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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichigan Election Board DENIES Trump Effort to Block Recount
Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2016, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)
ShesOurPresident ?@MrJamesonNeat 13m13 minutes agoHand Recount in Michigan!
MI denied Trump's effort to block the recount & their SOS request for machine count.
Response to bigtree (Original post)
pnwmom This message was self-deleted by its author.
Here's to hoping they let it proceed.
bigtree
(85,971 posts)...maybe this time, but it could be a republican seeking one the next.
besides, I'd think the 'electoral college delay' argument was answered by the State Board of Canvassers in moving forward with the count. I don't think the judges would be eager to substitute their judgment for that of the election board, but you never know these days.
Response to bigtree (Reply #5)
pnwmom This message was self-deleted by its author.
Farmgirl1961
(1,493 posts)Is this old news?
bigtree
(85,971 posts)...The complaint to the court is the exact claim that was just rejected by the State board.
I don't think they have a better case with the court than they did with the State Canvassers, as to whether the count can be completed in time for the Electoral college. I just don't see a serious argument, but I'm not an expert.
pnwmom
(108,953 posts)then this could be in trouble.
This board was evenly divided and split along party lines.
bigtree
(85,971 posts)...courts normally don't jump ahead of state election decisions unless there's some clear evidence of harm.
In this case, the state appears to have confidence they can handle the recount in time. I seriously doubt the courts want to set a precedent and halt a recount, even if it benefits their party of choice, because recount efforts don't just originate from Democrats.
However, I don't really know shit because I thought Hillary would be elected president by now.
pnwmom
(108,953 posts)Farmgirl1961
(1,493 posts)jimlup
(7,968 posts)ignore legal decorum and vote in from partisanship.
bigtree
(85,971 posts)...it wouldn't be in the interest of republicans to hamstring future recounts in the state by possibly setting a restrictive precedent which might impact a republican candidate looking for votes.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Republicans also know that each stunt is another half million in donations to fund opposition lawyers.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)I guess the recount goes forward.
I honestly believe that there is a chance Hillary will prevail in Michigan. Small errors in Trumps favor wouldn't be a big surprise in MI's red precincts. Republicans are not fair and will always err to their side but retain plausible denial. It is fairly obvious when placed under scrutiny.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)turbinetree
(24,683 posts)spanone
(135,778 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)TuslaUltra
(75 posts)annielion
(15 posts)Since we vote on privately owned computers with secret programming, we have no idea how the voting machines counted the votes. It is easy to program a voting machines in such a way that your chosen candidate wins. I'm sure this is why Wisconsin and Michigan don't want the ballots to be hand counted.
bigtree
(85,971 posts)...it would be good to get human eyes on those.
renate
(13,776 posts)... and welcome to DU!
AceIsThePlace
(4 posts)Im from Michigan and I attended the Board of State Canvassers meeting today; getting up at 05:30 to get to the 09:30 meeting in Lansing. There were about four dozen people in attendance of which about half were news people. There were nine television cameras. Trumps team had two lawyers present and one for Stein. The meeting started a bit late and was promptly adjourned for an hour. It was punctuated by several breaks called by the Board and ran to well after lunch.
Some background. As I understand it, Michigan law states that any candidate who is on the ballot can file for a recount as long as they do so in a timely manner and pay the appropriate fee. As long as they meet those three criteria the recount is granted. The Michigan vote was certified on Monday of this week, Steins petition was filed on Wednesday, and the Trump campaign immediately objected. Understand that the recount was already approved and the meeting today (Friday) was to hear the objections to it.
Trumps lawyers spoke first and presented a grocery list of objections. Stein was not an aggrieved candidate, she would have no chance of winning in a recount, the recount would be costly, the recount would be time consuming, it would not be finished before the Electoral College vote, there have been no alleged instances of voter fraud in Michigan, and if there was a recount it had to be machine, not hand.
Steins lawyer spoke next and said that everything the Board had just heard meant nothing. Stein had followed the exact verbiage of Michigan law in requesting the recount and that nothing else mattered.
Representatives of several Michigan county clerk offices spoke in favor of the recount. They said there were eager to do the recount to show that their results were accurate. Trumps continual claims of voter fraud during the campaign and his most recent comment of millions of illegal votes were mentioned several times. The county clerks wanted to demonstrate that there was no voter fraud. They also said that a manual recount is far easier and far faster than a machine recount, as Michigan uses scanners in most precincts.
Many Michigan voters fill out their ballot using a pen to blacken a spot next to the candidate they wish to vote for. The ballot is then fed into a scanner which tabulates it. To do a machine recount, the scanners would have to be setup again, calibrated, tested, and each ballot fed in again by hand. The clerks said it would be much simpler and faster to just look at the ballot and mark the results.
