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MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:49 AM Dec 2016

The US Intelligence Community Is Not Liberal!

It has never been liberal. the NSA, CIA, DIA and various other intelligence agencies you probably wouldn't recognize are generally not aligned with any political party. Instead, they are pretty much tied closely to the military and are rather incestuous in organization and loyalties. Their job is to collect information about foreign government activities, and operate pretty much independently of whatever administration is in power.

If anything, there is a conservative bias that permeates them all. They're suspicious by nature and engage in the collection of intelligence information worldwide. Yes, they focus on governments and military organizations of nations who are not deemed to be friends of the USA, but their snooping doesn't end there. Not at all.

The major agencies are competitive, rather than cooperative with each other, and all are skeptical about the FBI, which is our civilian, internal intelligence agency. At times, that competitiveness has led to disagreements on analysis of information, and sharing of intelligence gathered by each agency with other agencies is spotty.

All of those agencies report, in one way or another, to the President. Sometimes that reporting is not direct, but passes through an administration's Director of National Intelligence. Presidents get intelligence briefings and analyses, but almost never get complete information about how the intelligence was gathered or analyzed. Instead, Presidents get some sort of overview, but without details.

I know this to be true, because I worked at one time at the NSA, while in the USAF. I was there during one President's initial tour of that agency and know what was discussed and what was never mentioned at the briefing I attended as a sort of mouse in the corner, since my role was minuscule. But I was there, and was even introduced to the President.

Bottom line, really, is that the intelligence agencies are not particularly trusting of anyone. Not the President and his staff. Not the person appointed by any President to oversee their operations. Not Congress. Not any nation that is not the USA. Not even other intelligence agencies, foreign or domestic. However, if all of them agree that something is happening, you can take it to the bank that that something is, indeed, happening.

If Donald Trump actually takes office, he will likely be the least trusted President ever by the intelligence agencies. The President does not control what information he receives. The agencies control what information a President is given. If they believe he should not receive information, he will not receive it. That is how it works.

Here's the deal. If the intelligence agencies say the Russians meddled with the election through hacking and data theft, it is true. So far, 17 agencies have indicated that it happened. It happened. Donald Trump doesn't like intelligence briefings. That will suit the various agencies just fine, I think. They aren't going to trust someone with ties to a government that is one the the least trusted on the planet by those agencies.

And that's my assessment, without further information provided, due to restrictions that are still in force. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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FuzzyRabbit

(1,967 posts)
2. The workings of the government are beyond Trump's comprehension.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:36 PM
Dec 2016

Trump doesn't believe the intelligence agencies. He gets all his knowledge from fake news on Twitter and reality TV.

SharonAnn

(13,772 posts)
16. Dunning-Kruger effect: Simply, it's "people who are too stupid to know how stupid they are".
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:56 PM
Dec 2016

In simple words it's "people who are too stupid to know how stupid they are".

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
4. According to Adam Schiff the problem is that Americans will not trust what Trump says
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:30 PM
Dec 2016

even if it's crucial that they do.

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
5. Why on Earth would anyone trust anything Trump says
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:33 PM
Dec 2016

about anything? If his mouth is moving, he's either lying or talking out of his ass ventriloquistically. The other option is that Vladimir Putin is not only working the strings but is also a skilled ventriloquist.

Nobody should ever trust anything that orange haired marmot says. Nobody.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
6. Because in the case of a terrorist attack
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:34 PM
Dec 2016

or a huge natural disaster someone must lead.

If no one listens to him or believes him that spells chaos

Who would take over? The Breitbart guy?

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
11. Pence
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:23 PM
Dec 2016

his politics are probably even more reprehensible than Trump, but I would guess he'd be the one running the day-to-day operations. Trump will do photo ops and try to associate himself with any potential good news and bash anything and anybody that associates Trump with anything negative.

uponit7771

(90,336 posts)
8. This is my understanding from people who've worked US intel, if there's a theme about what they..
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:43 PM
Dec 2016

... think to be true then its very close to true.

If 16 of 17 think its a sure thing then most likely it should be acted on...

Benedict Donald and is Band Of Bigots will not be trusted by most Americans nor the intel agencies

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
9. Almost no Americans, including our elected officials,
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:56 PM
Dec 2016

have much of a clue about how our intelligence agencies collect information or how that information is analyzed. They think its some sort of James Bond-style stuff, which couldn't be farther from the truth in most situations. While flesh and blood spies exist, they're too costly and ineffective for most intelligence gathering.

