Has California become America's Taiwan ?

[jaysunb]

Our Governor and Legislature have been very vocal about our resolve not to go along w/ the coming shitstorm aka as the Trump administration. We are very capable of completely taking care of ourselves and we are willing to do just that.
The fact that our economy and resources would make us the 7th largest in the world if we were an independent nation put us right there with the Taiwanese and their muddy entanglement with mainland China.
Over the last several years there's been lots of fanciful talk about Washington and Oregon joining us to create a new country known as Pacifica, but I seriously doubt that will happen, but I really believe that we are at the point " States Rights " will be a feature of our future.

We shall see.....

[LonePirate]

1. I suspect the Repubs in DC won't be supportive of states rights when blue states defy their wishes.

[sarcasmo]

2. Seriously considering the move to either Oregon or California, snowfall today is helping

the idea. The lease is up and can move anywhere with a months notice.

[KamaAina]

3. I hate to tell you this, but it just snowed in Portland.

Same deal as DC or Atlanta: anything over an inch = total paralysis.

[Raine]

18. It snowed here in California in the mountains and it's predicted to be

close to freezing even along the coast.

[sarcasmo]

23. Have friends in San Diego, going to check that out this spring.

[Raine]

33. San Diego is a beautiful city. I was just down there a couple days ago

had a nice time. San Diego is a little bit more conservative politically then Los Angeles but it's evolved in the last several years and it's not a repug stronghold like it was in the past.

[TDale313]

4. Born and raised here, and never been prouder to be a Californian.

[KamaAina]

5. How about America's Scotland?

With some devolution of powers?

[eleny]

6. I like how goods made in Asia come through your ports

Not that California would do anything to hamper commerce. It just points out how important the state is to our economy.

The state should never be be treated lightly or dismissed. I do expect a period of, "First they laugh at you". But the smirking won't last long because there's nothing funny about how Brown is playing hardball with the administration.

I'll be waiting and watching with gleeful anticipation.

[FarCenter]

7. California will look a good bit more "golden" without Colorado River water.

[jaysunb]

8. And, who else will they sell it to ? n/t

[FarCenter]

22. Arizona, New Mexico, and maybe keep more in Colorado and Utah

Part of CA's ag production can be replaced by more irrigation in Arizona.

[SQUEE]

9. And your larder will suffer for that drought.

It's going to the Inland Empire and Central Valley to feed all of us. Arizona vs California establishes half that water coming down the Colorado is California's.

We as a nation are intertwined.
I for one do not look forward to 55 EC votes 2 senators and 38 Representatives taking their ball and going home.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

10. I suspect California will become independent in my lifetime, but not because of Trump

Everything made in California is sold to a global market so California has nothing to gain from protectionism. A US that becomes insular and protectionist would be damaging to every single economic interest in California. Combine that with ever divergent cultural mores and the shit deal that all large states get from the federal government from a tax to spending perspective and you have a powder keg.

At a bare minimum the federal government will have to eventually give California a degree of autonomy over immigration and trade.

[jaysunb]

12. Spot on. n/t

[Midwestern Democrat]

27. Why would CA be allowed to just walk away when the South wasn't in 1861?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

32. because the federal government by that time will probably be bankrupt and effete

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. That's why Governor Brown is quiet on TPP.

[awoke_in_2003]

11. We have training centers out there...

wish I could afford to leave in Cali.

[jaysunb]

13. There are affordable areas.....

although they are in the reddest part of the State, that may be changing with the new marijuana hemp production and it's markets as well as wind and solar energy that will create jobs in those areas.

We don't all live in Beverly Hills.

[Adsos Letter]

14. I live in the SF Bay Area.

I am concerned that Sessions, if confirmed as AG, will crank up the drug war against our marijuana growers and dispensaries. With Trump being as vindictive as he is, I will not be surprised if they focus DEA resources extra heavily on California.

[jaysunb]

15. We do not have to cooperate

States rights and the fact that some Federal rulings by the SC will keep his sorry ass from doing it. Not to mention, big pharma and tobacco will have a say.

[hunter]

31. The libertarian crowd who hated Clinton so much they voted for Trump will not be happy...

... if anyone goes after their pot and their porn.

I suspect the real billionaires and the military establishment have already built a gilded cage to keep Trump in.

Trump and Pence are puppets, just as Reagan and George W. Bush were puppets. Easily manipulated.

The California economy by itself is larger than the Russian economy, and California's politics behind closed doors more Byzantine and Machiavellian than anything Putin knows.

The Trump states need California more than California needs them.

[awoke_in_2003]

17. No

But my 1600 square foot house that cost me $105k in Texas would cost me $250k in any neighborhood worth living in in California

[diane in sf]

21. More like minimally $300k-$1M.

[Dream Girl]

29. Yes easily $1M

[Calculating]

16. Time for the whole west coast to split off

Call it Western States of America or something. The Republicans have shown that they obviously have no intentions of compromise or bipartisanship. If they don't wanna play a team game, then screw em.

[DFW]

19. Look at the "taker" states vs. the "giver" states

Chart here: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

The biggest "taker" states, that is, the ones that mooch twice as much (or more) from the federal government as they contribute, are all, except for Hawai'i and New Mexico, among the reddest, most "conservative," anti-tax, anti-rights, anti-education states in the nation. In order of greediest (or most inefficient, if you prefer):

South Carolina
North Dakota
Florida
Louisiana
Alabama
Hawai'i
Mississippi
New Mexico
Kentucky
West Virginia
Indiana

Among the "giver" states, i.e. the ones who get back less from Washington than they contribute, are (bet you guessed already) the big bad "libbrul" states of Massachusetts, New York, and, of course (despite their big sales and state incomes taxes), California.

[Raine]

34. Yes exactly and all us giver states get is continual contempt

from the takers who tell us we're not "real Americans".

[DFW]

36. Exactly. As if any of them knew what a "real American" is

Ask them how many of the speak Lakota, Navajo, Cherokee, Tlingit or Hopi. They'll probably collectively answer "huh?"

[briv1016]

20. I hope NY (and most of the Northeast) joins them.

[Bucky]

24. The Houston metropolitan area wants in on that action

We promise to ship all our Halliburton offices over to Fort Worth

[DFW]

35. As long as they stay outside the Dallas city limits

I still visit home regularly

[roamer65]

25. I'd say more like Quebec is to Canada.

The phrase "sovereignty association" may become a part of American political discourse soon.

California does fit the bill of a "distinct society".

Eventually I see the United States returning to a looser "confederation", much like it was from 1789-1865.

[etherealtruth]

26. As I pointed out elsewhere ... California does not even have proportional representation ...

in congress (and the EC).

how long will Californians provide so much to the US economy and receive little in return

Wyoming's three member congressional delegation represent a total of 586, 107 people (for simplicity sake there is one congressional member for every 195, 369 people/ 1 house member for every 586,107 people) ... in juxtaposition to California's 55 member congressional delegation which represent 38.8 million people (again for simplicity one congress member for every 705, 455 people/ 1 house member for every 732,075 people). Should a population adding so much to the US be represented proportionately less than a state that adds so little?

[jaysunb]

30. +1. n/t