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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumscwydro
(51,308 posts)I don't think we're that famous lol.
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 10, 2016, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)
And we're a centralized meeting place for reporting voting irregularities during elections. This was the first time we've been hacked during a vote and the first time we've been out of commission for a week. Skinner said whoever did this knew what they were doing. I don't buy the casual troll theory.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I just found it hard to believe it was the Russians.
However, as another poster pointed out - there was a funny kind of foreign vibe to that stupid pic that was put up.
Who knows?
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)since their financial resources to hire hackers run so deep, and they've hacked everything else: DNC, staffers' personal emails, maybe even the vote totals themselves. And Russia definitely benefited from the hack.
A sophisticated attack like this seems prohibitively risky for mere domestic partisan satisfaction, but more likely when you consider that the actors are foreign and beyond reach of our laws.
Aimee in OKC
(158 posts)Trial runs, distractions, who knows?
Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #5)
Post removed
Baitball Blogger
(46,706 posts)I don't think it was a casual coincidence.
Believe me on that
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)I can see that...
or...
even more nefariously....to start a database of insurgents.
cilla4progress
(24,731 posts)Election night!
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)And got laughed out of the place. Someone even posted an old Boris and Natasha cartoon. I think they could have been involved. There was something oddly Eastern European about the message that they installed when the attack began. I can't remember what it was, but it definitely had a foreign vibe
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I picked up on that too, but I just can't see what possible reason they would have to hack DU.
Especially on election night when every thread is practically a dupe of every other.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)Vigilant people who would be watching the returns closely and as a collective
mopinko
(70,103 posts)we are fairly famous, actually. and for election watching in particular, imho.
they didn't want people able to communicate and track the election tallies as they came in
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)streaming of election results -- a source outside of M$M. A coincidence? I think not.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)election "irregularities" until it was too late.
qanda
(10,422 posts)Something stinks to the high heavens about this election.
Response to Dream Girl (Reply #4)
RoccoR2 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)Looks like you may have just arrived in the past day or so..
Hekate
(90,683 posts)mfcorey1
(11,001 posts)RoccoR2
(90 posts)will self delete
Response to RoccoR2 (Reply #26)
Raine1967 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Alekzander
(479 posts)Trump's kconnection to Russia & Putin & with his close association with Russians who had connection to Putin & are now on his staff along with the fact you have Bannon of Breitbart. It is nothing to be laughed at but a very relevant analysis & possibility.
That said, who knows & we will never probably know for sure who it was.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I still think it very unlikely the Russians were behind the hack, but given everything that has come out now it's no longer a laughable assertion. I'm going to list a few facts, or strong suppositions, in support of and against the idea
In favor of the idea that Russians hacked us
1. DU has a history of hammering any information that suggests that an American election has been stolen or that there is an element of election fraud. If there is another site that does more of that and can put more eyeballs on any such allegations posted, I am not aware of it. That being the case, if someone was going to mess with our elections and wanted to prevent dissemination of information about election issues, this is one of the sites they would likely target.
2. The hacking was timed so that the site went down just before the results came in. Again, if this was the result of an actor that messed with our elections, this is exactly the time you would want it to happen.
3. The message itself
3a. As many noted, the syntax and other wording suggest a middle eastern writer.
3b. The message suggested the election of Trump was a fait accompli. Trump was definitely going to be elected, when the latest data up until that point suggested the opposite.
4. The hack seemed pretty sophisticated. I don't know the DU software but the website wasn't merely brought down. The attack was much more sophisticated and thorough than that. There was zero chance the website could be successfully brought up in time to have meaningful discussions about election irregularities before it was too late. This could point to a state actor.
Against the idea that the Russians hacked us
A. DU has been the center of negative attention for a number of groups and websites. Any one of them could have done this to hurt Skinner, EarlG, Elad and the membership during their busiest time.
A1. At least one of those websites themselves were hacked in the not too distant past and I saw some suggestions that they suspected someone connected with DU. This could have been revenge.
B. The timing again could have been just to hurt us at a time when DU was busy.
C. The hacking community has plenty of folks who are capable of sophisticated hacking. It wouldn't have to be a nation state or their security services.
D. Would the attack on DU be worth it for the security services of a nation state? Worst case scenario is someone found voting irregularities in real time, it was posted here as an OP and several hundred or thousand of us clicked on the sharing mechanisms to send it to Facebook and Twitter. Would that be enough to substantially increase the risk of discovery of any election issues? So much is being posted and tweeted on election night. It might not be enough.
Hekate
(90,683 posts)DU was very likely a practice session.
Not joking here.
luxpara4
(41 posts)Free republic is currently down right now, it seems to be odd timing
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)luxpara4
(41 posts)Hekate
(90,683 posts)Rumor has always been they have never had the wherewithal to upgrade, luxpara4.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)Good. Let them fret about the CIA or FBI attacking them as much as Liberals.
