General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't post that often and I'm sure many consider that a good thing. But, please, read this one.
It's sliding away.
Our democracy, our morality, our leadership in the world---Trump, plagued with the twin illnesses of arrogance and greed---is about to destroy the greatest nation the world has ever known. It would serve no purpose to recite the details. I understand that I am preaching to the choir here---a very informed choir. But, so we're informed---so what?
Like a lot of you, I suspect, I'm wondering just what I can do to impact this tragedy; to prevent Trump from assuming power as the tin pot dictator he has always wanted to be. I think it has to be something big, something drastic, something that no news organization can ignore or mischaracterize.
As a child of the 60's, I understand demonstrations. I know---because I've been told by some here---that that is old-fashioned and cumbersome. I am aware that social media has opened up a myriad of new possible avenues for protest. BUT---
---Nothing you might do digitally could compare to, say, a million people assembling on the Mall to INSIST that the Russian hacking and election interference be fully investigated, that the Senate not approve the fascist rogue's gallery Trump wants for his cabinet and that Trump produce his damned TAX RETURNS!
I am 67. I am willing to throw my arthritic body into the cogs of Trump's machine, but I need to know just where I can have the most effect. I---WE---need leadership to organize effective counter-measures and we need it NOW. If we do not "flood the zone" with indignation, protests, outrage and an absolute refusal to accept this bullshit that is being peddled as "just another election", we will live to be outcasts in our own land.
If, as some of these, neo-nazis have hoped, it is some day a crime to be a liberal Democrat, by God I don't want my charges dismissed for lack of evidence! I and millions like me will follow if a nationally known leader will point the way.
underpants
(182,739 posts)I wasn't sure about what I'd do but this post has inspired me to take a train to DC as I did on October 26, 2002 to protest the war. Seriously.
Generator
(7,770 posts)that day and doing it local here downtown It may be our last chance.
rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)"If, as some of these, neo-nazis have hoped, it is some day a crime to be a liberal Democrat, by God I don't want my charges dismissed for lack of evidence!" Me either.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)rurallib
(62,406 posts)That will be an early and major target.
GP6971
(31,133 posts)tom_kelly
(957 posts)Ilsa
(61,692 posts)Far in advance of their meeting and voting. We have a right to know what he owes Vlad and his friends.
iluvtennis
(19,844 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)and indignation voiced over the internet is weak-kneed in the face of the threat to democracy we now face. Whatever we do as Americans concerned about the health and well-being of our democracy, it has to happen soon ... and it must be huge.
We need to all urge the leaders of existing democratic movements alive and well on the net to step up and organize a nation-wide protest ... soon, before the electoral college meets. It has to be huge in DC, but it needs to be huge throughout the US as well.
I am going to do my piece. If you're okay with it Atticus, I am going to send your alarm to every venue I can think of in the next 24 hours as well as the Congressional delegation that represents me, the DOJ, friends and family. Someone, somewhere with influence and credibility needs to take this on immediately -- before it is too late. Time is short!
I would urge you all to do the same. Our nation is under threat.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Scruffy1
(3,254 posts)I never post and hardly ever comment although I read this sight daily. personally, I have come to believe that demonstrations in themselves are ineffective and as a card carrying lefty I've been in a gazillion of them. Had one today in very cold temperature and about froze my feet. There's nothing wrong with a protest if you realize it's just really a get together and an outreach, but if you think it will change anything by itself it won't work. I have come to believe direct action is most effective, but I don't see a general strike happening anytime soon, though a nationwide strike would be nice. Remember, that areas that vote for Democrats control over 2/3 of our economy. I live in a heavily democratic district, so there's not much more I can do about national elections in my area, but what I can do is organize resistance against deportations, political intimidation, attacks on minorities. If we stick together and cover each others back we can make it through until better days. I'm not religious at all but have found many allies in the churches, especially the Catholics who have strongly stood up for their Hispanic members. They also will protect our Muslim neighbors.
The demonstration today was in an area of my city with a large Hispanic population and was really just a way of saying we are with you. Solidarity is the key.
Meanwhile if I have to die I can't think of a better way of going than to jam the fascists gears. I can still remember a very old Priest standing in the doorway of his church and telling ICE they will enter his sanctuary over his dead body. I hope I have the courage he had. Resist and resist and resist.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Thanks for posting again. I will also be honored to die fighting such a foreign threat to our nation. Please keep posting again!
