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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 08:24 AM Dec 2016

There is so much that the US and Trump could learn from the Roman Empire:

1. Trump has overlooked that the formula is "bread and circus", not just "circus".

That's how the roman politicians kept the rabble happy: "panem et circenses"
- Keep them well-fed.
- Distract them with spectacles.

Trump surely has the spectacle aspect down. People are talking so much about him, that they don't talk about politics. And Trump just launched his victory-tour for more circus and he wants to do even more circus-tours while he's President.

That's nice and all, but the other half of the formula is "bread". Spectacle alone will only get you this far. The people will eventually demand to be fed, be it entitlements, well-paying jobs, affordable healthcare, safe drinking-water...



2. It's roads that make an empire.

For Trump, investment in infrastructure was just an empty campaign talking-point. Now it's an excuse to give tax-credits to rich guys.

But roads, bridges, trains, the Internet... they are what keeps a country going.



3. The Roman Empire fell because they ran out of tax-revenue because tax-evasion by the upper class destroyed the middle-class.

Why was Rome busy conquering and pillaging other countries? Because they needed that money to keep their government going.

Why didn't they just collect that money via taxes? Because tax-evasion had become the new sport of the upper class. Their favorite hobby.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ej-fagan/tax-holidays_b_1737301.html
In the Late Empire, much of the Roman economy was controlled by a small number of large estate owners. A significant portion of the agricultural output of the empire came from these estates. Eventually, this would begin to establish the European feudal system of serfs and landlords. However, most of the Roman population was still free, and a mostly-urban middle class did exist. Rome had a well-developed tax system, and sought to tax each of the rich, middle class and poor. And, like an increasing share of the major multinational corporates in the United States and is often the case throughout history, the rich class found a way to escape taxation.

Roman tax collectors went out to these large estates in the Roman provincial countryside and assessed the taxes owed by landholders. Debts to the Roman treasury were recorded, and bills were sent out. Through a combination of impotent tax collectors and pervasive bribery, the owners of the large estates were able to delay paying taxes. They would lobby the ruling imperial administration to periodically cancel their debts to the state. Large-scale forgiveness began with Emperor Hadrian, and initially only came infrequently. However, each successive remission led to more tax deferral and evasion. Tax remissions became common for emperors or governors to issue a general tax remission for the senatorial class of entire provinces, especially when political trouble required support from the upper class. Eventually, the imperial administration simply stopped trying to tax large estates. [1] [2]

Of course, Rome still needed tax revenue. They were fighting never-ending wars with powerful barbarians on all fronts, and the costs of running the Roman state were not shrinking. When the imperial administration was increasingly unable to extract tax revenue from the largest estates, they raised taxes on the poor and middle class. [3]

The taxes became so burdensome that the Roman middle class all but disappeared, and many indebted citizens who were not wealthy enough to bribe tax collectors instead were forced to flee. They ran away to find refuge in the large, de-facto tax exempt, estates run by the very people whose tax avoidance caused their over-burdensome taxes. This created a system of indentured servitude that lasted for over a thousand years, and contributed to the fall of the Western Roman Empire. [4]


Eventually, the Roman Empire ran out of countries it could reasonably conquer:
- The scottish tribes were too tough to fight and too poor to plunder. (Rome built Hadrian's Wall to keep them away from roman territory.)
- Fighting the german tribes in the thick, neverending german forests was Rome's version of the Vietnam-War. (Rome built the Limes to keep the free german tribes away from roman territory.)
- And the kingdoms of the Middle-East were so powerful, any war against them would have been too expensive.

Rome eventually ran out of money: They ran out of taxpayers, and they lost valuable provinces to foreign invaders (because their military was under-funded and over-extended), losing more and more tax-revenue. A downward-spiral began, only dampened by the power of Rome's german allies. When Rome had reached the point where it no longer had practical political power, the german allies launched a putsch and took over the remaining administrative powers of the Roman Empire and that was it.
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There is so much that the US and Trump could learn from the Roman Empire: (Original Post) DetlefK Dec 2016 OP
Fascinating. whathehell Dec 2016 #1
Thanks for the history recap steventh Dec 2016 #2

steventh

(2,143 posts)
2. Thanks for the history recap
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 08:57 AM
Dec 2016

I fear this is where we're headed. It motivates me to do what I can to slow down the process and if we're lucky, bring it to a grinding halt.

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