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tavalon

(27,985 posts)
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:39 PM Nov 2016

Postmortem 2016? Fuck that. How about Postmortem 2008 - 2016? That's when we the liberals screwed up

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by uppityperson (a host of the General Discussion forum).

No, this isn't a President Obama slam fest. Far from it.

Okay, since the election, I have been wide awake and hurting like hell. I've been spending hours curled up in a fetal position and then been angry enough to slam my first through a wall. Pick any other emotion but happy and content and I've been there and I just bet you have too. But, about three days ago, I went Spock and started analyzing, very emotionless. Sure, I started with the blame game - it's the easiest and may I say, the most fun. I got over that really quickly because it's a pointless circular firing squad. We liberals and Democrats and liberal Democrats are so good at that. I wanted to feel that for a while but no more.

I went back to 2008 and I remembered President Obama told us to hold his feet to the fire. I'm not sure he said to give him political cover as that wouldn't have been a great thing to say but that's what he was trying to tell us. And I'm not going to speak for you or for DU, though if it resonates, do the gut check I've been doing (I think it's a really, really important step). President Obama didn't say "Yes I Can", he said, "Yes We Can". I didn't do it or I didn't do it well enough or I didn't have enough support, though by that time DU was famous for being a crack team when it came to holding the Bush administration accountable for their bullshit - we trained ourselves over those eight hellish years. Then, President Obama got there and after the victory, it felt like we/I deserved a break. But we didn't deserve it and President Obama didn't have us holding his feet to our liberal fire nor did he have our political cover. So he broke to the center and bipartisanship, a really safe place for the Jackie Robinson of the White House.

Am I saying he was a bad President? No, considering his base wandered away for this reason or that, he did a stellar job with the massive resistance he got from people who took our mantle of anger and beat the shit out of his Presidency. The opposition were unceasing but we/ I was not. Sure I yelled about Rahm Emmanuel and this and that but eventually, I just started drifting. I noticed that DU started infighting.

It was like when we didn't have a common enemy, we lost focus.

If you don't agree, that's okay, it's just what I perceive. And I started drifting away from here. I definitely stopped fighting. I was here some but not like during the Bush years and my activism got hung up in the closet for the most part. Mostly I noticed that when we didn't have a common enemy, DU didn't seem to know what to do. We weren't the crackpot team anymore. The infighting went way up. Befuddled is a word that comes to mind. It was tiresome and I was tired.

Then the forever primaries started and while I would have liked to come over here and laugh at the clown car that was the Republican primary, I remembered the Democratic blood bath in 2008 and wanted nothing to do with the primary on our side. I knew I was for Bernie and that I would encounter bloody divisiveness here just as I had seen between HRC and Obama sides during 2008. So, I watched on Facebook and all the wonderful spin offs from The Daily Show and TYT became my new lifeline. While I realized quickly after Bernie that I needed to vote for HRC, another four or eight years of Third Wayism wasn't something I was thrilled about and I knew I would get little support here and besides, circular firing squad. Like I said, I've noticed that when DU doesn't have a common enemy we use each other for target practice.

I, along with others on the liberal side knew Donald Trump, AKA, Pussy Grabber didn't have a chance. Nonetheless, I voted for Secretary Clinton and I GOTV, too. I did my part.

And then the election came and we all woke up to "What the Fuck!!!!" You know where I went first? Not Facebook, not my favorite comedians/real journalists. I came here. I came running and of course, as you all know, DU was hacked. While it felt awful at the time, I think the timing really helped bring home the message I needed. So, thank you hackers for making sure I had time to do a really deep gut check instead of being able to blow off steam here. And my personal gut check pulled me all the way back to 2008. I have a lot to atone for and a lot to fight against , for our children and grand children.

So, now I'm awake. So is much of America, even a lot of people who didn't vote are protesting the atrocity that is pResident Pussy Grabber. I don't think anyone deserves what is coming but coming it is and it's probably worse than our imaginings. Our children and our grandchildren need us to fight like their lives depend on it because they do. I am an ablative shield and so are you. Many of us may burn away in the process because this is going to be the greatest fight most of us have ever had to be in.

I fucked up in 2008 and beyond. I didn't hold our President's feet to the fire nor cover his back politically. I think had we done what he asked, he could have been the best President we ever had, but instead he was as good as he could be, given the fight the right constantly gave him. I am to blame. I think a lot of you are too. If you don't think you are, then just assume I'm not talking about you. I think DU as a force also failed, probably for similar reasons. But when we got complacent, the other side stayed furious and way more focused than I would have given them credit for. They had a common enemy. I'm very sorry I didn't fight for President Obama more, but they fought him unceasingly.

