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[SoDesuKa]

This message was self-deleted by its author (SoDesuKa) on Fri Dec 30, 2011, 08:29 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[treestar]

1. Hillary would have had the same Congress and same issues to deal with

And things would have turned out pretty much the same.

This is obsession with the Presidency taken to a ridiculous degree.

Also, it is not going to happen. So the purpose of this is just Obama bashing.

[FreakinDJ]

3. Would Hillary jail the Banksters

The economy is stagnet because no one can trust any system that allows such balatent fraud to go unpunished

[Larry Ogg]

41. Beneficiaries of a corrupt monetary system would be hard-pressed to levy justice upon it...

If a fair and just monetary system did exist, socially adjustments according wealth would be a thing of the past, and social adjustments according to ability and conscience would be the norm.

Liberals would become the caretakers of Democracy and peace would break out throughout the world...

In the meantime, conservatives, conservative extremist, and banksters - due to underdeveloped regions of the brain - would be seen as suffering from a form of delusional psychoses that predisposes them to act and think like barbaric Neanderthals, to a lessor and greater degree respectively.

So would Hillary jail the Banksters...? Not in a million years!

[Mr Dixon]

18. LOL

I agree same deal no matter who is in office, the GOP would make sure of that.

[Charlemagne]

73. "And things would have turned out pretty much the same. "

Exactly. The right-wing talking heads used the following to discredit obama:
1. Secret Muslim
2. Kenyan born
3. Black dude
4. J. Wright
5. That UIC professor guy who was in the Weather Underground

Against Hilary, they would use the following arguments:
1. Bill Clinton's baggage
2. Monica
3. Bill's war against serbia that helped radical muslim Kosovo people (especially after a Kosovo dude was one of the guys who plotted to attack that Marine training camp in Carolina....or wherever that was)
4. It takes a village (communism!!!)
5. Her health care thing under clinton
6. Shes a gal
7. She isnt a very attractive gal
8. Only been elected to one office
9. Served only 1.5 terms as a senator
10. The recession would be blamed on Clinton-era policies, and thus her by proxy.


So the ammunition is just as useful for her as it was against obama. The vitriolic dialogue likely would be the same, just different issues.

[treestar]

77. Right!

Thank you! That's a good list.

As first female President, the obstructionism would exist, too. Not going to let that lady beat us! Boner would be even worse.

And to add to that constant implications that Bill was really having a third term (by the same people who claimed Hillary was in charge while Bill was Prez, since a career woman must be a dominating ball buster).

[orpupilofnature57]

2. Why don't we Talk about an Al Gore America?

just as realistic.

[Major Nikon]

39. Or Nader, or Kucinich

If you're going to fantasize, you might as well go all the way.

[liberal N proud]

4. I fully support President Obama

I will vote for him, and work to see that he is reelected in 2012.

No propaganda here or anywhere else will change that.

[Charlemagne]

72. He is our only option

Like it or not, he will be the candidate.

Hillary, someone with the most prestigious role in his administration, usurping him and running as the democratic candidate would be the greatest political coup in the history of American electoral politics.

Neither of them are dumb. There are way too many variables that can make that plan go wrong. Hilary isnt going to risk it.

[Vattel]

103. No propaganda here will make me think Obama has done a good job

but there is absolutely no chance that Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee in 2012. Obama will, I strongly suspect, win a second term and that is much better than a Republican winning. Besides, Clinton is as militaristic as Obama or perhaps even more militaristic. Talk about tweedle dee tweedle dum.

[liberal N proud]

106. I fully support the President

And he will get my vote in 2012. You can post here all day long with negative Obama propaganda, but it will fall on deaf ears.

There is no propaganda claiming Obama has done a good job; only facts. His record speaks for its self, anyone who does not see it, doesn't want to.

[Vattel]

109. That is a ridiculous claim. ("no propaganda claiming Obama has done a good job")

There is propaganda that is pro-Obama and propaganda that is anti-Obama. Making obviously false claims undermines your credibility.

