HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Do you agree with the NFL...

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:23 PM

 

Do you agree with the NFL expelling acquitted/exonerated players?

The EEOC says an employer should not penalize and employee or applicant if they have arrests where those arrests have not resulted in a conviction? So why is it okay for the NFL to pursue such a policy that flies in the face of equal opportunity, especially since many of the players are black? If a player has even a serious charge like domestic violence dismissed, or he is acquitted, his employer should not have a right to use that arrest against him.

Whatever you feel about drop/no drop policy or even whether a victim's consent to pressing charges matters or not in the criminal justice system, once the case is adjudicated - a private employer should not be able to discriminate on a cleared/dismissed arrest. This is exactly why we have EEO laws and the example the NFL is setting bodes poorly both for exonerated citizens and citizens who have a criminal background that does not affect their job performance, usually minorities.

I understand the Giants kicker in the news is not part of a protected class, but the purging of domestic violence arrestees without regard to disposition of the case started in the NFL with Ray Rice and disproportionately has affected African Americans.

On edit: I'm not defending domestic violence, and I believe the state must prosecute it. What I have an issue with is private employers banning employment of individuals in spite of a favorable adjudication, especially when minorities are involved.

13 replies, 1954 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:26 PM

1. Not on the face of it, the non white players are going to have a harder time in the US legal system

... by design.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:46 PM

2. When There Is Evidence

When there is evidence of wrong doing in a case like in the cases of Ray Rice and the Giants Kicker, the NFL should have the right to suspend, fine, and/or fire the players. Maybe the incident in question could not be proven in a court of law. Maybe the women/person involved in the incident was too scared to cooperate with law enforcement. As a result, the only way a punishment will be handed out is if it is done by the NFL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:53 PM

3. Doesn't matter if I agree.

Some jobs have clauses built into their contracts because they're not just nameless, faceless burger-flippers or factory workers.

Some jobs are staffed by people that are role models, like it or not.

Teachers, for instance. A Spanish teacher was fired for using and teaching the word "negro." When referring to people, she used and taught the word "moreno", but for colors in general "negro" just means "black." Some Af-Am parents pitched a fit over her racist language and she got fired. Along the way, the acrimony was such that the school district was taking some serious PR hits. So they cut the correct person off their staff and placated the dweebs with no clue. Because education is political.

Same for, well, politicians.

And professional athletes. A big bruiser's accused of raping and beating his wife, and, well, others who want to be like him think, "How wrong could it be?" If he's exonerated, that bit of info never gets to the dorks who emulate him. Bad news travels faster than good news. In fact, if he's exonerated some of the idjits will assume he was let off because he was an important athlete and in fact he got away with it--something even more admirable for idjits. The whole "the law doesn't matter, rich and powerful folk have a separate legal system." The "OJ defense" according to many.

Take the now-defunct accounting firm Arthur Anderson. It was caught up in the Enron scandal, filed bankruptcy, and was liquidated. Thing is, the liquidation was finished after it was exonerated. It didn't matter to those who had been its customers. It stank of corruption and malfeasance and nobody would go to their boards and say, "Hey, let's re-hire Arthur Anderson!" In some public jobs, what's said about you is more important than the truth. That's sad, but it's how it works with real people.

Notice that nobody defends Anderson, even though many tens of thousands of people were laid off as a result. Some people we defend, others aren't worth it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Igel (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:49 PM

6. it's been since resolved it happened as such?

 

"A Spanish teacher was fired for using and teaching the word "negro." When referring to people, she used and taught the word "moreno", but for colors...

I know a non-tenured teacher was fired and alleged this was the reason in a 2012 or 2013 NY case... so it's been since resolved it happened as such?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:18 PM

5. How the heck did Josh Brown not get convicted? That's what I'd like to know.

I hate to admit this to anyone, but I have a "domestic violence" record!

It resulted from my ex-wife claiming that she felt "threatened" by me when we had a post-divorce argument. I never threatened her or even touched her, but she "felt threatened" supposedly.

