Jesus Christ Sanders are you serious???

[thejoker123]

I heard right here in DU that Bernie sanders was doing a town hall on MSNBC so I turned it on. First time I put on any cable news station since the election.

So Sanders is in a room of UNION WORKERS that supposedly includes a bunch of Trump voters and he totally normalized Trump. I can't believe it. He more or less downplaying everything trump did and said, who he is, and made him out to be basically an outsider that "desperate people" latched on to because he was their only hope.

It was literally sickening. I watched 10 minutes and turned it off.

Amazing, this is exactly why I turned off the TV on election night, because I knew I wouldn't be able to handle the normalization of Trump and the liberal hand wringing about how Trump is the lefts fault...and sure enough, I take a chance tonight since it was Sanders and BOOM, like a shot in the gut.

[flamingdem]

1. Damn these folks are not very bright

I don't believe that $10,000 deductible

[thejoker123]

2. All I know is

Those were union workers!!! Bernie should have stood up and said, "You voted for Trump? Are you fucking people insane? Where the fuck have you been the last 40 years???? Do you not know that Republicans would take away your Union TODAY...TODAY(!!!) if they could??? They are your mortal enemy!!!! And you just handed them total control of your government!!!"

[flamingdem]

6. He has been hearing their views for months now and he's immune

To his credit he's trying to reach them. Soon enough they'll see the mistake they made, they'll hurt for it

[Maru Kitteh]

13. Fat lot of good. Trying to "listen" and "be reasonable" and waiting for these SHMOES to

realize they've shit in their own bed by voting for Republicans has landed us in a handbasket full of deplorables on our way to hell.

We need to play dirty. We need to get mad. We need to get loud and call pukes out for exactly what they are. No more worrying about anyone's precious little white-nationalist feelings.

[flamingdem]

24. I agree, what do you think Bernie is trying to accomplish with this?

He still believes it's the economy .. not teh stupid - and deplorable

[annabanana]

32. I think he's changing minds

and highlighting where there's agreement.

[Maru Kitteh]

38. I think it has a least something to do with his book sales.

I don't find it very helpful for much else right now. Perhaps ahead of the mid-terms but right now, it's all but useless, imo.

[MADem]

90. That book was supposed to be a counterpoint to the Clinton victory.

A "take her down a notch" effort to push the Clinton administration further left.

Instead, who's buying it? We're all sitting well to the right of Attila the Hun, with a puppet President Elect answering to a dictator in Moscow.

We've got far bigger fish to fry.

I haven't heard that it's flying off the shelves...

[George II]

42. He's not going to "reach" them that way.

[MADem]

86. He's wasting his time, and tarnishing his brand.

He should have just walked away from that whole "white working man" stuff.

They voted for Nixon and got screwed; they voted for Reagan and got screwed. They voted for Trump and they'll get screwed again.

It's almost like they ENJOY their misery; that they believe they'll strike it rich one day, and they don't want to give away "their" money (the money they'll never have) to help those "moochers" (who are people JUST LIKE THEM, only they might be black or brown).

Can't tell people what to do, though--they'll just have to learn on their own. Even if they never seem to get it.

Maybe the next generation....

[0rganism]

136. they'll hurt for their mistake, and blame minorities for their pain

expect it
this is the fragmentation of the Democratic coalition in progress

[Dustlawyer]

52. He explained to these brainwashed mental lightweights that the reason we

cannot afford tuition free college, increase in minimum wage and universal healthcare is that the CEO's and big corporations are making more money than ever and not paying taxes. That message may reach a few of them, but yelling at them and calling them idiots probably not so much.

These people have been conditioned to think the way they do by the RW media. They are so angry and afraid that they cannot listen to reason.

[Maru Kitteh]

80. Then why would they listen to yours?

Fuck their widdle white-nationalist "feelings."

Sucking up to those racist pricks, waiting for them to suddenly wake up and realize they shit in their own nest every time the vote Republican has us on a journey straight to hell with a handbasket full of deplorables.

Enough. We need to get loud, dirty and nasty. We need to call the GOP out for exactly what they are. To hell with their precious little feelings.

[Dustlawyer]

89. This discussion showed a few million Americans some of the realities of Trump.

I think it showcased Bernie and his self control to deal with the stupid. Those people will have to learn the hard way when it's their ox being gored. The real battle is to keep the blame where it belongs

[thejoker123]

92. Maybe 1 million....liberals.

[MADem]

94. How many Trump supporters are watching this, do you suppose?

Friends of the people on the screen--and that's it.

The rest are probably watching sitcoms or sports.

[karynnj]

143. Read what you wrote and ask yourself what YOU would have thought if you were one of them

I agree that nothing Trump is likely to do will help them in any way and many things will hurt them. However what you wanted Bernie to do is to attack them and essentially call them idiots. Had he done that, do you imagine they would have suddenly seen the light and realized that they made a huge mistake?