[NNN0LHI]

5. I voted for Hillary during the primary

The right candidate won our Democratic nomination.

Don

[bluestate10]

101. I voted for Hillary and contributed mightily to her campaign.

I even helped pay off her post campaign debt. But, I 100% agree that the better person won the democratic primary. BTW, I am a democrat to the core, when President Obama won, I went lights out for his election.

[mythology]

108. As somebody who supported Obama,

I wouldn't say that the better person won. I'd say that the better candidate in 2008 won the primary. I think both Hillary and Obama were and are highly qualified and competent members of the Democratic party and among the most capable nominees in recent election cycles.

[SidDithers]

6. Keep dreaming...nt

Sid

[TexasProgresive]

7. If you think they hate the "Kenyan Muslim"

They hate Hillary even more. TPTB really wanted her as president because she would so energize their base. Of course Obama did that as well.

[Botany]

8. Why are you trying to stir up crap?

This is a republican "talking point" aimed at trying to cause
unrest with in the Democrats.

"Hillary won't bring all the baggage of Obama's failures with her into the White House."
Karl Rove could have written that line.

[Botany]

52. Do not put bull shit on toast and tell me to "eat up it is just country style apple butter"

I might have been at night but not last night and I can spot your agenda form
100 miles @ night and in a blizzard.

As for base motives when you write ......

"Hillary won't bring all the baggage of Obama's failures* with her into the White House."

... then to me your motives look fairly obvious and they are to stir up problems where
none really do exist. Because Hillary Clinton has announced her retirement in 2012 so
she is not running for President and President Obama has gotten a hell of lot of stuff
done. He, Obama, is hardly a failure.

*
http://planetpov.com/2011/02/13/a-short-list-of-pres-obamas-accomplishments/

A SAMPLE OF CAMPAIGN PROMISES KEPT BY PRESIDENT OBAMA:
No. 4: Extend child tax credits and marriage-penalty fixes
No. 16: Increase minority access to capital
No. 33: Establish a credit card bill of rights
No. 36: Expand loan programs for small businesses
No. 37: Extend the Bush tax cuts for lower incomes
No. 38: Extend the Bush tax cuts for those making less than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 (single)
No. 48: Close the “doughnut hole” in Medicare prescription drug plan
No. 51: Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions
No. 53: Give tax credits to those who need help to pay health premiums
No. 55: Require large employers to contribute to a national health plan
No. 56: Require children to have health insurance coverage
No. 57: Expand eligibility for Medicaid
No. 58: Expand eligibility for State Children’s Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)
No. 63: Require health plans to disclose how much of the premium goes to patient care
No. 65: Establish an independent health institute to provide accurate and objective information
No. 69: In non-competitive markets, force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care
No. 70: Eliminate the higher subsidies to Medicare Advantage plans
No. 93: Reinstate executive order to hire an additional 100,000 federal employees with disabilities within five years.
No. 105: Increase the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health
No. 109: Fully fund the Veterans Administration
No. 113: Expand the Veterans Administration’s number of “centers of excellence” in specialty care
No. 121: Fully fund the Violence Against Women Act
No. 125: Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq
No. 126: Begin removing combat brigades from Iraq
No. 132: No permanent bases in Iraq
No. 161: End the abuse of supplemental budgets for war
No. 167: Make U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional on anti-terror efforts
No. 172: Open “America Houses” in Islamic cities around the globe
No. 182: Allocate Homeland Security funding according to risk
No. 195: Seek verifiable reductions in nuclear stockpiles
No. 196: Extend monitoring and verification provisions of the START I Treaty
No. 197: Stand down nuclear forces to be reduced under the Moscow Treaty
No. 215: Create a rapid response fund for emerging democracies
No. 222: Grant Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send money to Cuba
No. 225: Establish an Energy Partnership for the Americas
No. 229: Expand the Nurse-Family Partnership to all low-income, first-time mothers
No. 239: Release presidential records
No. 241: Require new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.
No. 244: Provide affordable, high-quality child care
No. 247: Recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession
No. 259: Reduce subsidies to private student lenders and protect student borrowers
No. 269: Increase funding for national parks and forests
No. 275: Expand Pell grants for low-income students
No. 290: Push for enactment of Matthew Shepard Act, which expands hate crime law to include sexual orientation and other factors
No. 293: Repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy
No. 315: Establish ‘Promise Neighborhoods’ for areas of concentrated poverty
No. 359: Rebuild schools in New Orleans
No. 371: Fund a major expansion of AmeriCorps
No. 411: Work to overturn Ledbetter vs. Goodyear
No. 422: Create new financial regulations
No. 427: Ban lobbyist gifts to executive employees
No. 433: Sign a “universal” health care bill
No. 435: Create new criminal penalties for mortgage fraud
No. 449: Raise fuel economy standards
No. 458: Invest in all types of alternative energy
No. 483: Invest in public transportation
No. 495: Double federal spending for research on clean fuels
No. 500: Increase funding for the Environmental Protection Agency
No. 507: Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits
No. 513: Reverse restrictions on stem cell research

