Greenwald, Cole, W R Pitt, ...go on down the line

[SHRED]

Many left leaning websites.
Many people I admired once.

They made zero effort to get behind Hillary as soon as she was nominated.
In fact they actively worked against her. It's all there in their writings.

Because these asshole elitists didn't lift one finger to elect Hillary my wife and I will most likely lose our health coverage now that tRump is in.

No it's not their "fault" but you catch my drift.
Must be nice to be an elite like them and pontificate from lofty and highly educated secure perches. They're so clever.

Onward to revolution.

[duffyduff]

1. I haven't read W.R. "24 Business Hours" Pitt in ages.

It doesn't surprise me he worked against HRC.

[UTUSN]

6. kudos

[NBachers]

24. Yes, he did something inexcusible, and I said, "I'll never read that jerk again." And I haven't.

I'm just not as impressed with him as he is with himself.

[LisaM]

28. Nobody is.

My one run-in with him was when I criticized Pope Benedict and he got my thread locked because I was going after "his" religion. Note: I am a Catholic.

[Cha]

33. E gods.. Benedict didn't seem like the best Pope.. seemed he

needed some calling out.

Thank you, Lisa~

[LisaM]

2. Sigh. I hear you. n/t

[SHRED]

4. And I'm a hardcore "Bernie Bro" (I hate that)

Someone here talked sense to me along with the fact that we faced tRump. That was all the I needed.

My friend in Seattle clued me in also.
I grew to support her with no reservations. I saw the alternative and now that Orange Anus fascist is in our face.

[TonyPDX]

53. Yep. I became a Precinct Committee-Person in my county to push and support Bernie,

but after the primaries I canvassed, phone-banked and donated what I could afford to Hillary's campaign. The most remote prospect of a President Trump was too much for me, but I also wanted to model activism for my teenagers.

[Hortensis]

73. You guys are modeling important differences between

extremist and non-extremist tendencies. I just wish people wouldn't talk about Bernie supporters as if they were all rigidly righteous and intolerant ideologues, when only a relatively few have been.

[bettyellen]

3. Ironic the POSUCS was all over a glitch in execellent coverage....

It was an epic pratfall.

[Baitball Blogger]

5. This shouldn't be in the GD forum.

Seriously? Hillary gets more than 2.7 million votes more than Trump; we have hard facts that Russia interfered with the election and you're still trying to beat up potential ally's?

Here's a hard fact for you: Russian hackers gave information to the right, and they engaged in a fake news barrage that exploited negative polls that Hillary already had. They took an image problem that we all warned you about, and they kept piling on with lies and false information to people who already didn't like her - or Trump for that matter.

In the end, I think it will be determined that despite all of that, the election was literally stolen. My money is on the Recount.

[SHRED]

8. Allies?

Tell them to quit beating up on Democrats still.

They are.

We are Democrats aren't we???

[Baitball Blogger]

13. Damn spell-checker.

Yes, allies. I would suggest that you stop allowing them to take too much of your time and attention. It would help if we had some kind of leader helping us focus on the big picture. In this case, Clinton as a candidate has helped expose a major weakness in our political system. Putin was definitely hoping to take her out of the running, in order to elect someone who is undisciplined in foreign diplomacy and an allie to Putin. He exploited the great divide that exists in this country, and frankly, if we're going to take the high ground we're going to have to take on the right-wing media that keeps misinforming the other side. They are so fucking stupid that they think this change in foreign policy with Russia is no big deal.

Maybe, if Democrats began leading the way the people that are upsetting you would lose any reason to complain.

[tecelote]

29. +1

[Cha]

34. And, I suggest you're dead on to call them out.. and I THANK YOU

for it, SHRED!

JHC I hate it when I'm told how to do my business.

"Allies"? oh god.. lol omg ROFL

[Baitball Blogger]

45. Oh, Cha. You're better than this.

[Cha]

46. Greenwald is an enemy. End of story.

[DanTex]

10. Greenwald is right at this moment trying to deny Russia's meddling.

That guy is an ally to nobody except Trump and Putin.

[truebluegreen]

12. I way I read it is he is denying that we have the whole story

[DanTex]

14. Same excuse that the climate deniers give.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

18. Except that Greenwald is a Paulite

He admitted as much once on Bill Maher's show.

[Cha]

31. Hey that's what trump is doing and all the gop.. cept Lindsay and

McCain I hear.

I knew all this long ago when greenwald was hating on the President and calling us Obamabots.

[Cha]

35. Exactly. Thank you, Dan

[Cha]

47. Of course he is.. protecting Russia.. like he gives a shite if our

Election was ratfucked.

who the fuck in their right mind would listen to him?