If you had listened longer, you would have seen points where - AFTER LISTENING - he explained that the Republicans are the party that want to change SS, Medicare and medicaid in a bad way. This is a man who has a reputation for meeting with and listening to the people that he represents. By listening and not attacking them, he is able to provide information on things that they are concerned about. I live in Vermont and Sanders is one of my Senators and they are both solidly on our side.

I understand your anger that this group of people voted against their economic good - fooled by a con man speaking at the end of the campiagn of Democrats not understanding living from pay check to pay check.

I would bet that at least one of the people Bernie interacted with who said she voted for Trump - came out understanding that the Democrats were the ones fighting for social programs. She oddly thought that Trump "listened" to people like her and the Democrats including Hillary did not listen to her. I wish she would have been asked about earlier votes. The Politico article today on the campaign speaks of the campaign not doing the typical door to door canvassing or mail drops. Could that have made it seem they were written off? It is worth listening and looking into what happened here because Michigan and Wisconsin clearly did not vote as expected in either the primary or general election. Consider that Democrats won in 2012 and even in 2004 when Bush was an incumbent who started 2003 at 60% approval. Something changed in 2016. It is worth knowing if it was Hillary, the type of campaign waged, Trump or a fundamental change in the ideology in the rust belt.

Without learning from this year, we will not know how to do better in the future.

[MontanaMama]

117. Believe it.

We're a self employed family of three. Before the ACA, our annual deductibles ranged from $6000 to $12,000....again, I emphasize that this was before the ACA. We had two good years with the ACA and now, for 2017, we will pay between $1800-$2100 premium per month for a $6000 annual deductible. We can pay more monthly premium and get our deductible down to $3000 but our monthly premium is already way more than our fucking mortgage. Insurance is a scam. Believe it.

[flamingdem]

137. I get that some people get hosed by ACA

and would be better off with a plan through work.

But Trump isn't going to fix any of that anytime soon and will destroy healthcare for millions who are helped under ACA

The idea was to fix it and it needed fixing but without the Republicans in support costs soared

[MontanaMama]

145. When you're self employed you can't get a "plan"

and be better off through work! People need to understand that. While the ACA wasn't/isn't perfect, it is far better than what we had or to be more accurate, didn't have, before. AND the ACA made it possible for us to get insurance for our employees. No Trump isn't going to fix anything and he will most likely take it away.

[madaboutharry]

3. Critical thinking skills are not in the mix.

It is hard to watch people talk when they are coming from a place of complete ignorance. I turned it off.

[kimbutgar]

4. My husband insisted we watch it, first time I watched MSNBC since election night

I want to scream and throw stuff at the tv while hearing these Dumb ass orange hitler supporters. The woman saying the healthcare system is messed up, doesn't she realize that her governor refused to set up exchanges? The other stupid woman saying the country needs business and orange hitler is a businessman who is successful. Has she been paying attention to who he's putting in his cabinet?

I was a Bernie supporter but am disappointed in him right now.

This is so gross right now listening to stupid people. The show can't end soon enough for me. Ughhhhhhhh!

[thejoker123]

8. I had to turn it off, between Bernie

normalizing Trump and all the shit he's said and done, not to mention either him or Hayes fact checking of explaining why Republicans are the mortal enemy of these voters...it was sickening.

This is why liberals lose over and over and over again.

BTW, I've been an enormous Bernie fan for like 20 years.

[duffyduff]

5. Nothing surprises me about Sanders.

He is still stuck in 1968.

Meanwhile, the country is on the brink of ruin.

[flamingdem]

7. Why do you think he's doing this?

What is the point?

[duffyduff]

9. He needs to worry about the EC,

not this pandering crap to Trump voters, who are still stuck in an alternate universe.

[MADem]

97. He is old and set in his ways.

He came up in a paradigm where men were the bosses, and minorities and women got the crumbs from the feast, and the NICE men gave them not just the crumbs, but the scraps and the leftovers. But it was always the white guys who were the touchstone, the leaders, the deciders, the bosses, and they were the ones who called the tune. Everyone else was supposed to be grateful to be included, and not expect to be actual stakeholders, never mind (gasp) LEADERS.

It's not that way anymore. I think he's having a hard time opening up his POV to give those other voices equal time or even take a back seat to THEIR ideas--he is quite certain that his way is the best way.

[cwydro]

139. Well said.

IMO, Bernie did our party damage.

He's rich and happy.

I hope he goes away forever.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

10. That woman on minimum wage is stupid

in Australia workers at McDonald's earn $16 and hour and a Big Mac costs $4.47, in the US workers make $7.25 and hour and Big Mac costs $4.62.

[Willie Pep]

18. Good point.

A lot of people don't know that. Unfortunately, I think much of the push against a higher minimum wage is the feeling that "burger flippers" don't deserve to be paid more. I have heard that often, including from union members who really should know better.