These days, it's mostly data collection and data mining, and is done by some of the best database analysts and programmers available. All of the agencies recruit very heavily at our top Computer Science schools and pay handsomely for very talented and creative people. They're also interested in accomplished hackers and recruit within that community as well.

The collection of raw data to feed those databases is very different than it once was, back in the late 1960s when I was involved in that stuff. Analysis techniques, too, have changed enormously. Where analysis was once done by people with genius intelligence, phenomenal memories and wicked intuitive skills, it's more of a data mining thing these days. The top human analysts now have much better data to work with. They still have the same skills, but use them differently than they once did.

It's very interesting. I follow it, albeit from the outside and with limited information, but things have improved even in the past couple of decades. Technology has enabled the accumulation of massive amounts of data, which can be pre-analyzed using hugely sophisticated algorithms. Today, the intelligence community competes with data companies like Google for the best talent. What is possible now could not even be imagined 30 years ago.

Fascinating stuff. I'd love to have better access, but that ain't gonna happen.

moondust

(19,981 posts)
10. While on the subject of intelligence...
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:10 PM
Dec 2016

do you have a theory on what went wrong with the intelligence on WMD in Iraq? Did they really believe the mushroom cloud stuff? Did the intel people know the truth and "Slam Dunk" Tenet lied to please his bosses and the MIC?

U.N.: No Iraq WMD Since '94

If that report is true then there wouldn't have been any significant WMD intelligence produced after the mid 1990s, right? If a department store or factory goes out of business and closes then trucks stop showing up there to deliver things, employees no longer show up for work, and customers no longer show up there to shop.

Somebody down in the agencies had to know the truth since they had no recent WMD intelligence after the mid 1990s, right?

What happened?

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
12. look up the short-lived Office of Special Plans
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:28 PM
Dec 2016

It was not a consensus of US intelligence at the time - the OSP manipulated the intel to make it look like there were WMD in Iraq and then fed that to Sr White House people - Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rummy, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

MineralMan

(146,307 posts)
13. I don't know what happened.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:28 PM
Dec 2016

I was long out of that stuff. Part of the problem at the time was a lack of cooperation between the agencies. There was little communication. Another part, possibly was that GWB wanted something he could use to attack in Iraq. His reasons for doing so had little to do with anything significant. It was more to show off for his father.

Knowing whether there were WMD's in Iraq would have required human collateral on the ground there that could gather the information. We're lousy at putting people in the field in the Middle East. We didn't have people who can blend into that environment in our intelligence services. So, the available information was gathered second and third hand from people we had no way to properly vet.

Given Bush's interest in finding "WMDs" in Iraq, I can see how local sources there would feel encouraged to report what their contacts wanted to hear. Since we couldn't really verify who those people were, due to our lack of actual human resources in Iraq, contact people heard a lot of bullshit from people who were being paid to provide information.

We did satellite and air reconnaissance, but that is limited in identifying things, unless they are out in the open and can be seen. Finally, people who were trying to please Bush were giving him what he wanted to hear. That's not untypical at those levels. GWB wanted to attack. He insisted on information he could use, and some people gave him what he wanted.

Intelligence isn't foolproof, nor are the people who interact with political leaders necessarily truthful or willing to say, "No, Mr. President, there aren't any fucking WMDs in Iraq." So, WMDs were found, or at least evidence was interpreted to show that they existed, or that there was a probability that they existed.

Lots of lies. Lots of half-truths. Lots of false information from contacts in Iraq. It was a clusterfuck. Bush listened only to those who told him what he wanted to hear, and took the action he had already decided to take.

I think things may have improved somewhat, but intelligence agencies are still more competitive than cooperative. We still don't have human intelligence we can trust in the Middle East, because we don't trust the people who could be those sources.

We're hopelessly incompetent in the Middle East. We really have no way of infiltrating there. We don't even trust people who speak the language with native fluency. It's an impossible situation. So we rely on unreliable sources, electronic information, data mining and other methods, but those can't be confirmed. Mistakes are being made constantly in that region. We should not be messing around there, because we have no idea what we are doing.

moondust

(19,981 posts)
14. Seems to me
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:33 PM
Dec 2016

that as the WMD programs were shut down the electronic and satellite intelligence on them would have slowed possibly to a trickle and that should have tipped off somebody if they were paying attention. And somebody was apparently paying attention since Clinton sent some cruise missiles in there as late as 1998.

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