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LWolf

(46,179 posts)
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:16 PM Dec 2016

Rural living.

I live rurally, outside a small town. I work about 13 miles away, in an even smaller town. I get to work with no stoplights and 4 stop signs. Most of those miles are on roads cutting through pastures and public land.

I didn't ask a single one of my colleagues or friends who they voted for, although a few did want to talk politics early on. Some were "anybody but Trump." Some voted for Johnson; and some voted for Trump. Reluctantly.

Rural people don't really feel the love from the Democratic Party. I've seen the stereotyping, derision, disdain and discrimination directed at them here at DU, so I certainly understand why they feel that way.

On my way home from work on Tuesday, I stopped at the store. A big storm was headed our way, and I wanted to make sure I was all stocked up. So did everybody else in the local area; we were circling the bumpy sheets of ice in the parking lot trying to find a place to park, mincing over that ice to get into the store, and waiting patiently to find room in the aisles.

I ran into 4 fellow teachers and a whole crew of students, current and former, and their families. We stopped to chat, and eventually moved into the unusually long lines to check out, where we chatted with total strangers and shared stories about our days, predictions for the storm, and generally kept each other company. Nobody was impatient or grumpy; we all just waited together. We didn't talk politics or try to cut people off in line or in the parking lot. We did help each other get safely through the ice to our cars, and we did wait patiently, and stop repeatedly, for pedestrians once we got to them.

It's good that we were there Tuesday night, because the storm that arrived in the wee hours kept a lot of us snowed in for a few days. I made it out today, but not without some effort.

Happily, when I went out to unbury my truck, I saw that my neighbor plowed my driveway. That's important; it's a football field long. He cleared the snow from the gate and plowed all the way down to my truck. We don't have any arrangement; he just does it, because he has a tractor and I don't. He also maintains our private dirt road. For nothing. And when he needed water while his well pump was being repaired, we ran a hose from the hydrant nearest the road on my side to his house. I never asked him about his politics. We're just neighbors.

I drive a 4wd truck. It's only a 4 cylinder, but it handles that long snowy driveway; I've never gotten stuck. It helps keep me from sliding around on icy roads, since I leave before the crews spread gravel them on work days. It hauls feed, it hauls wood, it hauls everything but my horses, which I have to depend on a friend with a bigger truck to do.

I've been criticized over the years here at DU for not driving something greener; of course, if I could afford a 2nd vehicle for when it's not icy or snowy, or I'm not hauling things, I would. But I can't. I've been criticized for not utilizing the non-existent public transit system. Of course, when I drive the 200 miles or so into the big city a few times a year, I park and use public transportation. I love our city's public transit system.

Most of my neighbors own guns. I don't. They hunt. I get venison and elk jerky as holiday gifts. People bring venison and elk stew and smoked salmon to potlucks. I've run into those hunters on the trails during hunting season; they've never shot close to my house, and they've always stopped, gun pointing to the ground, to chat and let me get safely by.

There are all kinds of rural situations that don't fit urban wisdom. Democrats would be wise to see the difference, and to be inclusive. Unfortunately, so many are not. I can't count the number of times I've defended rural people over the years here. More so than ever, in the last month. This area voted Obama in '08. Trump took it this fall. These people are willing to listen, and are not lock-step Republican voters. They can be won by an inclusive party and candidate. Democrats just have to want their support more than they want a scapegoat.

262 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Rural living. (Original Post) LWolf Dec 2016 OP
If most rural Americans didn't constantly vote against their best interests ... LonePirate Dec 2016 #1
It's only a fool who never felt like one. WheelWalker Dec 2016 #4
I suspect most people vote for candidates who they THINK is in their best interest. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #6
marketing AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #19
Combined with the "What have you done for me lately?" phenomenon. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #22
Welcome to DU, AlexSFCA! calimary Dec 2016 #32
post truth AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #43
And that's part of the problem right there. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #81
Yes, it is a problem The Genealogist Dec 2016 #158
Keep in mind that some view at least some of those programs as the REASON for economic woes. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #56
I imagine many of them don't see themselves ever needing it. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #65
Did you miss the part... druidity33 Dec 2016 #18
we need to be strategic AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #20
I said most of rural America, not all of rural America. LonePirate Dec 2016 #21
It is never a waste of time to go after every vote. kwassa Dec 2016 #143
I refuse to respect any voter who supports racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, etc. LonePirate Dec 2016 #146
and the fact that these voters vote Republican doesn't mean they support those things. kwassa Dec 2016 #150
Except those issues were the key issues on the Republican side of this past presidential campaign. LonePirate Dec 2016 #151
From your perspective, not from theirs. kwassa Dec 2016 #154
Most voters who were worried about the economy voted for Hillary, not Trump... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #167
Not the former factor workers whose jobs disappeared overseas. kwassa Dec 2016 #220
Evidence for this? Exit polls on election night contradict what you said. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #238
NEVER is an awfully long time hfojvt Dec 2016 #157
You are completely wrong..... paleotn Dec 2016 #209
No amount of marketing will reach them. They chose the racist who will take their health care. LonePirate Dec 2016 #210
Then we lose and the country goes down the drain paleotn Dec 2016 #213
No amount of trying will persuade people who are only interested in destruction and ignorance. LonePirate Dec 2016 #214
Did you even read my post? paleotn Dec 2016 #216
You seem to think they can be reached. I don't think they can be reached, hence an impasse. LonePirate Dec 2016 #217
"Some of us have no interest in coddling fools." tecelote Dec 2016 #40
Ask that question a year from now when they lose their health care and Social Security. LonePirate Dec 2016 #41
And you're laying the groundwork for change? tecelote Dec 2016 #42
I have zero interest in changing rural America so that they join the rest of us in the 21st century. LonePirate Dec 2016 #48
Spoken just like the Trump supporters. tecelote Dec 2016 #60
Nope. Unlike them I am more than happy to let them live by their rules in their backwards USA. LonePirate Dec 2016 #61
And this is exactly why Abq_Sarah Dec 2016 #244
Democrats have tried to help them and have succeeded when given a chance. LonePirate Dec 2016 #247
Tried to help them? Abq_Sarah Dec 2016 #249
They could act like they are not a different species by joining the rest of us in 2016 America. LonePirate Dec 2016 #252
Thats OK, we will just keep on taking their money Kilgore Dec 2016 #255
".....and there is a monumental amount of stupidity firmly entrenched in rural America nowadays." pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #59
+1! tecelote Dec 2016 #66
They are more interested in their hatred for us treestar Dec 2016 #96
Yup. + 1,000,000 NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #49
The people who elected him. Don't forget Hitler won a clear plurality in the 1933 election. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #119
donald did not win, imho. tomp Dec 2016 #137
You're deciding what's in their best interests? MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #46
+ 1,000 NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #50
Someone needs to given how they think their best interests include bigotry, early deaths ... LonePirate Dec 2016 #52
You're going to take the position that they voted in their best interests? Squinch Dec 2016 #90
Yes treestar Dec 2016 #97
They ARE voting for their interests if their interest is keeping black and other minorites down JI7 Dec 2016 #55
Just another reason why we shouldn't bother with them. They are a lost cause. LonePirate Dec 2016 #57
yeah, but this goes for people in rural and city areas . i don't care where they are from JI7 Dec 2016 #58
Exactly treestar Dec 2016 #98
And there it is. First response. nt LWolf Dec 2016 #135
Please elaborate. Do you really think rural Americans vote for their best interests? LonePirate Dec 2016 #144
I really think LWolf Dec 2016 #164
Rural Americans shouldn't support politicians who represent the worst of America. LonePirate Dec 2016 #175
Well said. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #236
I have to ask the obvious.... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #196
Evidently maintaining the health & welfare of oneself, one's family & the planet is an urban ideal. LonePirate Dec 2016 #198
You continue with the myth....Urban is better than rural....it's not. Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #200
Did you even try to socialize with the people in your building? Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #201
"Did you even try to socialize.."....ohh absolutely I tried.. Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #203
Perhaps its because I live in St. Louis, a city that was eviserated by white flight... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #204
The vast majority of rural America does not think or see things like you do. LonePirate Dec 2016 #202
No...you are wrong..."quite decisively" wrong... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #241
You may care but rural America's decades long voting streak for Republicans says otherwise. LonePirate Dec 2016 #242
Have we done better??? Several election cycles say not. Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #243
They no longer have any scapegoats come January 20 so maybe they will finally see the light. LonePirate Dec 2016 #245
This mindset is exactly why we will continue to take beatings as we have recently... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #250
I don't agree that rural Americans know the cause of their ills. LonePirate Dec 2016 #253
You've made that clear....."253. I don't agree that rural Americans know the cause of their ills." Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #254
They were offered a reasonable solution this year. They rejected it in favor of bigotry and lies. LonePirate Dec 2016 #256
Hey...you can live with that vision of those that don't see things your way... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #259
Someone coddled them and they responded tom_kelly Dec 2016 #211
Except they didn't realize the answer to his question was health care, Social Security & the planet. LonePirate Dec 2016 #212
I get it. easttexaslefty Dec 2016 #2
I hear ya. WheelWalker Dec 2016 #3
No stop signs here jeffreyi Dec 2016 #5
K&R Martin Eden Dec 2016 #7
I don't see that many people feeding the city slicker/country bumpkin stereotyping Warpy Dec 2016 #8
It's pretty much the same where I'm at 2naSalit Dec 2016 #36
This is an interesting observation. I haven't seen that stereotyping either until after the Squinch Dec 2016 #92
I live in a similar situation. Mr.Bill Dec 2016 #9
what specific discrimination do you see from other du'ers? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #10
I recall reading at least one post thst was titled something like f'k the white rural voter. CentralMass Dec 2016 #84
Sounds like pipi_k Dec 2016 #11
I catch myself feeling... AJT Dec 2016 #12
I agree, and the media feeds it every election cycle... rwsanders Dec 2016 #29
Yep, and pipi_k Dec 2016 #142
+1 meadowlander Dec 2016 #161
relunctantly voted for Trump? Skittles Dec 2016 #13
This samir.g Dec 2016 #51
Exactly. n/t Different Drummer Dec 2016 #207
And no attempt to unsderstand treestar Dec 2016 #99
I know. Did you catch the insinuation in the OP that he and his rural Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #122
and that is another thing that bothers me greatly Skittles Dec 2016 #156
Yes and it is not something when you live so close to others you would even think to highlight lunasun Dec 2016 #171
It was frustrating, to be sure. LWolf Dec 2016 #139
Well-said. k&r, nt appal_jack Dec 2016 #14
No It Wasn't ProfessorGAC Dec 2016 #225
'Rural people don't really feel the love from the Democratic Party. elleng Dec 2016 #15
Some Can Be Won Maybe But... colsohlibgal Dec 2016 #16
THANK YOU Skittles Dec 2016 #17
Thank you 47of74 Dec 2016 #39
+10000000000000 treestar Dec 2016 #101
I'm with you. Tired of excusing their views due to their willful ignorance. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #128
+1 SunSeeker Dec 2016 #23
+10000000000000 treestar Dec 2016 #100
You write beautifully. Adsos Letter Dec 2016 #24
Is this the new "city boy." plimsoll Dec 2016 #25
No, not intended. LWolf Dec 2016 #136
Didn't think so. plimsoll Dec 2016 #173
Big K&R... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #26
Let's not forget that if they voted for Obama in '08 then they also probably StevieM Dec 2016 #27
It doesn't appear that "they voted for Obama" is exactly true etherealtruth Dec 2016 #123
THIS,THIS,THIS!!! I wish I could pound this into people's heads. Squinch Dec 2016 #186
Excellent points, Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #237
They feel excluded. HassleCat Dec 2016 #28
I too live in rural PA, right at the top of the infamous T wcast Dec 2016 #30
but are the young people even staying in your area? pstokely Dec 2016 #93
In my area many of the brightest do tend to move away. wcast Dec 2016 #193
This +1000 DeminPennswoods Dec 2016 #107
Ugh, the idea of Pennsylvanians flying a Confederate flag Patiod Dec 2016 #141
Great post. My ancestor fought at Gettysburg with the Pennsylvania Bucktails .... kwassa Dec 2016 #149
This message was self-deleted by its author DeminPennswoods Dec 2016 #31
The media doesn't help either. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #33
I live in rural eastern Ohio this area was heavily Democratic until we lost doc03 Dec 2016 #34
Race is interesting in LWolf Dec 2016 #138
exactly - great post Locrian Dec 2016 #190
Yes. LWolf Dec 2016 #222
If the fact they feel insulted makes them vote against the future of their children, Darkhawk32 Dec 2016 #35
I just now decided to see how the Amish vote. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #37
Thank you for this... Docreed2003 Dec 2016 #38
"It really does hurt to see so much disdain for rural America on a forum like this." pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #47
I totally agree with you. kwassa Dec 2016 #152
Bravo! Outstanding post! pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #44
The Democratic Party used to be known for helping the little guy in the small towns. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #45
elites who sneer down from the big cities ? So Trump doesn't fit this ? JI7 Dec 2016 #54
Trump just arrived on the scene. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #62
they see equal rights for minorities as sneering at them JI7 Dec 2016 #64
Who is "they"? All rural people? Scapegoat much?! pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #68
"they" are people who voted for Trump. This includes those who live in cities and anywhere else JI7 Dec 2016 #69
So what's your point? It really has nothing to do with the OP now, does it? NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #71
my point is that racism is a HUGE part of their support for Trump and all the elites crap is bs JI7 Dec 2016 #73
Which has exactly 0% to do with the OP. NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #75
the OP doesn't want to acknowledge the bigotry behind the Trump vote. JI7 Dec 2016 #77
Broad-brush much? LOL! NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #79
The racists trump voters I know in are far to Violent for Rational Thoughts. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #110
And of course your anecdotal experience is reflective of the entire nation. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #159
no just the racists trump voters . stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #160
+1, why are some ignoring the empirical data on Benedict Donald stoking racial animus to win? Obama uponit7771 Dec 2016 #104
They voted for Trump because he's a white male and stoked racial animus ... period. There are no ... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #103
It forces people to confront ugly and inconvenient truths etherealtruth Dec 2016 #126
Lol! It still does that. It's just that those little guys now like to vote for the Republican Squinch Dec 2016 #91
they seem fine with Big City Elites like Donald Trump . JI7 Dec 2016 #53
See post #62 NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #63
Trump didn't just arrive on the scene. he has been pushing Birther crap during Obama's entire JI7 Dec 2016 #67
See #68 NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #70
fuck anyone who voted for Trump. no matter where they live . and they did it over shared bigotry JI7 Dec 2016 #72
Fine. Dump your profanities and ignore the point of the OP. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #74
i get what the OP is doing. but the OP doesn't want to acknowledge the real reason they supported JI7 Dec 2016 #76
You're broad-brushing, and as a result I'm done with you. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #78
lol, if they voted for Trump no matter where they live they are bigots JI7 Dec 2016 #80
Whoosh! (The sound made as the point of the OP sails over your head.) pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #87
Hillary Clinton didn't attack others as hicks or rednecks. but TRump DID attack others JI7 Dec 2016 #88
These are some of the same people who voted for Obama... of course Obama wasn't running against uponit7771 Dec 2016 #106
You didn't answer the question about Fiengold either uponit7771 Dec 2016 #105
Meh, not feeling it. No one kisses California's ass* R B Garr Dec 2016 #82
and even the early primary states where it's all about Iowa and NH JI7 Dec 2016 #83
I found your last finger wagging sentence offensive eleny Dec 2016 #85
. Squinch Dec 2016 #117
Like you I grew up largely in Queens. marybourg Dec 2016 #155
My old neighborhood was Woodhaven right near FK Lane HS eleny Dec 2016 #163
Flushing. nt. marybourg Dec 2016 #187
Instead of dividing us oldtime dfl_er Dec 2016 #86
Urban living. Squinch Dec 2016 #89
Yep DeminPennswoods Dec 2016 #109
Thank you! Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #125
Well, you know. Apparently not mowing down the pedestrians in the parking lot is Squinch Dec 2016 #134
Hey, my high school had a class - Advanced Elbowing eleny Dec 2016 #165
I still have knuckle scars from the Dominicans! Squinch Dec 2016 #166
Omg, I had them in elementary school. Some bruisers, for sure. eleny Dec 2016 #168
Amen. eleny Dec 2016 #130
I grew up in the country. Your story is very, very relatable. DemocraticWing Dec 2016 #94
What derision from DU? treestar Dec 2016 #95
I live in rural Idaho. nilesobek Dec 2016 #102
The racists trump voters I know in are far to Violent for Rational Thoughts. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #108
Sorry but it's too late for all this handwringing .. ananda Dec 2016 #111
Indeed. Laughing, because we too built a temp waterline to the neighbor's when their well failed Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #112
Excellent post. cwydro Dec 2016 #113
Cwydro, you know I love you, but I'm sorry I have to say this. Look at your post. Squinch Dec 2016 #115
I only see this rural versus urban thing here on DU. cwydro Dec 2016 #124
"Perhaps I've missed the ones dissing the urbanites." eleny Dec 2016 #131
Your own post disses urbanites. I don't see it as a big deal, but apparently when it goes the other Squinch Dec 2016 #133
I wish my neighbors were as considerate as yours re guns. Vinca Dec 2016 #114
Fuck em,I hope the stupid fucks suffer all the misery their racism and sexism deserves. libtodeath Dec 2016 #116
Humanity senaca Dec 2016 #118
No problem with ur truck..u use it dembotoz Dec 2016 #120
One of the best posts i have read on DU in quite a while. Kilgore Dec 2016 #121
Good grief, seriously? Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #127
Or that neither take precedence, LWolf Dec 2016 #140
As if a vote for Trump was not a vote for their group's wants, needs, and prejudices, Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #184
Actually, I didn't acknowledge that "point" LWolf Dec 2016 #223
I am not looking for a scapegoat, I'm looking for facts to explain the outcome of the election. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #235
Great OP. I agree 100%. KPN Dec 2016 #129
One more time: those for whom the economy and jobs were the most important issue Squinch Dec 2016 #183
The urban folks that denigrate and lump the rural PufPuf23 Dec 2016 #132
Rural folks don't denigrate city folk? Ha. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #148
No different from the rural elitists such as the OP here. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #176
My point is more of those in superior social position defining those of lesser position as PufPuf23 Dec 2016 #179
Frankly speaking, as this election shows, rural whites have far too much political power... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #199
Great post. Squinch Dec 2016 #206
LOLOLOL!!!!! NO, you're wrong. The "big part of what has gone so wrong" are the imbeciles Squinch Dec 2016 #218
We lose rural america because of the gun issue and the misinformation that surrounds it. TrekLuver Dec 2016 #145
I am guilty of it. However, same could be said of rural folks attitudes towards city slickers. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #147
Reverend Horton Heat - Rural Point of View bluedigger Dec 2016 #153
Us vs them is part of the plan.... AJT Dec 2016 #162
Agreed senaca Dec 2016 #170
Yep, people in our rural voted for Obama both times and this time it was Trump Autumn Dec 2016 #169
I was in northern WI this summer LeftInTX Dec 2016 #172
Huge K&R, you have opened my eyes... bless you! secondwind Dec 2016 #174
I'm assuming at least 90% of your neighbors are of a single color, is that right? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #177
I'd say 95% resistance2016 Dec 2016 #181
True, I've been to rural and near rural places where, being white, I end up witnessing... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #185
Y'know, I live in the city, and I regularly HOLD DOORS for people! hatrack Dec 2016 #178
I remember one time, a tire blew and we were in the big bad city... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #188
But, hatrack, you DO run down pedestrians in parking lots, don't you? Because if Squinch Dec 2016 #189
God, I am So busted! Haven't run down anybody in . . . . weeks. hatrack Dec 2016 #191
I am going to have to report you to the Society for Squinch Dec 2016 #192
Oh yeah? Hey FUCK YOU, BUDDY!!!!! hatrack Dec 2016 #194
VROOOOOOM!!!! Oops! Sorry! Squinch Dec 2016 #197
Do white people plow their black neighbor's driveway too where you live? resistance2016 Dec 2016 #180
Excellent! raven mad Dec 2016 #182
Too much tribalism and conformity for my tastes Politicub Dec 2016 #195
I like both. LWolf Dec 2016 #226
You just like a different tribe and different kind of conformity SubjectiveLife78 Dec 2016 #229
I think the implication is the rural conformity excludes LGBT people, whereas the conformity in... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #239
Rural's ok tirebiter Dec 2016 #205
tirebiter, thats a handle I remember from the old Pathfinder Time Magazine JimBeard Dec 2016 #208
Can't speak for everyone who disagrees with you, but I am not angry with or scapegoating those folks stevenleser Dec 2016 #215
I agree with all of that. LWolf Dec 2016 #224
At this point Afromania Dec 2016 #219
Great post. kwassa Dec 2016 #221
Beautiful post. Squinch Dec 2016 #251
Or maybe they didn't feel they'd come out ahead in the last 8 years. LisaM Dec 2016 #227
Well, that's all very nice, but I still don't think pnwmom Dec 2016 #228
What is party makeup of your local politicians? Roland99 Dec 2016 #230
I was mortified when Hillary called people deplorable BRToldschool Dec 2016 #231
I was too. It was the 2016 version of Mitt Romney's 47% comment. Initech Dec 2016 #233
Yes! I thought exactly the same thing! BRToldschool Dec 2016 #234
Welcome to DU, LWolf Dec 2016 #240
I totally understand your view and feeling you expressed. Well written. Thank you. kgnu_fan Dec 2016 #232
Thank you. kstewart33 Dec 2016 #246
I love how this is always presented as a one-way street. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #248
That's simply not true. LWolf Dec 2016 #257
Many people here are emotionally invested in their candidates.... Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #260
Yes. LWolf Dec 2016 #261
Nice post, thank you. I grew up in a rural area like yours. Unfortunately, it's become all built napi21 Dec 2016 #258
I believe that LWolf Dec 2016 #262