[thejoker123]

31. BINGO Willie

[SunSeeker]

47. Yup, someone argued with me that no one straight out of high school should get $15/hr.

I was disgusted. But that mindset is common. Indeed several states allow lower minimum wages for teens. The concept of equal pay for equal work eludes these anti-labor folks apparently.

[Willie Pep]

51. There is a misconception that low-wage workers are mostly teenagers.

I see this idea a lot from older people who are thinking about labor conditions from 30 or 40 years ago. Low-wage workers are older than people think.

See: http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/

[thejoker123]

53. Yep and the misconception is largely

by old whites who figure anyone who earns minimum wage is a lazy loser.

[Willie Pep]

61. Exactly right.

You are describing most of the people in my family. I remember my aunt telling me that teenagers don't deserve higher wages. When I tried to point out that most low-wage workers were over 20 she then said they were losers for being that old and not having a better job.

Of course her father didn't have more than a high school education and worked in a good union factory job in the old days and that was never a problem. This is what is so odd to me. You have people who benefited from all kinds of liberal policies in the past but now that they have "made it" to some degree they want to pull up the ladder.

[thejoker123]

72. I know, makes you want to put your head through a wall (eom)

[hollowdweller]

133. You raise an important point. We do not value hard work in the US

It's interesting how even union members sometimes will complain somebody is being paid too much, when some union jobs pay so much because they are union jobs, not the skill level.

We hear a lot about agricultural workers. How they need illegals because "americans won't do those jobs". But maybe a lot of americans are just not in good enough shape to do those jobs??

Why is it that jobs involving physical exertion, which many people can't do are low paid?

I had a friend who was a migrant worker. She was a US citizen. She had to do a lot of traveling and also even in the winter when she was off she went out and exercised every day to stay in shape because unless she maintained a certain level of fitness she couldn't make money doing it. To me it was no difft than a teacher doing continuing education but she made less.

I remember one time they raised the min wage and I was all happy and the guy beside me was complaining that it sucked because that meant he moved down the ladder because the min wage earners were closer to him in pay now. Same guy never complained about some stock trader flipping a switch and making a million dollars with no effort. Or some CEO laying off a bunch of workers and then making a big bonus even though the company wasn't making money.

I applaud what Bernie is doing. Outreach. He's doing the job they gave him.

The examples above show how far we need to go in changing the mindset of people.

When people are as outraged about companies ripping off workers and people making obscene amounts of money just because they have money, without doing any hard work, instead of being upset when their fellow worker gets a raise or some person gets 200 dollars worth of food stamps a month then we'll be making progress.

[Generator]

11. I know two Trump voters personally

They would never vote for Sanders. But one is a neo-Nazi who has lost his mind but lives in a million dollar house. The other also makes very good money but hates Hillary. So whatever with the economic anxiety. Normalizing Trump is the end of America. Bernie should know that. We lost because of so many reasons. But fucking TPP is not what made people lick Trump ass. That is bullshit. Mostly Trump yelled about immigrants and the wall oh and hating everyone that isn't a WHITE MAN. Notice my Trump voters were WHITE MEN.

[dixiegrrrrl]

99. How the hell does a "neo-Nazi who has lost his mind " live in a million dollar house ?????

That is what burns me up.
a LOT of pretty well off Reich wing people, which indicates they must have some brains in order to make the money to spend on high end housing.

[Quixote1818]

12. You don't win people over by saying they were stupid to vote the way they did

Is that how you would have handled it? It would have gone over like a led balloon and they never would have listened to you again.

[NCTraveler]

16. Normalizing Trump is in no way necessary to make that case. Nt

[uponit7771]

34. Right

[thejoker123]

20. Liberals don't win at all

Except on social issues. You ever notice that? You know why that is? Because on those issues we have conviction, we hammer our points home and take no fucking prisoners.

Obviously I would never expect Bernie to use the exact words I did, I was reffering to the attitude and sentiment he should have had towards these unions workers who voted trump.

They need to have some sense smacked into them. As union workers, if liberals can't get through to them, then just pack it in.

[Dustlawyer]

60. We don't win on financial issues because our politicians answer to many of the same donors as

the Republicans. Our Democrats are not "spineless," they are every bit as ambitious as Republicans, its just that the Donors want us to lose on those issues. We allow legal bribery of our elected officials and the media is owned by the Donor's, so what kind of government can we expect?

[potone]

87. Yes.

What Bernie's campaign proved is that it is possible to run a national campaign through small donations made by individuals, not corporate interests. It was the most truly democratic campaign that I have seen in my lifetime, and I am not a sweet young thing.

The DNC wasn't prepared for that possibility, because they long ago gave up on the idea that it was possible to win elections without the support of major corporations and/or Wall Street. We have to go back to our economic roots, without abandoning the social issues that we care about. After all, it is all about basic fairness, and that should not be hard to sell.

The Trump voters will soon have buyer's remorse, if they don't already. In the meantime, I think that we need to pursue the possibility of trying to change the minds of members of the Electoral College. I know that that may sound quixotic, but if Trump is inaugurated, I truly think that we are likely to lose what is left of our democracy. We also are likely to face global warming on a truly catastrophic scale.

