very stark.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 09:28 AM

24. Knee-jerk bigotry against a religion is as noxious as any other,

and every bit as potentially bloody and dangerous. Just because our last religious massacres in this nation seem to have been a long time ago, "nothing to do with us," is no reason to forget or excuse. This discussion would not be about polls if black people were the object instead of religion.

And now, I really, really, really like and admire the man who is the planet's current pope. We all caught a break with this one, and goodness knows we need all we can get.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:06 AM

38. You can go ahead and like and admire a man who wants the following:

Reproductive rights restricted.
Homosexuality opposed.
Marriage equality banned.

But I have the right to oppose him. Clearly that really sticks in the craw of some people, but I won't compromise my principles just because a misogynistic homophobic bigot says something once in a while that seems nice.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #38)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 01:32 PM

41. Doesn't stick in my craw at all. I take extremely seriously

the principles outlined in our Declaration of Independence that we all are created equal and entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I believe those cover all those issues.

But I emphatically do NOT admire ignoring the good in good people specifically to reduce them to something that intolerant people can then enjoy despising, even imagine themselves superior to.

The political purpose of those prone to this indulgence, of course, is to cast those one disagrees with as enemies who should be blocked and destroyed. This is exactly what conservatives have been doing to liberals, so successfully that most are so warped in their viewpoints that they cannot cross the ballot to vote against a candidate they know to (also) be evil.

We are all the sum of our parts and of our effects on our world, Trotsky. I have many conservative acquaintances who are good, kind, generous, conscientious mothers, friends, employees, etc., but who accept the idea that using nuclear weapons on Iran is inevitable.

How do you average out, Trotsky? How do you imagine your average compares to Francis's? Don't forget to compare the hours you and he devote to bettering the wellbeing of mankind in your own ways.

Just think, don't answer.

“It is possible to read the history of this country as one long struggle to extend the liberties established in our Constitution to everyone in America.” -- Molly Ivins


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Response to Hortensis (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 01:42 PM

42. My female and LGBTQ friends/family mean more to me than platitudes.

That is what I think, and what I will answer.

And if the RCC were serious about fighting poverty, it would allow women reproductive choice. As it is, their official policy exacerbates what they claim they want to alleviate.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 01:44 PM

43. That total person thing, Trotsky.

My acquaintances who shrug resignedly, and sometimes with satisfaction, at the need to murder 60 million people in Iran also care about their friends. Some are terrific friends, extremely thoughtful and giving.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 01:47 PM

44. Sorry, but I won't accept bigotry, or policies that devalue women.

If the "total person" requires me to accept those, then I will never be as perfect as you. It's a burden I'll have to bear.

Meanwhile, I'll support efforts to fight poverty that actually address the issue rather than simultaneously promote policies that make it worse. (No comment on that, eh? I understand.)

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Response to trotsky (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 01:59 PM

45. But, IMO you DO accept bigotry in Francis's case, the

way you accept other things automatically.

That's the point. Ignoring or denying what is good about those seen as "others" is an absolute requirement for bigotry. The sum of any Catholic is NOT those few issues he disagrees with you on.

None of this is about changing your opinions on on those few issues, which I happen to share. It's about the dreadful, destructive phenomenon of demonizing others.

Again, how do the good and bad in you average out? As a whole person, how to you compare to other normal people? Forget a giant like Francis. Just...normal people. Like all the Republicans who demonize you because they disagree with you on some issues? Do you feel you are at least less prone to demonizing than them, less contributing than the typical Republican to the potential for all the demonizing oters leads to? Maybe it's confined to Francis himself and not extended to the 1.5 billion Catholics on this planet?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #45)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:05 PM

46. It's not bigotry to oppose a bigot.

That's bullshit out of the right-wing playbook, and it has no place on DU.

Keeping women locked into poverty doesn't "average out" because someone says we should take care of the environment. Look, we've agreed that I will never be as perfect as you. I'm also not willing to sell out my female and LGBTQ friends either. So give me one last lecture if you want, I won't be reading it.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #46)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:09 PM

47. You aren't trying to understand. The bigotry

of others does not negate demonization of them by ourselves. If that were the case, two mutual hatemongers would cancel each other's hate out, leaving two relatively accepting guys.