[MADem]

58. It was GOP money that paid for those robocalls--make no mistake.

Why anyone would try to pin that crap on Hillary, at her age and stage in life, after all of her and her husband's public statements about her future, is beyond me. Makes no damn sense to carry fetid GOP water on a Democratic forum, especially when the claims made have already been shown to be fact-free.

[Cooley Hurd]

9. Lame and totally unworkable.

Fail.

[Odin2005]

10. PUMA crap.

[MADem]

59. If you're suggesting that the people who were ardent supporters of Hillary in 08 would back this

sort of absurd notion, I have to disagree.

I was a Clinton supporter in the primary, and I think that this speculative post is just absurd. Clinton would never knife her boss in the back that way. Never.

And she's already said that her plans for the future don't include government service.

This is either a calculated exercise in getting people upset, or a commentary by someone with a complete lack of understanding about the players and how the process works. Frankly, anyone running for President needed to get their act together a year ago, and that did not happen.

It's just foolishness--uninformed foolishness. Worthy of an eye roll, maybe.

[sufrommich]

62. +1. nt

[bluestate10]

102. I was a big 08 Hillary backer. I prefer President Obama now. No contest. nt

[sendero]

11. HRC..

... is not going to enter the race, period. What a moot point, although I do agree, with 3+ years of hindsight, she would have made a better president than Obama - at least she is not afraid of a fight and policy-wise she's practically Obama's twin.

[moriah]

12. I have two words for you: Ronald Reagan.

That's what we got the last time we challenged a sitting President in the primaries.

Edit to add:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries,_1980

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[JCMach1]

14. +1000

[SixthSense]

17. you have cause and effect mixed up, if you are implying the challenge led to the loss

it was that the loss was so obviously on its way that inspired a challenge

[Major Nikon]

45. The Republican smear machine was working overtime way before the election

Bush Sr's CIA plants were seditiously leaking their erroneous classified reports to the press which claimed a Soviet first strike strategy and that Carter was soft on the reds and was dismantling the military. They were also blaming Nixon and Ford's fucked up monetary policy on Carter claiming he created stagflation.

[Adsos Letter]

55. The Iranian hostage crisis.

There was also that.

[JCMach1]

13. I voted for Hillary in the Primary for exactly the reasons I feel Obama

has not been effective.


However,,,,, Talk of Hillary Clinton doing anything but offering Obama anything but her loyalty at this point is divisive!

Obama is our President and our candidate in 2012. For some, that may not be ideal. But, sometimes you got to dance with those that brung ya'...

I think Hillary understands that... unlike SOME of her supporters.

[slay]

15. I would vote for Hillary over Obama at this point

hell i'd vote for anyone equal to - or more progressive than Obama. he hasn't stood up for us and against the republicans hardly at all over the last 3 years and i don't see that changing.

[ProSense]

23. Hmmmm?

"hell i'd vote for anyone equal to - or more progressive than Obama."