Bernie Sanders and Trump, in very different ways, tapped into a vein of anger and populism. We didn't want the status quo anymore. The fact that one was a force for good and one was a demagogue is both important and unimportant. Another post, another day, maybe.

But I have something else. I have the fire back in my belly and I think you do too, readers and DU et al. And here's the thing, we may have let the bike get a little rusty but once you've learned how to ride a bike (the Bush years), it takes little time to relearn and even get better riding that bike. It's going to take work and it's going to take unity but we will face this unfathomably horrific thing together and we will stand together and we will have each others backs and we will fight as if all of our lives depended on it. In fact, they do. We don't have much time to get our shit together and yet I know we will get it back together and we will get it well before the first deadline.

DU has a common purpose again and as much as I can't believe it, the Bush years were like a bike with training wheels. We don't need the training wheels anymore. We were a crackpot team and we will be a better team this time. We have to. We thought Bush/Cheney were the greatest evil America ever faced. So we learned and we rolled up our sleeves. Good thing
because this time, it's likely to be so much worse so we must be even better.

So that's a sketch of my (our) history. Some of us still need to be in the blame space. Some of us are still working through the stages of grief. I know I am, though I'm getting better every day. It's easy to say we should be past the grief by now but we all process differently. We will still be ready soon and we will be stronger than we were during the worst of the Bush years. Because we must. And we are DU. That bears repeating, in bold. We are DU. Once we are back in fighting shape, we will be like the special ops or the rangers of the resistance. We were the best and we will be the best again. Mark my words.

Now, to steal from John Oliver, if you've read this far and I remembered how to embed videos, I would give you otters, lots of them.

So, please go to YouTube and watch some otters frolic. Then get back here and let's get cracking. We have a lot of work to do.

If anyone gets offended by my post, I apologize ahead of time. I described what I did and what I saw. YMMV.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Postmortem 2016? Fuck that. How about Postmortem 2008 - 2016? That's when we the liberals screwed up (Original Post) tavalon Nov 2016 OP
Not this again duffyduff Nov 2016 #1
Which part of the media is most to blame? flamingdem Nov 2016 #2
Jeff Zucker, president of CNN duffyduff Nov 2016 #4
Wow, that is one powerful dude tavalon Nov 2016 #7
Thanks, I didn't know about the Zucker connection flamingdem Nov 2016 #8
I was keeping with my theme, best as I could tavalon Nov 2016 #5
1000 bigtree Nov 2016 #10
Well said, Madam!! LongTomH Nov 2016 #3
Thank you tavalon Nov 2016 #6
NO. Obama's approval ratings are higher even than Reagan's at this point in his Presidency. pnwmom Nov 2016 #9
The Black Swan election of 2016 was a loss of a thousand cuts... Hugin Nov 2016 #11
Host consensus is this is better suited for GDPM so I am locking this. Please repost in GDPM uppityperson Nov 2016 #12
 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
1. Not this again
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:45 PM
Nov 2016

Despite your long post, you don't have a clue what happened.

Trump is the direct result of media malfeasance. He had no real candidacy, no policy proposals because he was NOT a serious candidate for president. He was a MANUFACTURED CANDIDATE just like Lonesome Rhodes was a manufactured celebrity in the film A Face in the Crowd.

You are blaming Democrats, the same old Michael Moore bullshit that says we have to reach out to those poor beleaguered white dudes who keep voting wrong in election after election EVER SINCE REAGAN.

They can't be fixed. They are willfully stupid.

Please get a clue.

The media fucked up. We didn't.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
2. Which part of the media is most to blame?
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:52 PM
Nov 2016

Serious question.

Isn't it more about right wing media? Did the Trump voters watch anything other than Fox?

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
4. Jeff Zucker, president of CNN
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:58 PM
Nov 2016

He created Donald Trump for ratings and ad revenue because he was and is a longstanding friend of Trump's going back to when Zucker was president of NBC Entertainment and Donald Trump had his hit show The Apprentice. The conflict of interest was little known in the primaries.

This is a fact. There are numerous articles that have been written during and after the campaign talking about the unseemly conflict of interest and the total breakdown in journalistic standards.

Zucker, who I feel committed treason against the United States, believes news organizations are not in the business of providing information to the public or have a civic responsibility to the public; he believes they should be entertainment organizations out to provide the biggest ratings and the largest ad revenue.