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
1. If most rural Americans didn't constantly vote against their best interests ...
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:19 PM
Dec 2016

and against the best interests of the country, perhaps they would not be subject to as much derision. Some of us have no interest in coddling fools.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
6. I suspect most people vote for candidates who they THINK is in their best interest.
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:29 PM
Dec 2016

It might be wise to give them these kinds of reminders more often:

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
22. Combined with the "What have you done for me lately?" phenomenon.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:23 AM
Dec 2016

I've heard well-paid union workers whine about unions, well-paid government workers whine about government jobs, etc.

I suspect that marketing is the biggest problem, though.

calimary

(81,238 posts)
32. Welcome to DU, AlexSFCA!
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:15 AM
Dec 2016

Man, is that ever true!

They have very little sense of effective sloganeering or perception management. They still tend to give up too easily. They take too many feather dusters to gunfights. And they don't fight hard, ruthless, and dirty. Sad to say, that seems to be the only way to win, anymore. When the other guy cheats...

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
43. post truth
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:31 AM
Dec 2016

We live in a post-truth and post-fact world where it's not the truth or facts that matter most but what people beleive in and how effectively the information is reached.

We are now facing new libel laws against free press, the end of net neutrality and large scale propaganda if conspiracy theories from the highest level of government. Combine that with social media and we have a recipe for the end of our democracy.

Democrats are gonna have to learn how to aggressively communictae their messages and actual facts to people outside metropolitan bubbles. Our only marketing was through celebreties - that doesn't worl anymore - only grasstoots matter now.

NanceGreggs

(27,814 posts)
81. And that's part of the problem right there.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:10 AM
Dec 2016

The idea that we have to "market" our product, instead of voters bothering to look beyond the "brand name label" to actually read the ingredients.

The Genealogist

(4,723 posts)
158. Yes, it is a problem
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:05 PM
Dec 2016

Unfortunately, its the way things are in this country, where anything and everything possible becomes a commodity to be sold.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
56. Keep in mind that some view at least some of those programs as the REASON for economic woes.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:46 AM
Dec 2016

Not the solution to those woes.

My cousins absolutely think that Social Security, Medicare and welfare are what's bankrupting the country. It doesn't help when they're shown pie charts indicating what % of the budget those programs are.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
65. I imagine many of them don't see themselves ever needing it.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:57 AM
Dec 2016

That would be a self-centered attitude, but that's not uncommon in this country.

There's surely many who have disconnected those kinds of safety nets as government-based too, though.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
18. Did you miss the part...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:16 AM
Dec 2016

where the OP said the area voted for Obama prior to Trump? This election was effed up in more ways than i can count.....

the "screw those fools" dismissive posts do nothing to understand how we as a nation arrived here, nor do they help us rural Americans bridge those gaps with our neighbors. Off to do some coddling now...



AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
20. we need to be strategic
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:23 AM
Dec 2016

There are many people in rust belt states who voted for Obama in '08 and '12 and now voted for trump. I beleive they can still be won over and, in fact, must be won over next time if we're serious about winning the electoral college.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
21. I said most of rural America, not all of rural America.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:23 AM
Dec 2016

I suspect the OP is in the northeast or the upper Midwest, possibly the Pacific northwest, as those are the only rural areas that ever vote Democratic. The overwhelming majority of rural areas in America never vote Democratic and have not voted Democratic in decades. Those people, unlike the OP's neighbors, are not worth our time because they will never, ever vote Democratic. It is a complete waste of time to go after the bulk of rural America.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
143. It is never a waste of time to go after every vote.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:15 PM
Dec 2016

Most states have rural and urban areas, with rural leaning red and the urban leaning blue. This is not an absolute law for either group, though. To treat it as if it was one is not productive. There are also many different shades of Democrats and Republicans, too.

