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malaise

(267,455 posts)
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:25 AM Dec 2016

There is only one reason why corporations have moved overseas

The greedy owners and shareholders want more profits at the expense of their workers - they do not want to provide health care, insurance or vacation. They want to pay less and less so they can grab more and more. They do not believe they should pay taxes anywhere. Groper Don the Con has practiced this for decades.

Fuck them all.

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There is only one reason why corporations have moved overseas (Original Post) malaise Dec 2016 OP
So right you are madokie Dec 2016 #1
Good morning my brother malaise Dec 2016 #2
And a good morning to you madokie Dec 2016 #3
and a good K&R to everyone; with another reason corporations moved overseas... Jeffersons Ghost Dec 2016 #34
So true Richard D Dec 2016 #41
Even Qingdao has become polluted. pangaia Dec 2016 #47
The Republican plan to bring those jobs back? yallerdawg Dec 2016 #4
also, the idiots will have to reduce polkution standards. Jeffersons Ghost Dec 2016 #35
A National Right to Work Law? They have wanted this since the 30's and FDR INdemo Dec 2016 #36
Right wingers never cite cheap labor as a reason. They stick to taxes and regulations as the reason. Trust Buster Dec 2016 #5
You hit the nail right on the head. It is about paying people the least. kwassa Dec 2016 #14
And that includes the ReTHUGs who are being stiffedby said corporations malaise Dec 2016 #23
I must know different Republicans IronLionZion Dec 2016 #48
Then Bear Creek Dec 2016 #68
The US govt has also encouraged companies to move operations to countries for geopolitical reasons FarCenter Dec 2016 #6
Exactly!!! Placing tentacles in other countries. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2016 #8
That's true as well malaise Dec 2016 #24
Exactly, Malaise! It's runaway capitalism in full swing with minimal checks and balances, and often RKP5637 Dec 2016 #7
You nailed it malaise Dec 2016 #65
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, panader0 Dec 2016 #9
All this is true, and... CincyDem Dec 2016 #10
Well the view is that there is no need to train your own when malaise Dec 2016 #25
Trump ignores that Corporate Boards can be sued if they don't investigate this option to save costs TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #11
Cheaper labor treestar Dec 2016 #12
That's why cheap oil is so important... Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #19
It's also because of scale. Yavin4 Dec 2016 #13
No, there's more. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #15
Carrier told their workers they're moving the jobs for cheaper wages. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #17
And they aren't being entirely honest. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #38
And why does outsourcing jobs keep their stock options strong? Because it brings down costs. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #44
Oh, for fuck's sake. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #54
I read it. I just don't think it proves your point. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #60
I agree with many of the reasons 2naSalit Dec 2016 #16
Very important malaise Dec 2016 #26
Tell me about it. 2naSalit Dec 2016 #32
Greed is a powerful force, all right, but it's lots more complicated than you suggest. MrModerate Dec 2016 #18
That's exactly it. I get so angry when I hear people blame smirkymonkey Dec 2016 #20
Because the corporate-owned media rammed in the "Unleash the power of the free market" ... Aimee in OKC Dec 2016 #39
Great links! Thank you! smirkymonkey Dec 2016 #57
I like Thom Hartmann's thoughts: rainy Dec 2016 #21
Absolutely correct malaise Dec 2016 #27
Power and too much money - greed. It corrupts. NRaleighLiberal Dec 2016 #22
They are required, by law, to increase profits ghostsinthemachine Dec 2016 #28
I disagree...embody corporate personhood in the form of the Board and CEO Moostache Dec 2016 #51
Absolutely wrong. CCExile Dec 2016 #58
The original corporate form as licensed by the New York Dutch -- byronius Dec 2016 #29
I know malaise Dec 2016 #55
The only force that could have stopped or slowed this exodus of jobs randr Dec 2016 #30
Steel and tire industries moved to where the markets were Kolesar Dec 2016 #31
K & R 50 Shades Of Blue Dec 2016 #33
It's our duty to revolt. We know the game is rigged in their favor YOHABLO Dec 2016 #37
Amen, brother Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #40
It's greed, more greed and more greed. eom LittleGirl Dec 2016 #42
Now in control,Republicans will be able to lure some Corporations back & make some stay. Sunlei Dec 2016 #43
They wouldn't have to provide any health insurance IronLionZion Dec 2016 #45
DJIA soaring on its way to biggest crash known to mankind. n/t SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2016 #46
DJIA has nothing to do with the 99%. nt raccoon Dec 2016 #53
Those that didn't enticed cheap workers to come in illegally to bust unions rurallib Dec 2016 #49
Excellent point malaise Dec 2016 #62
I was going to say that the only reason is that.. ananda Dec 2016 #50
Truth you speak. BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2016 #52
And they are addicted to their wealth. No amount is too much for them. Initech Dec 2016 #56
More more more malaise Dec 2016 #61
amen sister! spanone Dec 2016 #59
That sums it up... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #63
Ronald Reagan Bear Creek Dec 2016 #64
He did more than that malaise Dec 2016 #66
Yes indeed Bear Creek Dec 2016 #67
It's hilarious malaise Dec 2016 #69

