Yes. They are Deplorable.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Trump supporters are Deplorable. If you don't believe they are Deplorable then I am deplorable for falsely accusing them of being so. There was a young Mexican American woman whose parents brought her here from Mexico when she was seven years old. This is the only land and culture she knows. She studied hard and became an engineer. In Trumpica she is at risk of deportation.


At a CNN forum hosted by Van Jones former United States Senator Rick Santorum, a prominent Deplorable leader, told the young woman she had to leave the country.

How is a seven year old girl responsible for the decisions of her parents? If her parents left her in the back seat of the getaway car while they robbed a bank should be put in the hoosegow too if they were caught?


These . People. Are. Deplorable.


BTW, that clown Rick Santorum implied the United States is the only nation one can learn how to be an engineer. SMH.

[NRQ891]

1. 'you're deplorable, but you can redeem yourself by voting for us' great message for 2020

ever wonder why you never saw a commercial 'you're a complete degenerate for drinking diet coke, but you can get our forgiveness if you buy diet pepsi'?

this party needs substance, and a little Don Draper wouldn't hurt either

the party is accountable to the voter, not the other way around. anyone who doesn't get that won't get, and doesn't deserve, a vote

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I don't see a nexus

I don't see a nexus between choosing one brand of soda over another and countenancing the deportation of a engineer whose parents brought her here from Mexico when she was seven years old. Since we are citing fictional cable characters like Don Draper I don't even think Tony Soprano would have been that cold hearted.

I would rather lose than appeal to these Deplorables.

[NRQ891]

3. you really don't get what I said, at all

instead, you just knocked down a straw man

these people believe, and they're more right than wrong, that they've been sold out by the party on trade deals.

anyone is free to say 'oh, it's not that, that's just an excuse. the real reason is that they're racist'. Anyone is free to say that. Anyone is free to be wrong, and lose, if that's what they really want

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I get it. That's your problem.

"...the party is accountable to the voter, not the other way around. anyone who doesn't get that won't get, and doesn't deserve, a vote ...''

-NRQ891

I don't want to be "accountable" to the Deplorables. In NAZI Germany being "accountable" to the Deplorables meant approving of throwing Jews into ovens. I wouldn't have wanted to be "accountable" to them either.

[NRQ891]

6. Godwin's Law invoked

you lose

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. This is fun.

Godwin's Law invoked

you lose

-NQR891

The author of the law has said its invocation is appropriate when it is warranted:


In December 2015, Godwin commented on the Nazi and fascist comparisons being made by several articles on Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, saying that:

"If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.70ba68f9be5e

"you lose."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Can we role play where you are a member of the SS and I am a Jewish resister in the Warsaw Ghetto?

On a serious note if you believe there aren't parallels between Trumpism and incipient fascism there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I must have struck a nerve

go outside and play - the other kids are starting to talk

The SS reference offend you? Maybe you can play Ralph Fiennes' character in Schindler's List where he played the commodant of the Kraków-Płaszów concentration camp and I can play Embeth Jean Davitz's character, his Jewish love interest.

Not that it's here or there but David Duke called Schindler's List "pure Hollywood schmaltz". What do you think?

Or maybe we can discuss how a man who speaks of robbed glory, demonizes religious groups and races, wants to quell dissent, and arrogate all the powers of government to himself does/does not represent incipient fascism.

[NRQ891]

13. yes, a very bored one nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. The more gentlemanly thing to do is wave the white flag of surrender and move on.

But since you opened our tête-à-tête talking about redemption here's your chance to redeem yourself.


You can agree with the proposition that a man who speaks of robbed glory, demonizes religious groups and races, wants to quell dissent, and arrogate all the powers of government to himself does represent incipient fascism.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. As I said there are more gentlemanly ways of surrender.

BTW, thank you for keep bumping my thread.

A light needs to be put on Rick Santorum's callousness.

[Maru Kitteh]

17. Looks like someone is a widdle angwy for rightly being tagged

as a deplorable because perhaps their actions helped elect Hair Twitler? Just a guess.

[NRaleighLiberal]

18. "They" are unreachable. And, yes, largely deplorable.

[hueymahl]

24. Hell yeah. One of the best responses to this crazy line of reasoning I have seen!

Blaming the voter is craziness.

Adjusting our message to reach the voter while staying true to our principles. What part of this concept is so hard to understand?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. How do you adjust your message

How do you adjust your message to appeal to homophobes, xenophobes, racists, anti-semites, and misogynists?

Do you pursue xenophobia. racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, and misogyny in moderation?

How about we tell Americans in need we want to improve their station in life without throwing Mexicans, Jews, blacks, women, and glbtq citizens under the bus?