I have been paying attention to politics ever since the presidential campaigns of 1968, and I have never been so frightened.

[Dustlawyer]

93. Truly worried on this end as well!

[potone]

100. What can we do?

I'm in Oregon, so my electors will vote for Hillary, but we are so insignificant a state in terms of the Electoral College votes that that doesn't matter much.

I think if nothing else works, we should take it to the streets in the manner that young people did in the 1960s against the Vietnam war. What have we got to lose? I don't want to just passively accept the inauguration of a man that is so blatantly unfit to be president.

[riderinthestorm]

101. +1 nt

[flamingdem]

138. Good reminder of teh achievements of Bernie's campaign

The money he raised through individuals should be lauded intensely and learned from

[brush]

23. How would you do it? Someone certainly needs to break it to union members that repugs . . .

Last edited Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:17 PM - Edit history (1)

are their worst enemies. You would think they'd know that after how Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union and therefore began the destruction of unions everywhere.

Trump will be Reagan ten-fold against unions.

Bernie should have found a way to tell them that. I mean he's the socialist, right, believes in solidarity and organizing against the establishment and all.

[thejoker123]

40. I would have had the audience ask me questions

And with each question, hammer home why they just voted directly against their interest. How they just handed the executioner a gun.

I would have asked why on earth they thought republicans would be better on the issues that effect them than democrats, and then exposed each answer with the facts and the reality, which we all know is squarely on the democratic side.

[standingtall]

121. Politicians cannot do that alone

That is primarily the leadership of a unions job to educate their members and to bridge the gap of racial divisions. Problem is unions have been weakened over the last 30 years and are about to get even weaker due to more republican Governors passing even more right to work laws.

[brush]

122. True, but Democratic politicians when they have an audience of union members should speak up too.

Unions are what we're supposed to be about. FDR pushed through legislation that made collective bargaining possible.

Unions are part of our heritage, can't just let union members talk about supporting a-hole like Trump without some strong pushback, and possible history of what president made unions possible and which president, Reagan, began their dismantling.

[standingtall]

125. FDR passed through legislation that made collective bargaining easier

but it was around long before the new deal. Bernie Sanders hero Eugene V Debs was a major union organizers in the 19th century and a Presidential candidate himself at times. If unions are going to be rebuilt it would probably be a good idea to rediscover some of those old methods given that the other sides has all the power now,but yes politicians should stand up too.

[LenaBaby61]

36. I'd have asked them in a "nice" way ...

WHY they voted for someone in tRump who thinks the Federal Minimum wage was too high in $7.25, then said that maybe it needs to be raised a tiny bit, then said we don't need a minimum wage at all.

Oh, and how can they support a family on LESS than $7.25 per hour amongst other things.
Judging from some of the what a few of those folks said, they'd have probably blamed Pres. Obama for tRump saying that the Federal Minimum wage is too high @ $7.25

Oh dear Wisconsin is a right-to-work state now where they'll be working for slave wages

[octoberlib]

14. It's frustrating because both he and Hayes are letting these people

spout off and not correcting them. A friend from Wisconsin said that Kenosha is Priebus country. This is probably why people are so misinformed but they need to be set straight. Don't just let them spew this crap unchallenged.

[ecstatic]

27. I know right? Why do they keep coddling these folks?

Mind boggling. Smh

[Starry Messenger]

15. I just deleted All In from the DVR rotation

AM Joy and maybe some Maddow is about all I enjoy anymore on the network.

[Barack_America]

17. You prefer the, "you're all fucking idiots", double bird approach?

Interesting tactic. I wonder how it would have gone over.

[thejoker123]

26. How did the nice guy liberal tactic work?

Answer - Republicans control 75% of the states and 100% of the federal government.

Obviously I was being hyperbolic, but playcating these people and normalizing trump to try to win votes is the WORST possible tactic. No clue when liberals are going to figure this out.

[Barack_America]

85. For Bernie? Well?

I've not seen any other Democratic presidential candidates fully embrace liberalism.

[thejoker123]

91. How do you figure?

He lost the primaries by millions of votes.

[Fiendish Thingy]

124. and yet he is still loved and respected by millions

Higher approval ratings than either party's nominee. His approval and respect gets him the ear of millions more, and lots of free media to spread his progressive message. He lives to fight another day, whereas the losing, Third Way, neoliberal corporatists will hopefully fade away forever. (not referring specifically to HRC, but to those in power in the Democratic party who have controlled the party's mostly center-right message/governance for the past 30+ years).

[hollowdweller]

134. We know how it worked.

Clinging to guns and religion hurt, but didn't torpedo Obama.

One upping it with "Basket of Deplorables" did the trick and helped give the election to the GOP

[LenaBaby61]

19. I could only stomach ....

A so much of that .....



