Why are some on the left dismissive of Russian hacking and unconcerned about

[seaglass]

ties between Trump's campaign/proposed administration and Russia?

It's not just the U.S. and this election, Germany, Italy and Sweden are all concerned about Russia's intentions.

We have no idea what Trump's financial entanglements with Russia are.

Are they just interested in appeasing Russia to avoid some kind of war? Fear of being outed as useful idiots for publishing the material stolen by Russia? America haters who always think what we do is worse than what anyone else does?

I don't get it.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Who dat?

There are likely a few people who still see Mother Russia as some poor thing needlessly attacked by our evil conservatives, but they always were on the sidelines.

[NCTraveler]

2. I haven't see one person on the left who isn't concerned...

about ties between Trump's campaign/proposed administration and Russia. Not one.

I don't get it.

[seaglass]

5. Well I guess it depends on who is considered left. Former DUers now at another website,

Greenwald and his merry band?

[NCTraveler]

6. I have read that other site and very little of their thoughts appear to be left.

Greenwald is not left.

I do get your point now. Thank you for clearing it up.

The people you mention were invested in Clintons loss every bit as much as Trump Humpers themselves.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. I think the ones who do

Fear the return of the HUAC. I do for one do not. It will be no witch hunt - it will be the real deal.

My father was right (died in August 2012) the Russians were always his greatest threat - and they remain the greatest threat to decent human beings.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. Because they never wanted Hillary in the first place

And now that she's lost they are happy to beat up on her rather than look at factors outside her control like Russians and comey.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. This is bigger than Hillary.

Russia is not our friend and Putin is a piss poor role model for a democratic leader.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. I agree. All of this is bigger than her. Unless you

Have Clinton derangement syndrome.

[Fast Walker 52]

23. that's my take from Facebook discussions on this.

Plus, CIA BAD!!!!

[bettyellen]

33. This. plus they're too embarrassed to admit they were played by RT....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. Yup

[Barack_America]

7. Because some on the left are listening to people being paid by RT.

[Fast Walker 52]

25. I seriously had a FB friend post a news segment from RT where they made fun of the idea of Russian

influence. I mean, come on!!!!

[el_bryanto]

8. I think we've had electoral scandals for a few years now

They all kind of bump up against the same problem; it's hard to actually explain what happened, and even when there is clear evidence of malfeseance (as there was in 2000, for example) it's hard to determine how much effect it actually had. Democrats also do not want to appear as Poor Sports so they tend to concede early these days, which makes it hard to keep the story going.

In a way this goes back to one of the underlying problems in our society; with the option to self select news and reports that support your biases and exclude stories that don't support them, the idea of an actual truth that everybody would have to agree on if presented the facts no longer holds up. I don't know if there's a solution to that problem.

Bryant

[seaglass]

11. I am of course concerned about the effect but taking that out of the equation it seems

that this is a hair-on-fire scenario.

I understand what you are saying about self-selecting news, have you seen any credible reports that it was not Russians that hacked our systems?

[world wide wally]

9. It's a characteristic of the American Democrat to give up easily.

Thank goodness not "all" of them, but too many of them.

[Hoyt]

10. Concerned, but don't see any reason to return to a full-blown Cold War and hatred for Russia.

Besides, it's not like we haven't meddled in elections before and protected American business interests.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. We don't hate Russia.

We hate Putin because he bullies small nations, kills or poisons his political opponents, persecutes our gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender brothers and sisters, and interferes in our election.


I pity anybody who countenances that.

[Hoyt]

13. Except for the LGBT persecution, you've pretty well described us. And there's plenty of persecution

here too, truthfully. Sorry, not much room for us to take the moral high ground here.

[emulatorloo]

14. A+++ for false equivalencies

DSB nailed it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Maybe they persecute LGBT people in your neck of the wood.

Maybe they persecute LGBT people in your neck of the wood. Not so much here in Los Angeles.

And which one of his political opponents did Barack Obama kill or poison?


And yes I will take the moral high ground; liberal democracy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. dictatorship.