[hueymahl]

37. Great question

How as a nation did we escape slavery? (it took a war)

How as a nation did we escape Jim Crow? (it took brave politicians fighting over decades)

How do we make progress on every other aspect of social justice? (consistently fighting in the courts, the legislature and the court of public opinion)

What do all of these things have in common? None happened until we had sufficiently changed public opinion to allow the election of the leaders to help effect the change.

How does this apply to the current day? At one point, the basket of deplorables was MUCH larger, a vast majority of us. People's minds can be changed, their morality can evolve (see gay marriage for a very recent example). Writing our current basket of deplorables off forever and not attempting to change their minds by whatever means necessary is a recipe for losing.

The original poster to this sub-thread apparently went off the rails at some point based on the number of hides above. But, in my opinion, his original point is valid. We need a little more Don Draper. We need to figure out what motivates them and how to persuade them.

It makes us feel nice and superior to just pigeon hole them as "pure" racists, xenophobes, bigots, idiots and evil. Sure, they currently display aspects of that. And among the Trump voters, there surely are some people that cannot be reached. But most people are a LOT more complicated, and refusing to acknowledge that and use it to our advantage is foolhardy. And a recipe for continued loss.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. It's not as if we got our clocks cleaned...

We won the pop vote by nearly 3,000,000 votes and lost the Electoral College by 80,000 votes

If you look at it like we were a professional basketball team that lost the seventh game of the Finals by five points we only need to make some adjustments and try to come back stronger next year. We weren't a team that went 20-62.

What makes this "loss" so hard to take is the consequences of losing dwarf the size of the "defeat".


As to my original post a person has to have a heart of stone to deport a young woman who is an engineer involved in STEM research because her parents brought her here from Mexico when she was seven years old.

I was channel surfing when I heard Rick Santorum say that. I was blown away and that malignant unctuous clown holds himself out as a Christian.

[hueymahl]

40. I am stunned by the callousness of the Republican leaders

I should not be, but I am, over and over and over again.

It is almost like we are two different species.

[SlimJimmy]

48. Apparently Nancy Pelosi hasn't figured that one out yet.

That's why I was in favor of new leadership. The same old same old is just going to mean more losses for us. Aren't you tired of losing? I sure am.

[Eleanors38]

51. If we could only deport tens of millions of "deplorables," we could win without saying anything!

Since when does a political party in a democracy have to go out and appeal to tens of millions fellow citizens? That is so-o-o-o yesterday!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. Do we deport the secular progressives or the traditionalists?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8339541


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8339576


"

...



"



P.S. BTW, I saw your boy Bill O'Reilly on ESPN last night. He was at the Garden watching the Knicks play the Cavaliers. LeBron James and approximately half the team stayed elsewhere. Do you think he's a traditionalist or secular progressive?



'

[Eleanors38]

82. Again, sarcasm and irony are dead in DU...

So you will understand:

1). The Party needs to move much more to liberal/progressive stances with meat-on-the-bone proposals and appeals.

2). The Party needs to apeal to those who rejected us; that is a function of parties.

3). No one here is favoring the deporation of anyone.

4). I don't give a ripe fart for O'Reilly's latest all-about-book.

Further, I stand by what I said re: Culture warfare HERE, as illustrated by your post #80.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

83. Res ipsa loquitur

Eleanors38 (17,962 posts)
54. Political parties reach out; culture warriors at this site do culture war, so they can't lead

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8339541

[Eleanors38]

91. Well OK, I guess. NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. How many times a week do you watch the Factor?

[Eleanors38]

95. Begs the question.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. "Begs the question" how your are so familiar with Bill O'Reilly's oeuvre.

[Eleanors38]

97. Like experts on the NRA here. Don't read their shit either. Any more questions?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. Wayne LaPierre or Bill O'Reilly?

[Eleanors38]

111. Hey, you're the one who studies and keeps up with them. I prefer Eleanor.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

112. Charlton Heston or George Clooney?

[Laffy Kat]

76. Please give an example of this "substance" you speak of.

The Don Draper character is a white, upper-middle class, misogynistic bigot. If that is the party we must become count me out. I'll live happily as a loser.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. They're also shitheads, IMO.

[11 Bravo]

11. "Deplorable", "shitheads"; and those are their GOOD qualities!

[astral]

19. You are talking about current or future Immigration law?

What is the correct way to apply the law? Does the law need to be changed, or ignored? Ignored on a case-by-case basis?

This is what I could never understand about the whole illegal immigration thing, is the apparent idea that we don't need borders at all, or that anyone who makes it across the border illegally gets a Home Free Pass?

Does a person have to become a Republican to say international border security is something to uphold?