Bernie, what the actual F**K was that

[nolabear]

21. I'm still watching. It's still beyond me why he's doing this.

It is a divided audience and he's not getting a completely smooth ride but I hate that he's castigating the Democrats, Obama and Hillary, all the while hitting all the Bernie talking points.

WHY? Why are they doing this?

[LisaM]

29. Because that's what he does.

He did it all during the campaign, maybe a little more under the radar, but still.

[arthritisR_US]

22. I did the same. He was pandering and there for self promoting...

[ecstatic]

25. He's returning to form. And this panel is a f*cking joke!

Looks like Hillary should have tried harder to get the stupid vote.

[still_one]

28. Did these supposed union workers also NOT VOTE FOR RUSS FEINGOLD?

Yeah Ron Johnson. Let's see how that works out for them

[blue cat]

30. I am so glad

That I didn't turn it on.

[bucolic_frolic]

33. Normalizing is a strategy at this point

because it seems reasonable, and when Trump's policies become
known or aired in Congress, it will make Trump seem unreasonable.

Bernie is right on the money, as usual.

[uponit7771]

37. No... they'll blame the failures of their policies on the Democrats like they usually do

[thejoker123]

45. Lol, you knew to American politics?

[bucolic_frolic]

57. That's great

ridicule what you don't understand and don't take the time to think
through the validity of what is stated

Logic and thinking are important. Posturing and legitimacy lend
ballast and cajones to one's credibility. It's a Washington game played
out in public view.

Welcome to DU!

[thejoker123]

68. I was actually serious

I would think you'd have to be new to politics if you think that when republican policies fail miserably the people will "wake up". Lol, I mean we're have you been the last 40 years?

The right will blame the left, and the corporate media will give that narrative all the attention and credibility it wants.

[bucolic_frolic]

77. And I would have to think

that you knew very little about politics to be so ignorant as to not understand
the role of credibility in establishing one's position and gaining the media's ear

There is a point where the two extreme positions on an issue haev made their points
and common sense surfaces and awaken the political middle. It may not have happened
recently, but it does recur at various points. Trump will try to use this strategy as he
tries to solidify support with mainstream traditional Republicans. It might be a good place
to be, as Bernie seems to know, when doubts about Trump's policies surface.

So you see, we are both really approaching the problem from two different directions,
and the certainty and flippant manner in which you dismiss anyone who disagrees with
the first superficial reading of an issue, is not a very comprehensive approach to
public relations and political issues

[thejoker123]

83. Agree to disagree (eom)

[Locrian]

130. absolutely

Once again, Bernie is focused on the end game.

Sure, it may be more fun to watch John Stewart make fun of trump, or call his supporters idiots etc.
Tactics and strategy matter, especially when you're dealing with belief systems that are more "felt" than logical. How many times have we seen studies where people will double down and believe even MORE when you attack them?

Playing it this way is Bernie Judo. Gain a foothold, then use the eventual trump fuck-up to topple them over to reality.

[SunSeeker]

35. K & R

[shraby]

39. You people haven't watched long enough.

You don't turn people around by telling them they are dunderheads. You let them express their concerns, then ask them why they voted for someone who wants to take what they do have and give it to the upper .1%.
One of the trump voters mentioned social security and medicare, that they pay for it themselves. He explained that the bill right now is in the works to cut their ss and medicare.

[flamingdem]

43. Bernie is on point, we have a yuuuge job to educate people

about what their interests really are.

They've been hearing propaganda 24/7 on Fox and right wing radio.

That makes me sad since we can see they are victims of ignorance

[The Wizard]

103. They've been conditioned (brain washed)

to hate everything not Republican.

[thejoker123]

46. I was only referring to the first 15 minutes

If Bernie switched to that approach then great.

[thejoker123]

73. Lol, was a fan of Bernie well before most even heard of him.

[Terry_M]

41. I agree it's painful to watch and listen

What's your suggestion for getting an 22k votes out of wisconsin next presidential election?
What's your suggestion for getting an extra 100k votes out of wisconsin next time Ron Johnson is up in 6 years?

[George II]

44. He just doesn't get it, as though his criticism of Clinton during the primary campaign...

...and his lackluster and sparse campaigning during the general election campaign didn't do enough damage.

BTW, I'm proud of you giving it a try again - I haven't watched a minute of MSNBC or CNN since 11 PM on election night, I just can't do it.

[thejoker123]

48. Lol for me it was around 2am election night (eom)

[LisaM]

49. And his behavior at the convention.

I've said this before, imagine if Hillary had gone to the 2008 convention and sat up in her seat with her arms folded and an angry red frown, glaring at the proceedings the whole time? (I mean, you can't imagine in a way, because that's not who she is, but you get my drift). This doesn't surprise me in the least.

[George II]

54. I couldn't believe his attitude the week of the convention and then his glaring frown....

....at the convention. Told me a lot about his character.

[think]

58. Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned as DNC chair the day before the convention. Any thoughts on that?