There always seems to be a Clinton angle to the most persistent criticisms of Obama. The Clintonians who just can't let go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100282148

[slay]

78. I voted for Obama in 2008 and in the primaries - and he has been a total disappointment

IMO - so yes - I am more than willing to try a different Dem at this point - even a (gasp) Clinton.

[lamp_shade]

16. So you suspect HRC is behind the robocalls. That says alot. n/t

[ProSense]

24. .

[ProSense]

60. I think

"If you think it "says a lot" that I suspect the robocalls went out with Hillary's knowledge, don't leave us in the dark. Tell us someting about what you think it signifies."

...the robocalls and the people behind them are nuts.

[Charlemagne]

75. You cant call someone out to provide facts

when the OP says "I suspect she did give at least a grudging OK," without any source to back up that claim. You can say "I wish she did give at least a grudging OK" that would be fine. But what was written indicates that you have some knowledge of what happened and those who disagree are clearly wrong. I can say, " 9/11 was an inside job by the Bush admin. I suspect George did give at least a grudging OK to the plot" but without facts, I cant call people out for disagreeing. The onus of evidence is on the person making the claim.

We understand that you want Hilary in office and think she would do a better job. But creating an imagined story to match that desire doesn't make it a reality.

[B Calm]

19. Since Hillary was raised republican,

she might have had a better friendship with the republican controlled congress.

[karynnj]

36. Think about what you are saying

In the first place, Republicans may well see the fact that she was raised Republican and REJECTED the party she grew up in as worse than someone who was raised in a Democratic family and never challenged that identity.

On a more serious note, the ONLY way the Republicans would have a "better friendship" with the President is if he/she were willing to support their ideas. I seriously don't see Hillary agreeing to the Ryan budget plan or agreeing to any of their other demands.

I also don't think that Clinton had more or stronger friendships with Republicans when she was in the Senate than Obama did. It is well know that Obama had excellent relations with Lugar and Hagel, the two preeminent Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and with Tom Coburn (!).

Not to mention, friendship only goes so far in politics. I know there were stories of Clinton, sharing vodka with McCain in Russia, but I doubt there was anywhere near the close relationship that McCain had with Kerry. McCain's own book credits Kerry with helping him get through the very tough time McCain had when he was on the POW/MIA committee. Though that may have accounted for Mehgan McCain publicly saying she supported Kerry, McCain was disgusting at the Bush convention.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. I disagree; I think you'll find many people who feel like this:

'After elaborately laying out all the reasons to vote AGAINST the Iraq War, then-Senator Clinton turned right around and voted FOR it. She doesn't have any core values.

It's difficult to believe that Democrats would fund a Draft Hillary effort without Hillary's tacit approval. Lacking any core values, Hillary's only concern would be that it not be tied back to her. That would be lawyer-like and sneaky, adjectives that have often been used to descriibe Hillary.'

That's the kind of viewpoint that I find on some Democratic discussion forums, and obviously you'd want to have a huge fight with someone who feels so opposed to you. So I'll give you a link so you can go and argue: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=82968

Feel free to take your argument to a private venue, since it seems so important to both of you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. What I mean is your multiple personalities should argue among themselves

Last edited Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)

You don't need DU to do that. You can do it in your own head.

To be clear, what I am saying is that you are posting both pro-Hillary (in this OP) and anti-Hillary (in the link I gave above) viewpoints. Rather than attempting to stir up controversy on DU, you should decide what you think, and stick to that story once you come on DU.

[MADem]

61. +1 nt

[mmonk]

21. She isn't running. Not a worthwhile conversation.

[baldguy]

22. A person who isn't running could not possibly be "more effective" than one who is.

You might as well be wishing for candy cane trees and marshmallow skies. Stop living in a fantasy world.

[GoCubsGo]

25. Thank you.

[Schema Thing]

26. uh yeah, NO.