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
34. and a good K&R to everyone; with another reason corporations moved overseas...
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:18 PM
Dec 2016

These billion dollar money-makers do not plan to meet rational pollution standards or realize that Climate Change is having a much worse effect on the planet than media reports. Before factories of China and the USA were allowed to totally destroy it, Beijing was one of the most beautiful and historic places on Earth. Destroying the atmosphere is China, destroys the climate on a worldwide basis.

Richard D

(8,673 posts)
41. So true
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:52 PM
Dec 2016

I was there in 1983. Such a beautiful place.

Also, few people have noticed that in the Northern Hemisphere there's now a constant haze in the air. Even in the deepest of nature, it's there. This is from pollution from mainly China and India.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
47. Even Qingdao has become polluted.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:08 PM
Dec 2016

This was once a beautiful 'small' city on the coast... ( right across the Yellow Sea from South Korea) and a major destination for Chinese vacationers with several beaches, beautiful hills....the home of TSINGDAO BEER yea !!...now.. the air is getting worse and worse....not as bad as inland but, pretty depressing....

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
4. The Republican plan to bring those jobs back?
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:31 AM
Dec 2016

Get rid of healthcare, insurance, vacations, minimum wages, and corporate/upper income taxes.

The "Grapes of Wrath" model of employment.

Or worse.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
36. A National Right to Work Law? They have wanted this since the 30's and FDR
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:30 PM
Dec 2016

"Hitler viewed Unions as a powerful threat
1933: Hitler Abolishes Unions

https://www.laprogressive.com/hitler-hated-unions/

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/senator_brown_says_hitler_and.html


Think about this Trump is sounding the Anti-Union alarm
 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
5. Right wingers never cite cheap labor as a reason. They stick to taxes and regulations as the reason.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:32 AM
Dec 2016

That way, outsourcing can be blamed on the government instead of greedy business owners. Try to get a Republican to blame cheap labor as the reason for outsourcing. They refuse to even acknowledge it.

malaise

(267,455 posts)
23. And that includes the ReTHUGs who are being stiffedby said corporations
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:58 AM
Dec 2016

The idiots who voted for Groper Don the Con

IronLionZion

(45,162 posts)
48. I must know different Republicans
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:09 PM
Dec 2016

Oddly enough, many of the Trumpers I know are against "the cheap labor express". Mainly against immigration. But they think they will have more jobs and higher wages with Trump.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
6. The US govt has also encouraged companies to move operations to countries for geopolitical reasons
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:38 AM
Dec 2016

Those "trade missions" are designed to keep or acquire US alliances. The globalist foreign policy establishment does not care about American workers -- only American global political, financial, and military power.

malaise

(267,455 posts)
24. That's true as well
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:00 PM
Dec 2016

Nice pliant governments who are 'grateful' for jobs make great allies - they turn against their own people.

RKP5637

(67,008 posts)
7. Exactly, Malaise! It's runaway capitalism in full swing with minimal checks and balances, and often
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:38 AM
Dec 2016

those making obscene profits by dumping on their own country are immersed in US politics and power pulling the strings.
Trump is capitalism on steroids. It laughable and sad that the deplorables think he and his crew are going to be their hero. None of this is going to end well for the US.