[George II]

78. If you start a thread on that topic I'd be happy to give you my thoughts. Deal?

[think]

79. Thanks for your response. /nt

[Eric J in MN]

82. Bernie Sanders' convention speech

Hillary Clinton understands that if someone in this country works 40 hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty.

She understands that we must raise the minimum wage to a living wage!

And she is determined to create millions of new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems and wastewater plants.

But her opponent, Donald Trump, well, he has a very different point of view. He does not support raising the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, a starvation wage.

While Trump believes in huge tax breaks, huge tax breaks for billionaires, he believes that states should actually have the right to lower the minimum wage below $7.25.

Brothers and sisters, this election is about overturning Citizens United!

Citizens United is one of the worst Supreme Court decisions in the history of our country.

That decision allows the wealthiest people in America, like the billionaire Koch brothers...

...to spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying elections and in the process undermine American democracy.

Hillary Clinton will nominate justices to the Supreme Court who are prepared to overturn Citizens United!

And end the movement toward oligarchy that we are seeing in this country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/26/transcript-bernie-sanderss-full-speech-at-the-2016-dnc/?utm_term=.a0d33935916d

[mountain grammy]

108. Yeah, wow, that really put the nail in the coffin.

[Doreen]

50. If you watch more than 10 damn

minutes you will have seen and heard Bernie talking about how bad Trump is and he actually got one of the Trump supporters to answer question the same way a Democrat would. He was being polite in the beginning ( as he always is ) and hearing what the people said then he set them straight. He did not normalize Trump. I watched the whole thing all the way through to hear exactly what he means.

[TonyPDX]

55. Save your breath, Doreen. Their hatred for Bernie is too deep.

I had to laugh at the criticism that his support for Hillary was "lackluster." He campaigned alongside her in 12 states during the last week alone.

[thejoker123]

63. He completely normalized Trump

In the first 15 minutes, completely, it was sickening.

If he was able to make a few good points after cowering to them, great. That's exactly what liberals do, and then pat themselves on the back for being of so bright and rational. And then they get their asses handed to them in nearly every election.

Sanders approach should have been

1) a complete repudiation of Trump on moral, ethical, constitutional, and plain decency grounds. He should shamed the living hell out of those people in as respectful a manner as possible.

2) then when they all cried and said "but we're not racists, sexist pigs, we just want economic help, sanders should have "and tell me exactly how you think you are going to get that with republicans or trump".

He should have been angry, THESE ARE UNION WORKERS!!! His attitude should have been WTF is wrong with you people?

Sure, many would be pissed, but trust me, they'd think about it after. Sanders conviction followed up with the facts would get to them after the fact. You know what doesn't work? The typical liberal appeasement lets play nice and hopefully they'll see the light.

[Doreen]

69. You said you watched 10 minutes then turned it.

I watched the WHOLE thing and he most defiantly did not normalize him.

[thejoker123]

81. Ok I'll watch the late reshowing tonight. So tell me

to save me time, at which point did he

1) Explain everything republicans have done to destroy unions, and explain how a union member voting republican is like a worm inviting a bird over for breakfast?

2) Ask why they thought a billionaire who made his living off GLEEFULLY screwing the little guy, utilizing illegal immigrants, outsourcing jobs, and fucking over the US taxpayer was going to stop them from getting screwed by those same billionaires?

3) Ask all the Christians to raise their hands, and then ask how they voted for a man who is literally a poster child for everything the bible teaches against?

At some point liberals need to learn that telling it like it is, furiously and with conviction, is what wins. Not playing professor nice guy and hoping people will "come around". I mean this has been a losing strategy for 40 years.

[Politicub]

56. It's okay

No one really watches MSNBC anyway.

[BainsBane]

59. Contrast that with his reaction

To the woman in Boston who said she wanted to be the second Latina in the Senate.

Enough said.

[Cha]

116. omg.. that's right. smh

[theglammistress]

62. Still waiting for a statement on the Russian hacking

Did I miss it? Did he denounce the Russian hack yet?

Because I didn't see it on his Twitter. Haven't seen it reported on the news. This disgusts me, but if I missed it, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong.

[TCJ70]

66. Here. From yesterday.

"And once we get the facts, I think we go forward. But the word has got to go out to Russia, any other country on Earth, that we are going to protect our democracy, that cyber-security is very, very dangerous stuff, and we will not tolerate other countries interfering in the democratic process in this country."

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/12/11/gop-russia-woes-worsen-bernie-sanders-speaks-trumps-nonsensical-denial.html

That's just part of the interview.

[think]

67. Sanders: Trump's dismissal of Russian interference 'makes no sense'

Sanders: Trump's dismissal of Russian interference 'makes no sense'

~snip~

This is very serious stuff. I think we go forward. But I don't want to go backwards," Sanders said Sunday on CBS's "Face The Nation."
"We've got to take a hard look at the role that the Russians played in this election process. We'll see where the investigation goes. But for Donald Trump to summarily dismiss all of this makes no sense to me at all...