[NastyRiffraff]

42. It really is possible that both things are true

The Russian hackers AND the lack of support for the Democratic nominee by some "Democrats." Both of these things contributed to Dump's (illegitimate) win.

You're seriously calling Pitt an ALLY? Are you kidding? He did everything he could to help ensure a Dump win.

[Baitball Blogger]

52. I'm just wondering why DUers waste their time fighting against progressives

who do not post on this site. We are not in a position to burn bridges among our own. Take the high road.

I don't consider Pitt a friend or an enemy. Frankly, I think he has hurt his cause more times than he's helped it. I also have seen pro-Clinton forces engage in the same odious behavior. None of it is improving our portfolio. None of it is bringing us together. And right now, we need to find a cause we can all agree on, because the right-wing are very much on the same page. I hope we can get as cohesive as they are, except that our cause will be just because we carefully examine the facts before we take on a cause.

[stevenleser]

69. We discuss things, that's what we do in a discussion forum

And no, we don't need to unite with folks who are a fifth column

[Baitball Blogger]

72. You are going to have to define your terms a little more, before I can determine where

we stand.

I doubt Will Pitt is fifth column. Is this a term you are reserving for progressives like him and, perhaps, also members of the Green party?

[kcr]

49. Oh, you warned us?

Well, then. Did you somehow know that all the hacking and fake news was going to happen, too? That would have been epic. With allies like that, man...

[Baitball Blogger]

54. Well, it was a fact that someone exploited.

Both candidates had high negatives in their polling numbers. But, in Clinton's case we were aware that the right had made it their mission to fight the Clintons. Of course we were aware of typical dirty trick strategies and typical mudslinging. We just never expected that 1) A foreign nation would hack emails to provide fodder to the right; 2) That the information that Russia was involved in the hacking would be kept from the public by a partisan decision from Mitch McConnell; 3) That the FBI would help tip the scales with the suggestion of an investigation; 4) That the right would lie like their entire existence depended on fooling the undecideds; or 5) That there would be so much evidence of election tampering.

But, all these extraneous factors are the reason why we need to come together to demand justice.

Frankly, I think she did far better than I expected--nationwide.

[still_one]

7. Ironically, W R Pitt called President Obama every vulgar name in the book because of the ACA,

and because he incorrectly thought he wasn't covered, but found out later he was. He never apologized for the slurs used against President Obama, only to those on DU for using such language.

Hopefully not, but there is a real possibility that the ACA that he was cursing along with President Obama, might just leave 20 million people without insurance. Who is he going to rant against then? Perhaps himself?

[SHRED]

9. Despicable

[Cha]

30. Mahalo, stillone

[still_one]

37. Hello Cha

[NastyRiffraff]

43. Pitt did his best

to ensure a Dump victory, illegitimate as that was. What he said about President Obama alone should brand him as a stinking creep who hates Democrats.

Pitt will never rant against himself.

[Gothmog]

59. The attacks on President Obama turned me off with respect to these authors

[cwydro]

66. I actually don't consider Pitt to be an "author."

That's not what he is.

[Gothmog]

74. I have never been impressed with Pitt's articles and works

He is really not that good of a writer in my opinion. I find his attempts at articles to be really weak

[Fast Walker 52]

11. yeah... also David Sirota and many lefties like him

treasonous fuckers

[hfojvt]

15. it is? (there in their writings)

I notice you do not supply any links.

Not sure who Cole is. The Deputy Sheriff in Billy Jack? and I never cared for Greenwald, but still think of Pitt as an old friend, even if I have not read him or written to him in years.

I am probably going to lose my savings from Obamacare too, and it will cost me another $3,600 a year to get health insurance.

There's always been a big branch of the left which hates Democrats as much as they hate Republicans. While I can sympathize with that view, after an election, it is foolish to take it before one. I expected better from Pitt.

[SHRED]

16. Here

http://www.juancole.com/2016/12/america-russia-yourself.html

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia-beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/

https://m.facebook.com/william.r.pitt.1/posts/10154765178831111?pnref=story

[hfojvt]

22. Just one facebook post from July 13th

Probably still raw from the Bernie loss. Presumably he wrote some between August and November.

I think he was naive to think Trump was so beatable. None of those other Republicans could beat him. I don't think we had a stronger candidate than Clinton. I still think Bernie would have gone down in flames and Republicans would have even bigger majorities in Congress if he was our nominee.

Biden would have been a strong candidate, but if he was not strong enough to beat Hillary in a primary then how does he do better in the general? Plus, in my view, Biden is no more progressive than Hillary.