All groups in all areas deserve respect.

Painting with broad brushes only alienates people. Many states are purple, and can go either way, so courting every available vote is important.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
146. I refuse to respect any voter who supports racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:20 PM
Dec 2016

Those are not the people we should be pursuing. Looking at any election map, it's pretty easy to tell where they cluster.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
150. and the fact that these voters vote Republican doesn't mean they support those things.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:31 PM
Dec 2016

Not in their personal lives. Republicans are a coalition, like Democrats, and cover a broad swath of different viewpoints. They are not a monolith.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
151. Except those issues were the key issues on the Republican side of this past presidential campaign.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:35 PM
Dec 2016

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
154. From your perspective, not from theirs.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:45 PM
Dec 2016

They are being fooled by Trump's promises to turn back the clock to a time when they were much more prosperous and comfortable. Many are ignoring the other parts of Trump, as they are voting in their own perceived self-interest. They want the old days back.

He can't deliver that. No one can. These voters will soon find out.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
167. Most voters who were worried about the economy voted for Hillary, not Trump...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:58 PM
Dec 2016

For Trump it was largely divisive social issues, the biggest possibly being pro-lifers voting for him because he promised pro-life judges on the supreme court.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
157. NEVER is an awfully long time
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:03 PM
Dec 2016

For one example, Obama won 13 counties in North Dakota in 2008. Clinton only won 2 this year.

And while Obama got trounced in 2012 in North Dakota 39% to 58% those very same rural voters elected a Democrat to the US Senate Heidi Heitkamp squeaked out a win 50.24% to 49.32%. She got 161,000 votes to Obama's 124,800. So about 37,000 voters in North Dakota voted for Romney and also for Heitkamp.

Once upon a time, not that long ago, South Dakota had TWO democratic Senators and not that long ago Iowa was split 1-1 instead of now being 0 and 2.

Granted, you usually end up with a Max Baucus instead of a George McGovern or Tom Harkin or even a Tom Daschle, but Democrats have won in rural, conservative places.

paleotn

(17,912 posts)
209. You are completely wrong.....
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:48 PM
Dec 2016

My county split in '08, went Romney in '12, but went overwhelmingly Trump in '16. It's not because we can't reach them. It's because the party doesn't even try. These people are reasonable, these people's parents and grandparents were FDR Dems to the core, but if the party just ignores them and their concerns what do you expect them to do? They're not going to pick up the Democratic message by osmosis. It has to be direct to them and their concerns. The Rethuglicans do that through a continual squawk of lies. We don't even make the attempt with the damn truth. As mentioned above, we have a marketing problem so obvious the blind could see it. It wasn't that way in the past. The fact is, when presented with the truth of Democratic ideals, the vast majority of people, even here, side with us. But simply write off the middle of the country and the Dem's can't beat the worst Republican candidate in generations. Wasn't Trump Secretary Clinton's dream opponent back in 2015 - early 2016? Your sentiment is a recipe for continued failure and continued damage to the country.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
210. No amount of marketing will reach them. They chose the racist who will take their health care.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:00 PM
Dec 2016

There is no amount of messaging or contact with them that can penetrate that sort of mindset. They are hopeless and we are better off not even trying to persuade them. Let them wallow in the filth they support.

If you want to think about it another way, try this. They decided to vote for the candidate who will undeniably make their lives worse - and they were aware he would do that - and they still chose him over a candidate who didn't contact them. That's form of electoral self-hate for which we have no solution. Much like a business loss, it's best to just write them off and focus on people we can actually persuade with reason and openness.

paleotn

(17,912 posts)
213. Then we lose and the country goes down the drain
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:12 PM
Dec 2016

Hope you have a valid passport. I certainly do.

They can be reached. I know this personally. But they won't be reached if we don't try. We don't need to reach all of them. Not even a large percentage. A mere 3, 4 or 5% swing in the rural counties would have given NC to Clinton and we'd have picked up a seat in the Senate against a long time incumbent and supposedly unbeatable Richard Burr. We didn't because we didn't try. This side of the state was ignored in favor of Charlotte, the Triad and R-D. You get what you work towards. Don't do the work and you get nothing.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
214. No amount of trying will persuade people who are only interested in destruction and ignorance.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:21 PM
Dec 2016

We need to face the reality that much of rural America enthusiastically supported him because of his overt bigotry. To make matters worse, they did not care that he promised to take away their health care or that Republicans were gunning for Social Security and Medicare. Those certainties mattered less to them than supporting his bigotry and ignorance. Think about that for as long as you need.

We cannot appeal to these people. They do not operate on the same rational plane as we do. They believe and value things which are in complete opposition to what we believe and value. It is a waste of time going after them.

Personally, I look forward to issuing to them a mountain of "I told you so!" comments once he and the Republican Congress totally destroy what's left of their current existence. They brought this on themselves due to their own ignorance and bigotry.

paleotn

(17,912 posts)
216. Did you even read my post?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:53 PM
Dec 2016

Or are you operating on some irrational plane? I agree, some can't be reached. But the error in your argument is you pigeon hole large groups way too much. You're exibiting stereotypical, mental shorthand that's foolish at best. I understand your frustration, but you seem to be arguing from a point of ignorance. People's attitudes everywhere are a continum, like most things in life. We don't need all of them. We just need to make the effort to reach some of them. Just a 3 to 5% swing, a small nudge would have given Clinton NC, period, end of story. PA, MI AND WI were even closer. A 3 to 5% swing in the ex-burb and rural counties of all those states and we'd be talking about a Clinton landslide right now.

But go ahead, rant and rave, stamp your feet and pout, don't put forth any effort and you get exactly what you work for. Despite overwhelming support in urban areas, an orange nightmare in the White House.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
217. You seem to think they can be reached. I don't think they can be reached, hence an impasse.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:04 AM
Dec 2016

They do not want what we offer as a party. Clinton could have visited each and every one of them in their homes over dinner and they still would voted for him.

They had a choice: vote for the candidate who was not bigoted and would not destroy the safety net or vote for the bigot who would destroy it. They chose bigotry and destruction of the safety net over everything else. We cannot reason with people who make choices like that. They chose to turn America into the Hunger Games. That's just unconscionable.

The Venn diagram of their values and our values has no intersection. They are a waste of our time. Let them live in the dystopian hellscape which they prefer. We need to focus on people who do not share that warped vision of our country.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
40. "Some of us have no interest in coddling fools."
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:13 AM
Dec 2016

This is the problem.

Donald won. So, one must ask, who is the fool?

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
41. Ask that question a year from now when they lose their health care and Social Security.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:20 AM
Dec 2016

Yeah, those rural Americans really stuck it to us Democrats, didn't they? They taught us a lesson while those fools cut off their own noses to spite their own faces.

You can't fix stupid as they say in rural America and there is a monumental amount of stupidity firmly entrenched in rural America nowadays.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
42. And you're laying the groundwork for change?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:29 AM
Dec 2016

No, you're building the wall higher.

BTW - 80% of our country is urban. You are the responsible ones if you want to point fingers.

But, you need a scapegoat. It's easier to blame others. I understand but do not agree.

Writing whole groups of people off is a sure way to keep the results you deride.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
48. I have zero interest in changing rural America so that they join the rest of us in the 21st century.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:35 AM
Dec 2016

Let them wallow in the backwards, Lord of the Flies land they prefer to reside in now.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
61. Nope. Unlike them I am more than happy to let them live by their rules in their backwards USA.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:53 AM
Dec 2016

They are the ones foisting upon others their repugnant views of what this country should represent. We would be better off if they let the rest of us live how we want while we let them live how they want.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
247. Democrats have tried to help them and have succeeded when given a chance.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:40 PM
Dec 2016

Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:49 PM - Edit history (1)

However rural, white voters have a Stockholm syndrome relationship with Republicans so they keep electing them. I refuse to sell my soul in order to embrace such ignorance and win their votes.

Abq_Sarah

(2,883 posts)
249. Tried to help them?
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:07 PM
Dec 2016

Do you understand how condescending it is to suggest to rural voters that they must be educated to understand the truth, light and way? How about not treating them as if they were a different species.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
252. They could act like they are not a different species by joining the rest of us in 2016 America.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:51 PM
Dec 2016

It's not the early 1800s, no matter how many of them want to return us to that time.

Kilgore

(1,733 posts)
255. Thats OK, we will just keep on taking their money
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:25 PM
Dec 2016

For food, water, energy, wood products and minerals.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
59. ".....and there is a monumental amount of stupidity firmly entrenched in rural America nowadays."
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:49 AM
Dec 2016

And how intelligent is it to tell stupid, obvious lies about the most popular rifle in the country? A simple mechanical device that millions of Americans understand? To refer to declining violence as an "epidemic of violence"? To deceitfully mislead re. "gun show loopholes"? To toss around trite phrases like "common sense gun control" when we clearly HAVE NO SENSE w/regard to gun violence?

Time to STOP pointing fingers and START looking into the mirror.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
96. They are more interested in their hatred for us
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:59 AM
Dec 2016

Than their own self interests.

How does OP expect us to appeal to these people?

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
119. The people who elected him. Don't forget Hitler won a clear plurality in the 1933 election.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:44 AM
Dec 2016

His party got over 200% more votes than the next nearest party.

 

tomp

(9,512 posts)
137. donald did not win, imho.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:28 PM
Dec 2016

i believe there was hacking of voting, not to mention disproportionate "spoilage" of democratic ballots, not to mention russian and fib interference, not to mention voter registration blocking.

that's not really winning. and therefore there really was nothing wrong with the demo party approach.

however, for me, hillary "winning" would not have been a real win for progress in america, only better than trump.

we must be clear about defining our terms.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
46. You're deciding what's in their best interests?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:33 AM
Dec 2016

Are you going to allow them to do the same for you?

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
52. Someone needs to given how they think their best interests include bigotry, early deaths ...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:39 AM
Dec 2016

a lack of a life-sustaining education and complete ignorance of the ideals on which this country was founded.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
97. Yes
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:00 AM
Dec 2016

They know it to. They just prefer their hatred for us. They'd rather lose their health care where they have a chance to stick it to us.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
55. They ARE voting for their interests if their interest is keeping black and other minorites down
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:44 AM
Dec 2016

JI7

(89,249 posts)
58. yeah, but this goes for people in rural and city areas . i don't care where they are from
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:48 AM
Dec 2016

and the major difference is mostly due to minority voters.

the cities have many more minorities which is why they tend to be much more liberal and dem compared to rural areas which are largely white.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
98. Exactly
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:01 AM
Dec 2016

And that is more important to them than their own health care.

How are we supposed to get votes from these people ?

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
144. Please elaborate. Do you really think rural Americans vote for their best interests?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:16 PM
Dec 2016

Let alone for the best interests of the country. I'm all ears/eyes.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
164. I really think
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:48 PM
Dec 2016

that rural Americans, like all Americans, are people. People with all the potential for the best and worst human potential...just like urban and suburban Americans.

I really think...no, not think, but KNOW, because I see and experience it on a daily basis, that rural people have brains and morals and empathy, and that they are just as good, and just as worthy, as anyone else. I don't think where we live dictates who we are.

I really know that there are assholes and sociopaths and racists and misogynists and greedy capitalists and libertarians and under-educated people and people who are followers of corrupt leaders EVERY FUCKING WHERE: urban, suburban, rural, Republican, Democrat, 3rd Party, Independent, DU and Free Republic.

I really know that the only way to grow the best, instead of the worst, that humanity can be is through community and collaboration, not hate.

I also suspect that the people who are most determined to assign blame are those that know, no matter how deep they try to bury it, that they are part of the problem, not the solution.

I also know that screaming about racism and misogyny while engaging in other forms of bigotry is hypocritical. If it's wrong to hate, wrong to discriminate, DON'T. Don't form teams that legitimize hating the "other" and blaming them for your failures.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
175. Rural Americans shouldn't support politicians who represent the worst of America.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:52 PM
Dec 2016

They consistently vote for politicians who want to make America worse for everyone by

-- taking away voting rights
-- promotingpracticing racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia
-- force feeding their religion down the throats of all Americans
-- denying science in every imaginable way, especially ways that are destructive to our planet and educational systems
-- destroying the social safety net
-- eliminating the ability to obtain health care
-- commandeering control of women's bodies

It's not much a stretch to believe rural Americans support these views themselves. Exactly how and why should we any decent American tolerate people who are hellbent on destroying the American way of life for so many others?

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
196. I have to ask the obvious....
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:31 PM
Dec 2016

How is it you...or any person from any party...decides what's in the "best interests" of a person in a voting booth...that arrogance got us beat in Oh., Pa., Wi., Fl. ,Mi.,....and will every time people see..." If most rural Americans didn't constantly vote against their best interests..." that's not for you to declare or decide.....