Read more:
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/309860-sanders-for-trump-to-summarily-dismiss-russian-interference-makes-no-sense

[theglammistress]

71. Fair enough

Thanks. I follow The Hill on Twitter, don't know how I missed this. I refused to watch the Sunday shows this week.

[Martin Eden]

64. If you didn't watch the whole thing, you can't fairly judge it

I was somewhat appalled in the early going as well, but what Sanders did here was not unlike what Michael moore did in his Trumpland film -- the first order of business is to connect with the audience by letting them express themselves and validating the concerns that are legitimate. Then through questions and answers you bring them around to see things from a perspective they perhaps hadn't considered before.

If you had watched only the 2nd half of this meeting you likely would have come away with an entirely different impression. He was dispelling the Trump lies.

I think Bernie could have done a better job in this "town hall" just as he could have made a better case during the campaign, but he was trying to do something that needs to be done to revive the electoral prospects for the Democratic Party -- connect with the lost voters on a personal level; talk with them rather than down to them; and bring them along to a better understanding of what really needs to be done for Americans who are struggling economically.

[kentuck]

65. I don't think this is the appropriate time ...

I think saving the union is more important than a debate about $15 dollar minimum wage, at this time.

At this time...

[Sunlei]

75. Thank God for Sanders, if not for him NO ONE will ask Republicans any questions. "joker"

[elmac]

76. You know, this circular firing squad is just what putin fascists like

ready, aim, FIRE!

[thejoker123]

88. You mean the ones

Who now control 75% of the states and 100% of the federal government?

If those vile anti-worker, racist, sexist pukes can pull that off, imagine what liberals could do if we were equally passionate and held our leaders accountable while being on the right side of nearly every issue.

[bullwinkle428]

84. Jen Palmieri, Hillary's communications director, just described the town hall as "terrific"

in her interview with Rachel Maddow.

[SMC22307]

146. LOL, ah, that's great.

More town halls and voter outreach, please.

[Fiendish Thingy]

95. Nope- as Van Jones is trying, Bernie is normalizing the suffering of the working class

Not Trump. Bernie is showing that he "gets it", when it comes to people's suffering. He understands that many thought Trump would be better at alleviating their suffering, but doesn't agree with them. He is astute enough to know that these Trump voters won't even consider a Dem/progressive Candidate in 2018 or 2020, if the Dems spend the next four years calling them "fucking idiots".

[thejoker123]

98. Yep, historically playing nice has always beaten fascists

[Fiendish Thingy]

114. Are you insinuating all Trump voters are fascists?

You wouldn't welcome 2016 Trump voters if it meant winning back the White House in 2020?

[thejoker123]

119. our problems run so much deeper

than the White House. Repubs control 75% of the states and the whole fed government.

And no, all trump voters aren't fascist just like all Hitler supporters at first were for killing Jews. And once they realized the truth, it was too late. Shame so many were too afraid to speak up sooner and instead tried to rationally win them over.

[flying-skeleton]

96. Sanders just reminded me ....

Sanders just reminded me why Democrats did not vote for him and chose to back Hillary instead.

[Larkspur]

112. HRC lost the general election to Donald Trump who was outspent by HRC 2 to 1

HRC raised $1.2 billion for this campaign, the most any campaign has ever raised, and still she could not defeat Donald Trump.

[MADem]

118. If you factor in all the free media that Trump got, the "value" of Trump's campaign greatly

exceeded HRC's.

All the cable newsers covered his rallies from start to finish. That's a LOT of free media.

[Warpy]

102. Sanders is not a stupid man. He's quite wily

and knows that telling the truth about Twittler right out of the gate would put everybody on the defensive and he'd get nowhere.

My guess is that he was encouraging them to tell the truth about Twittler.

I do agree about keeping the "news" shut off. They have failed this country completely by giving Twittler all the free air time he could ever wish for while barely acknowledging Clinton was in the race until Comey came out with his treasonous interference.

[Flatpicker]

104. End of the day

Unless something miraculous happens, we have an R controlled US to deal with.
If we don't normalize the dialog at official levels, we destabilize our situation with the rest of the world. Trump is terrible, but letting the world know that we have a split opinion at the governmental level will do us no good.

That's one of the reasons we had such issues with the Congress' note re: Iran deal. It makes us look as if we are a banana republic in the eyes of other nations.

That's worse than being wrongheaded.

Bernie can either rail against it and be marginalized/ignored, or face it and try to make incremental headway.

He's choosing the option that he feels will be better in the end. I don't always agree, but I can understand it.


It's up to the younger generation to make the noise. Nations can deal with civil protest, it's seen as ok to other Nations.
When the leadership has a split, then others get nervous. We're too heavily armed to be taken lightly if others think we are in a unstable situation.