Who does that leave? Martin O' Malley? Who? He would have a steep hill to climb just getting his name out there. Of course, those are hills that Carter and Bill Clinton got over, but they had the advantage a) of being from the south and b) Clinton had Perot.

As for Trump being weak. Well, he got 3 million more votes than Romney and four million more than McCain. Almost two million more than Bush. Because he was running against Hillary? If people will vote for Bush in 2004, then they will probably vote for almost ANY Republican even if the Democrats nominate a war hero.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. I can't see it with Juan Cole

From your link:

I don’t doubt that the Russian Federation employs hackers and PR people to influence public opinion and even election outcomes in other countries. So does the United States of America. But I am skeptical that anything the Russians did caused Donald Trump to be president.

It wasn’t like Trump was a Manchurian Candidate, a stealth plant in the US body politic who would only be operationalized once elected.

Trump was in plain view. He had all along been in plain view. His hatred for uppity or “nasty” women, his racism, his prickliness, his narcissism, his rich white boy arrogance and entitlement (apparently even to strange women and other men’s wives), his cronyism and his fundamental dishonesty were on display 24/7 during some 18 months of the campaign, and it wasn’t as though he were an unknown quantity before that.

All he's saying is that, in his opinion, Russia's efforts didn't make a difference. As for what he wrote during the campaign:

When I trained as a lifeguard they warned us that you have to be very careful how you approach a drowning victim flailing around. They will be so happy to be rescued that they will grab you and pin your arms and freeze up, and then you’ll both sink to the bottom and drown. You have keep your distance, keep your arm stiff, and pull them out straight on their back, head out of the water, to reassure them. Then you can rescue them. The rescued teenager may not be a saint. Or they may have a bad family situation. You’re not thinking about that when the issue is whether they will live or die. Maybe they can straighten out their lives if they end up having lives.
So America is drowning, and voting for Hillary Clinton is the equivalent of rescuing it. It is the stiff arm to deal with a hysteria that will otherwise sink us.
I see too many people agonizing over this election. Will they vote for the Greens? Libertarians? Is Hillary as bad as Trump?
Did your mother drop you on your head? This is a drowning country we’re talking about. You don’t have the luxury to sit on the beach and decide whether to go in. And maybe you’ll be delivering the country to someone who is a bad mother. But it will be a live country and maybe the mother could be reformed. Drowned people can’t be reformed. Remember when, in Princess Bride, Inigo Montoya brings Westley to Miracle Max (Billy Crystal) to be brought back from the dead? And Miracle Max discovers Westley isn’t dead, and so could be revived: “Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do.” Inigo Montoya: “What’s that?” Miracle Max: “Go through his clothes and look for loose change.”

http://www.juancole.com/2016/11/america-trump-mother.html

[Hekate]

32. I remember WRP from the early days here and cared enough to PM him about the Texas summer heat....

....when he was thinking about going out to Camp Casey dressed all in black. I liked him.

But he started to go into an eccentric orbit at some point and I stopped interacting. The last straw was POSUCS. I wrote an extensive reply more for the sake of educating others than for him, because he was past that point himself, having orbited out somewhere past the Rings of Saturn in terms of reachability.

The points I made were: my husband and I have chronic diseases; my sister's son does as well. When you choose to marry a person already knowing they have a very serious chronic disease, you don't stop with patting yourself on the back that Love Conquers All, because it does not. It comes with a responsibility to educate yourself thoroughly about your own medical plan, including the fact that if you move to a different state (which they did) the coverage will not be the same. You learn the relevant details, and vocabulary like "formulary" regarding which medications will and will not be covered, and which hoops you have to jump through.

If you are at all rational, you do not flame the man who practically killed himself getting the ACA passed by among other things calling him a piece of shit used car salesman.

If the ACA is scuttled, as it may well be, Mrs WRP will be among those who suffer most. Hillary Clinton -- speaking of those who tried like hell to get a universal health care plan enacted -- would never have harmed the ACA. I am old enough to remember how hard she tried to work with the Senate when she was a brilliant young lawyer consigned to being FLOTUS. I remember how the GOP treated her then, and I remember how both the GOP and the Left treated her this past year.

Unbelievable.

[hfojvt]

36. I still have mixed feelings about the ACA

even though it saved me over $3,000 this year.

It probably would have saved me (and the taxpayers) more if my state had expanded medicaid. At least I think that with medicaid, the state would only have paid for my health CARE this year, which was only about $200 - one flu shot, one office visit, and one prescrip for amoxicillin. Instead the state is paying a $330 a month subsidy to an insurance company and I am paying the other $42 a month. (actually I am paying $72 a month but presumably will get some of that back when (if) I file my taxes next year.)