I live In NY...SoS Clinton won the cities...got thrashed in the rural areas...the arrogance of your comment makes the rural voters hardened...against us

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
198. Evidently maintaining the health & welfare of oneself, one's family & the planet is an urban ideal.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:42 PM
Dec 2016

I should not be so presumptuous to think Americans prioritize those things.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
200. You continue with the myth....Urban is better than rural....it's not.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:04 PM
Dec 2016

We in the rural areas are extremely family, health, and conservationist aware...
We are on the front lines of preserving nature, caring for our families, and hell.. our neighbors for that matter.

I lived in NYC(Bronx) for 2 yrs while getting my degree...I didn't know 3 people in my building and the mess in the vestibule don't get me started.
I move home I still know everyone, I still pack out my trash after a camping, boating, snow machine trip..as do all my friends.

Absolutely..."Americans prioritize those things"....but it's not just city folks...we country bumpkin Democrats do way more than city peeps.....we have to.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
201. Did you even try to socialize with the people in your building?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:11 PM
Dec 2016

This is something that seems to be a common refrain among rural people, they don't get along with others well unless they already know them.

To give an example, a friend moved to the middle of no where, way out in the country, and they were hosting a "welcome" party for themselves, mostly inviting some friends and family, with a couple of neighbors she socialized with through work. Anyways, talked to this one guy who was the SO of one of her friends(didn't know him myself). And he was complaining about his work, see, he lives in the same area, out in the country, but travels about an hour into the city to work, and he works with black people, and as he put it, he has a "big mouth" and they don't get along. Read between the lines, he's a racist shithead. He's hoping for a transfer to a whiter area for his work, and I say he's welcome to it, but this guy, nor the culture he represents represents America anymore, and thank goodness for that.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
203. "Did you even try to socialize.."....ohh absolutely I tried..
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:31 PM
Dec 2016

But...I was from the "sticks"...an older lady 2 doors down called me "mountain boy"...because I grew up in the Adirondacks....nobody trusted me...the red neck...2 yrs at NYU and I have 3 friends from that time and 2 of them are from Staten Island and 1 is AA.

I don't "Read between the lines,"....I judge on behavior...your experience is different than mine.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
204. Perhaps its because I live in St. Louis, a city that was eviserated by white flight...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:01 PM
Dec 2016

still is to a great extent. Most of the people who live in the more rural and suburban counties are quite open as to why they moved there, to get away from Blacks, Mexicans(we don't even have a large amount of those here), and now Muslims(we have the largest population of Bosnian Muslims outside of Bosnia).

And now its a steady "ring" that's becoming more spread out, first they expanded counties like St. Charles county, turning it into a suburban and exurban place that's 98% white. But now blacks began moving there, so the whites are fleeing ever westward, and, while trying to stay along the i-70 corridor, are beginning to spread out even more, dispersing even further from the city center.

Hell, I grew up in St. Charles, not rural but suburban, and really, it was an isolating place, the idea of "neighborhoods" is a foreign experience out there. The only exception was the poor section I first grew up in, first 10 years of my life, where the neighborhood kids all grew up on the same street.

I've gotten a fair amount of ribbing from people in St. Louis County and City about being from "the sticks". I took it in stride, worked for years downtown, and the friendliest people I met were black rather than white. I remember one year, I was stuck working downtown on Thanksgiving, and one of my coworkers came into work on her day off to drop me off a full fledged thanksgiving dinner with all the fixings. I will say that is probably one of the nicest things someone ever did for me at work.

Now I'm an example of the opposite of previous trends, and probably representative of a new trend, a move back to the center, where the culture, food and people are, all the people, and its fun. We can go down the street on a lazy Sunday and listen to a concert in the neighborhood park, or on Friday go to a different park and try out a bunch of different food from food trucks. The concept of neighborhood, or even having actual neighbors rather than people you happen to live next to is interesting.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
202. The vast majority of rural America does not think or see things like you do.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:16 PM
Dec 2016

You do recognize you are not anywhere representative of the typical rural American voter, don't you? This election proved quite decisively that rural Americans do not care about the health and welfare of themselves, their families or the planet. They voted in historic numbers for a man who does not support any of those things so by extension, they don't support those things, either.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
241. No...you are wrong..."quite decisively" wrong...
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:10 PM
Dec 2016

We most certainly do care about the issues....your lecturing is why we lose those up here...
"....so by extension, they don't support those things, either." Delusional crap and if you stick with that narrative...we are done for decades to come....we've seen it since '10....ass kicking defeats and you seem to not know why.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
242. You may care but rural America's decades long voting streak for Republicans says otherwise.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:37 PM
Dec 2016

Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Should we believe what rural, white Americans say or should we believe how they vote? If they actually do care as you say, their votes certainly don't reflect that care. I personally think their votes represent how they actually view the world. Republicans have done nothing to make their lives better and yet white rural Americans constantly elect them year after year. If they actually did care, wouldn't they change their voting habits after realizing Republicans have done nothing for them?

It is nonsense to think that rural white Americans would rather vote for the party that hurts and lies to them rather than for a party which tries to help them but doesn't talk to them.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
243. Have we done better??? Several election cycles say not.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:08 PM
Dec 2016

Have we Actually talked TO them as opposed to AT them.
Have we listened instead of lectured....of course not.

Maybe they don't want help...."..then for a party which tries to help them but doesn't talk to them".....maybe they just want a discussion, to be heard...your vision didn't work this GE cycle....4 yrs of a moron now....that should be all fun and games...and "help"....

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
245. They no longer have any scapegoats come January 20 so maybe they will finally see the light.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:36 PM
Dec 2016

It's typical that white, rural voters feel so damn entitled that someone has to speak to them, rather than act for them, in order to earn their vote. It's no wonder they don't see the cause of their ills.

We have had exactly two years during the past twenty when we could actually help rural America. We saved a sinking economy and we gave them affordable health care. Republicans have given them nothing but more war and economic hardship. Forgive me for not kissing the ass of these low information, self-centered and foolishly voting white, rural America.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
250. This mindset is exactly why we will continue to take beatings as we have recently...
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:26 PM
Dec 2016

"It's typical that white, rural voters feel so damn entitled that someone has to speak to them, rather than act for them, in order to earn their vote. It's no wonder they don't see the cause of their ills."

'Rurals feel entitled.....need speaking to...'..keep that view...we will lose a larger % of them every cycle you play that card..your better than them attitude will not get you ONE vote now or in the future...
Just telling you.....the rurals KNOW the cause of their "ills".....being told they are entitled or get lectured to... will not be a winning strategy....you don't have to believe me...we just saw the results of that in Oh., Pa., Wi., Fl., Mi., but if you think it a winner....try it again.

Yeah let's do it again....was such an effective plan this year.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
253. I don't agree that rural Americans know the cause of their ills.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:03 PM
Dec 2016

Under your belief, they know the cause of their ills. If so, why do they still continue to empower the party that makes them ill. That makes them knowledgeable and masochists.

I think most of them are too stupid to connect the dots between their ills and the local, state, congressional and now presidential Republicans they continue to vote for decade after decade who actually cause those ills.

Instead of asking them why they don't vote for Democrats, we need to ask them how their lives have improved by constantly voting for Republicans. The answer to that question will either be crickets or bullshit like they aren't going to take away my guns or they don't give my tax dollars to black people. How fucked up is to prioritize owning a gun or racism over having a job or health care or good schools? We cannot reason with people like this and we should not even try. We need to focus our efforts on reasonable suburban and urban voters who actually give a damn about the important things in life. Let rural Americans live out their Republican fantasies that are causing them so much hardship. We can't help people who refuse to help themselves.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
254. You've made that clear....."253. I don't agree that rural Americans know the cause of their ills."
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:19 PM
Dec 2016

You give short shrift to the rurals the aren't a bunch of bark eating tree climbers....this comment ALONE is exhibit ONE....
"I think most of them are too stupid to connect the dots ....."........that mindset...that view of people...is the reason we have the fuster cluck we have today...it's your view.....I get that...you are welcome to it....I choose not to play in that litter box...I choose to discuss issues with those that don't see as I do......not call them "..too stupid..".

I see people as they are,...not as a class of stupid dolts that need Your guidance....
Your vision of voters worked so well this GE cycle right?

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
256. They were offered a reasonable solution this year. They rejected it in favor of bigotry and lies.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:32 PM
Dec 2016

What smart person makes that sort of choice? Similarly, what sort of person thinks that voting over and over for Republicans will improve their lives even though it has not happened once in their lifetimes? There is no reaching people with this mindset and cognitive (in)ability. It is a complete waste of time going after them as they live in a world devoid of reality, intelligence and respect for themselves and society as a whole.

 

Uggwearingdad

(78 posts)
259. Hey...you can live with that vision of those that don't see things your way...
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:01 PM
Dec 2016

"...as they live in a world devoid of reality, intelligence and respect for themselves and society as a whole.".....OR you can engage with them and slowly sway them to different ideas... or just write them off as morons...it appears you have set your stakes on the latter....I, on the other hand, will do the former...talking to people as equals is not a burden for me.....calling them devoid of reality.. intelligence..respect....for themselves....

Just asking, how did that work out on Election day? Just a month+ ago....tell me how well it worked out?

Have fun Ma'am....losing,,, because of the elitist attitude you hold.

I choose to engage..not alienate.

tom_kelly

(959 posts)
211. Someone coddled them and they responded
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:01 PM
Dec 2016

I remember the line from Trump "What have you got to lose?" As much as I loathe this POS, that was a tremendous statement that hit nerve in rural America. On the other hand there was Chuck Schumer who said something like "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” Those rural, blue collar folks don't need fancy education to see the difference in attitudes here. They were faced with two parties who haven't done much of anything for them in recent times and an "outsider", in their eyes, made a lot of sense with that question. You and I know that they have a lot to lose, but, they're frustrated. What they do know is that they have been lied to by "politicians" at campaign-time their entire rural lives.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
212. Except they didn't realize the answer to his question was health care, Social Security & the planet.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:06 PM
Dec 2016

If people are so easily persuaded by a dumb question which they obviously didn't think through, there is no chance we will ever resonate with them and their fragile emotions.

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
7. K&R
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:34 PM
Dec 2016

Love thy neighbor, and help them.

If and when they perceive the Democratic Party loves and will help them, they'll be on our side.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
8. I don't see that many people feeding the city slicker/country bumpkin stereotyping
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:43 PM
Dec 2016

here on DU. Guns are a contentious issue, city folks have ample good reasons to see some stiff regulation of semi auto guns, especially the handguns, while country folks who use them to chase off predators don't see the problem.

A light truck with a 4 cylinder engine out in the country is pretty damned green, IMO.

2naSalit

(86,586 posts)
36. It's pretty much the same where I'm at
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:44 AM
Dec 2016

only I'm in ranching country/public lands in the Rockies, the people treat each other about the same around here. Unless you're getting too nosy or into someone else's stuff, including their side of the fence.

Heck, even I don't drive a four cylinder truck. But my six cylinder still isn't tough enough to haul the horse... but it has enough guts to get through a foot of snow.

Guns, everyone out here has them, even me... haven't shot them in ten years at least-black powder show guns I inherited. My neighbors, they use them for hunting and predators, we have everything out here from wolves to bears and big cats. If you have livestock, predators are a concern, how you deal with them says a lot about how you perceive things like wildlife conservation and public lands. And I am thankful for the organic meat they share with me when they have it and after a successful hunting season.

It's a different world out here. I grew up in the northeastern cities and countryside, it's completely different and the perceptions of folks from out in the rural west aren't ignorant. They do see that one of their freedoms comes in the form of not being involved in politics in any way. The ones who do vote often vote out of spite as much as for anything else because they don't see how their vote actually matters in the end when they see no tangible benefit to having cast a vote or gotten involved in some way. We do get involved in our communities but it often goes no further with many people.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
92. This is an interesting observation. I haven't seen that stereotyping either until after the
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 05:31 AM
Dec 2016

election when this fallacious explanation for the vote was given such a lot of press. Since then, it seems to be coming exclusively from people who identify themselves as rural.

Since the election, though, I've noticed a good number of "poor misunderstood us, we're rural" posts and a number of people who identify themselves as rural who seem to find condescension and insult in statements that have none of either.

Mr.Bill

(24,284 posts)
9. I live in a similar situation.
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:53 PM
Dec 2016

We used to be a red county when I moved here 25 years ago. Bill Clinton never won here. But we are slightly blue here now, and Hillary won this time. I think it's because we are sort of a blue collar retirement community and the baby boomers that have been moving here appreciate their SS and Medicare.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
10. what specific discrimination do you see from other du'ers?
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:58 PM
Dec 2016

has the criticism been specifically directed at you about about public transportation? i think its well known that outside cities, public transportation is not really a thing.

i think people who voted for trump, whether urban or rural, deserve some contempt for voting for an outright racist. this is not restricted to where these people live.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
11. Sounds like
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 11:58 PM
Dec 2016

where I live too.