Luz
(772 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)global1
(25,247 posts)to raise suspicion. It looks suspicious that DU went down on election night and was down for a week afterwards and nothing happened to FR.
Coincidence that it's down today with all this talk about Russian hacking of the Dems and the election.
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)vance-mz24
(1 post)Yes i certainly do. Everyone did not get it wrong with the polls. Back in 2008 Chinese were involved in our election.......I feel strongly that it just hasn't been officially released yet But yes yes yes RUSSIA was involved in our election.
renate
(13,776 posts)Puha Ekapi_2
(69 posts)...least
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)Warpy
(111,259 posts)and how Wikileaks was played because that's where all the hacked material was dumped back in early October.
I think we did rattle somebody's cage, somebody who wanted this site offline around the election.
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)Diddling the largest contested election in the world, how much time would you waste hacking a powerless debating group to take them down in the middle of said election?
Warpy
(111,259 posts)but I can imagine government sponsored troll factories and other mischief makers taking the job on themselves.
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)This year, we couldn't.
We aren't powerless and we aren't unknown. Individually, maybe, but the site as a whole is influential, and our Google rankings bear that out.
UCmeNdc
(9,600 posts)DU members set off alarms!
This year no DU!
blue neen
(12,321 posts)Yes, indeedy.
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)Where DU caused any action to be taken at a polling location?
Did discussion here have a real time real world reaction?
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)For instance, on election day Skinner often pins threads with phone numbers to call if you have problems voting.
I could cite many examples of calling attention to voting irregularities, but here is just one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025756762
DUers in the Election Reform forum have been sounding the alarm about how vulerable paperless electronic voting machines are since about 2003.
The strength of DU is that we discuss irregularities as they're happening from localities all across the country, and often alert the media which makes us dangerous if you're a foreign power looking to manipulate.
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)only one. There were probably scores of hackers, probably very sophisticated and well organized and preparing for a very, very long time...not just a few guys.
Initech
(100,075 posts)That's the question I want to know - were there other sites hacked? Could this have been part of a plot to silence the opposition on election day?
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I kind of doubt anyone with any authority would order the hack of this specific website, but I get the impression they have a lot of middlemen and volunteers with a green light to do whatever. We've had multiple Russian propagandists on this site before, so some random Russian hacker wouldn't be too crazy.
brooklynite
(94,561 posts)This is a nice place to discuss politics, but it has no influence on the Government or the electoral process.
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)the many things planned election day. Disrupting communications was a goal.
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)I remember a long time ago being told that whenever the powers that be wish to cover their own nefarious tracks, they blame it on the Russians. Lots of CIA and FBI and DIA BS crap thrown at the Ruskies to divert attention over the decades. Russians? Perhaps. FBI? Why not? American Right Wingers? Could be? Hope we find out some day!
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)they unleashed on line. Many of us on twitter had accounts blocked/had to change passwords repeatedly. More important 🍊 opponents had a message from Gmail about hacking by forces allied with a government. For the rest of us, the ties were looser.
applegrove
(118,654 posts)Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)joanbarnes
(1,722 posts)joanbarnes
(1,722 posts)thread or smoking gun that would prove all this-Before anyone else was even talking about it.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)I kept wondering what the deal was with that. Apparently DU did attract some attention.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)flamingdem
(39,313 posts)for fun!
They really did make us suffer with that one.
mulsh
(2,959 posts)Sure the Russians could have hacked DU.
oldtime dfl_er
(6,931 posts)Not sure why people are pooh -poohing this idea. There is power in our group, although we rarely use it in any constructive way. But there are plenty of Russian hackers, it's not like they would have spread themselves thin in order to hack us.
We cannot afford to laugh off any ideas right now, no matter how absurd they may appear.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Crazier things have been suggested. Was 2000 a coup between the GOP and the M$M? Was 2004?
Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)I noticed a lot of individuals who eventually migrated to JPR had posted a lot of garbage news stories prior to their departure. Then when called on their bullshit the universal response was to say the OP forgot to post a sarcasm tag.
They were here and they were quite busy disrupting things and pitting against each other in the run up to the election.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)byronius
(7,394 posts)AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)I think it is very likely that DU was hacked by russian hackers. Is there any doubt they are very aware off all political websites, we are talking about massive cyber operation to bring down liberal democracies worldwide by Russia. France is the next most important test where Russia is financing Le Pen's campaign. It's gonna be a battle in the months to come.
Is there any way DU can enlist support of intelligence services to find out who did that?
Towlie
(5,324 posts)Hacking the election would have required a very sophisticated person or team with considerable technical and political knowledge, plus a clearly defined goal and strong motivation. They would have to have known what they were doing, including how to cover their tracks, and their goal would have been to anonymously bring about a profound and history-changing result. Hacking DU was little more than a prank, and for such people to bother with that would only add unnecessary and pointless risk.
Quixote1818
(28,936 posts)I think it was a Freeper type who just wanted to be an ass-hole. The Russian Gov. has bigger fish to fry.
bleever
(20,616 posts)Submitted while DU was still down, but posting members' submissions:
Why DU?