#ResistResistResist
90-percent
(6,829 posts)it's bad for business and therefore censored to non-existence. The largest gathering of protesters in human history took place all over the world prior to the March 2003 Invasion of Iraq. And most Americans are not even aware of that remarkable little fact. It drove me bat shit back then because I read DU and knew it was all lies. Deliberate lies intended to frighten all of us into war and "to get those bastards that did this to us." And that was the turning point where "the powers that be" learned that hitler's "big lie" propaganda techniques works as good in the present as it did in Germany in 1933!
-90% Jimmy
lastlib
(23,204 posts)the monkey wrench IN the cogs of the Trump machine!
I want to grind it to a WRENCHing halt!! I want to DUMP TRUMP!!
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)who feel exactly the same. I wrote a response in another thread today saying essentially the same thing (though far less eloquently).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8351014
I think we're all just waiting for the word on where to go and what to do. We need leaders. Political and legal planning. I'll get on a train (or find a ride) like someone up thread mentioned. Just tell me when. I believe the average apathetic non voter would participate on this one too.
For starters I think I'll send an email directly to President Obama and Hillary. We have to get the ball rolling now or we lose. Permanently. Our country. Our planet. Our future.
marlakay
(11,447 posts)There seem to be no liberal leaders doing more than swatting at flies while the rest of us watch in shock, hoping someone strong will come forward so we can follow.
Pinkflamingo
(177 posts)BEFORE the election. He's still in charge.
We should have shown outrage that continued from the election night to now. This stupid election needs to be unwound and re-done.
Denis 11
(280 posts)The blue parts of this country, that pay the bulk of the taxes just stay home on a national strike. Let the red areas see we are not standing for this bull$*it.
mopinko
(70,074 posts)most of the workers who would join us are f'ing invisible to those who could not make it to lunch time w/o them.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)File for a permit, have a slogan, promote it, invite people, coordinate buses.
The trump administration has filed for ALL the permits in DC over the inauguration, including blocking the million woman march. I don't know how this will turn out, but trump is blocking the American people from freedom of speech, because it is against him.
Maybe contact the organizers of large actions like the million woman march and hook up with them for a new one regarding an Election Do-Over.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Do we have "freedom of assembly" or don't we?
Do we have the right to petition for "redress of grievances" or don't we?
At my college---MANY years ago---all postings on university bulletin board sites had to be "authorized" by a dean or department head.
We always just posted whatever the hell we wanted and included the stamp: "Authorized by a speeding rhinoceros!" No one ever "got in our way".
If a million of us show up, what they gonna do?
We start with a "PISS ON TRUMP!" attitude and go from there. Attitude is everything. "We ain't doin' nothing' we aren't ENTITLED to do. WE BELONG HERE!"
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)I don't know how it works in DC, but they have a permit process. Can they enforce it or not is the question?
We for sure are going to find out on January 21st when 1000's show up to protest. I have three family members that have plane tickets and rooms rented. They will be marching at the million woman march (two are men)!
But you speak of a march now to demand an election do-over. That has teeth!
MarvinGardens
(779 posts)Bring food, water, blankets and extra gas and prepare to sit in your car, clogging up the gears.
roborob
(1 post)Hi Equinox Moon -- where did you find out that Trip filed for ALL permits? Is there a link? -- thanks, Rob
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)He was reading from a press release report (I believe), but he was reading from something about it. I know in my city people have to apply for protest permits, they are arrested if they show up without one. So much for freedom to assemble and all that. Just as the radical right gets around the rules with abortion rights in places like Texas.
Yet, we do know about inauguration day protests being organized, plus, the Million Women's march on Jan. 21st. (I have three family members going to the one on the 21st; plane tickets, room reserved in MD and will take a train in.)
This link is about Jan. 20th anti-trump protests planned.
http://www.answercoalition.org/protest_on_inauguration_day
I don't know how this all will unfold. I do know America is in distress and we will march about it!
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/none-of-the-inauguration-protests-have-their-proper-permits-yet-heres-why/2016/12/08/82ba757e-bbc6-11e6-91ee-1adddfe36cbe_story.html
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)here. He is installing so many generals at the seats of power. The majority of currently enrolled military voted for him.