Big news is when a neighbor's cows escape from the pasture and block the road or there's a really good weekly movie being shown down at the Senior Center in a building which also houses a mini-theater/stage for plays, the police department, and all town offices, which are only open once a week on Mondays between 6 and 9 PM.

Nobody cares what their neighbor's politics are when they're stuck in a snowbank or pulled over with a flat tire.

Sure, there's often some small-town bickering that goes on, but in the end, we all want the same thing...what's best for ourselves and our families, and the only difference is how to accomplish it.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
12. I catch myself feeling...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:02 AM
Dec 2016

that anger towards rural voters at times. It does run both ways, it is rural people that consider themselves "real" Americans.....what does that make the rest of us?

rwsanders

(2,598 posts)
29. I agree, and the media feeds it every election cycle...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:04 AM
Dec 2016

with the interviews with as you said "real Americans", "salt of the earth types" and other ridiculous stereotypes to encourage all of the rest of us to vote like them because of their "simple wisdom".
So let's sample some rural "wisdom":
the gift of Monsanto
a dead zone in the gulf of Mexico the size of Connecticut
Pesticides in our food
Wolves and other predators slaughtered

So while I agree it is not great to pre-judge or pigeon-hole anyone into a category if they don't fit the mold, but rural America isn't any great font of wisdom anymore.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
142. Yep, and
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:06 PM
Dec 2016

people in both places assume that when their areas are dissed, it's they who are being dissed.

Or when people wax poetic about their choice of where to live, the other side thinks they're being disrespected and that's not the case either.


Some people would rather lop off both their arms than live in the country. I can understand that.

There are unkind and nasty people everywhere, and living in a rural area doesn't guarantee you'll have fantastic neighbors. There are definitely pros and cons to both areas.

But what started off this whole rural vs urban "war" was...and still is...the belief that rural people are stupid twits who have ruined the country. Rural people came out to defend themselves, and now we've got a couple of threads full of sarcasm from city dwellers, almost as if the rural people came out swinging first.

meadowlander

(4,395 posts)
161. +1
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:41 PM
Dec 2016

My frustration is with rural voters who think farm subsidies are their god-given right but lord help you if you try to give a nickle to a brown person or some little slut who couldn't keep her knees together.

I don't think the Democratic party needs to pander to people who can't stomach a big tent. If you don't support the social safety net for everyone, regardless of their colour, faith, gender or where they live then fuck off over to the tea party and good riddance.

The Democrats lost because of gerrymandering, voter suppression, complacency and the useless mainstream media, not because they don't have the demographics to win every time.

Skittles

(153,160 posts)
13. relunctantly voted for Trump?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:04 AM
Dec 2016

they may be the worst of all

and I am tired of being told I have to understand rural people when they make ZERO EFFORT to educate themselves

treestar

(82,383 posts)
99. And no attempt to unsderstand
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:04 AM
Dec 2016

Urban dwellers at all. None whatsoever. We live in closer proximity to other people. That leaves them all that space. Surely they don't want us all to move out there!

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
122. I know. Did you catch the insinuation in the OP that he and his rural
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:13 AM
Dec 2016

neighbors are special cuz they help each other out? As if that's some extraordinary thing only rural folk do! Many of these people subscribe to the ridiculous myth that rural and small-town folks are somehow the only real Americans, morally superior to the rest of us.

Yet, we're not allowed to call them out on their (or their support for) racism, misogyny, homophobia, and, most importantly, their willful ignorance.

Also, the reference to not being able to afford a second car. Not sure what that's supposed to prove. Millions of urban people can't afford the first!

Skittles

(153,160 posts)
156. and that is another thing that bothers me greatly
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:58 PM
Dec 2016

the idea that only rural, small-town people HELP each other - IT'S A LOAD OF CRAP - I have lived rural, city and suburban and I have always seen people helping each other - I myself do random acts of kindness almost DAILY

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
171. Yes and it is not something when you live so close to others you would even think to highlight
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:23 PM
Dec 2016

or post about as extra special since it is just life and normal to help out and shovel snow or plow a driveway or talk to people right now about the weather or community in they city area I live in
where many people wait for public transportation and ride together to mutual stops and don't own one car let alone 2 trucks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8374627
And guess what ? it's all kinds of people helping all kinds of people
& not that I would even usually think about that factor either until some almost unintentionally insult , get a high box , and step up on it to look for better accolades and it's like wait a minute no not really I don't think so

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
139. It was frustrating, to be sure.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:41 PM
Dec 2016

I talked to some of them; they simply couldn't, wouldn't, vote for Hillary Clinton. Just as there was a large contingent of "anybody but Trump" voters, there was also a large contingent of "anybody but Clinton" voters from the right. Some of that is the years of propaganda they've been conditioned with; the radios they're listening to as they go about their chores simply don't have anybody to listen to outside Beck or Limbaugh, and they are vulnerable to that propaganda. Some of it was misogyny, no doubt; around here, that misogyny comes from the pulpit. I have learned to deal, professionally, with some who don't treat me as a professional, going over and around to find a man. It's changing, though. My female students don't take a back seat to the boys, and my boys know better than to expect that from them. Young people are the future here, as well as everywhere else.

About half of those I talked to who felt that way wouldn't vote for either; they voted for Johnson.

And, of course, there were a few who really think Trump has their back. It won't take them long to realize THAT error.

Of course, in the end, it didn't matter. HRC won all of this state's electoral votes, and the popular vote. We delivered; and that includes rural areas. The region may not have voted blue overall, but plenty of these rural voters did.

ProfessorGAC

(65,013 posts)
225. No It Wasn't
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 06:06 PM
Dec 2016

It was pompous nonsense
I live in small town at the fringes of Chicagoland
I'm one of 5 millionaires that live here
They were all Trumpians and they automatically figured I was one of them
The OP is completely wrong and we can't fix stupid

elleng

(130,895 posts)
15. 'Rural people don't really feel the love from the Democratic Party.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:08 AM
Dec 2016

I've seen the stereotyping, derision, disdain and discrimination directed at them here at DU, so I certainly understand why they feel that way. . .

There are all kinds of rural situations that don't fit urban wisdom. Democrats would be wise to see the difference, and to be inclusive. Unfortunately, so many are not. I can't count the number of times I've defended rural people over the years here. More so than ever, in the last month.'

Thanks, LWolf

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
16. Some Can Be Won Maybe But...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:12 AM
Dec 2016

I know this...my mom's family in Gallia County, OH hardly had a pot to pee in. That was the plight of a lot of people there. But year after year, election after election, they vote republican.

The poorest county in Ohio is Brown County, it is rural, and they are the most consistently republican county in Ohio.

And I am sorry this was not a normal year, Trump is the most unqualified candidate ever and ever to "win" (he is losing the vote by about 3 million people, Damn the Electoral College). He has the maturity of a petulant 13 year old, he has publicly mocked a handicapped reporter, he has bragged about grabbing we women you know where, and bragged about walking uninvited into a locker room filled with naked 13 year old girls.

So I am giving no quarter to anyone, rural or not, who voted for his loose cannon. It is inexusable in my book, good grief, it was a bridge too far for Glenn Beck.

 

47of74

(18,470 posts)
39. Thank you
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:02 AM
Dec 2016

I'm at the same point. I don't care where people live. If they support the Orange Toxic Megacolon than I think they're slime.

Adsos Letter

(19,459 posts)
24. You write beautifully.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:39 AM
Dec 2016

I also agree with you. I grew up in a semi-rural environment where the things you describe were highly valued.

plimsoll

(1,668 posts)
25. Is this the new "city boy."
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:40 AM
Dec 2016

I’m struggling with this post, because on the one hand I agree that urban people and the Democratic Party don’t seem in tune with rural America. That said my roots are truly small and isolated communities, and this rural urban tension has been there my entire life. I think what’s different is the increasingly obvious shift of political power from rural to urban.

I think the author is honest and trying to get people to pay attention to the circumstances of others, but he oddly managed to highlight the opposite problem. He spoke about quality of life issues that many urban people have lost even when they make more money. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t intended, but it skirts a kind of rural smugness.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
136. No, not intended.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:17 PM
Dec 2016

We are just different. Not better, not worse. While I love spending my life here, I do drive to the city a few times a year for more cultural offerings, and a more diverse environment. I worry about some of my students, who have never been to a real city, or experienced the wider world.

I believe that some of the things I love about both could be embedded in both. First, though, we'd have to end the hostility and reach out.

plimsoll

(1,668 posts)
173. Didn't think so.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:29 PM
Dec 2016

That was actually my assumption, but my son and I read it and thought this is going to annoy people. I can see we were right.

Here’s my take, and a couple people in the Urban Living thread stated as much, but I’d like to make explicit.

Urban communities dictate more acceptance of diversity than is required in rural settings. Rural communities seem to think this is saying they’re racist/bigots/intolerant. Honesty should dictate that urban people acknowledge the diversity in rural communities degree of tolerance. So there is a flashpoint.

Conversely rural communities can achieve a pretty high degree of behavioral homogeneity. Sometimes the social pressures used to achieve that homogeneity is pretty extreme. Many urban people believe this is universal; many rural people want to pretend it doesn’t exist. They’re both wrong, but when the only rural people you hear from are the ones who claim all is wonderful in rural America sometimes applying the same threatening behavior they deny exists what would a rational person believe.

I agree we need to get start talking about these things and finding common ground, but this is not a one sided problem. It’s not all the fault of “Urban elites,” but I wonder how many of your neighbors would even entertain that notion.

We should be careful with our language. My son and I have a relative who moved to a rural community and adopted the stereotyped narrow minded bigotry urban groups seem to believe is the norm. He’s very happy tossing out that we’re Urban Elites, Coastal Elites as derogatory epithets, we deliberately turned the tables and started using Banjo Elites when referring his community. Oddly he didn’t seem to enjoy it.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
27. Let's not forget that if they voted for Obama in '08 then they also probably
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:57 AM
Dec 2016

liked Hillary a lot as recently as 3 or 4 years ago.

Then the GOP lying started. They behaved disgracefully after we were attacked in Benghazi. Then they made up the fake email scandal. Finally, they went after the Clinton Foundation, which they knew full well was an incredible source for good around the world.

Way too many Americans fell for these lies, in cities, suburbs, exurbs and rural areas alike.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
123. It doesn't appear that "they voted for Obama" is exactly true
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:20 AM
Dec 2016

Of course there are isolated instances where this is true (and isolated examples), but by and large it is not true. Obama won because of high turnout in urban and exurban areas and low turnout in rural areas. neither McCain nor Romney could inspire.

tRumps only clearly articulated messages and plans centered around areas of racism, bigotry (of all stripes) and xenophobia. On other issues he was vagues (or simplistically idiotic) ... the largest question should be why did rural voters vote for clearly articulated racism, bigotry, xenophobia and hate?

More than half of President-elect Obama’s victory margin came from votes cast in just seven counties — all of them from the centers of the nation’s largest urban regions. Los Angeles County gave Obama a 1.2 million-vote margin. Other big contributors to the Democrat were Philadelphia County (Philadelphia), Wayne County (Detroit), New York County (Manhattan), Kings County (Brooklyn) and King County (Seattle).

Obama’s vote in the nation’s largest urban counties was overwhelming. In Prince George’s County, Maryland, on the edge of Washington, D.C., the Democrat received 9 out of ten votes. Obama received more than 80 percent of the vote in Philadelphia, Manhattan, San Francisco and the Bronx.

The story of the election, however, was the overwhelming support the Democrats received in the cities. The chart below compares the vote in rural, urban and exurban America in 2004 and 2008. (Democratic victory margins in blue, Republican victory margins in red.) McCain’s margins in rural and exurban counties were less than what President Bush earned in ’04. But Obama’s victory margin from urban communities increased by nearly 10 million votes over what John Kerry received in 2004.

http://www.dailyyonder.com/barack-obamas-vote-cities-overwhelmed-rural/2008/11/19/1767/



This analysis is from 2008 ... nothing makes it untrue now. Stating Obama voters suddenly embraced the racism , bigotry and hatred of trump is ridiculous ... tRump energized the racist/ bigot vote, and they came out to vote (whereas they stayed home in 2008 and 2012).

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
186. THIS,THIS,THIS!!! I wish I could pound this into people's heads.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:33 PM
Dec 2016

YES. it was racism and sexism.

NO. We don't need to pander to it or "understand" it.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
28. They feel excluded.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:58 AM
Dec 2016

Yeah, it's a racial thing, to a great extent for some, and a lesser extent for others. They see our party making a big deal over black voters, the southern firewall in the primaries, a huge GOTV effort in urban areas where there are high concentrations of black voters, high profile public appearances with black celebrities, and so on. S

Some rural white voters get pissed, because they see it as a zero sum game, where gains by black people mean losses for white people. Others feel taken for granted, as if we feel all working class Americans owe us their votes. Others just lose interest, because they don't hear us talking about their issues and interests, so they wander away, looking for a third party candidate, or maybe settling for a fake populist like Trump.