[Ghost OF Trotsky]

105. Simple fact: you are not going to change anybody's mind

by yelling "YOU FUCKING STUPID SHIT! YOU SCREWED YOURSELF VOTING FOR THAT CHEETO FACED NAZI CRAPWEASAL"

No matter how stupid they were, no matter how right you are, you do NOT change people's minds by telling them they have been stupid or evil. If you want to get your rocks off screaming "I told you so" at deplorables fine and dandy, but all you're doing (the generic, 'you' obviously, not the joker or any poster in specific) is causing them to double down. Simple psychology.

[thejoker123]

109. Do you know why liberals win

on social issues?

Because we have a zero tolerance, pounce and shame approach.

Republicans control this entire country because on all other issues, liberals continually think that since the facts are on their side, being nice and reasonable and biting our tongue will eventually win people over.

It boggles my mind that so many on my side haven't learned this lesson yet.

Trump won because most people in this country literally thought either he was better on the issues or that Hillary was NO better.

That's what decades of playing nice has gotten us.

[standingtall]

127. On point

Just wonder what would've happened if abolitionist refused to call owning slaves evil? Then we would probably still have slavery today?

[pnwmom]

126. There is a medium ground between normalizing DT and screaming at his supporters,

and that's where Bernie should have been.

[Lotusflower70]

106. I thought it was interesting actually

He is still trying to reach out. We can yell, rant and rave all we want but how does that help? Ok maybe it's cathartic but it doesn't move us forward. There is a division in the Democratic party and there are disagreements on why the election went the other way and what to do now. So until we figure that out, we are going to keep spinning and spinning. And I didn't see him normalize Trump at all. He voiced his concerns as well as hearing the concerns of others.

[thejoker123]

111. Bernie is the reason

Hillary is the last of the old school corporate democrat. Sanders progressivism is the future.

Im not happy with how he's done everything, including tonight, but blaming him for HillRy losing to Trump is absurd. He energized millions more than he turned off. He was a huge net plus for Hillary in the end, especially with millennials. No way she gets the 2nd most votes in POTUS election history without Sanders firing up the base.

[Larkspur]

110. It was an excellent town hall by Sanders

The point of this town hall was to listen to the people of Kenosha and to those who voted for Trump. Some of those Trump voters voted for Obama previously.

Listening to voters, not dictating to them how they should vote or saying they are stupid to vote for the opponent, is what candidates are suppose to do before pitching their ideas to the electorate. Campaigns are sales campaigns and candidates are the product being sold in Prez elections.

This town hall was to give Democrats the chance to listen to why voters in WI turned WI red this year. Remember, HRC did NOT campaign in WI. Considering she raised $1.2 billion for this campaign, you'd think she could have afforded to make a few stops in WI.

[LAS14]

113. Yes, we need more of this. Knowledge is power. You don't get knowledge...

... unless you listen.

[DemocraticWing]

120. He spent that town hall dragging these people out of the darkness, educating them.

Persuasion is a key tactic in politics, because voters are persuadable. The Democrats want him doing that, since they appointed him head of outreach.

[flamingdem]

123. In the end I understood the Bernie is very profound and realizes

that there really is hope if we educate and communicate

[CentralMass]

128. Here is a link so that you can watch it for yourselves

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/bernie-sanders-set-appear-kenosha-town-hall/95345904/&ved=0ahUKEwjqoLaMx_DQAhVqy1QKHUbxCEgQqOcBCBowAA&usg=AFQjCNE41YXKpXVXUueRVPnaX8l5tN3W3Q&sig2=X9lWXo8EvYtG4M1SPVkD2w

Or s link to the entire show.

I think Bernie did a great job, as usual

[DemocratSinceBirth]

129. If Trump voters deserve to be normalized...

If Trump voters deserve to be normalized so do the voters who gave Hitler and his National Socialist party a plurality in the 1933 German federal elections.

[MrScorpio]

131. If you're looking for a revolutionary, you're not going to find in the realm of American politics

You're going to have to look in the streets.

[DeminPennswoods]

132. I watched toward the end

Bernie was doing some good active listening and then asking questions leading the Trump voters to understand why their way of life was changed or changing. I think overall it was a good forum.

[azmom]

135. My republican Hispanic friend is a huge Bernie fan.

She is pro-life and has always voted republican because of this one issue.

Along came Bernie and all that went out of the window.

[Cha]

140. ..

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-trump-won-because-people-are-tired-of-politically-correct-rhetoric/

[colsohlibgal]

141. Some Of Those People Were What Bothered Me

More that a few of them were dumber than a mud fence. Like the lady who said we could not pay McDonald workers 15 an hour because then the food would be way more expensive. It obviously did not occur to her that maybe the owner and top execs could get by on a bit less.

Then there was the dude who just wanted change so apparently he would have voted for Ted Bundy had he run against HRC.

I thought Bernie was more patient than I would have been but in the end he did OK.

[Gothmog]

142. Sanders position in this town hall is really dumb and wrong

[Skittles]

144. he is proving why I never "Felt the Bern"

ugh