As I said, no one is only the sum of what we do not like about them. The sum of Pope Francis's effects on the world is not only the sum of those effects we disapprove of.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #18)

Sat Sep 3, 2016, 01:34 AM

37. Look again

The poster has sources for his/her claims.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 04:30 PM

20. In other words:

1) The good things the Pope says about the environment are important because he's influential.

2) The shitty things the Pope says about non-heteronormative people don't matter because no one listens to the Pope.

Hm. Something's not right...

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 04:37 PM

21. IOW, Catholics, based on a variety of concerns, are swinging away from Trump and toward Clinton.

And since they're 25% of the population, that's a good thing.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 09:35 AM

25. In other words:

Most American Catholics are informed primarily by their immediate surroundings, and not so much the Pope.

But we already knew that.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 09:44 AM

26. The Pope is strongly pro-environment, and pro- the poor, and pro- refugee and immigrant.

That can't be said for everyone in America.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 09:57 AM

27. They remain popular positions nevertheless.

And since his more vile positions on non-heteronormatives and contraceptives are so wildly unpopular with American Catholics, we can only assume his influence over American political thought is at best extremely limited.

Of course there's going to be some disparities between Catholics and the general population that would push parishioners towards the Democrats, but Pope Francis doesn't explain any of them. Socialization and demographics do.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #27)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 10:07 AM

28. There is far more emphasis in the typical Catholic Sunday service on issues regarding the poor than

there are of the social issues rightwingers like to focus on..

Nowhere in the Bible readings is there anything about abortion or birth control; whereas there are many passages about serving the poor and the sick -- so that is most of what Catholics hear about week after week in Church.

I've gone my entire life without hearing a single mention of homosexuality from the pulpit, even though there is at least one mention in the Old Testament. Maybe because Fr. Andrew Greeley the sociologist was correct that there are so many gay priests.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 10:37 AM

30. I don't find personal experience very compelling.

I was raised in the Church, too. Our individual experiences were different, but don't mean much in the grander scheme of things. Just because you went through however many years of sermons without reference to homosexuality doesn't mean the experience at the parish down the road from you was even remotely similar.

What I can tell you is this: The College of American Bishops has taken a very hard stance against non-heteronormatives, and their parishioners are pretty much ignoring them, just like they ignore them on the matter of contraceptives, cohabitation, sex before marriage, and the highly questionable use of certain non-vaginal orifices for sexual gratification.

This has nothing to do with scripture. American Catholics screw, cohabitate, contracept, and give/receive blowjobs because it has become socially acceptable to screw, cohabitate, contracept, and give/receive blowjobs. More and more Catholics have warmed to the equal status of gay people because it has become more and more socially unacceptable to hate on gay people.

This isn't the 1960's. Or the 1970's. Or the 1980's. Our society has become more educated, more diverse, and more mobile. The minute kids started moving away from the neighborhoods their parents lived in all their lives, the Catholic church was robbed of much of its influence. Our social standing is no longer related to our adherence to Catholic dogma, and as a result, Catholic dogma became far, far less important to our day-to-day living... particularly the dogma that bans fun things for no particular reason.

But if you really want to talk about personal experience, my personal experience was this: Sunday after Sunday after Sunday, the same hundred or so people crawled into church because it was expected of them.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 10:39 PM

36. That's the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, not "The College of American Bishops".

 

That was its name in the 1960's. And the 1970's. And the 1980's.

It's also not the only factual error in your post.

Your opinion is . . . . simply your opinion.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 04:09 PM

17. I guess his progressive cred bounce from Sanders' visit a few months back is pretty much over.

 

I guess his progressive cred bounce from Sanders' visit a few months back is pretty much over.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 05:21 PM

35. U.S. Catholics are a very diverse group, similar to Jewish people.

You can find any sort you like, from right wing authoritarian assholes to progressive social democrats who are indistinguishable in their politics from socialist atheists.

I happen to exist in a very progressive and pacifist Catholic community which is for the most part second and third generation Hispanic, Filipino and wild west white people. No Trump supporters there. I've also lived in "conservative" Catholic communities where the Priests are dumber than rocks and the old people are still bitching about Vatican II and slapping kids who don't dress up for Mass.