CincyDem

(6,250 posts)
10. All this is true, and...
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:47 AM
Dec 2016


I can't help but wonder about the effect of diminishing technical education and skills. When you look at where we are on the global rankings for math and science skills, it's only average at best. In Math we're below average trailing countries like Vietnam, Lithuania, and Hungary to name a few. In Science we're tucked in just a hair above average and well behind Slovenia - you know, the country we mock because it produced Melania.

So part of it is the economic drivers of company management but I don't think you can rule out that Republican's destruction of the public education system has not only hampered critical thinking skills (see 2016 election results), it's also hampered technology thinking skills necessary to compete in the new, post industrial age world.

malaise

(267,455 posts)
25. Well the view is that there is no need to train your own when
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:01 PM
Dec 2016

you can drain other countries of their home trained scientists

TheBlackAdder

(28,027 posts)
11. Trump ignores that Corporate Boards can be sued if they don't investigate this option to save costs
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:51 AM
Dec 2016

.


At least that is the excuse that the RWers gave last year to justify such actions.


Most of the financial institutions are shifting their staff to Eastern Europe and Pacific Rim, a slow migration.



Of course, those moves will not be reported on, even though it's tens of thousands of jobs a year.


.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
12. Cheaper labor
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:53 AM
Dec 2016

It's the capitalist's nature to lower costs of production. What surprises me is the distance! China is so far way yet their labor is so much cheaper that the shipping cost does not undo the benefit.

Wounded Bear

(58,362 posts)
19. That's why cheap oil is so important...
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:53 AM
Dec 2016

close down the oil and the whole economy collapses. That's why they cling to the oil based economy and geopolitics.

Yavin4

(35,310 posts)
13. It's also because of scale.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 10:55 AM
Dec 2016

To meet global demand for products, you need a massive work force to meet the demand. We don't have a large enough workforce to do it.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,104 posts)
15. No, there's more.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:07 AM
Dec 2016

Some companies move their operations overseas not because of labor costs, but because they want to finance stock buyback plans that artificially inflate stock prices for their shareholders. See Carrier.

SunSeeker

(51,295 posts)
17. Carrier told their workers they're moving the jobs for cheaper wages.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:46 AM
Dec 2016

The union chief for Carrier, the one Trump bashed on Twitter and blamed for jobs moving, told Lawrence that the union asked Carrier what they could do to keep the jobs in the US. Carrier said there is nothing the workers could do because they'd need to take less than $5 an hour, which would be illiegal as less than minimum wage.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,104 posts)
38. And they aren't being entirely honest.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:42 PM
Dec 2016

UT share prices were down. UT decided to buy up $16 billion worth of shares. This would artificially inflate the price of UT stock, which makes UT shareholders very happy. The trouble is, $16 billion isn't exactly chump change for a company that profits about $2 billion a quarter, give or take.

In other words, United Technologies executives decided to kill thousands jobs to keep their stock options strong.

Of the two stories, "we're outsourcing you to save labor costs" is probably the one least likely to generate outrage.

Here's the skinny: http://www.wsj.com/articles/united-technologies-unveils-12-billion-buyback-1445343580

SunSeeker

(51,295 posts)
44. And why does outsourcing jobs keep their stock options strong? Because it brings down costs.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:03 PM
Dec 2016

Like Carrier told the union chief, "it's just business." That is why business must be regulated. Left to its own devices, it does horrible things to workers, because workers are a commodity to corporations, much like paper clips. Corporations will go for the cheapest paper clips, every time, unless the law prevents it.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,104 posts)
54. Oh, for fuck's sake.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 04:11 PM
Dec 2016

There's really no point in continuing this if you can't be bothered to read what's put in front of you.

SunSeeker

(51,295 posts)
60. I read it. I just don't think it proves your point.
Fri Dec 9, 2016, 05:40 AM
Dec 2016

It says:

United Technologies Corp. said Tuesday it will increase its stock buyback plan by $12 billion, sending the conglomerate’s shares higher even as it copes with declining sales and profits.