He is the "law and order" president.
I think he would do that here.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)lapislzi
(5,762 posts)They'll be sorry they did. Right there with ya, Atticus.
progressoid
(49,969 posts)tomp
(9,512 posts)they are too entrenched in playing "by the rules." that's not going to work.
classykaren
(769 posts)cpmx2006
(35 posts)I am 74 yrs old have been a life long democrat live in the raciest Piedmont of NC
about all my friends and relatives have turned rethug, I am tired of fighting the rethugs, i don't see much hope of ever turning our country around with fox news and most radio stations blasting hate for our party 24/7 it is a huge up hill battle, I hope I am wrong but my nerves can't take much more. The worst thing that could have happened to our country took place on Nov 8, god help our souls..
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)I wish I had more to offer you.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)about 40 years. They're different worlds, but NC wasn't always like this. It's dismaying.
Maybe those of us in deep blue areas are more optimistic because we believe people are reachable. How can they not be when none of this makes sense? It like Obama said once, he felt if he could just sit down with someone and have a one-on-one that they'd get it (or something like that.) But, I hear more and more voices like yours, who have quietly and patiently discussed with friends and relatives in red areas but reasoning doesn't penetrate.
Why don't they see how they vote against their own self interest? How can they not see the great disparity? How can they believe a proven lying billionaire who never missed a meal or did anything for anyone but himself will somehow deliver this 'great' America nobody can define - and which of course we already have?
We have the numbers, and they are growing. Just as it's tough for me to see how things won't turn around, albeit with enormous damage to undo, I can understand how - without being 'mongst the blue - it's tough for you to feel anything but pessimistic.
But we must believe in the power of numbers. We have that on our side. There are more of us.
You and I might not live long enough to see our country taken back, but it will happen.
We have work to do.
anniebelle
(899 posts)I never thought I would live to see my country turn into a Nazi Nation. November 8, 2016 changed my life completely. I can't sleep, can't concentrate, don't even dare turn on any so-called 'news' ~ I'm just sick ~ I feel my soul has been stolen by the ignorant and the greedy. The ignorant and hateful doing the bidding of their masters ~ talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. I have no pity for these who have no decency, no shame, no sense of what's best for all. They are so full of hate and their fake righteous indignation, they are blinded by this onslaught of misinformation, outright lies, their phobias, that they are willing risk our entire country because they are willing to sell their souls ~ for WHAT? I feel such angst every day, I'm truly glad my time is almost up, I don't even want to live through this nightmare of what's coming for the less fortunate among us and where are the arrogant, greedy bastards going to live after they've destroyed our way of life and our planet???
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)That's the only thing they understand. Put our money where our mouth is.
"Soul stolen by the ignorant and the greedy".
Response to anniebelle (Reply #48)
Name removed Message auto-removed
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)I agree that once Trump comes to power, democracy in the US will be indefintely compromised but I do not beleive much can be done. It is one of those things that it will get very dark before it gets better. The history will play itself out.
We had our chance during the campaign. So many people were not enthusiastic about Hillary. She didn't even bother campaignig in Wisconsin - otherwise she would have probably won the state with such thin margin. Same in Michigan - needed early agressive campaigning focusing on jobs and not Trump.
Whether we like it or not but the US constitution has only three requirements for a President - be 35 y.o. or older, naturally born citizen and reside in the US for 14 years. Trump has satisfied those criteria and the public has the right to elect Hitler. He can be impeached, of course - because once in office, there is a whole set of impeacheable requirements.
Honestly, with all the terrible things that Trump has said and done - people still voted for him. And no doubt those voters don't give a damn about Russian interference. Given a chance, they would vote for him again. This is the new normal.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,379 posts)EPA? OSHA? Nixon-era creations. Maybe with not so much enthusiasm, but they go back to 1970 or so.
I remember Nixon.
WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)we are seeking.
s-cubed
(1,385 posts)There will be thousands of us there - men and women. But a citizen doesn't need a permit. If people just show up no one can stop you. It's when an organization plans something that you need a permit.
So come to DC! There are lots more of us!
Atticus
(15,124 posts)---that's the day AFTER the inauguration. And, the right wing storm troopers are already preparing to "stomp the marshmallows."