But my premiums went up by over 50% this year. So, as it turns out, did the subsidy, but dang that is ridiculous cost increase and I feel kinda bad about soaking the taxpayers for $6,000. (I did not feel so bad about this year because the alternative (insurance from work) would have cost the taxpayers even more (because I work for a local government).

Also I plan to meet with a friend on Tuesday to see about his health insurance. He is being threatened with a $1,300 fine from the ACA, claims that he could not find affordable care last year (and paid a smaller fine). So I will see how that works out for him.

Gotta say too, as a quasi-leftist, that I have never cared for the Clintons. Nor have I been all that happy with Obama. I really did NOT want Hillary to be the nominee. Not at all, but I saw Bernie as suicide for the Democratic Party, and our party does not really have a lot of progressive alternatives to Hillary, or anyone who would beat her in a primary.

Anyway, I understand why the left might hate her, since I feel that way myself, but she beat the alternatives and dammit we need to win more Congressional elections too.

[mcar]

51. I wrote a long one in that thread too

I, and others, pointed him toward the pharmaceutical company that made the meds. In short order, he was able to get his wife's medications at no cost.

I couldn't understand why anyone with a chronic health condition would relocate without knowing if their care would be covered.

[elmac]

17. many millions will lose their health coverage

and Medicaid and Medicare and SS and food stamps and unemployment benefits and freedom in general. Its going to be a shit storm like no other. This is fascism, and less then 1/3rd of the country made it happen. There is a lot of blame to go around & until the "system" gets fixed, which will take a revolution at this point, the 99% are screwed.

[leftofcool]

19. We will lose our medicare as well.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. When "God_Bush_And_Cheney" Andy was dying, Pitt questioned the validity of it

I'll never forget that one. It comes as no surprise that there would be a long trail of fuck ups after that, I wouldn't know, I ignored and rejected anything from then on.

[NRaleighLiberal]

21. Belongs in 2016 Postmortem. n/t

[pnwmom]

23. Except Greenwald is a libertarian -- that doesn't make him left leaning.

Libertarians are against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public roads, public schools, etc etc etc.

Many people were mistaken about Greenwald because he was critical of Bush, but that doesn't make him an ally, as you have noticed.

[TomCADem]

25. Greenwald - Leaks to the WashPost About the CIAs Russia Beliefs Are No Substitute for Evidence

Here is Greenwald carrying water for Trump in echoing this attack on anonymous sources, as well as dismissing reports of Russian interference as Democrats complaining about the election results. Greenwald was never a friend of the left.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia-beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/

These unnamed sources told the Post that “the CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system.” The anonymous officials also claim that “intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails” from both the DNC and John Podesta’s email account. Critically, none of the actual evidence for these claims is disclosed; indeed, the CIA’s “secret assessment” itself remains concealed.

A second leak from last night, this one given to the New York Times, cites other anonymous officials as asserting that “the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.” But that NYT story says that “it is also far from clear that Russia’s original intent was to support Mr. Trump, and many intelligence officials — and former officials in Mrs. Clinton’s campaign — believe that the primary motive of the Russians was to simply disrupt the campaign and undercut confidence in the integrity of the vote.”

Deep down in its article, the Post notes — rather critically — that “there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions remain unanswered.” Most importantly, the Post adds that “intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin ‘directing’ the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to WikiLeaks.” But the purpose of both anonymous leaks is to finger the Russian government for these hacks, acting with the motive to defeat Hillary Clinton.

Needless to say, Democrats — still eager to make sense of their election loss and to find causes for it other than themselves — immediately declared these anonymous claims about what the CIA believes to be true, and, with a somewhat sweet, religious-type faith, treated these anonymous assertions as proof of what they wanted to believe all along: that Vladimir Putin was rooting for Donald Trump to win and Hillary Clinton to lose and used nefarious means to ensure that outcome. That Democrats are now venerating unverified, anonymous CIA leaks as sacred is par for the course for them this year, but it’s also a good indication of how confused and lost U.S. political culture has become in the wake of Trump’s victory.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

26. I called WRP on his sexism more than once. Even got him to change something. :o

Once.

Remarked on wannabe gonzo journalists a time or two, as well.


And I so agree...a lot of progressive men still have a Dudebro problem. It is really fucking irritating. Holds back so many things that could have been good--for everyone.

[TomCADem]

27. "Progressive" Cornel West Takes A Victory Lap After Helping Elect Donald Trump

You have to add Cornel West to this list.

http://thedailybanter.com/2016/11/cornel-west-donald-trump/

For an example of this third group, look no further than Cornel West, avowed foe of all things big "D" Democratic and enabler of Donald Trump:

The neoliberal era in the United States ended with a neofascist bang. The political triumph of Donald Trump shattered the establishments in the Democratic and Republican parties – both wedded to the rule of Big Money and to the reign of meretricious politicians.