We know the Feds suspect Russian hacking into the election systems of Florida, Illinois, and a number of other states. http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/12/politics/florida-election-hack/ ;
If the state systems are vulnerable, the county election boards aren't going to be any more secure.
We also know that small changes in key counties can make a huge difference, even to the point of getting someone "elected" by finessing the Electoral College while losing the popular vote and defying all the polls (which are, let's face it, much more scientific and thorough than the tabulation of votes).
Back on election night of 2004, like last Tuesday night, a lot of people found themselves watching the totals roll in and felt they defied logic, just as everyone, including the candidate himself, is surprised at the miraculous outcome of the vote tallies this year.
That evening in November 2004, and continuing into the following weeks and months, DU became one of the key places on the internet where people assembled and raised and documented the statistical impossibilities that the election of Bush posed. At DailyKos, you could get banned for talking about fraud (instead of discussing why Democrats were losers).
DU's Election Results and Discussion Forum 2004 became an ongoing and evolving meeting place for citizens and leading academics to discuss whether the election had been hijacked. I would argue that it was a key factor in getting the conversation of the electronic theft of the 2004 election to go national (and beyond).
Back in 2004, DUer "Botany" worked long hours at the polls in Ohio, that critical, pivotal, essential state, and witnessed it being stolen with his own eyes. While DU (meaning the admins) didn't take any position on the question of election fraud, it gave him a place to share his experience so that it was able to ripple out and join with and amplify other voices from all across the country and become a national conversation.
Here in 2016, if you've read Botany's email on this page, you know he had an even more definitive experience this election.
Stifling dissent is a basic tool of guys like Putin. If someone were to try to pull this off, shutting down online discussion would be one of the first things on the to-do list. You'd want to make sure random citizens like this Botany guy wouldn't gather in the streets or on the internet and share their stories.
This is why I think DU was hit by something sophisticated enough to disable it for a number of days, and not just by some rude, punkish hack.
Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)Our "collective." First time I've heard DU referenced that way. But... yes, that would be what I'd say as to why.
Silver Gaia
(4,544 posts)I remember 2004, especially Ohio, and being on DU following threads here and watching at the Ohio SoS site as results were tabulated. I will never forget that. I didn't say much, but I was watching, too. Our outcry against this was loud and clear, and the work done by many here in the aftermath was IMPORTANT. I think we were silenced this year because of that. Someone wanted to stifle the ability of the bright minds here at DU to come together to QUESTION what was done to America on election night and the immediate aftermath.
tinrobot
(10,900 posts)We would have been the ones sounding the alarm on a fraudulent election..
The perpetrators disrupted our means of communication.
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)wildman76
(292 posts)I am sure they were trying to data mine the site for information on membership etc.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)wildman76
(292 posts)I just joined this site so no I didn't see video
LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)very bizarre piece of a video that had a limo window lowering, dRumpf holding a weapon, and the caption was something like "Get out of here, you faggot!" I was so startled I couldn't figure out what was going on. I immediately posted something on the questions for admin page, and then everything went blank.
Very strange.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)Turbineguy
(37,329 posts)never underestimate the Russians.
Aimee in OKC
(158 posts){Posted elsewhere but fits well here, too}
THE AGE OF CHATBOTS IS UPON US
Chatbots are software agents that engage in conversations with humans and may even take physical actions. < CLIP > According to the University of Southern California (USC) study, the 2016 US Presidential election has been influenced by chatbots interacting with social media, also called social bots.
The study concluded that 19% of the 20 million Tweets in a five week period just prior to the election were created by social bots.
In 1950, Alan Turing, considered one of the fathers of Artificial Intelligence (AI), proposed the Turing Test to quantify machine thinking. For a computer to pass the test, it must only dupe 30 percent of the people who chat with it for five minutes.
At the 2014 Turing Test competition, for the first time Russian chatbot impersonating a 13-year old passed the Turing Test by duping 33% of its interrogators.
http://techseen.com/2016/11/08/age-chatbots/
* * * * * * *
So, Oct. - Nov. = 3,800,000 Tweets by chatbots.
A Russian chatbot actually passed the Turing Test in 2014.
And we know, officially, Russia interfered with our election.
The KGB (of whom Putin was one) were masters of deception, misdirection, and sowing of dissent among allies. "Divide and conquer" has been a valid strategy since before the Romans used it.
DU went down Nov 8 about the time that the Florida vote count suddenly went south for HRC.
krawhitham
(4,644 posts)It would have been wise for Russians to cut off that flow of information if they were stealing the election
REP
(21,691 posts)Has there been one investigation that was a direct result of reports from DU? I don't think there has.
I think it's important to DU, but since usually only Star members can get in Election night, I don't think it makes any difference to anyone else
LandrosT
(50 posts)After all, they were responsible for the DNC leaks, and they have a vested interest in getting Trump elected.