The maker of Pratt & Whitney jet engines, Otis elevators and Carrier air-conditioning equipment reported a 5.6% decline in third-quarter sales to $13.8 billion, while profit fell 26% to $1.36 billion.


Looks like poor profits drove them to prop up their stock with a buy back to prevent the stock from tanking from a shareholders' sell-off. To make their bottom line look better and bolster stock price, they cut costs, including resorting to cheap out of country labor.

The labor savings from moving to Mexico will be about $65 million annually. Considering United Technologies has annual revenues of $55 Billion, that kind of cost savings "starts to approach irrelevant." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/amp/articles/2016-11-30/united-technologies-trump-focus-on-carrier-shows-farce-of-deal

They do this shit because, short of laws forbiddong it, that is what for-profit businesses do. It is not spurred by any particular stock buyback scheme or actual need to cut costs. It is spurred by what capitalism is all about: maximizing profits, even if they are already profitable. It is never enough. They always want more profit.

2naSalit

(85,635 posts)
16. I agree with many of the reasons
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:45 AM
Dec 2016

given above and I'll add another... they don't want to be environmentally responsible either. They hate that we have clean air, water and other protective policies and laws to protect the biosphere and these greedy fucks don't want to clean up their acts, they just want to do everything "down and dirty" because it costs less. So now you see the selections for high office this past two weeks turning out to be the very enemies of the environment these laws were intended to protect us from,... and they intend to kill all of those laws protecting our air, water, wildlife, natural resources.

2naSalit

(85,635 posts)
32. Tell me about it.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:13 PM
Dec 2016

I live at the edge of one wilderness, in view of two others and near two national parks as well... these and all National Forest and BLM lands surrounding them are all at risk now.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
18. Greed is a powerful force, all right, but it's lots more complicated than you suggest.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:50 AM
Dec 2016

Many corporations are genuinely global -- they work across state boundaries. A lot of US-based companies have grown to cover the entire world.

And it's a basic rule of business to reduce costs when practical to do so.

The trick is to set the rules so that sophisticated private entities can't game the world system. If the UN had any teeth, it could police transnational commerce and mitigate abuses.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
20. That's exactly it. I get so angry when I hear people blame
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:55 AM
Dec 2016

it all on Unions I could scream. Why are do so many working people side with the 1%?

Aimee in OKC

(157 posts)
39. Because the corporate-owned media rammed in the "Unleash the power of the free market" ...
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:43 PM
Dec 2016

while at the same time going along with the demonizing of government as the problem, not the solution, to society's ills.

Done properly, though --> "Government Is Good" . This is an extensive website (look in the left-hand column) which is the project of Douglas J. Amy, Professor of Politics at Mount Holyoke College, with some excellent resources.

"A Guide to Rebutting Right-Wing Criticisms of Government"
http://www.governmentisgood.com/feature.php?fid=14

"The Forgotten Achievements of Government"
http://www.governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=7

And the classic "A Day in Your Life"
http://www.governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=1

* * * * * * *
It would be nice to see a billboard along the lines of

" Are you a fish?
Fish don't think about water ...
http://www.governmentisgood.com/ "

rainy

(6,080 posts)
21. I like Thom Hartmann's thoughts:
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 11:55 AM
Dec 2016

When we taxed Corporations at a high rates after the first few million in profits they wisely chose to put that money back into their companies in the form of good wages and benefits, rather than pay 70% taxes on excess profits.

Now that they have written all the laws and bought all of our politicians, they get to keep all of their profits and they just keep enriching themselves and their CEO's and investors without having to pay for all that taxpayers give to them in the form of good roads, educated employees, court systems, fire and police protection and so much more. Tax payers now pay for all of THEIR benefits!

ghostsinthemachine

(3,569 posts)
28. They are required, by law, to increase profits
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:05 PM
Dec 2016

If they don't, they are illegal. PUBLIC corporation must maximize profits in every way possible. It is the ONE AND ONLY responsibility they have.