[WilliamPitt]

27. Ah jeez...

[lapislzi]

32. Pitt FTW n/t

[xmas74]

46. Exactly what I thought.

I don't even know why I opened the thread in the first place.

[MADem]

63. This thread is an argument for the return of UNREC.

At the very least...!

[99Forever]

28. I doubt she would be..

.. noticeably different from President Obama, nor do I buy for one second that she would run against him. Period.

[karynnj]

30. Not going to happen

It is long past when Hillary Clinton could have challenged Obama for the nomination. Your arguments don't make sense. On Afghanistan, Obama's "call" was actually LESS hawkish than the Clinton/Gates position. Clinton, Gates and McChrystal were the forces pushing for a mush larger escalation - while Kerry and Reed were arguing against that and Biden was arguing against COIN altogether. If your problem was Afghanistan, why not argue for a Biden run. Maybe it should be Biden who benefits from your embargo. That said, Biden would NEVER run against Obama.

As to "Obama's failures" that Hillary does not have - does that mean having actually passed healthcare reform, rather than not even getting the House and Senate to vote on your proposal?

Not to mention, you argue that the Republicans do not have a strong candidate in 2012 - and will in 2016. You then argue that we need the candidate you think stronger (Hillary) in 2012!

As to whether Hillary has anything to do with the calls - I would suggest that the probability is close to the probability of an ice cube remaining in the frozen state in Hell. Her public statements for years have been completely unambiguous - she is not running. (Not to mention, she has not raised money and many deadlines for getting on ballots are past. It is pretty undemocratic that you want a change that is not the outcome of a primary.)

[lapislzi]

31. Stop.

Not happening, not going to happen. Non-issue.

What is the point of this thread? To sow dissent? Fifth column fun? What?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. Hillary just called to say how sweet

Hide Thread is.

[BootinUp]

37. This is a joke right?

I might fantasize about Hillary as VP but this is getting ridiculous, lol.

[Life Long Dem]

43. Carl Rove thinks Hillary is the best thing the Democractic Party has.

This should be enough to tell you the kind of Democratic Party Rove would like to see.

[cthulu2016]

44. This is really offensive and belongs in creative speculation

[MilesColtrane]

66. +1

I'm all for locking batshittery like this.

[joeybee12]

47. I'll rec...she's too hawkish for my tastes, but Obama has been a disaster...

no reason to think that will change with 4 more years.

[NYC Liberal]

48. Hypothetical fantasy presidents are always better than reality.

Fantasy Presidents, just like "generic candidates," never have any problems and always get their way.

So you are entirely wrong. And I supported Hillary in the primaries.

[one_voice]

49. Stir, stir, stir...

[Eliminator]

50. Hillary is a TERRIBLE speaker

All around she is just an awful politician. Doesn't inspire people like Obama does. No, Hillary would lose easily to any of the Republican rivals. Obama, on the other hand, is going to mop the floor with them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. This thread has as much value as "Mothra v. King Kong" discussions

Dumber than usual.

[onenote]

76. By far the best post in this entire thread! Kudos!

[MjolnirTime]

53. But she is never running for office again, so what's your point?

Just bitterness for its own sake?

[CakeGrrl]

54. ...

Of course, it wouldn't floor me with shock if the Clinton Machine was idling, but truthfully I think it's GOP psy-ops at work.

And how well they know the susceptibility of their mark.

[book_worm]

56. this is just the kind of thread meant to revisit old passions from 08

because everybody knows that Hillary isn't running for president, so it doesn't make any sense to post. Also, most democrats WANT OBAMA--despite what some around DU think. Every single poll shows he is the overwhelming choice of Dems. So if you want HRC to get her ass kicked again then urge her to run.

[librechik]

57. ofgs n/t

[CakeGrrl]

64. I cannot WAIT until

Obama/Biden are finally the official Dem ticket for 2012.

Cannot come fast enough.

[MilesColtrane]

65. You have inspired me to start my campaign to draft Thomas Jefferson to run against Obama.

Can I count you as being on board?