It is not even a matter to me whether the persons are terrorists or not, yet that is an obvious concern to our nation. It is kind of like saying any hungry person who knocks on your door must be invited to the dinner table, which would be the 'right' thing to do, right? It's a fuzzy line, isn't it? Our border has become that same kind of fuzzy line, and everybody who comes here has a preemptive right to be taken care of, regardless of the people who came here legally, or the people who were born here who are homeless /destitute, or both.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Mercy is part and parcel of justice.

There is nothing just or merciful about deporting a young woman who embodies everything that is good about our nation because her parents brought her here, obviously without anything that resembles informed consent, when she was seven years old.

A sensible immigration policy would include border security, a plan for legalization for those already here depending on how long they have been here, and if they are a contributing and law and abiding member of society.

It's a right wing construct to say everybody who favors a path to citizenship for undocumented workers who meet certain criteria is in favor of "letting everybody in".

[hamsterjill]

22. +1

Amazingly well said. Thank you!

[uponit7771]

25. Amen

[Dems to Win]

32. I'm afraid a lot of people did vote Republican as a demand for border security

Illegal immigration drives down wages for the entire working class. People are angry about it, and have been for a long time.

The DC Establishment, Democrats and Republicans alike, have allowed the situation to go on for decades. Every Dreamer represents a failure of the government to enforce the immigration laws against a family for 10, 15, 20 years.

California passed Prop 187 in 1994, a primal scream against illegal immigration. I truly believe if the government had responded and gotten control of the immigration system and today we didn't have undocumented workers among us, we wouldn't have a president-elect Trump. Just MHO.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. FIXED

"California REPUBLICANS passed Prop 187 in 1994, a primal scream against illegal immigration."


And that is why they are locked out at every level of power in my state of California. California has a Democratic governor, two Democratic senators, a Democratic congressional delegation, and a supermajority in the state legislature. We like our diversity and love one another regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or nationality.


We would leave this union and the Deplorables behind in a New York minute if we could. The Deplorables would never let us go because of our ports, our high tech, our lush farm land, our cultural centers, and we are the sixth largest economy in the world.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. I love my home in Montana but

damn if you don't make me want to think about moving, DSB. Maybe I will think about forgoing Canada for a bit, try a stopover in a different CA first.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. It would be insane to have open borders but I can't believe posters on this site are deomonizing ...

It would be insane to have open borders but I can't believe posters on this site are demonizing , albeit implicitly, undocumented workers. The lion's share of them are gainfully employed and many of them, for whatever reason, take the jobs native Americans will not do, for whatever reason.



California is a minority majority state and we get along just fine.

[Dems to Win]

67. I'm not demonizing undoc workers, I'm blaming the fed govt for failing to vigorously enforce labor

and immigration laws. I really believe we wouldn't be in this situation today if they had.

Canada vigorously enforces their immigration laws -- I've known people who go there and try to work under the table, and it lasts for about a month. It's a reasonable request for people to make of their government.

When Democrats object to enforcing immigration laws and deporting those here without authorization, many voters hear that Democrats want them to continue working for very low wages in unfair competition with unscrupulous employers who exploit undocumented immigrants.

We can support legalizing Dreamers, but also acknowledge that our current system really does hurt real people, and it's imperative it be fixed urgently. And Dreamers aren't the only people requiring justice in this unfair system -- American citizens and legal residents, workers and employers, are placed in unfair competition with cruel shady employers exploiting desperate undocumented immigrants. Politicians should talk about the needs of the legal workers and small business owners trying to do the right thing, not just the needs of the undocumented immigrants, anytime they talk about this issue. IMHO.

America welcomes millions of legal immigrants. I'm a Californian, I get along with immigrants, I couldn't live here if I didn't. If we want our country to maintain the consensus that we will continue welcoming immigrants, we have to have a system that really works, that doesn't leave some American voters burning with anger at the unfairness of what they see with their own eyes.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/rust-belt-democrats-saw-trump-wave-coming

These Rust Belt Democrats Saw the Trump Wave Coming
And they tried to warn the Clinton campaign.

Like Betras, Taylor doesn't believe his peers and neighbors who supported Trump are racist. But he understands how Trump's talk about immigration appealed to people in the Rust Belt. A few years ago, his union was working on a billion-dollar natural gas processing plant, and the workers noticed that the bulk of the work was being done by Spanish-speaking laborers who arrived each morning on buses. "It brought a lot of resentment to the area because they'd never seen it before," Taylor says. "People see that and then they go tell everybody else, and social media, the way it is, it just runs wild." He believes Trump benefited when the community saw immigrants "taking jobs that Americans think they should be doing."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. Enforce the borders and provide a path to citizenship for law abiding and gainfully employed...