But we don't always understand their mixed feelings and conflicted motives. Here on DU, we lump them all together, and call them ignorant, racists, jerks etc. We write them off, declaring them not worthy of voting for us. We'll see how that works out.

wcast

(595 posts)
30. I too live in rural PA, right at the top of the infamous T
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:10 AM
Dec 2016

My county is majority republican. I knew we were in trouble when I saw the turnout at my poling place. My county had slightly more than 70% of register voters cast a ballot, and 75% of them voted for Trump. 5% voted for someone not Trump and not Hillary. There is nothing that the Democratic Party can say to these voters here, no amount of marketing or reaching out. These people believe they are fighting for their way of life. They really do believe that Trump will make America great again.

They also believe that minorities have it easy, that they receive the majority of government handouts. They believe that minorities are something to fear and that crime rates are soaring. To them political correctness is a major problem and confederate flags demonstrate their country heritage. They are against "Obama" care although every week the local weekly paper has some fundraiser for someone whose insurance, or lack thereof, won't cover their medical bills.

Speaking of Obama, they believe that he is a communist, a Muslim, not American, and some churches in my community taught he was the anti-Christ. The irony is that they don't care about Russia influencing the election and every example given of Trump's ties to Russia is met with denial or a "but Hillary". He really could shoot someone on 5th Ave. and none of these people would stop supporting him.

Mostly though, the people in my community are afraid. The America that they know is fading away, and they believe they are being marginalized. These aren't bad people, they would probably give you the shirt off of their backs. But they are not very introspective. Things will change here, but it will be slow and not because the Democrats suddenly say the "right" things. It will change because th demographics are against the republicans, because the majority of young people today, even where I live, see no problem with marriage equality or people of color.

Things are bad with Trump, but I think we have to let it ride. These people who voted for him have to be made to own him. He, and the rest of his party, can only destroy. They cannot, and will not, make changes that benefit the people in my community, and after four long years, they won't be able to deny that they had been had. The results will speak for themselves.

wcast

(595 posts)
193. In my area many of the brightest do tend to move away.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:06 PM
Dec 2016

Some come back, though. Our three largest industries are the local school district, the hospital system, and the human service system.

DeminPennswoods

(15,286 posts)
107. This +1000
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:16 AM
Dec 2016

It's the same way in my county that abuts Pgh/Allegheny Co to the northwest. There's still some farms and rural areas and mostly it's the old mill towns. But the people here their situations are exactly as you describe.

Patiod

(11,816 posts)
141. Ugh, the idea of Pennsylvanians flying a Confederate flag
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:44 PM
Dec 2016

It has now come to represent countrified instead of traitors or slaveholders. Their great grandfathers who fought for the Union would be rolling over in their graves.

That part of the state has a long history of isolationism and hatred for non-whites. My dad was from there, his people were what he called called coal crackers, and he had relatives in the Klan in the late 40s (distant enough not to be Catholic like us, but close enough for him and my mom to go). Not gonna change.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
149. Great post. My ancestor fought at Gettysburg with the Pennsylvania Bucktails ....
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:29 PM
Dec 2016

they would all roll over in their graves to know that Pennsylvanians are carrying Confederate flags.

this is really about a way of life disappearing, and the desperation for the false promises of Trump.

Response to LWolf (Original post)

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
33. The media doesn't help either.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:21 AM
Dec 2016

I've worked with white people whose main source of distrust toward African Americans comes from what they see on TV, such as riots. (FOX News is especially accommodating in that regard.)

Many of them seemed to genuinely like their African American co-workers, as if in their minds those co-workers must not be the "norm" or something.

doc03

(35,332 posts)
34. I live in rural eastern Ohio this area was heavily Democratic until we lost
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:23 AM
Dec 2016

all our good paying steel and Coal mining jobs. Democrats get the blame because a Democrat Bill Clinton picked up a Republican
bill NAFTA and promoted it and signed it. Never mind it was a Republican bill and they are the ones that pushed free trade, Democrats own it now. Democrats are the ones that have pushed environmental rules which are partially responsible for the loss of jobs in steel
and coal. But also I got to say race is a huge part of it. I would say the biggest thing is BLM immediately comes out against the cop we have demonstrations neighborhoods burnt to the ground then many times it turns out that it was justified when all the evidence is in.
Now I am not saying BLM has anything to do with the cops getting shot but many people here connect it to them.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
138. Race is interesting in
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:31 PM
Dec 2016

my mostly white area.

The largest minority demographic is native; there's a reservation an hour or so to the north. I've spent some time there and talked to their leaders; they do struggle with racism. Not so much among the general population, but among "official" agencies who don't respect them.

I've seen racism here; it's not the norm. Sort of. Our kids, my students, are generally shocked at racist events if we look at a current event. A few have racist tendencies, gotten from their parents, but they keep it hidden, because peer pressure in a small environment where you can't hide or slip through the cracks is something that they don't want to deal with.

The real race issue here is cultural. We have a hispanic community, and they are mostly accepted and included. We have some AA and asian students; most of those, though, are adopted into white families. It's not the skin or hair or features, but the urban culture associated with race that is viewed with suspicion. Just as the rural culture is viewed with suspicion by urban dwellers. It's a two-way street. Here at DU, though, it's just a one-way street, unfortunately.

It's interesting to read through these responses; a careful read shows that not every rural community across the country is alike; there's rural diversity across the nation, just like other demographics. Democrats are supposed to celebrate diversity and be inclusive; at least, I used to think so.

The narrative trying to portray BLM as thugs or domestic terrorists is designed to scare those who aren't there first hand to see the reality, to keep them in racial and cultural blinders. We need a way to overcome that.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
190. exactly - great post
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:58 PM
Dec 2016
The narrative trying to portray BLM as thugs or domestic terrorists is designed to scare those who aren't there first hand to see the reality, to keep them in racial and cultural blinders. We need a way to overcome that.


Divide and conquer are the tools that tyrants and authoritarians have always used. It's stunning to see people on BOTH sides that do.not. get. it.

One things for sure - we ALL better start GETTING it. With climate change, resources, war, etc looming large - we're not going to make it as a species if we just keep calling each other names. Maybe that means the "smarter' ones take it on themselves to start finding a way to build bridges instead of walls.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
222. Yes.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 05:39 PM
Dec 2016

And the very first step is to let go, to stop trying to judge and place people in "friend" and "enemy" groups, stop stereotyping, and be people together. At least, in my opinion.

Darkhawk32

(2,100 posts)
35. If the fact they feel insulted makes them vote against the future of their children,
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:29 AM
Dec 2016

then perhaps what makes them feel insulted is justified.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
37. I just now decided to see how the Amish vote.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:45 AM
Dec 2016

Although most of them don't vote, I wasn't surprised by the ones who do.
http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-vote/

Hurst and McConnell report that in 2004, 43% of Holmes County Amish were registered to vote, though only 13% did so, with most selecting Bush (An Amish Paradox, Hurst and McConnell, p 267)..


The Amish are strongly independent and support each other. Probably like many other rural voters, they don't consider many federal government programs as necessary in their lives.

People who are married (family support) are less likely to vote for Democrats compared to single people too.

If Trump and Republicans cut programs like Social Security, something that many people take for granted because "they paid into it," there will be a major change in attitude.


Docreed2003

(16,858 posts)
38. Thank you for this...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:52 AM
Dec 2016

I grew up in rural TN north of Nashville. I now work in the community hospital where I was born in the town that folks I grew up around called "going to the city". I now proudly serve the same rural community I grew up in as a part of my patient base. So much of what you wrote I can completely identify with.

It really does hurt to see so much disdain for rural America on a forum like this. To write people off and insult them only plays into the misconception and stereotypes that some in the rural community have towards liberals.

We must strive to be a party of inclusion. We need leadership who are not afraid to put boots on the ground and actually listen and empathize with people from the tobacco fields of TN and NC, the corn fields of the Midwest, the economically devestated areas of the rust best, the fruit farms of California, the coal mines of KY and WV, the inner city struggles of places like Detroit and Baltimore and on and on and on. We cannot continue to claim to be a party of "the people" if we are making no tangible effort to reach all people. If we go out, get our hands dirty, and then fight like hell for all communities, then we can potentially begin to turn to RW tide in this country.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
44. Bravo! Outstanding post!
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:31 AM
Dec 2016

When I was 16 I visited the farm that my father grew up on, and it was a life-changing experience. Funny how "loving tolerant progressives" are able to broad-brush an entire group of people as ignorant, backward scum. Then there's our stupid, obvious lies and "common sense solutions" relating to gun violence that rural people correctly identify as culture war.

I've grown bitter and pessimistic. We're never gonna learn, and we'll keep losing winnable contests. Doug Applegate lost to Darryl Isshole by less that 2,000 votes. Why do you suppose that was?
 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
45. The Democratic Party used to be known for helping the little guy in the small towns.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:32 AM
Dec 2016

And protecting them from the Republican elites who would sneer down from the big cities.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
64. they see equal rights for minorities as sneering at them
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:56 AM
Dec 2016

trump just arrived ? he has been around for decades . they love him for the birther crap that he pushed.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
73. my point is that racism is a HUGE part of their support for Trump and all the elites crap is bs
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:03 AM
Dec 2016

shown by their support for Trump who you claim just arrived.

when he spend Obama's presidency pushing the birther crap.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
104. +1, why are some ignoring the empirical data on Benedict Donald stoking racial animus to win? Obama
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:35 AM
Dec 2016

.... didn't run against overt racist during his campaigns.

If he had he would've lost those places by bigger numbers

The people who voted for Benedict Donald made more than the avg American and was concerned about immigration and terrorism.

Not pocket book issues

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
103. They voted for Trump because he's a white male and stoked racial animus ... period. There are no ...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:30 AM
Dec 2016

... EMPIRICAL (meaning NOT guessing) explanations and I'd rather look at facts more than other peoples feelings.

Benedict Donald is the worst kind of stereotype of liberals and then some... he even condescends to his crowds.

He stoked racial animus to win... why is that so hard for some to accept ?!

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
91. Lol! It still does that. It's just that those little guys now like to vote for the Republican
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 05:25 AM
Dec 2016

elites who sneer down at them. Because, you know, they want to stick it to the Democrats. Take that, Democrats!

JI7

(89,249 posts)
67. Trump didn't just arrive on the scene. he has been pushing Birther crap during Obama's entire
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:59 AM
Dec 2016

presidency.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
72. fuck anyone who voted for Trump. no matter where they live . and they did it over shared bigotry
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:02 AM
Dec 2016

they love trump for the birther crap.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
76. i get what the OP is doing. but the OP doesn't want to acknowledge the real reason they supported
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:05 AM
Dec 2016

trump.

which IS about bigotry.

why didn't they vote for Feingold ? does feingold sneer down at them ?

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
78. You're broad-brushing, and as a result I'm done with you.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:07 AM
Dec 2016

The whole point of the OP dealt with the counter-productive nature of broad-brushing, and the hypocritical bigotry.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
87. Whoosh! (The sound made as the point of the OP sails over your head.)
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:55 AM
Dec 2016

Maybe if you were degraded as a hick and a dumb-ass redneck your entire life, Trump's bigotry wouldn't have the same effect on you! We're supposed to be the group that's capable of empathizing with people with whom we don't have much in common.

You seem to think that bigotry based on national origin and/or skin color is worse than bigotry based on a rural lifestyle. LOL! The (unstated) point of the OP was that Democrats have some self-examination to do, and that there may be some hypocrisy involved in the manner we play the 'racist card'. But you just can't find it within yourself to look at that mirror.

Now I'm truly done here. You clearly have no desire to get to the meat of the OP.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
88. Hillary Clinton didn't attack others as hicks or rednecks. but TRump DID attack others
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:00 AM
Dec 2016

people who voted for Hillary weren't voting for someone who was degrading them .

but the ones who voted for Trump DID vote for someone who degraded others from hispanics, blacks, disabled, etc.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
106. These are some of the same people who voted for Obama... of course Obama wasn't running against
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:40 AM
Dec 2016

... an openly racist person either.

Empirically the data shows it was immigration and terrorism... indentity politics issues

R B Garr

(16,951 posts)
82. Meh, not feeling it. No one kisses California's ass*
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:14 AM
Dec 2016

and yet MILLIONS of people here got it right and voted accordingly.

*yes, politicians do stop here, but generally California is taken for granted.

And California is scorned by many of the flyover states, but we still get it and vote accordingly. A lot of these rural demographics are so used to being catered to, to their own detriment.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
85. I found your last finger wagging sentence offensive
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:38 AM
Dec 2016

I grew up in Queens, New York City and moved west at 30. I'm 70 now. I checked out this map of how neighborhoods in the city voted in the presidential election of this year.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/numbers/clinton-trump-president-vice-president-every-neighborhood-map-election-results-voting-general-primary-nyc
When I studied the red areas on the map I knew why they voted the way they did.
It didn't have anything to do with being rural.