[toddaa]

67. I'm mystified how Hillary improves the situation

She's a member of the Obama administration. A Secretary of State, she's played a significant role in the Obama 'failures'. Keep rearranging the deck chairs.

[CakeGrrl]

71. Apparently, this is the only way to

motivate the "Hillary should have win in 2008" crowd to vote Dem in 2012 according to Robert Reich.

Maybe if they all share the attitude of Lynn Forrester de Rothschild...

[toddaa]

74. Motivate them to do what, exactly... Triangulate themselves?

Sounds dangerous

[MADem]

111. She improves it for the GOP looking for a Divide and Conquer wedge. Most of us aren't that stupid,

fortunately. It's a complete canard!

[Charlemagne]

68. With all due respect

There is no way any of us could possibly know that. Obama hasnt had a second term, nor has Hillary had any terms at all. Anything we say regarding their policies is speculation based on what we hope would happen.

Its like all the people who say that the soviet union would have been a utopia if only Trotsky had been in power. No way of knowing it because it didnt happen.

"Like anyone could even know that"
--Napoleon Dynamite

[dawg]

69. I don't think I agree with this.

I do believe Hillary would have had a better first-term than President Obama has had. There isn't much difference in the two ideologically, but I think Hillary had a better grasp of what she would be up against and the futility of seeking compromise with people who are fundamentally irrational.

But at this point, with President Obama's entire administration already in place, and the steep learning curve that he has already had to climb, I don't think so. Hillary would have to re-invent the wheel in too many ways to make her first administration better than what President Obama is likely to accomplish in his second.

The only thing I really like about this idea (thought-experiment, really) is that it would allow for an Obama - Clinton - Obama twelve-year control of the White House, which is a thought that makes me smile a little. I fear that Mrs. Clinton will consider herself too old to run in 2016, which is a pity, because I think she would be a good president.

[AtomicKitten]

70. (cough) bullshit

[ohheckyeah]

79. Why is this even an issue?

Hillary isn't running, she has said she isn't running and there is NOTHING to indicate that she gave "at least a grudging OK" to the robocalls. To the contrary her actions have shown her to be a Democratic Party team player and splitting the party with a primary run at Obama is not in character for her.

[CakeGrrl]

84. Because Robert Reich wrote his daydream on the intertubes yesterday.

I suspect any random speculation will be seized upon from now through the end of the Dem Convention, if not a little bit beyond.

[cali]

80. the daily dose of DU insanity

and sorry but it's utterly insane to think that there is any way that Hillary runs in 2012 as long as Obama is running.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. Kinda like choosing between unflavored pablum and flavorless pablum. Two 3rd Way Democrats.

[LanternWaste]

82. I imagine you place much more faith in tea-leaves than I do.

I imagine you and your prognostications place much more faith in tea-leaves than do I. I merely use them to make, well... tea.

[aquart]

83. This is just nonsense.

We aren't dumping Obama and Hillary would never orchestrate that kind of palace coup.

I'm sorry Obama didn't turn out to be the Messiah. I'm sorry everything I warned about during the primaries turned out to be true. Get the fuck over it.

[gulliver]

85. It's silly to use Hillary to try to divide people against Obama

Hillary supports Obama down the line. And because Obama gave her the SoS job, she'll be in a good place for 2016. A vote for Obama now is a vote for Hillary in 2016. Using one Democrat against another when there is no primary is always wrong.

[RainDog]

86. reality check

no one gets to the level of president without making nice with people across the aisle.

Congress is supposed to be where the two parties duke it out.

Hillary has lots of baggage - one reason I didn't support her is because I didn't want to deal with that. And how do you deal with her making nice with the K Streeters who are behind the whole Jesus Plus One stuff? What about her unflinching support for Israel when she was the Senator from NY?

I honestly don't see how Obama has been a failure. He has done things I disagree with, but by no stretch of the imagination has his first term been a failure.

Where did so many members of his advisory team and Cabinet come from? Former Clinton wonks - it's not like Hillary doesn't align with them too.