Some members of the public also spoke to say that citizens deserved a fair and honest vote tally that could be trusted, and why should there be an objection to that?
Then it came time for the board discussion and questions. The Democratic members of the board didnt have much to say, but the Republican members peppered Steins lawyer with questions. One lady member in particular didnt seem to get the idea that the granting of the recount is pretty much automatic and cant really be objected to. The Boards staff tried to explain this, and also said that all recounts in the history of the board have been manual where possible. The staff also said that they felt the recount could be finished in a timely manner.
The Republican members then made several motions, the most important of which was to approve the objections and stop the recount. And heres why this meeting was pretty much an exercise in futility for Trump. The Board of State Canvassers consists of four members, two Republicans and two Democrats. Remember, that the original petition to recount was granted automatically, but the objections required a vote of the Board. The vote on each of the petitions was 2-2. A tie vote meant that the motion failed.
So each motion was voted on and failed, and as of today at 13:45 the manual recount in Michigan is approved to take place.
However
the Republican Attorney General of Michigan filed a motion with the State Supreme Court at the same time the Board hearing was taking place to stop the recount. So, that will be the next chapter in this saga.
MADem
(135,425 posts)on the proceedings! I love the way they hoisted Trump on his own blabbermouthy petard!
Are you a reporter, a party functionary, or simply an engaged citizen?
Anyway, great first post!
Thank you, much appreciated. It may take me awhile to get to 133,000 posts(!).
I am a semi-retired engaged citizen. I work when I want to, which gives me time to go on field trips like this.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)bigtree
(85,971 posts)...what do you think of the recount opponents' chances in court?
AceIsThePlace
(4 posts)If Stein's lawyer was indeed correct, that Stein had followed the exact letter of the law in requesting a recount, then I don't see that the Court would intervene. The Republican Attorney General not liking the idea of a recount or thinking it's too expensive do not constitute valid legal objections.
Besides, someday the Republicans might want a recount and it sets a dangerous precedent to interfere with them.
bigtree
(85,971 posts)...thanks showing up and providing us with your unique perspective!
Farmgirl1961
(1,493 posts)Please keep us posted with any new information.
renate
(13,776 posts)I was pretty excited till that last sentence but the level of detail in your report is fantastic.
Thanks so so much, and welcome to DU!
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,661 posts)Great report thank you for the time and energy you put in.
AceIsThePlace
(4 posts)Thanks. I love Michigan. I live and work near Lake Michigan. It's very scenic and the Big Lake moderates temperature extremes so the climate is usually temperate.
Your signature quote, Iain Banks and the Culture books?
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,661 posts)Winter is coming! It may be a warning to some but it marks great fun here. Kayaking in the winter is awesome.
Yes, the quote is from the great late Iain Banks. It is the name of an AI ship from "Matter" I do believe. It just seemed to fit my beliefs and personality.
Generator
(7,770 posts)Mr. Big Putin guy had told orangehitler to focus on Michigan at the last minute. So smells like old fish to me.
UTUSN
(70,640 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)MichMan
(11,864 posts)My only issue is why Stein will only be paying 25% off the estimated cost of the recount with the individual counties being responsible for the remainder.
If after this is over she walks away with a few extra million in her pocket, there are going to be a lot of people in Michigan very angry when our counties have to make cuts to pay for it.
enid602
(8,591 posts)Just think how much more the good citizens of MI will lose if Il Douche 'phases out' Medicare in early Spring, as he announced the day before yesterday on television.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)I know our local hospitals depend on it for over 50 pct of their revenue.
That's a LOT of jobs.
lark
(23,059 posts)Good - count going forward based on their own evidence of funny #;s
Bad - recount by machine.
Cha
(296,770 posts)ailsagirl
(22,883 posts)How's it going, Cha?
Cha
(296,770 posts)I'm hangin' on.. how are you, ailsagirl?!
I don't have any illusions about that clod-- it won't "somehow turn out alright" because, as far as I can tell, he contaminates everything he touches
PS I love your "OBAMA is My President Until Further Notice"
Amen-- that's how I feel
Cha
(296,770 posts)ailsagirl
(22,883 posts)Most of the country is very unhappy
Cha
(296,770 posts)before the real storm.
Waiting for the Boom.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)At least with the hand recount we have a recount.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)MichMan
(11,864 posts)I know we are all hoping Hillary could win, but if she doesn't find 10K votes to change the outcome, you are hoping the entire state gets their votes thrown out ? Wow