[Hoyt]

21. Those who elected Trump sure do; otherwise, they wouldn't have voted for the bigot.

[Hoyt]

22. Although I support Obama 100%, there were drone bombings and we killed Bin Laden, etc.

I'm fine with Binny, but we do our share of what you are trashing Russia for.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Bin Laden is responsible for 3,000 deaths on 9-11.

Comparing that to Putin killing or poisoning his political opponents is akin to saying the Allied powers killed their political opponents at Nuremberg.

[Mika]

16. The LGBT persecutions will rise under a Trump admin. n/t

[LanternWaste]

18. Seems to me that criticism of the action of one government neither endorses nor denies

Seems to me that criticism of the action of one government neither endorses nor denies the actions of another, that the criticism is not predicated on the activities of our own, nor are the criticism of our own government predicated on the actions of other nations.

Knowing that one's own bedroom is dirty does not in fact, invalidate the observation that another room may well be dirty as well.

[Hoyt]

24. True, if you are comfortable with hypocrisy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Our government is nothing like the Russian government or it was.

[ehrnst]

19. Many anti-Hillary lefties are calling it 'red baiting' because they want to be able to claim

that she lost because she wasn't lefty enough.

They also said that about the warnings of a Trump presidency, because they thought that it was meant to deflect attention away from what a "corporatist hawk" she is....

[MineralMan]

20. Not everyone who claims to be on the left

actually is part of anything recognizable as an extension of progressive American viewpoints. As we saw earlier in the year, there were a lot of people who were constantly posting from RT, Greenwald's Intercept and other sources that are more aligned with Russia than with anything else. Some were on the Russians side with regard to Ukraine and other issues, as well.

Then, there were all of those who championed Snowden, Assange and Wikileaks, even when it became clear that all of those were carrying water for Putin and the Russian Federation.

Most of those people are no longer able to post here on DU, so they're posting the same garbage elsewhere, and aren't even pretending any longer to have progressivism in the United States as a goal.

The "left" is a poorly defined coalition of people of wide-ranging points of view. Those even include anarcho-sydicalism, libertarianism and other "isms" that are so far away from Democratic values that they aren't really part of the discussion.

People who constantly attack Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and other Democratic leaders should not be part of the Democratic Party discussion. They're certainly not associated with the Democratic Party. They're somewhere else in the political spectrum, off in the fringes of political thinking.

That's my opinion, of course.

[BainsBane]

26. I think when people devote themselves to attacking the Democratic Party

and making excuses for the GOP, they aren't on the left. Nor are they liberals, progressives, or Democrats.

[Coyotl]

30. Because the likely crinimality in all this isn't Russian, just everyday Republican antics

taken a step further thanks to Manafort and his connections. But, at the end of the day, guess who cut the checks, Trump!

[bettyellen]

32. It's not just Manafort- it's ten others with strong Russian connections.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

31. I'm definitely concerned about it/not dismissive of it in the least

Just not sure what we can/should do about it. Obviously, the dissemination of the Wikileaks DNC e-mails was damaging to her campaign, but there were a lot of other factors that, unfortunately, hurt Hillary and we can rail at Russia all we want in terms of what they did or didn't do to help support Trump's election, but, at the end of the day, we lack any real power to punish Russia for what they did (and Trump certainly won't) and absent proof of hacking/manipulation of actual votes by Russia, there doesn't seem to be a strong enough basis for voiding the election results. With a solidly Republican Congress, there is no apparent remedy for this situation that will put Hillary Clinton into the WH (I'm not even sure if she would want to be President that way). The whole situation sucks with her winning the PV but not getting the EC vote, but there just doesn't seem to be any meaningful response.

[seaglass]

37. I am not looking at an electoral remedy unless it is discovered that the Trump campaign colluded

with Russia. There may be other consequences that are not made public.

This did not just impact Hillary, but Dem House races too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/house-democrats-hacking-dccc.html?smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur

[dawg]

35. They think the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

And we "mainstream Democrats" are who they consider their primary enemy,

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. Yup