I would prefer---if it could be by consensus of a few hundred thousand people or more---December 18th: one week before Christmas and the day before the electors vote. We make the evening news flashing half a peace sign to Trump and then home for the holidays.
Silver Gaia
(4,542 posts)AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)can replace a real life mass protest is either delusional or too lazy to get off their ass.
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Pick a day and have Anti-Trump protests WEEKLY. It will build over time.
BLM did that in my city. Every Friday, they protested outside of the Attorney General's office. It worked!
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)The idea will blossom and people will plan for their own part in it. "Build it and they will come."
Let's start the ball rolling here. What day and what to call it?
canetoad
(17,149 posts)But as all you senior citz are willing to put your creaky old bodies on the line, where are the young fit people?
CaptainTruth
(6,583 posts)...including several of my relatives. I feel like if I don't stand up & fight for America now I'll be dishonoring their sacrifice, & I can not do that.
I'd love to have a sort of central clearing house where protest actions are coordinated.
We need numbers, millions of voices, too loud to ignore, & visible, physical actions like gatherings & demonstrations.
barbtries
(28,787 posts)has volunteered reluctantly and has a youtube channel known as the resistance. he's been speaking pretty profoundly to me. maybe we can build on his movement.
i do feel that void. i also joined my local women's democratic group.
gotta do something, must resist, no good german here.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)They cannot elect the beneficiary of Russian interference.
No business as usual. An indication of what will come if the electors fail in their duty and elect Trump.
jg10003
(975 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)I don't have a lot of money to give. I need to know where any money I give will do any good. How do we figure this out?
democrank
(11,092 posts)We need to brainstorm and come up with a plan. I know it can be done because we've been there before.....Civil Rights movement, Women's Movement, marching against the war in Vietnam, the war in Iraq, marching for Gay Rights, Standing Rock.
We can:
Set up a rapid response system here on DU
Contact members of Congress
Compile a media contact list
Write letters to editors
Organize protests and marches
Buy bumper stickers
Put signs in our yards and windows
Start demanding more action from our leaders
Boycott
Strike
Volunteer
Every now and then someone here posts that we are the change we're waiting for. We are. I remember the 60s well, where people....lots of them....brought about changes without computers or cell phones. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Aimee in OKC
(158 posts)In case DU gets hacked again, at the same time set up a phone calling-tree as back-up, with e-mails perhaps as well and not forgetting Twitter and Facebook.
Silver Gaia
(4,542 posts)and how we did it in the 60s and early 70s. We didn't always go by "the rules" because all that did was keep us in "our place." Sometimes, we had to just sidestep stupid rules and go for what we knew needed to be done.
Social media is great for organizing, but making posts and writing letters is nothing compared to the impact of thousands of people in the streets. Dammit, I want to DO something! Waiting until the 21st is just too late. By then, it's OVER. It's done. We need to be out there NOW.
And you are right. We need a LEADER. Who will do this? Who can do this? No one's going to listen to you or me... we might as well shout into the wind. We need someone to step forward who can shout from the rooftops so people will hear us. I have been carrying this frustration around in my heart for several weeks now, and am about to just EXPLODE.
I'm happy to step forward, but I need someone to point the way, a way for ALL of us to come together. Give me a rallying point! Without that, we are just flailing around. We need someone to lead us...
stollen
(419 posts)If this congressional attack on our Constitution doesn't make you angry, nothing will.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...and I realize my "golden years" will be spent working and fighting.
Paladin
(28,246 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I live 2 hrs away. I can go every week. I am retiring 12/16. I was going to keep working but Trump got elected & I want to free up my time because we're going to need all hands on deck. I don't belong to any protest groups although I am active in my local dem party but they are still talking about somehow trump won't be president without making any effort to stop him. I was very active in the 60's I know how to do this.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,713 posts)Put your voice in their face. It may be a futile last ditch effort but what does it cost?
At very least we tried. I have shared this in as many places as I could.
Then sign the petition almost five million people already have.
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19-4a78160a-023c-4ff0-9069-53cee2a095a8
Once again a noble try, but it may work.
I have heard all the arguments party loyalty, will never happen, blah, blah, and on and on.
Com'on less than ten minutes out of our lives. Maybe, just maybe.....
Moostache
(9,895 posts)We are on the precipice of the second Civil War, and the longer we dilly-dally and deny that reality, the greater the military disadvantage we will be in when the military must choose sides and the weapons must be claimed.
The most powerful military in the world, and the most destructive arsenal ever assembled is going to be trained on dissenters in this country unless a civilian-led coalition is able to convince the military to back them against the chain of command.
Once Trump takes the oath of office it is a much bleaker, much tougher climb. Now for the truly terrifying....think back to the campaign and the musing of Trump on why nukes can't be used. Do you KNOW that he would never unleash them on say California or Washington?
Mark my words, if Donald J Trump is allowed to ascend to the Presidency we will lose much, much more than an election.
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)How many generals is he surrounding himself with? This will certainly enable a fluid transition to martial law. We are beyond protests, petitions and complaining. They don't give a f*** and are more than happy to put a bullet between our leftist-communist-socialist-libtard-atheist-feminist-gay loving eyes.
Hyperbole?! Ha. Only by those who think our enemies are reasonable.
Excellent post Moostache.
Jacob Boehme
(789 posts)When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)The most frustrating part of all you said is attempting to convince the RW's programmed zombies to shut off frickin' FOX noise and listen to the real facts. They blast back the false equivalency that their confabulations are just as valid as our facts because the FOX said so with slick graphics and stuffed suits to lend the veneer of validity.
This said only having watched enough FOX years ago attempting to care for my now posthumous father, who passed on laden with every reprehensible form of bigotry that has now carried a ruthless dictator to power over our nation.
But I saw enough. Enough to see the "don't believe anyone else, we tell you the truth" meme. Enough to watch a media empire lay waste to magnanimous amounts of factual information from every well accredited institution of higher learning in the whole world with "It's all left wing conspiracy" crap.
Yes I've had enough. And I'd love to join the masses in protest. But reality sets in. I'm gay. I was denied all inheritance. I recycle paper cups for as many uses as I can before tossing them. I barely make my car and rent payments and it's been that way for this 57 year old since Ray Gun. I've spent months at a stretch unemployed after the republicans lay waste to our economic base while fat cats buy new islands.
I could no more afford a ticket to a Washington protest nor the time from work lest my fragile barely-above-homeless raft sinks.
And I believe that is by design.
woodchuck mom
(16 posts)Absolutely by design. The left has been deliberately hollowed out and strategically impoverished. Keep 'em desperate and keep 'em down. These are the greediest, most amoral rat bastards on the planet. A foreign power, a declared enemy for more than half a century, interferes with the American election for the purpose of electing Trump. His campaign was in contact with the Russian s multiple times, per the Russians themselves. And somehow we're supposed to just sit down and STFU?
And the brainwashed dupes gloat over their "victory" while enabling treason. The founders whirl in their graves.
world wide wally
(21,740 posts)We can't allow him to become entrenched with a sense of legitimacy not to mention the US military at his command.
MarvinGardens
(779 posts)The Electors vote in the state capitols, so would red state capitols be a better place to protest? On the other hand, a very large one in D.C. could cause quite a ruckus that would be all over the news.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)IF protests in state capitols got ANY media attention, it would be local and squeezed in after the farm report and just before a promo for Duck Dynasty.
MarvinGardens
(779 posts)I probably lack the leadership and networking skills to organize such a thing, but if someone else does, I'm there. Preferably before the Electors vote.
LittleGirl
(8,282 posts)I'm right besides you...arm in arm.
Locut0s
(6,154 posts)I wonder if that might not have already been the case for some time. Obama may have been a bright light set against the darkness that has been American politics of the past decade or more. But if we are to talk about true progressive left wing popular support I kind of fear that ship may have sailed a long time ago. Since at least Reagan both parties have been ratcheted progressively to the right so that by the time Bill Clinton took office much of his politics looks like republican politics of decades past. Corporations run both parties.
I would like to be proven wrong but I just don't feel there is the heart left in enough Americans for the kind of popular demonstration you mention. I kind of feel that a lot of that has been burned out of them by decades of disillusionment. But please prove me wrong!!!
blm
(113,040 posts).
Dalai_1
(1,301 posts)Nitram
(22,781 posts)raven mad
(4,940 posts)Me and some friends shut down our high school in 1971................
wildman76
(292 posts)I could not say it better,thank you