West is one of those insipid "Both parties are the same" types that just happily cut off their nose to spite their face. If that sounds mean and condescending, let West explain his myopia to you himself:

For 40 years, neoliberals lived in a world of denial and indifference to the suffering of poor and working people and obsessed with the spectacle of success.

[SHRED]

56. Yeah...tRump is really going to help...

...and think of how POC will flourish under his reign.

[JNelson6563]

38. I was struck by a point during the GE.

All these newspapers, traditionally conservative, many long-time critics (Michael Moore for instance) all came out for Hillary when it was time to announce and it was as though all the piling on for the last 30 hadn't happened or something.

When Moore said Hillary will lose I thought well what a surprise! 30 years of baseless attacks actually worked!1!

I say fuck all of 'em.

[Douglas Kawasaki]

39. Greenwald has to help the man who's giving his best friend assylym (Putin/Snowden)

It's normal.

[sellitman]

40. You guys and your circular firing squad

Make me sick.

If this is what this site has turned into you can have it.

Bigger fish to fry.

[Tanuki]

50. Enjoy your fried fish, then. You said long ago you quit the Democratic Party

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027785297

[SHRED]

55. Well looky there will ya

[sellitman]

57. You are correct. I quit in a fit of rage.

I also realized that rage was misplaced and rejoined shortly afterwards. I also voted for Hillary in the General.

That though has nothing to do with this place shooting it's own.

But I suspect you knew that.

[SHRED]

61. If the people I listed are "our own"...

...then how do you explain their continued Hillary bashing?

[sellitman]

65. Define bashing.

What you consider bashing is subjective. Clearly she didn't please many here on the left.

The reality based Democrats voted the only way they knew how. The only candidate who had a chance to avert disaster.

[Skittles]

75. he did not stand a chance either

people living in reality know that

[stevenleser]

71. Don't play the game of defining what bashing means. They know full well. They wanted to do

so much of it, they went to another website where it was unrestricted.

[MineralMan]

44. They also consistently trashed President Obama during both

terms, often using "damning with faint praise," ignoring real progress he made. Their goals were to create fear, uncertainty and doubt, about our President and, by extension, the Democratic Party. I imagine they are gloating now, but I won't see it. Now that they are no longer on DU, at least with their well-known screen names, I can avoid them. Another was Manny Goldstein, whoever he might be in real life. A relatively clever writer, he built a strong network of followers here and helped to suppress more rational, serious DUers.

Now, he's off running an splinter website, JPR, where one hopes he stays.

None of those people are actually progressives, but are more or less skilled at pretending to be.

[mcar]

48. K&R

Some things are just not forgiveable.

I'm sorry for your healthcare worries, SHRED. So many will face it.

I have two sons of draft age. You can guess where my worries are.

[SHRED]

60. I worry for us all

I hope we don't get into another big war.

[mcar]

62. It terrifies me

Along with healthcare, Medicare, the environment, women's health rights, minority rights, voting rights..............

[Gothmog]

58. Great post

[robbedvoter]

63. Greenwald helped unleash Snowden. He is Assange's buddy too

Both these guys are now used by Putin to throw the German election to right wingers (Nazis). He supported the war in Iraq, then, just like his friend Trump, accuses everyone and their brother of being neocon. He was never an ally of anyone but Greenwald.

[G_j]

64. I see DU is more productive than ever... nt

[canetoad]

67. LOL Will Pitt

I remember Fitzmas.

[madokie]

68. Pitt lost me with his used car salesman twaddle

[randome]

70. They lead small and bitter lives and their writings show it.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[JHan]

76. I feel the same rage but I keep telling myself:

There will always be contrarians and idiots running silly blogs and pontificating from FB pages. I occasionally read Greenwald, sometimes he makes good points sometimes not. I don't know who the other people are..

I also refuse to drink tea for Cornel West's Obama fever.

I reserve my anger for voters -low information voters. The sickening learned helplessness that is so pervasive which makes people treat their votes like it's nothing. This year voting for a third candidate was the most insane option and yet so many did and risked losing every bit of progress we made - and all because they surrendered their intellect to BS. I don't know what to do about voters who don't engage and question and think beyond the simple. We complain about politics and then act in ways which makes us vulnerable to con men, and then complain about politics , and the vicious cycle continues. I don't even know how you fix this, because no Politician is coming to save us, we have to save ourselves.