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Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:04 PM

 

Socialism

It won't be socialism that comes to decimate our veteran health benefits and retirements, our Social Security and Medicare, our public employee retirements, our social safety nets,...through privatization.

No, it will be capitalism via the Wall St investor-class hungry for wider profit margins feeding at the public money trough.
That is who wants their hands on our public Commons. Our tax dollar pool.

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Socialism (Original post)
SHRED Dec 2016 OP
BSdetect Dec 2016 #1
yurbud Dec 2016 #19
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #2
SHRED Dec 2016 #4
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #5
SHRED Dec 2016 #7
guillaumeb Dec 2016 #8
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #9
guillaumeb Dec 2016 #11
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #12
guillaumeb Dec 2016 #16
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #20
moda253 Dec 2016 #22
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #23
LanternWaste Dec 2016 #17
ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #18
BainsBane Dec 2016 #3
world wide wally Dec 2016 #6
brooklynite Dec 2016 #10
SHRED Dec 2016 #13
brooklynite Dec 2016 #14
HughBeaumont Dec 2016 #15
deaniac21 Dec 2016 #21

Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:08 PM

1. Remember W wanted to privatize Soc Sec?

We dodged that bullet when he fucked the entire economy

Lucky us.

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Response to BSdetect (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 03:15 PM

19. It took a lot of the Democratic Party base SCREAMING at Democratic pols and melting the phones

to get them to fight it after years of rolling over for Bush, but that was the move that broke him.

If Ryan started on that, he would cripple Trump and had at least House to Dems in 2018.

If that happened, I would hope the Democrats don't fall into the same timidity and incrementalism they did when they took back Congress in 2006.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:10 PM

2. It's a word ...

... we ought to avoid in describing ourselves. Too many negative connotations left over from the Cold War and it is largely embraced by radicals who like to wear Guy Fawkes masks and scream at people.

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:12 PM

4. I didn't see in my post...

 

...where I described us as socialists although I don't have a problem with the word.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:17 PM

5. I was just commenting in general because it was in quotes ...

... which lead me to believe we're talking about the word itself.

Socialism itself hasn't harmed America nearly as much as unrestrained capitalism, but capitalism kind of owns the dialogue. When I studied economics back in the day, they told us to avoid thinking of the economy in terms of capitalism vs. communism and think of it as market vs. command. Market being you spent money how you wanted and command is that you are told how to spend it ... socialism doesn't really factor in at all.

But for the old timers, socialism is just another word for communism. Never got the unwillingness to understand definitions.

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:25 PM

7. Yeah I'll remove the quotes

 

Thanks

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:55 PM

8. The VA is just one example of how socialism works.

The US Postal Service is another,
as are police and fire departments.
And publicly owned utilities.
The problem is not with socialism as a concept, it is that the 1% have framed socialism as equal to communism as it was practiced in the USSR.

The only US system with heavy negative connotations is capitalism.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:05 PM

9. Problem isn't the concept ...

... we should just avoid using it. There's no point in trying to win people over with intellectual arguments as to why it's not a bad thing.

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:26 PM

11. The GOP wins in part because it successfully frames the issues.

We must fight both their message and their framing.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:37 PM

12. Intellectual arguments just cause regular people's ...

... eyes to glaze over. Best to stick to what is simple. The average IQ in the US is in the mid-90s, so we should frame our argument somewhere within the 7-9th grade range.

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 02:37 PM

16. But at the same time that we appeal to the average, we must

also convince the above average because voter participation generally rises as does intelligence and income.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 03:16 PM

20. The average will always outnumber the above average ...

... that's just a fact of life. Trying to persuade people with intellectual discussions is just simply a loser proposition. People simply do not care about politics and do not want to devote too much time to critical thinking ... that's why they elect people in the first place. We will never be a world of smart people ... just those that have visions, those that implement them, those that maintain them, those that build them and those that benefit from them.

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 04:47 PM

22. Do you have ANY ideas?

 

Man you poo on everything.

What are your ideas and solutions?

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Response to moda253 (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 04:54 PM

23. What did I poo on?

I just pretty much stated what sort of environment we're in. I don't think there's a solution except getting to the cream of the crop first.

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Response to ZoomBubba (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 02:43 PM

17. Acquiescing to the lowest common denominator

Acquiescing to the lowest common denominator allows visceral satisfaction in the short run, yet rarely results in positive change.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 03:04 PM

18. It's not acquiescing to the lowest common denominator ...

... it's adapting to the situation we have before us. People don't vote for intellectuals, they vote for people they like and people who they "get."

Winning is more important than being right at the moment.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:12 PM

3. That's already accomplished

Everything is about to be delivered to them thanks to Trump's election and his pro-privatization appointments.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 12:24 PM

6. Not to mention our highways (get ready to pay tolls to use all highways), National Parks (Camping

in a strip mine), …etc.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:06 PM

10. Capitalism

Should I point out that "our veteran health benefits and retirements, our Social Security and Medicare, our public employee retirements, our social safety nets" were developed under a capitalist economic system?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 01:42 PM

13. In spite of...

 

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Response to SHRED (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 02:10 PM

14. You're entitled to believe that...doesn't change the fact that FDR and LBJ were capitalists.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 02:35 PM

15. It also doesn't change the fact . . .

. . . that we now have a "capitalist"-loaded government that sees no useful value in that social safety net and promises to cut/severely dismantle it.

Want to yell "TIMBERRRRRRRR!!!" or should I?

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2016, 04:42 PM

21. Bears make money

Bulls make money
Pigs get slaughtered

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