End Corporate PERSONHOOD, unless that changes, NOTHING CHANGES.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
51. I disagree...embody corporate personhood in the form of the Board and CEO
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:17 PM
Dec 2016

Then make them all criminally liable (and more importantly prosecutable and actually PROSECUTED, TRIED AND CONVICTED) for any malfeasance their corporate "person" commits. And since right-wingers all *claim* to love "law and order", let's make sure that the death penalty is applied generously to their crimes against humanity...

Environmental dumping? Will not happen if the CEO believes he could be electrocuted as a result of authorizing it.

If we really want to balance the behavior of corporations with humanity, we will end the "fiduciary responsibility" bullshit and replace it with human, environment and communal responsibilities that must be balanced AGAINST the "fiduciary responsibility".

Make CEOs HUMAN again...and the world will instantly become a better place!

byronius

(7,361 posts)
29. The original corporate form as licensed by the New York Dutch --
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:07 PM
Dec 2016

-- had as part of its language that the corporation must serve the good of the public first. This was the 1600's.

This language was adopted by the British and then by the Americans in turn. In the early 1930's, a series of court cases allowed the then-absolutely-corrupt Republican Party to remove that language from the corporate charter.

It's just who they are. Burn it all down for pure profit.

randr

(12,408 posts)
30. The only force that could have stopped or slowed this exodus of jobs
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:07 PM
Dec 2016

were American Unions. Once they were neutralized and the corporations gained access to writing international trade agreements, one of Clintons' mistakes, we are left with the world we live in today.
As long as Walmarts showed up in every city to provide the foreign imported goods replacing American made products consumers were happy to trade jobs for cheap crap.
We are all complicit and the 1% are more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
31. Steel and tire industries moved to where the markets were
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:08 PM
Dec 2016

Continental tire could not sell into South America with the cost of American labor in the tires, so they built plants near the markets. Then shipping tires back to America was just an obvious, profitable plan. To their credit, Goodyear makes Indy Car tires in Akron still.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
43. Now in control,Republicans will be able to lure some Corporations back & make some stay.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 12:59 PM
Dec 2016

When they allow Corporations to take full advantage of our 13th amendment.

About 50,000+ work for Corps today, many thousands more fight the wildfires, work on Corporate farms, slaughterhouses, fish farms. That number of 3rd class, unpaid worker can easily increase to several million workers.

IronLionZion

(45,162 posts)
45. They wouldn't have to provide any health insurance
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:07 PM
Dec 2016

if we have universal Medicare for all. It's the pro-business, pro-jobs plan. If rich people don't like it, they can buy their own private supplemental insurance, just like Canada.

The groper might actually support this and said good things about it before.

But most likely they're going to cut taxes. Dems should make sure they cut many of the corporate subsidies and deductions they abuse too. Especially if they take taxpayer money and then move jobs outside our country. Those types should be called out for a lack of patriotism.

rurallib

(62,328 posts)
49. Those that didn't enticed cheap workers to come in illegally to bust unions
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:10 PM
Dec 2016

in some industries that are harder to move facilities (meat packing for instance) enticed workers to enter the US illegally to be used as union busters.
Then when the heat gets turned on about illegal workers the corporations know nothing.

ananda

(28,758 posts)
50. I was going to say that the only reason is that..
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 01:12 PM
Dec 2016

.. nobody is stopping them.

They're oughta be a law ...

Initech

(99,881 posts)
56. And they are addicted to their wealth. No amount is too much for them.
Thu Dec 8, 2016, 06:17 PM
Dec 2016

They could make $85 billion in profits in one quarter, and they would be like "How can we increase our profit margins?". Fuck them.

Bear Creek

(883 posts)
64. Ronald Reagan
Fri Dec 9, 2016, 07:47 AM
Dec 2016

Remember he turned our economy into a service economy. Every one was going to lineup for America's money making prowlness. I remember telling the republicans what is going to happen when there is no one left here to buy their crap. They said they wanted people here "not them" to take any job they could get with low wages and be glad they got it. They did not want to pay $5.00 for a hamburger.

malaise

(267,455 posts)
66. He did more than that
Fri Dec 9, 2016, 01:17 PM
Dec 2016

He turned citizens into consumers and society into a marketplace - their aim is to destroy the public good

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