My ancestors were frontier Catholics, Jews, and Anabaptist pacifists living in the heart of Mormon territory. They were valued as people who could settle disputes outside of backstabbing Mormon politics. A few of them were water-masters and surveyors, later managing the phone lines too. And a few of them were purveyors of alcohol and French postcards. As teens both my grandfathers dreamed of owning gas stations, repairing the automobiles of travelers, and conducting other delicate business on the side. Damned all of them were thoroughly contaminated by the Irish too.

My mom wanted to be a nun when she was a kid. She was jumping through the hoops. Then she met a leering hard drinking hard smoking venal Catholic priest. That was when her Berserker genes asserted themselves.

My mom still had a bunch of kids Catholic style, drove a car with "Choose Life" license plate frames, but her method of preventing abortions was to be an evangelist for birth control and happy safe consensual sex. Me and my siblings were all terrified we'd have unplanned for children because my mom told us she'd take them as her own if we could not, and none of us wanted the three bedroom house to be any more crowded.

I was changing babies' diapers when I was ten years old. I knew babies were a messy business. I also knew where they came from.

When I was a teen my mom had a local radio show and she invited the Bishop who was in town to speak. It was a perfectly lovely show, how we should support the local Mexican farmworker community and everything.

After the show, myself an unfortunate witness, my mom brought up the issue of a local pedophile priest who'd been transferred to Ireland. The argument ended in a literal queen of all she surveys bitch-slapping match that my mom won. No, not just words, but actual bitch slapping. Later that year my mom ghost-wrote a ferociously anti-Catholic book for someone who'd been abused as a child.

I'm a son of a bitch.

Nevertheless, I'm some kind of Catholic. That's my community. Human baby souls do not get to choose their parents or where they will be born. It's all fucking random.

My wife and I enjoyed a big Catholic Wedding and I was terrified the night before, not about getting married, but that my mom or her literally religiously insane wild west mother (who was later buried in a plain wooden box with a Star of David on it) would make some kind of scene. My dad's dad did not attend our wedding because I was, in his own words, marrying a "Mexican Girl."

He got over that.








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Response to hunter (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:08 AM

39. Have I ever claimed otherwise?

I realize it's easy and fun to argue against a straw man, but I never claimed Catholics were monolithic in anything. The OP appears to want to promote that notion though - warning everyone that Catholics are a huge voting bloc. Perhaps you should correct her.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:20 PM

6. If one considers "dominion" to mean stewardship, he has a point...

... however, the more popular reading of "dominion" is "milk everything out of it until the whole thing goes down in flames."

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:44 PM

10. Post #9

You describe my brother-in-law to a T.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:36 AM

40. i was always taught stewardship.....as a prot must add that

i find the gop contemptible on this basis alone

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:47 PM

11. Oh, good.

 

Then he should also see the problem with overpopulation & start *encouraging* birth control & abortion.

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Response to LittleDuckie (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:47 PM

12. LOL

Yeah, right!

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Sep 1, 2016, 03:55 PM

15. With Pope Frank

 

I wish Catholics still believed the Pope is infallible. That seems to be conveniently forgotten now...

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 08:54 AM

23. Pope Francis is right again.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 10:20 AM

29. A broken clock is right twice per day, so is Francis

 

Not ONE word of support for African gays during his tour there.

A continuation of the mad no-condoms policy

A wilful blindness to the rise of Islamism

Francis is not better than his predecessors in conservative Vatican

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 10:39 AM

31. "A willful blindness to the rise of Islamism"? The Church has been concerned about that

far longer than the average US politician.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #31)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 12:14 PM

32. In medieval times, maybe. Francis? No.

 

Not that I expect much from a religious witch doctor any old way anyway.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #32)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 01:59 PM

34. I've been hearing warnings about it since Pope John Paul. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Sep 2, 2016, 12:44 PM

33. I find it hard to take anything a pope says seriously on the environment.

Biggest move on the environment the Catholic Church could make is to aggressively start to back contraception...worldwide.

Until then it's all just window dressing.

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