How do we reach those people? Fuggeddaboutit. They aren't reachable. Things are visceral. The divide is too great.
Do you even dare talk politics with your neighbors?

If people in rural areas or NYC vote in ways that only causes them problems then they'll have to suffer greatly before they wake up. Trump is a temporary drug that made them feel good during their hateful circle jerks. When the drug wears off and the sweats and chills set in they'll either get it or go into denial. The mommy Party won't be able to do a thing.
They'll have to come to conclusions on their own.

I'm not in awe of your philosophy about the camaraderie of rural people or the notion of too little inclusion in the Democratic Party. And I don't feel any guilt after reading about the wonderful rural folk who cared about your safety soon after they voted for Trump. By that vote they've helped to set in motion a havoc in this nation. I believe that people will die because Trump voters are hateful sonsabitches who would rather embrace the whiteness of Putin and tear us asunder than accept that a black president and liberal Democrats who by the courage of their convictions pulled this country out of an economic shithole these past eight years.

marybourg

(12,631 posts)
155. Like you I grew up largely in Queens.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:55 PM
Dec 2016

My experiences, both in Queens and in Manhattan, where I worked, were much like the OP's. People came together in helping groups in times of difficultly, like making storm preparations, subway strikes, blizzards, etc.. This is a human quality, not a rural one.

It was on display for all the world to see during and after 9/11.

oldtime dfl_er

(6,931 posts)
86. Instead of dividing us
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:48 AM
Dec 2016

by rural and urban, how about getting back to the bottom line of what we can all agree on? How about we just start over, and cut back to the bones of what every one of us, farmer and IT tech, rancher and retired person, teacher and artist, believes in? Shouldn't we all be saying I believe in the Constitution. I believe in the Golden Rule. I believe in freedom and the Bill of Rights and the rule of law and I believe we have at least some mutual goals.

I live in a large city. I have never owned a car. I walk, and I use public transportation. I don't own a house, a boat, a horse, land, a gun. I'm an artist, and I am pretty poor. When I have extra money I give it to Planned Parenthood and the ACLU. I choose to live the way I do, as do you.

I'm tired of being lumped in with "coastal elites" and "blue city liberals". We're all different and we're all the same.

I am tired of the divisiveness that is all around me. I'm tired of everyone pointing out how they're DIFFERENT from the city folks, or the rural folks, or the southern folks, or the libtards or the morons on the alt-right.

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but I kind of got upset at the OP. I understand what he is trying to say, but the seeds of divisiveness are sown in this kind of post, for me anyway.

"For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal." -- JFK

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
89. Urban living.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 05:19 AM
Dec 2016

Last edited Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:07 AM - Edit history (1)

When a storm is coming and we go to the grocery store, we chat without becoming impatient or grumpy too. We don't cut people off on line either. We don't run down the pedestrians in the parking lot either.

We help out our neighbors too. Some of my neighbors own guns too. About the gun issue, we understand that no one is trying to take away those guns, we all just want sensible gun laws in the light of the gun idiocy that is in the news every day.

There are a lot of urban situations that don't fit rural wisdom. We don't expect rural people to twist themselves in knots to understand us. It just isn't necessary.

What we expect from our political party is a solid platform that benefits us and works against the party that steals from us, punishes the vulnerable and lies constantly. That's all. We don't require that everyone soul search themselves about why we are unhappy. If we get the platform we want, we will take care of our own happiness.

People criticize urban people. All the time. They make generalizations. They post threads about how rural people are civil human beings and imply that urban people are not. We don't give much of a shit. We don't punish the nation by voting for a madman because rural people look down on us.

Seems to me the big difference is that we don't vote like imbeciles and then demand understanding when the shit comes down.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
125. Thank you!
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:33 AM
Dec 2016

The rural folk look down just as much at city folk as vice-versa. This holier than thou BS in the OP is a perfect example.

He tries to paint his rural life as special because people help each other out. As if that's some extraordinary thing only rural folk do! It's that same old ridiculous myth that rural and small-town folks are somehow the only real Americans, morally superior to the rest of us.

Meanwhile, by so many measures, measures by which they judge others, they are inferior. Look at divorce rates, drug addictions, domestic violence, etc. Yet they consider themselves superior.

But we're not allowed to call them out on their (or their support for) racism, misogyny, homophobia, and, most importantly, their willful ignorance--supporting the politicians who create their troubles and then blaming the Dems for not "appealing" to them. We're supposed to not be offended by them voting for a lying, cheating, sexually predatory, nasty, handicap-mocking, fraudster.

Sorry, not buying that BS.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
134. Well, you know. Apparently not mowing down the pedestrians in the parking lot is
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:00 PM
Dec 2016

a rural thing. I live in a New York city. We have a point system for who we mow down in parking lots, and the city scoreboard is up in the town hall. It's how we roll in the cities.... right over people.

Can you believe this self congratulatory nonsense?

eleny

(46,166 posts)
165. Hey, my high school had a class - Advanced Elbowing
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:50 PM
Dec 2016

Ya gotta leave it those NYC Catholic nuns. They knew how to educate for the real world.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
168. Omg, I had them in elementary school. Some bruisers, for sure.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:01 PM
Dec 2016

But in HS we had all different orders teaching different subjects. Dominicans for Math and Sciences. Hard core!

DemocraticWing

(1,290 posts)
94. I grew up in the country. Your story is very, very relatable.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:41 AM
Dec 2016

I know in my hometown, Trump did very well, but also a lot of people didn't vote. Are all my old neighbors and friends racists, or are most of them just not plugged in to politics? I know these people, and a lot of them just don't give a crap about it all. We gotta reach those people, in my opinion.

I also know how people on DU act towards rural people. They paint with broad brushes because they can't imagine that left-wing country people exist. That gay country people exist. That country people of color exist. They just want to generalize a whole area and a whole culture as bad. It's the same thought process that racists use: and I know, because I'll admit that some racists existed where I grew up and I saw how they think.

Of course with people who hate rural folks, just like racists, it's never entirely true when they say "oh I don't hate you, you're one of the good ones." Their hate is based on something that's mostly a figment of their imagination that has completely altered their view of people different than themselves. If they could accept that we're a lot like the people they hate irrationally, they wouldn't care for us either.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
95. What derision from DU?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:58 AM
Dec 2016

I've never seen that.

Conservatives accuse us often if being crybabies. Most of these people are conservative. Why are they whining for attention? They tell us to just stop crying and get a job. The latest is to calll us snowflake or buttercup.

They will never respect us for being nice to them.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
102. I live in rural Idaho.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:13 AM
Dec 2016

It's my opinion that the election was lost due to the abandonment of the 50 state strategy Obama used so effectively in 2008.

Even though Obama lost Idaho, it was easy for me to organize a voting block of people who were excited about such a transforming figure in American politics.

This year, however ,I was only able to gather four people together to come to the polls with me.
Many of the so called rednecks around here voted for Obama, they had enough of Bush. Some of them were not afraid to shout it out loud either

We should not abandon states where we are not doing well.

ananda

(28,859 posts)
111. Sorry but it's too late for all this handwringing ..
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:27 AM
Dec 2016

.. and knickertwisting over the flaws or failings of the Dems
as opposed to rural people who hate Dems because .. reasons.

We are ALL screwed now.

The rural people literally allowed the criminal sociopathic Reeps,
as vassals to Russia now, to take our country hostage and ruin
everything we hold dear.

It has human extinction written all over it, but not before Putin
and his cronies become all-powerful and filthy rich.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
112. Indeed. Laughing, because we too built a temp waterline to the neighbor's when their well failed
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 08:31 AM
Dec 2016

That's rural life across the nation, from Vermont to the deep south.

Neighbors mean a lot. People try hard to take care of each other. The fundamental ethic is Democratic. Obama did quite well for the most part in these areas. We can get them back. Most people are decent and many are worried, and they are aware that the big cities have no concern for their real problems.

It worries me that the dialogue has been so contemptuous and despairing on DU post-election, esp. toward this demographic.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
113. Excellent post.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:00 AM
Dec 2016

I live part of the time in a blue city because I care for my mom who is 90.. But I work in a red county and have 26 acres of land there.

I know my neighbors out there much better than the ones in the city.

And they're just like your neighbors. They genuinely care about me, and would show up to help in a heartbeat if needed.

They also know I'm gay, a Dem, and a woman.

The DU OPs that look down their noses at rural people simply make me chuckle. Most of these posters couldn't grow a parsnip if their lives depended on it.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
115. Cwydro, you know I love you, but I'm sorry I have to say this. Look at your post.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:26 AM
Dec 2016

This rural/urban - I don't even know what you would call it - rivalry? It's one sided. As an urban person, I have never had a conversation in which people complained about rural people until rural people elected Donald Trump. And then, frankly, there was very good reason to complain.

I am glad that you know your rural neighbors. My urban neighbors would show up in a heartbeat if needed too. Your post seems to be saying that urban people don't do that. If that is what you believe, that is you making a snap judgment based on limited experience, and it is you looking down on urban people. Just the thing that rural people are complaining about all over this board.

Who is looking down on whom in your post? "Most of these posters couldn't grow a parsnip if their lives depended on it." Please. What is that? And PS, parsnips aren't that difficult.

I've seen a lot of these posts here lately in which rural people say, "we're so misunderstood and special, and the urban people will never understand." Well you know what? Rural people don't have any better understanding of the urban experience. This is just how it is. But rural people seem to be saying that is some kind of insult.

You know how us urban people feel about the rural people's ignorance of our way of life? We just don't care. It isn't your town's job to understand my town. How rural people think of urban people (which your post shows is often negatively) doesn't impact us at all. Yet I get a sense since the election that rural people are highly resentful and sensitive about how they think urban people think about them, and that is being tossed around as a large part of the reason rural people voted for Trump.

Well. If that's not idiocy, I don't know what is. So if rural people need others to start thinking about them more respectfully (though why that would matter, I can't begin to understand) they should stop voting like imbeciles and putting us all in every kind of danger there is.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
124. I only see this rural versus urban thing here on DU.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:31 AM
Dec 2016

And there've been MANY threads putting down the rural folk.

Perhaps I've missed the ones dissing the urbanites.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
133. Your own post disses urbanites. I don't see it as a big deal, but apparently when it goes the other
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:57 PM
Dec 2016

way, it is a big enough deal to make people vote for a madman. And frankly, that's really dumb.

Vinca

(50,269 posts)
114. I wish my neighbors were as considerate as yours re guns.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:17 AM
Dec 2016

Every so often it sounds like war games on our otherwise peaceful, rural hill.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
116. Fuck em,I hope the stupid fucks suffer all the misery their racism and sexism deserves.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:32 AM
Dec 2016

They are not fellow americans to me.

senaca

(209 posts)
118. Humanity
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:42 AM
Dec 2016

In reading your explanation of rural life and neighbors helping each other, I think it's fair to say that the same could be said in most communities regardless of whether they live in rural, suburbia, or in cities. It's what makes us great as a country. We get together and help each other when needed. We care about our neighbors/neighborhoods. We help those who need help. This is what we build on.

Starting with getting involved locally to try and make it better for the community on a local level. Letting people know that this is what we stand for as democrats. Having a neighbor elected to office that you know on a local level, to keeping it local on a county and state level.

dembotoz

(16,802 posts)
120. No problem with ur truck..u use it
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:04 AM
Dec 2016

Can't haul much in a yaris. I know that for a fact.my best friend owns one. My complaint was being at a suburban hockey rink and my minivan was the smallest vehicle there..
Did not see working trucks I saw conspicuous consumption trucks
..u need a truck..god bless

Kilgore

(1,733 posts)
121. One of the best posts i have read on DU in quite a while.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:10 AM
Dec 2016

Our county has no stoplights either and a population of less than 4,000 In many ways it mirrors yours.

Over history, it has been both deep blue and deep red depending on the candidate. Recently it went for Obama twice, and now Trump.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
127. Good grief, seriously?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 10:44 AM
Dec 2016

Rural folk look down just as much on urban folk. They sneer just as much at us as we do at them. Case in point, your talking about people helping one another as if that's the special province of rural folk. It's ignorant, condescending, and utter nonsense.

And, by the way, there are all kinds of urban situations that don't fit rural wisdom. And considering that fact that rural people make up only 15% of the population, it makes sense that rural "wisdom" not take precedence.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
140. Or that neither take precedence,
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 01:43 PM
Dec 2016

and that flexibility be used to apply what's appropriate for the setting as well as the situation.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
184. As if a vote for Trump was not a vote for their group's wants, needs, and prejudices,
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:28 PM
Dec 2016

to take precedence over those of the rest of us. Trump made it pretty damn clear he would use his presidency to oppress the same people lots of rural folk despise.