Anyone who wins the office of the presidency is going to be perceived as a failure by those on the left because politicians cannot run or govern from the left unless or until the populists who vote for Republicans decide they've had enough with the failure of the cultural wars and decide to vote and make noise about their economic interests.

[MattBaggins]

87. not a lick of difference

Hillary has all the baggage of her husband and the machine already in place to oppose her.

She would cave to Boehner just as quickly as Obama.

[Bucky]

88. You must think she's a highly manipulative, disloyal, & dishonest person.

I don't. When she says she wants to leave politics in 2013, I take her at her word. I believe she's honest and loyal.

[LiberalFighter]

89. Total bullshit

If Obama had a Congress that was more willing to do their job he would do well in a second term. Even without that, any first term President would do better than a 2nd term President if we have a Congress like we have now.

Going with a specific Hillary first term against 2nd term Obama the results are not likely to be that much different are far as policies. Their are advantages to a 2nd term President. Mainly that they already have their people in place for the most part and only need to replace those that want to do something else.

TOO MUCH FOCUS IS ON WHO IS ELECTED PRESIDENT. It is also important on the makeup of Congress as learned from the 2010 elections.

In addition, it is too late for anyone interested in someone else to be the nomination for Democratic Party. Instead of wasting time on foolish wishes. We need to make sure Obama is elected with a strong Democratic Congress that will support him. And do our part to better educate the voters on what Obama has accomplished and what still needs to be done and the need to elect the right ones on the ticket below Obama. There is so much that voters need to know that is part of the puzzle. Like stop watching Fox News and listening to the likes of Beck and Windbag. Call out their local media when they slant the news on purpose. Twitter them to hell so that others know they lie or twist the truth.

[treestar]

92. True. Second term Obama depends on 2012 and 2014 Congresses.

Obama's likely to win, so OP should put aside bashing him and work on Congress.

[Botany]

95. Total Troll

Now do you get your check right from Rove or somebody else?

You are parroting lines that I have read that Rove and company want
spread to cause problems "with our side."

I'm suffering from Obama fatigue. talking point

The guy starts wars. please tell me which one

He caves in to bankers. somewhat true but the bankers were scared shitless of E. Warren

he fights constantly with Congress. You r kidding me on this one this one? right

The family thing is kitsch. The Obamas have worked very hard to keep their kids and MIL out of
the press.

He plays golf with Boehner and drags drags drags out negotiations. He played ONE round w/ Boner
in order to try to find some common ground and it has been the republicans stalling things in order
to hurt the President.

[rocktivity]

97. And why should anyone believe that Hillary would be LESS likely

to "start wars, cave in to bankers, fight constantly with Congress, and drag out out negotiations?"


rocktivity

[bluestate10]

104. You make a good point.

Democrats need to put all of their energy into electing a big democratic Congress that will help President Obama govern during a second term. This batshit about Hillary and third-way democrats is fucking loony. Let's win battles against the reactionary forces that threaten the nation rather than conjure up insane theories that have us fighting each other like dogs.

[Lil Missy]

90. Bullshit.

[tjwash]

91. Did something just go running through here?

[DeathToTheOil]

96. YAWWWWWWWWN

[Tx4obama]

98. Hillary has said she will NOT run for elected office in the future, she's retiring ...

to private life. She wants to work on women's rights issues globally.
And wants to be free to spend time with the grand babies when they arrive.

What part of that don't people get?

[mistertrickster]

99. OH NOOOO! Not this again . . . nt

[marmar]

100. Hoo boy......

The tired debate that will never die.

[tledford]

105. She isn't running. eom

[Ikonoklast]

107. Thanks for all the hard work on our behalf.

Love,

Karl.

[Warren DeMontague]

110. comedy gold.

sorry, no sale.

[Lord Helmet]

112. lolsnort

[TheKentuckian]

113. A difference in style and "face" is meaningless and probably counterproductive

Why feed the charade that the problem is mostly personality?

I call that a fool's errand. Hillary is cosmetic as a remedy.