Enforce the borders and provide a path to citizenship for law abiding and gainfully employed undocumented workers and their families.

I would like to see how much economic dislocation is really caused by undocumented workers given the fact many undocumented workers do the jobs Americans will not do , for whatever reason.

[Dems to Win]

53. Prop 187 passed 59 to 41

Couldn't have happened without lots of votes from independents and Democrats.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. It was Pete Wilson's baby.

We proudly celebrate our diversity by consigning Republicans to minority status at every level of government. And we certainly don't demonize those here without documents.

[Dems to Win]

74. And Pete Wilson's bastard son is now president elect Trump, riding the same sentiment as prop 187

I'm bitter that the federal government did not respond to clear voter sentiment in 1994 and act vigorously to solve the problem, and thus we've arrived at this point.

As California goes, so goes the nation. Perhaps this is the last gasp of the Republicans, and we shall see a Democratic wave take over nationwide as backlash, as we saw in California after 187.

If we survive.

[Humanist_Activist]

100. You do realize we have the lower levels of illegal immigration now than we did in 1994, right?

The current policies were working, what Trump did, and what you are doing, is propping up a myth that illegal immigration is at historically record high levels, when this couldn't be further from the truth.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/mar/17/barack-obama/barack-obama-austin-says-illegal-immigration-40-ye/

[Dems to Win]

104. 10 million undocumented immigrants in the US today

Many people feel it hurts their wages and job opportunities, and it won votes for Trump. Because Democrats can't even listen to their concerns, because they are too busy calling people racist xenophobes.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/rust-belt-democrats-saw-trump-wave-coming

These Rust Belt Democrats Saw the Trump Wave Coming
And they tried to warn the Clinton campaign.

Like Betras, Taylor doesn't believe his peers and neighbors who supported Trump are racist. But he understands how Trump's talk about immigration appealed to people in the Rust Belt. A few years ago, his union was working on a billion-dollar natural gas processing plant, and the workers noticed that the bulk of the work was being done by Spanish-speaking laborers who arrived each morning on buses. "It brought a lot of resentment to the area because they'd never seen it before," Taylor says. "People see that and then they go tell everybody else, and social media, the way it is, it just runs wild." He believes Trump benefited when the community saw immigrants "taking jobs that Americans think they should be doing."

[Humanist_Activist]

105. The fact of the matter is that, in most cases, it wasn't illegal immigrants that took their jobs...

lowered their wages, it was bipartisan free trade agreements changing focus of the economy and now automation that are doing that.

Hillary's great sin is telling these people the truth that a lot of these jobs are gone, and gone forever, they didn't want to hear the truth, they want their coal and steel jobs back, even though if and when factories do come back they will only hire a fraction of the people that used to work in similar factories/plants as before, with far fewer worker protections on top of that.

[Dems to Win]

106. The fact of the matter is, people see busloads of Spanish-speaking workers

arriving at work sites, and wish their own adult children could be doing that work, and get angry.

The fact of the matter is, slaughterhouses used to be a place where an American working class man could make a living wage. Now they are Spanish-speaking work sites paying poverty wages. People see this with their own eyes, in rural communities across America, and are called vicious names if they object. It pushes people into voting for a demagogue like Trump.

In my view, Democrats have to be willing to listen to both sides on the volatile issue of immigration if we are going to grow our base nationwide, so we can beat a reality TV clown by 20 points, as we should have.

[Humanist_Activist]

108. What do you expect them to do? The Democrats talk about penalizing employers...

who employ undocumented people, and the Republicans have a tendency to shoot such ideas down or make such regulations toothless. On top of that, enforcement of immigration is up, not down, under Obama, more people have been deported than under Bush before him.

I also don't really understand your emphasis on "spanish-speaking" people working these work sites. Are they possibly undocumented, I guess so, but that's not the only option. Hell my boss is a "spanish-speaker" as well, a Colombian immigrant, is she taking a job from a more deserving American?

[Dems to Win]

109. Enforcement is 'up,' but not near the order of magnitude to SOLVE the problem

Why is it an unrealistic goal that 100% of the people within our borders be documented? America is just the Can't Do It Country, it's beyond us?

Obama deported 400,000 people per year. It would take 25 years at that rate to deport 10 million people. The undocumented man who shot a woman on the San Francisco pier had been deported 5 times, so who knows how many net people have actually been sent home.

My brothers are working class. One worked for years at a laundry plant, a genuine sweatshop, as a Spanish-speaking supervisor. When a new employee was needed, management sent word down to Mexico, and a new worker would arrive, fake ID in hand. This stuff is going on today. There are ads in Mexican newspapers today offering jobs to anyone who can get across the border and show up in Iowa or where ever.