Ohio has a 4th degree misdemeanor category of DV (just above minor misdemeanors like traffic violations) for cases when one party felt threatened by language, and I got nailed for it! I probably made a big mistake by not hiring a lawyer instead relying on a public defender who did nothing for me. I had a clean record until that happened.

The post-divorce argument happened after she claimed to be pregnant with my baby (telling me that just days after the divorce), me basically proving that it wasn't my child based on the ultrasound that she gave me (which indicated the crown-rump length of the fetus and the date the image was taken), her asking me if I'd raise the child as my own if I wasn't the biological father (no) and finally her decision to abort it. Not to mention the other BS that she put me through during the marriage from being an alcoholic. Anyway, I yelled at her briefly after hearing about the abortion, telling her that I was at least relieved that ALL TIES to her were finally broken so I could move on with my life. Cops showed up at my door the next day and I received the citation. She did it to be vindictive, plain and simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 10:53 PM

11. There was one Ohio case, where the wife recanted after the fact

 

Similar to your case, a very low misdemeanor. Bob Taft processed a pardon. However, because the individual was Muslim, the Bush administration was still able to deport him (he was a Green card holder).

Broadly, if we can't trust pardons, victim recantings, the verdict of the judicial system, how is there due process in the system? What an employer says? The INS overriding a pardon by a duly elected governor based on a recanting?

(I do have sympathy for your story and I believe you. I still believe there should be criminal intervention for minor offensive criminal contact for the cases that are true.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 11:12 PM

13. It depends on the employer-employee contract.

As someone else mentioned in this thread, he could be fired for simply being arrested.

It's not right, but that sort of thing happens sometimes. The players union should address it in the future.

Thanks for believing me. It's very embarrassing to me even though I know I didn't do anything wrong. I would've been more likely to toss someone into the "creep" category in the past if I'd seen such a conviction.

Oh, well. I met her in a bar, so I shouldn't have been surprised by her serious drinking problem later. I looked her up in public court records a few years after the divorce, and she was convicted for cocaine possession. She cheated on me while drunk, and that's when I filed for divorce. Then I made another idiotic decision by having sex with her one last time while we were separated, and that's what opened the door to her claiming I was the father of her baby later.

I saw "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" awhile back, and the two main characters reminded me a lot of me and my ex-wife when we were married... except the female lead in the movie seemed much easier to deal with, to be honest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 07:02 PM

7. There is a clause in the player's contract that say that any conduct

detrimental to the league is possible ground for dismissal. The Player's union has agreed with the league that this can be included in the contract. It is a contractural agreement between the team owners and players.

Do you sign a contract to work at a company? No you don't, and hence you are protected by labor laws (though even that is not saying much.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 07:14 PM

9. The NFL has a very weak union. Basically no "contracts" in the NFL are worth their value in TP.

If he was good enough to be worth the hassle they'd have kept him. Ray Lewis either stabbed some people or covered up his role in a stabbing, depending on how generous you're feeling, did time, came out and continued a long career.

Neither Ray Rice's case nor this one are in doubt. This asshole admitted it. Ray Rice was videotaped knocking his fiancee out and then dragging her around rather than getting her medical attention. He's a goddamned football player, he knows that head injuries are fucking dangerous!

In short fuck all of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peaches999 (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 10:02 PM

10. Employment under employment contract is subject to the terms of the contract ...

it isn't that unusual for highly paid employees to have clauses in their contract which allow dismissal in the event which may harm the company or brand. Most executives have similar clauses. My guess is it doesn't violate EEO laws because the NFL has an army of lawyers and players likewise would have a financial interest in suing to have the contracted ruled unenforceable if it violated applicable laws.

In the absence of a contract most employees have even less right. In most states (so called "at will" states) an employer can terminate you at any time for any reasons even without providing a state reasons unless the rationale violates a protected class. So it could be "your fired". Period.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread