I am *in* *it* with a rightie about gun regulation...

[LaydeeBug]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by etherealtruth (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I said we should regulate them like cars and:

He is saying that he never had to be fingerprinted to buy a car

that he 'had to pass a handgun and general firearms safety course. No biggie.'

And that 'cars are regulated because there's a shit ton of money in it.'

continued...'Taxes and tolls and license fees. Regulations fees. Emissions testing. All taxes slid into different categories to cause confusion.'

I *HAVE* to run out for my mother. Anything you can add for sensible gun regulation would be greatly appreciated.

[radical noodle]

1. Each state is different

In Indiana there is no fingerprinting to buy a gun. The fingerprinting in Indiana is when you want a concealed carry permit. There is no training required there. In Florida you must take a class to concealed carry. So there is no one argument about gun regs. Those are the only states I am personally familiar with.

[Missn-Hitch]

2. See Missouri. Cheers.

[Hoyt]

3. If he's a white winger -- gunz, racism, Jingoism, etc., are part of core beliefs. Arguing with

them is difficult because they find those deplorable beliefs laudable. They are proud of it. Strapping on a gun to walk to the store makes them feel whole and lessens their fear of a world that scares them and they just don't understand.

Good luck.

[LaydeeBug]

6. He's a right winger, not a white winger...

so while I don't expect to change his mind, I don't him to be able to influence our common friends with this tripe.

[CK_John]

4. It's a constitution vs a state issue, apple vs orange no game.

[apcalc]

5. Children accidently kill others with guns.

Not often with cars. Why not?

[librechik]

7. requiring liabilty insurance makes too much sense. If they can't agree with that

(own as many guns as you want, jackass, just make sure they are all insured)

then they are not worth talking to.

They weren't anyway--rightwingers have programmed cliches in their minds, not logic or compassion. Scared little mites who can't tolerate anything not of their world.

[procon]

8. Liability suits bring jury awards in the millions, so that qualifies as a "shit ton of money"

Whether it's cars or guns, public safety is the big issue. Depending on the state, you have to prove you can competently drive a car by taking training classes, passing regular written an practical test for a state license, and at least a minimal health test like vision. Your car must comply with state safety regulations, and you have to prove your car is road worthy by getting regular state inspection certifications. The state also requires you to indemnify the public by maintaining liability insurance in the event your vehicle is involved in an accident.

Guns are at least as lethal as a car, and accidents are bound to happen, and the public wants to have the legal recourse for redress in both cases.

[vlyons]

9. Cars and trucks are regulated at different gov levels for different reasons

At the Federal level, there are employee safety regulations in the making of cars. Then there are economy of gas usage regulations, emission regulations, VIN number regulations, seat belt regulations, and speed in interstate highway regulations. Plus commercial trucks have their own set of regulations.

At the state level, there are driver license regulations, insurance regulations, inspection regulations, posted speed regulations, title transfer and ownership regulations, signaling and car lights regulayions, and DUI regulations.

At the county and city level, there are posted speed and parking regulations.

But here's the deal, anyone who opposes sensible gun regulations is a selfish pig. Every adult has civic responsibilities, whether we like them or not. We comply with these regulations, so that all of us, every single one of us, can live with one another is a safe society. To flaunt ignorance and dislike of sensible gun regulations for one's personal convenience is selfish.

I am a gun owner. I bought my gun 30 years ago from a gun shop, where they did a background check on me. I had to wait a whole 24 hrs to get the gun. I didn't whine and complain about it.

[flamin lib]

10. Cars are regulated in part to recover damages people do with them, eg

mandatory liability insurance. Guns create about $15 billion toward the GDP but cost $226 billion in damages. Regulating like cars can mitigate that loss of GDP. Bullets would have to cost about $50 each to make up the difference without forced insurance.

Cars are registered so the owner can be traced in the event of damage to others caused by it AND to allow liability transfer when it is sold or given away.

Cars are regulated under the consumer protection act so they can be recalled when a dangerous situation is found. Guns are exempt. As a result car fatalities have fallen below gun fatalities as they are improved. Guns are essentially the same as they were in 1880.

I could go on but the person you are talking to won't hear it anyway.

[PJMcK]

12. Your last sentence nails this (n/t)

[PJMcK]

11. Okay, I'll try

Before I begin, let me be clear: I am not a gun owner or user and although I don't care for guns myself, I don't really care what others do as long as no one gets hurt.

So, here goes. Let's have states regulate guns and gun users the same way we do with automobiles and drivers: both guns and their owners are licensed and have registered serial numbers.

All drivers should be fingerprinted. Why not? The states already have all of our personal information. Given that we've accepted a need for greater security in our nation, what could one's fingerprints reveal about an individual that the state doesn't already know? More importantly, it could protect one's innocence if the weapon were used to commit a crime. (I'm sure someone can offer a downside to this as well as the rest of my suggestions.)

States have different insurance requirements for automobiles. In New York, where I live, one must have liability insurance but collision coverage is optional. For firearms, states could require liability insurance for every licensed gun. Since there are drivers' education classes and defensive driving classes, offer something similar for gun owners. The premiums needn't be an unbearable expense and discounts could be available for gun owners who continue their weapons education, use a gun safe and other safety-related actions by the owner. As an aside, the insurance industry would love this new business and it would be an interesting battle between them and the NRA for passage of such insurance requirements.

Your "rightie" said that "cars are regulated because there's a shit ton of money in it." Well, the existence of the NRA is specifically supported by the firearms manufacturers. Accordingly, there's a "shit ton of money" in that business, too. In fact, much of that money is cash so it is unregulated and untraceable. In this case, his argument doesn't hold water.

Every state I've lived in requires that my cars be inspected periodically. I believe this is true for all 50 states. Require that every licensed firearm must pass a state-approved inspection every five years.

I'm certain that none of this will ever come to pass but it may help you in your discussion with your "rightie."

Good luck and enjoy the rest of your weekend, LaydeeBug!

[Glassunion]

13. It's all in the nuance

I agree they should all be registered and insured. But I also agree that one should not be fingerprinted in the process. I've never been fingerprinted to register any vehicle.

The penalties should be similar as well. It's never a felony to fail to register your car, it should not be a felony to fail to register a firearm.

[duncang]

14. If someone runs over or runs in to some one else and runs away

You do have evidence on the car that a accident happened. If you shot someone and run away the only evidence may be a shell casing until you actually catch them to match bullet grooves. If you aren't someone who plans to murder people you don't have a worry.

[etherealtruth]

15. I am sorry LOCKING; please refer to the SoP regarding guns in GD

From the detailed SoP

•News stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about efforts to strengthen or weaken gun control legislation in any jurisdiction in the United States, national news stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about high-profile gun crimes, and viral political content from social media or blogs that would likely be of interest to a large majority of DU members are permitted under normal circumstances.

•Local stories about gun crime and "gun porn" threads showing pictures of guns or discussing the merits of various firearms are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted in the Gun Control and RKBA Group.

•Open discussion of guns is permitted during very high-profile news events which are heavily covered across all newsmedia.