Another brother knows someone supplying an old hotel crammed full of Mexican workers bused each day to construction sites.

Most legal immigrants speak English in addition to their native language, they are scattered out among the workforce. When an entire work site is Spanish-speaking, they are almost certainly relying on recently arrived people, and the US system doesn't have many legal categories to allow unskilled laborers to immigrate in for work. There's good chance, especially at the most exploitative work sites, the people are undocumented.

Econ 101. Supply and Demand curve. When there are more unskilled laborers in the country, the wage paid to all goes down. I think Democrats have to consider this issue and it's impact on the working class.

[Humanist_Activist]

110. It sounds to me like you brother aided in violating immigration, hence the importance of...

increasing penalties to employers so the stuff you mentioned they can't get away with.

You also can't expect perfection, you want 100% of people to be documented in this country? Then you need to seal the border, with not just a wall, but a dome that's impenetrable, and also no longer allow people in on tourist or temporary work visas. No foreigners allowed, at all.

Almost half of new illegal immigrants overstay visas, and came in on airplanes, not by sneaking over the border overnight. And again, if these people can't find jobs here, then they won't stay.

It sounds to me like you want another Operation Wetback, which was an extremely unjust policy of sweeping up all suspected illegal immigrants(Latinos) when they couldn't produce papers that very moment and deporting them to Mexico. Quite a few citizens of the United States were caught up in that sweep, you should look it up.

[hamsterjill]

21. I watched that program.

I wanted to grab Santorum through the screen and scratch his freaking eyes out. Smug SOB.

Yes, they are deplorable. We will all do well NOT to ever forget that, too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I doubt he sends the Dreamers back. They are sympathetic figures.

There will be images reminiscent of Bull Connor hosing and siccing dogs on child civil rights protesters.

[uponit7771]

26. We'll soon see what the GOP thinks about figures, DPutin gives a shit about himself

[hamsterjill]

27. I think there will be a great uproar if he tries.

While I don't put anything past Trump, I think any attempt to deport Dreamers will be met with some stiff opposition.

Santorum, however, was just cold and heartless in his answer to the young lady. That man has no soul whatsoever. Total slime in my book.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Trump is a bad guy but he's not stupid.

The images of gainful members of society being forcefully deported because their parents brought them here when they were children would be a public relations nightmare.

[MichMary]

30. That might have been the moment

that Clinton lost the election.

The country was (and is) pretty evenly divided, so by saying "half" of Trump's voters were a basket of deplorables, she was insulting 25% of the electorate. If you want to win, you just don't do that. She tried to walk it back, but by that time both sides had embraced it. The left, condescendingly, and the right, proudly.

I know Trump supporters. I may disagree with them, but I still respect them, and won't call them names. When I heard that she had said that my first thought was, "Wow. Way to win hearts and minds."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. If a person is a racist, a misogynist, a sexist, a hompohobe he or she is deplorable.

And if a person votes for a racist, a misogynist, a sexist, a hompohobe he or she is deplorable too.

[MichMary]

34. There's a difference between

thinking it and saying it. Discretion. It couldn't have hurt.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. That's a fair point.

Michael Kinsley said a "gaffe is when a politician tells the truth." She might have been better off not saying it.

It might be better than not to have the vote of a Deplorable if that is the difference between winning and losing.

For instance a racist will vote for a black candidate if he sees something in it for him or her.

[MADem]

85. NONSENSE. No one would have talked about the ugly fascists in the room

were it not for that remark.

Deplorable was a polite intro to ALT - RIGHT.

It was only then that the media began, grudgingly, mentioning it.

She was right.

Her "discretion" was spot on.

[Dems to Win]

33. My SO thinks that was the moment she lost the election

You're not alone in your thoughts

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. People who were never going to vote for Hillary, period. And yes, they are Deplorable

and proud of it.

[MichMary]

38. And there were a lot of people on the fence

who may also have stayed home, or left the top of the ticket blank rather than endorse the name calling.

[Maru Kitteh]

57. Then they helped Trump win and they ARE deplorable.

Deplorable is as deplorable does.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8339557

[Maru Kitteh]

56. "You can grab them by the pussy, do anything you want"

Clinton went on in her comments to say that half of Trumps supporters were just concerned, worried and hurting, and that we needed to address their concerns and help them see a clear path to a brighter, more secure future.

Trump, in his other comments, talked about trying to fuck married women and his strategic use of Tic-Tacs.


And I'm supposed to believe the people who voted for that THING were so grievously injured by the word "deplorable" - by the simple and easy observation that some among their number lacked a bit in moral character - that they just could no longer see through it to place their vote for greater equality, protection of healthcare, protection of women's rights, improvements to justice, debt-free college, investments in infrastructure, the expansion of clean energy, raising the minimum wage and the steady hand of the most qualified candidate to run in the modern age?

And that's why they picked misogyny. And that's why they picked racism. And that's why they picked an authoritarian, a deviant, a violent man-baby.

[font size = 3]I'm supposed to believe they chose "You can grab them by the pussy, do anything you want" because DEPLORABLE? [/font]

Sorry. Not buying that one for a minute. No siree.

[Generator]

77. Thank you

Neo fucking Nazi's like the precious "alt right" are deplorable. I know I have a family member that lost his mind and became one. They BELIEVE that black people are stupider than white people because of genetics. They BELIEVE white women should breed more white babies and have a separate homeland for white people. That is not only deplorable it is not American. And part of their whole stick is FUCK YOUR FEELINGS like that Milo creep. So Fuck their feelings. They want to take away civil rights and still be thought of as good people. They want to discriminant and still be liked. Well I don't like you if you believe this shit-I pity you and loath you.

[PoliticAverse]

103. Even if it is true you don't say it because it makes those people mad and more likely to actually...

show up and vote.

Clinton eventually apologized for the "basket of deplorables" comment but the damage was done.

[JustAnotherGen]

41. You've probably noticed I've been quiet

DSB - just for you because we've read and interacted enough on this site and others. . .

Just remember. We aren't the 'leadership'. We can say, write, think whatever we want about 'those people'.

THEY should be reaching out to us - not the other way around. It's their job to explain to us why they are right. If we think they are disgusting maggots for their reasons - that's okay too.

Even at DU - they are Republicans so at DU they are subject to attack, derision, mocking, etc. etc.

[Eleanors38]

54. Political parties reach out; culture warriors at this site do culture war, so they can't lead.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Reach out to anti-semites, sexists, racists, homophobes, misogynists, and xenophobes ?

I guess the reaching depends on who is being grabbed and where.

" Political parties reach out; culture warriors at this site do culture war, so they can't lead."

-Eleanor 38

Culture Warrior is a book by Fox News Channel political commentator Bill O'Reilly, published in the fall of 2006.[1] O'Reilly asserts that the United States is in the midst of a "culture war" between "traditionalists" and "secular-progressives". O'Reilly appeared on The Colbert Report to promote the book and revealed he is in the Grand Canyon in the picture on the cover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_Warrior

[JustAnotherGen]

75. Interesting reference eh?

Anyhooooo - it's up to the winning party to reach out to us. It's all on them.

[Eleanors38]

81. A political party reaches out for support; sometimes you can't condition that with purity tests...

I let several people see the posts of those who favor not reaching out the the smorgasborg in your title, and who favor instead letting them come to us. They were all very amused, to wit: "what's a political party for?" Oh well, the Party has been "coasting" for years.

[MADem]

86. Purity tests? Eschewing racists is somehow being too "pure?" Come on.

If you don't like our "coasting" Party, no one is holding you hostage.

[Eleanors38]

87. Responses:

By your estimate, what percentage of the white voting population is racist?

Is it practical the Democrats to achieve and hold power by appealing to those you consider non-racst?

Is it practical for the Democrats to achieve and hold power by eschewing those who don't like 'our' coasting pary?

In short, how far are you willing to go to achieve a proper standard for Democratic Party membership?

[MADem]

88. Here ya go: My opinions only, mind you-people who don't like don't have to buy...

By your estimate, what percentage of the white voting population is racist?


The vast majority of those who voted for Trump harbor racist views--even if they don't acknowledge them. Even if they deny them. Even if they insist otherwise. That man made xenophobia a part of his platform. He wants to deport all the brown people; he made no secret of it. He hates Muslims, too.


Is it practical the Democrats to achieve and hold power by appealing to those you consider non-racst?


Absolutely. Many people did not vote because they were caged, faux "verified" and falsely ID'd as a criminal, ID'd to death when they couldn't afford to buy ID, or disenfranchised because of convictions for which they'd done their time. We need to get all these people enfranchised and to the polls.


Is it practical for the Democrats to achieve and hold power by eschewing those who don't like 'our' coasting pary?


I don't know what a "coasting pary" is, but I think we can achieve and hold power by sticking to our LIBERAL -- not that "white man progressive" bullshit--but LIBERAL attitudes with regard to social programs, and our moderate, sensible tack when it comes to fiscal matters--pay your bills, don't go nuts on the debt, be fair in your dealings, that kind of thing, and a strong, but not OTT, military posture in the world. We should do more Hands Across The Sea type stuff--humanitarian and peacekeeping work. It pays dividends in warm feelings when done properly.


Oh, and not everyone needs or wants a 4 year college degree. Handing that shit out to people who don't want it makes them feel like they'll have to pay for something they won't use. College should be very affordable, tuitions forgiven for public service (military, teaching, VISTA/Peace Corps, e.g.) , but it shouldn't be "free." Post high school vocational training with a little bit of liberal arts on the side (it's uplifting to learn for learnings' sake, sometimes) might be the way to go with some of our community college associates degrees.


In short, how far are you willing to go to achieve a proper standard for Democratic Party membership?

I don't think we have to go very far at all. I do think we need to get back down in the weeds, and I wish Howard Dean were running the DNC because no one does fifty state strategy better than he does. I'd like to see the DNC revamped, with more specialty deputies doing outreach to specific communities and holding a fair amount of clout in their portfolio.

Clinton won by almost three million votes (and it could be more than that, who knows, really?) We need to work on voter integrity, so every vote counts, and make it easier, not harder, for people to vote.

[Eleanors38]

90. I appreciate your responses, and agree with most of your outlook...

You actually didn't fully answer the first question, as I was referencing the white voting population, not the easily-tagged tRump voters. I asked in this manner because a recurring theme in discussions of racism over the years is how most white people are racist. Do you agree that most white people (not just tRump voters) are racist?

Please excuse my sluggish tablet.

[MADem]

92. I think many (not all) white people are racist and most have been raised with "privilege."

That word, like that other P word, "progressive" is often overused and mis-interpreted.

People who have never worried about being followed around a store don't really understand what it is like when a person is targeted solely because of their physical appearance.

And when white people ARE targeted, which happens occasionally, or singled out, for, say, their pink hair, their excess weight, or their piercings/tattoos, or what have you, the UMBRAGE is extreme--it's like the crime of the century. It's an excuse for table pounding and fist shaking. Something must be done!

They don't understand that a large percentage of our population lives with those eyes on their back every time they go out into "integrated" society.

Is privilege--that complete lack of awareness that skin color opens doors that are closed to others--a sort of passive racism? Well, that's a conversation with a lot of twists and turns, I'd say.

Suffice it to say that those who are unaware of their advantages would do well to develop a little understanding and try, virtually at least, to walk a mile in their fellow citizen's shoes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Coasting means people who live on the coasts.

The people who pay for the red state's welfare bills.

[MADem]

93. I wonder how they'd manage without them, and their cash? nt

[enid602]

42. faces

I can't wait to see the looks on their faces when it sets in that their Medicare is going to be phased out. Too bad innocents will have to suffer as well.

[KittyWampus]

43. some of those "Deplorables" also voted for Obama twice. So maybe it was partly the candidate

running as a Democrat this time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. Even some racists will vote for a black guy if there is something in it for them.

And ninety three percent of Obama voters voted for Clinton.

[KittyWampus]

59. or maybe it wasn't necessarily racism. You have nothing to prove your point.

It's just your opinion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. I have nothing to prove that Trump was a racist?

[KittyWampus]

64. I was referencing the voters who voted for Obama twice and Trump once.

You haven't and won't address that reality in any meaningful way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. Hillary got 93% of them.

[ProfessorGAC]

99. DSB. While I'm Essentially On Board. . .

. . .that 93% number didn't do anything for your argument. That 7% of Obama voters is the difference between winning a losing. Had those 7% voted Dem, it would have been a landslide against Trump.

So, there was a flaw in the campaign run by the Dems. I'm not about to personalize the flaw and make it about HRC, but they did something wrong if 7% of the folks who voted for Obama decided to go Trump or to stay home.

Doesn't matter if we pin it down to on single cause, it could be a multi-layered effect, but the flaw in the campaign approach is evident by the result.

The other 30% who voted Trump, and would have done so no matter who the democratic candidate was, are unreachable. No point in reaching out to that 30%. It's a fool's game.

[StevieM]

47. The Democrat running this time had sky high job approval and favorability numbers just 3 of 4 years

ago. Then the McCarthyism began.

They might have had some success with this strategy against a different Democrat as well. They surely would have done everything possible to turn Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley into bad human beings as well. And, sadly, they would have had some success. We will never know exactly how much.

[KittyWampus]

60. They also did the same to Obama. And yet enough people voted for him. Twice.

[StevieM]

68. But it didn't go without saying that he could, or that any Democrat can. There are lots of factors

that determine whether we successfully defeat the McCarthyism or not.

The fake email scandal was unusually successful. We will never know exactly how it would have played out against O'Malley or Sanders.