Zucker created Trump the candidate by providing free, unlimited coverage during the primaries without any critical examination of his non-existent policies for ratings and ad revenue. Trump started out as an unserious candidate launching a longshot bid that never would have made it past the Iowa caucuses against far more seasoned rivals but for CNN. Fox and the rest of the outlets followed when they couldn't compete for those ratings and ad revenue.

The blame rests solely on Zucker. He belongs in prison.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/jeff-zuckers-singular-role-in-promoting-donald-trumps-rise/2016/10/02/7c3d4366-865b-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html


tavalon

(27,985 posts)
7. Wow, that is one powerful dude
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:35 PM
Nov 2016

With all the complex reasons rolling through my head, I'm surprised you were able to find a single donkey to pin the tail on.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
8. Thanks, I didn't know about the Zucker connection
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:43 PM
Nov 2016

and it makes sense though I thought NBC was also hawking Trump. Even on MSNBC they focused on him so much that it was a form of free publicity.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
5. I was keeping with my theme, best as I could
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:26 PM
Nov 2016

On three hours of sleep. Of course the media is part of the problem, hugely. Just because they share the blame, there's plenty to go around.

If I wrote everything that I believe happened in one post, well that would be a book. I'm sure someone is writing that book right now.

Besides, you missed the point of my post and me posting a more detailed post would have guaranteed that everyone would miss my point

You're not wrong and I don't believe I am wrong. We can and are both right, except hopefully I did it less accusing than you did.

I can play rough and tumble and I know every brutal nuance of this massive shit storm. You missed at least 10 things that contributed to this debacle when you wrote your post. But, I understand trying to keep it to one's point.

Your message telling me I'm completely misguided would have been lost if you did a full analysis of what I didn't put in my post.

But, if you believe that the media gets 100% of the blame, then I would encourage you to open your mind to the bigger picture.

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
10. 1000
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:53 PM
Nov 2016

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
3. Well said, Madam!!
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:52 PM
Nov 2016

I think I understand much of what you're trying to say, and I agree.

The reasons for our loss are complex and we need to consider them dispassionately, not strike out at each other.

Oh yes! Here are your otters!

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
6. Thank you
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:27 PM
Nov 2016

It's been awhile but I'll remember the nuances of embedding.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
9. NO. Obama's approval ratings are higher even than Reagan's at this point in his Presidency.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:52 PM
Nov 2016

And his base didn't wander away. They were purged away, and Voter I.D.'ed away, and had their polling places eliminated, and their early voting days slashed. All that took pace since Obama's re-election in 2012.

Hillary didn't lose because Obama screwed up, and the election wasn't about economics.

It was about voter suppression and about HATE and returning white male privilege to those who are losing it.

Hugin

(33,120 posts)
11. The Black Swan election of 2016 was a loss of a thousand cuts...
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 04:12 PM
Nov 2016

Each individually was insignificant and I'd list them here, but, I don't have all day to make lists... I'll leave that to the masters of the Facebook pulp mills.

However, two stand out to me:

1) Comey! His Hatch Act defying move was extremely damaging. (What's happening on this, anyone know? )

2) The Russian influence on the election. Also, supposedly being investigated by the FBI. No conflict-of-interest there, baby. A hint for the keystone-kops at the FBI (If you're even ever going to give it two seconds of thought) A good starting point for an investigation would be to check out who had very large bets placed for Trumpty-Dumpty to win. Putin had every reason in the world and everything to gain from backing the most disruptive candidate he could find.


The reality of what is happening is there is soon to be a group of people in positions of power who shouldn't be trusted with anything sharper than a pair of blunt-end Play School scissors.

Anyway, how I feel is best summarized in this previous post on the DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2611405

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
12. Host consensus is this is better suited for GDPM so I am locking this. Please repost in GDPM
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 11:30 PM
Nov 2016

GD's SOP says

Statement of Purpose

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. For more information, click here.


GDPM's is
A forum to discuss why we lost in 2016 and what we need to do in the future.


Skinner's post in Announcements says this so I am locking per that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=7749
Obviously the election -- from president on down the ticket -- did not go how we all hoped it would. In the wake of our defeat, Democrats across the country are taking part in a much-needed conversation about what went wrong in 2016 and what we need to do in the future. Democratic Underground intends to participate in this discussion, by providing a platform to our members who are capable of participating in a manner that is inclusive, civil, and constructive.

The old “General Discussion: 2016” forum has been re-named “2016 Postmortem” and will serve as the temporary location where this conversation can take place. Discussions about the 2016 elections will not be permitted in the General Discussion forum. Whenever a member tries to start a new thread in either the General Discussion forum or the 2016 Postmortem forum, they will be presented with an interrupt page directing them to post their topic in the appropriate place.
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