We need to stop validating this nonsense about how we didn't reach out to working people. And it is especially absurd that people are saying that HRC ran a campaign based on "identity politics" given the campaign that Trump ran, which was all about identity politics. Hillary's message was "stronger together," and we should all be proud of that.

[Generator]

78. No right wing coup

in 2012. Voter's rights struck down. Putin. Comey. Yeah, Hillary "lost" But fuck even at DU people can't defend her. I'd like to see how Obama would have done with all his private communication available for everyone to rifle through. ALSO she has a vagina. Those are never popular in leaders in America.

[haele]

84. Obama caught them by suprise the first time, was the incumbant the second.

Also, Gerrymandering and other election "tactics" that encourage election irregularity hadn't yet become such an established fixture that they were able to be overcome. The Dems screwed up in 2008 when they decided to be magnanimous - because they mistakenly believed that they would be shown the same respect when there was already evidence of a polarization of the electorate going on.
In 2008, Democrats were still playing politics as if Tip O'Neil was still the leader of the House, and the Republicans still allowed liberals and moderates in their ranks. The GOP purged their party in the early 2000's in the name of being tough on terror and standing behind our flag and troops and all that - we should have seen where they were going then and developed a strategy then, instead of running our party as if it were 1989.

Once the Corporate-Religious Reich started winning majorities in state houses and governorships, voter suppression expanded as if on steroids. Walker was a warning shot for Democrats. President Obama did not win in 2012 with as much a margin as he had the first time - it was pretty obvious that voting would continue to get more difficult in the more condensed and poorer districts as time went on.

It took Citizen's United, Robert's court stripping down federally protected Voting Rights statutes. The minority vote was squashed this time around. And the GOP power brokers and their Media partners - both mainstream and internet, already had the anti-Clinton script written. And I'm very sure they had a "Bernie Sanders", and a "Martin O'Malley", and even a "Joe Biden" smear script waiting in the wings, because Democrats can't seem to play IOIYAD as well as Republicans play IOKYAR.
Benghazi and the E-mail server were just a lagniappe to them. Clinton being a woman was just another line on the checklist.

Face it. Because we have fewer authoritarians in our ranks and try to appeal to the greater good, Democrats have to work twice as hard and be twice as pure as the Republicans to attract our voters - no matter how much better our policies are for everyone - as opposed to policies packaged in glitter that are only better for a select few.

It's not fair, but that's how it is.

Haele

[PoliticAverse]

102. Actually the democrat running also had high negative numbers and a history of bad campaigning

decisions, another of which was motivating her opponents supports by insulting them.

[LanternWaste]

52. Or maybe it was simply effective commercial branding appealing to lowest common denominators

"So maybe it was partly the candidate running as a Democrat this time..."

Or maybe it was simplistic and effective commercial branding appealing to the irrational and the lowest common denominators... racists, sexists and bigots (i.e, Deplorables).

[KittyWampus]

61. Then that just means Clinton's commercial branding sucked, while Obama's was better.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Or maybe they loved Trump's hate?

[KittyWampus]

66. Or maybe Clinton never managed to get her message out to the people in the Rust Belt

to effectively counter Trump's hate.

The fact of the matter is you refuse to address the defects of Clinton and her teams efforts. And that does her or Democrats any favors.

It might make you feel good. But not seeing where you made mistakes means you just keep making the same mistakes over and over.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. Let's stipulate Clinton was a flawed candidate.

That still doesn't absolve those who voted for candidate who was a racist, xenophobe, misogynist, bigot, and sexual predator.

There were four candidates on the ballot. If they didn't like Hillary they could have voted for Johnson or Stein. I know if Hillary wasn't on the ballot I would have voted for Stein or Johnson, much more likely the former.

The Weimar Republic was a flawed place in 1933 but that doesn't justify the decision or absolve of guilt the voters who gave Adolf Hitler and his National Socialist party a plurality in the 1933 German federal elections.

[KittyWampus]

71. good for you on having your percieved moral high ground. That doesn't win us any future elections

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. Not perception. Reality. I am a more moral person

Not perception, reality, I am a more moral person than Donald Trump or those who knowingly empowered him.That's a low bar. We can start with the fact that I never grabbed a woman by the hoo haa without her consent in my life.

[PoliticAverse]

101. Apparently many here would prefered Obama lost rather than get those votes. n/t

[MadBadger]

50. I agree, still stupid to say these thing out loud by a presidential candidate

[Gothmog]

65. Trump supporters are racist ignorant deplorables

[SlimJimmy]

107. And ugly, toothless, and fat. You forgot those.

[roamer65]

79. I'd really love to say what I think should be done with them...but I would get banned. N/t