Oh, and nice job ignoring my other points. Let me repeat, in case you missed them:

Rural folk look down just as much on urban folk. They sneer just as much at us as we do at them. Case in point, your talking about people helping one another as if that's the special province of rural folk. It's ignorant, condescending, and utter nonsense.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
223. Actually, I didn't acknowledge that "point"
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 05:50 PM
Dec 2016

because I don't know that it's true; you saying it doesn't make it so. In the real rural world, I haven't heard sneering at "city folk" from my neighbors. I have heard the opposite, repeatedly, right here at DU. Your responses are the perfect example. You are doing what you accuse others of doing.

I HAVE lived in cities as well as in rural areas. People in cities will help each other; I'm not going to paint anyone with a broad brush, unlike so many here. It tends to be more organized. My experience in cities is that people are in a bigger hurry, and make less eye contact with strangers, let alone have actual conversations. But that's just my experience. It would be foolish to suggest that it's always that way, and I didn't. I simply pointed out a single after-work errand in my town, and I did so with accuracy.

I can't speak for Trump voters, since I'm not one of them, and I won't stereotype them into one monolithic lump like you are doing.

I will say that I believe that many of the votes for Trump weren't about Trump, but about the demand for change that the Democrats turned their backs on. That's what some of the Trump voters I've talked to have said to me, anyway. Whether they are outliers or not, they ARE real people having a real conversation. I truly wish Democrats would have offered the change people were craving; if we had, we wouldn't have gotten Trump. But that's water under the bridge.

I also really understand why so many Democrats, and so many DUers, need to find a scapegoat; online politics are about ganging up to find an enemy to hate, not to reach out and try to end hate. The more you want to fight about it, the more you make that point for me. Either you want to hate and blame, or you want to move forward to address the issues; the latter requires reaching the people who didn't vote the way you did, not attacking them.

No matter what, though, broadbrush stereotyping is a kind of bigotry, and it happens here at DU on a regular basis, often from the same people who attack others for bigotry.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
235. I am not looking for a scapegoat, I'm looking for facts to explain the outcome of the election.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:06 AM
Dec 2016

The popular narrative that it was based on economic concerns is not supported by the facts.

According to a broad swath of popular understanding, Donald Trump will be the next president because he narrowly won three critical states -- Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- powered by working class voters frustrated with economic intransigence.

But that's not what exit polling shows in those states, to Southpaw's point. Exit polls show Hillary Clinton winning a majority of the vote from people who told pollsters that the economy was the most important issue facing the country. What's more, in each state, a majority of voters said that was the case.

In fact, if we extend that out to every state for which we have exit polling, in 22 of those 27 states a majority of people said that the economy was the most important issue. And in 20 of those states, voters who said so preferred Hillary Clinton. In 17, in fact, a majority of those voters backed Clinton.
More here.

Even if it were about economics, it stands to reason that most Democrats are going to find it hard to understand, much less respect, anyone who voted to make a blatantly racist, lying, cheating, handicap-mocking, pussy-grabbing, self-aggrandizing, intemperate bully president of our country.

Your OP seemed to have two main points:

A. Rural folk are better than city folk.

Your "Stopping at a Store before a Storm" story seemed meant imply that rural folk are somehow better than city folk, despite that fact that the behaviors you describe are simply not extraordinary.

People who live in more populated areas are simply not going to talk to or make contact with every person they pass. Mainly because it would be logistically impossible, but I'm sure many people simply prefer to mind their own business and have others do the same. So what? That does not make rural folk superior.

And, by the way, your saying rural people act one way and not another doesn't make it true either. One side of my family is from rural Virginia, and just about every single one of them speaks of "city folk" with an air of superiority, often outright disdain. My husband has family in the rural mid-west, and they have the same attitude.

And it's likely that I'm not the only one here who speaks of rural people from personal experience that differs from yours.

B. You wish Democrats would have offered the change people were craving.

Which changes exactly do you imagine they were craving? Which of these accomplishments of the Obama administration had them so hungry for change that they were willing to elect the racist, lying, cheating, handicap-mocking, pussy-grabbing, self-aggrandizing, intemperate bully candidate over the candidate who was likely to continue with the Obama agenda?

1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems.

2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs.

3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide “living wills” to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers’ money for their own profit, and creates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (now headed by Richard Cordray) to crack down on abusive lending products and companies.

4. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.

5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year.

6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered.

7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: In 2009, injected $62 billion in federal money (on top of $13.4 billion in loans from the Bush administration) into ailing GM and Chrysler in return for equity stakes and agreements for massive restructuring. Since bottoming out in 2009, the auto industry has added more than 100,000 jobs. In 2011, the Big Three automakers all gained market share for the first time in two decades. The government expects to lose $16 billion of its investment, less if the price of the GM stock it still owns increases.

8. Recapitalized Banks: In the midst of financial crisis, approved controversial Treasury Department plan to lure private capital into the country’s largest banks via “stress tests” of their balance sheets and a public-private fund to buy their “toxic” assets. Got banks back on their feet at essentially zero cost to the government.

9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Ended 1990s-era restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.

10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: In March 2011, joined a coalition of European and Arab governments in military action, including air power and naval blockade, against Gaddafi regime to defend Libyan civilians and support rebel troops. Gaddafi’s forty-two-year rule ended when the dictator was overthrown and killed by rebels on October 20, 2011. No American lives were lost.

11. Told Mubarak to Go: On February 1, 2011, publicly called on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to accept reform or step down, thus weakening the dictator’s position and putting America on the right side of the Arab Spring. Mubarak ended thirty-year rule when overthrown on February 11.

12. Reversed Bush Torture Policies: Two days after taking office, nullified Bush-era rulings that had allowed detainees in U.S. custody to undergo certain “enhanced” interrogation techniques considered inhumane under the Geneva Conventions. Also released the secret Bush legal rulings supporting the use of these techniques.

13. Improved America’s Image Abroad: With new policies, diplomacy, and rhetoric, reversed a sharp decline in world opinion toward the U.S. (and the corresponding loss of “soft power”) during the Bush years. From 2008 to 2011, favorable opinion toward the United States rose in ten of fifteen countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, with an average increase of 26 percent.

14. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Spending: As part of the 2010 health care reform bill, signed measure ending the wasteful decades-old practice of subsidizing banks to provide college loans. Starting July 2010 all students began getting their federal student loans directly from the federal government. Treasury will save $67 billion over ten years, $36 billion of which will go to expanding Pell Grants to lower-income students.

15. Created Race to the Top: With funds from stimulus, started $4.35 billion program of competitive grants to encourage and reward states for education reform.

16. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards: Released new fuel efficiency standards in 2011 that will nearly double the fuel economy for cars and trucks by 2025.

17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis: To keep world economy out of recession in 2009 and 2010, helped secure from G-20 nations more than $500 billion for the IMF to provide lines of credit and other support to emerging market countries, which kept them liquid and avoided crises with their currencies.

18. Passed Mini Stimuli: To help families hurt by the recession and spur the economy as stimulus spending declined, signed series of measures (July 22, 2010; December 17, 2010; December 23, 2011) to extend unemployment insurance and cut payroll taxes.

19. Began Asia “Pivot”: In 2011, reoriented American military and diplomatic priorities and focus from the Middle East and Europe to the Asian-Pacific region. Executed multipronged strategy of positively engaging China while reasserting U.S. leadership in the region by increasing American military presence and crafting new commercial, diplomatic, and military alliances with neighboring countries made uncomfortable by recent Chinese behavior.

20. Increased Support for Veterans: With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, increased 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. Also signed new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.

21. Tightened Sanctions on Iran: In effort to deter Iran’s nuclear program, signed Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act (2010) to punish firms and individuals who aid Iran’s petroleum sector. In late 2011 and early 2012, coordinated with other major Western powers to impose sanctions aimed at Iran’s banks and with Japan, South Korea, and China to shift their oil purchases away from Iran.

22. Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants: New EPA restrictions on mercury and toxic pollution, issued in December 2011, likely to lead to the closing of between sixty-eight and 231 of the nation’s oldest and dirtiest coal-fired power plants. Estimated cost to utilities: at least $11 billion by 2016. Estimated health benefits: $59 billion to $140 billion. Will also significantly reduce carbon emissions and, with other regulations, comprises what’s been called Obama’s “stealth climate policy.”

23. Passed Credit Card Reforms: Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act (2009), which prohibits credit card companies from raising rates without advance notification, mandates a grace period on interest rate increases, and strictly limits overdraft and other fees.

24. Eliminated Catch-22 in Pay Equality Laws: Signed Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in 2009, giving women who are paid less than men for the same work the right to sue their employers after they find out about the discrimination, even if that discrimination happened years ago. Under previous law, as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., the statute of limitations on such suits ran out 180 days after the alleged discrimination occurred, even if the victims never knew about it.

25. Protected Two Liberal Seats on the U.S. Supreme Court: Nominated and obtained confirmation for Sonia Sotomayor, the first Hispanic and third woman to serve, in 2009; and Elena Kagan, the fourth woman to serve, in 2010. They replaced David Souter and John Paul Stevens, respectively.

26. Improved Food Safety System: In 2011, signed FDA Food Safety Modernization Act, which boosts the Food and Drug Administration’s budget by $1.4 billion and expands its regulatory responsibilities to include increasing number of food inspections, issuing direct food recalls, and reviewing the current food safety practices of countries importing products into America.

27. Achieved New START Treaty: Signed with Russia (2010) and won ratification in Congress (2011) of treaty that limits each country to 1,550 strategic warheads (down from 2,200) and 700 launchers (down from more than 1,400), and reestablished and strengthened a monitoring and transparency program that had lapsed in 2009, through which each country can monitor the other.

28. Expanded National Service: Signed Serve America Act in 2009, which authorized a tripling of the size of AmeriCorps. Program grew 13 percent to 85,000 members across the country by 2012, when new House GOP majority refused to appropriate more funds for further expansion.

29. Expanded Wilderness and Watershed Protection: Signed Omnibus Public Lands Management Act (2009), which designated more than 2 million acres as wilderness, created thousands of miles of recreational and historic trails, and protected more than 1,000 miles of rivers.

30. Gave the FDA Power to Regulate Tobacco: Signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (2009). Nine years in the making and long resisted by the tobacco industry, the law mandates that tobacco manufacturers disclose all ingredients, obtain FDA approval for new tobacco products, and expand the size and prominence of cigarette warning labels, and bans the sale of misleadingly labeled “light” cigarette brands and tobacco sponsorship of entertainment events.

31. Pushed Federal Agencies to Be Green Leaders: Issued executive order in 2009 requiring all federal agencies to make plans to soften their environmental impacts by 2020. Goals include 30 percent reduction in fleet gasoline use, 26 percent boost in water efficiency, and sustainability requirements for 95 percent of all federal contracts. Because federal government is the country’s single biggest purchaser of goods and services, likely to have ripple effects throughout the economy for years to come.

32. Passed Fair Sentencing Act: Signed 2010 legislation that reduces sentencing disparity between crack versus powder cocaine possessionfrom100 to1 to 18 to1.

33. Trimmed and Reoriented Missile Defense: Cut the Reagan-era “Star Wars” missile defense budget, saving $1.4 billion in 2010, and canceled plans to station antiballistic missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic in favor of sea-based defense plan focused on Iran and North Korea.

34. Began Post-Post-9/11 Military Builddown: After winning agreement from congressional Republicans and Democrats in summer 2011 budget deal to reduce projected defense spending by $450 billion, proposed new DoD budget this year with cuts of that size and a new national defense strategy that would shrink ground forces from 570,000 to 490,000 over the next ten years while increasing programs in intelligence gathering and cyberwarfare.

35. Let Space Shuttle Die and Killed Planned Moon Mission: Allowed the expensive ($1 billion per launch), badly designed, dangerous shuttle program to make its final launch on July 8, 2011. Cut off funding for even more bloated and problem-plagued Bush-era Constellation program to build moon base in favor of support for private-sector low-earth orbit ventures, research on new rocket technologies for long-distance manned flight missions, and unmanned space exploration, including the largest interplanetary rover ever launched, which will investigate Mars’s potential to support life.

36. Invested Heavily in Renewable Technology: As part of the 2009 stimulus, invested $90 billion, more than any previous administration, in research on smart grids, energy efficiency, electric cars, renewable electricity generation, cleaner coal, and biofuels.

37. Crafting Next-Generation School Tests: Devoted $330 million in stimulus money to pay two consortia of states and universities to create competing versions of new K-12 student performance tests based on latest psychometric research. New tests could transform the learning environment in vast majority of public school classrooms beginning in 2014.

38. Cracked Down on Bad For-Profit Colleges: In effort to fight predatory practices of some for-profit colleges, Department of Education issued “gainful employment” regulations in 2011 cutting off commercially focused schools from federal student aid funding if more than 35 percent of former students aren’t paying off their loans and/or if the average former student spends more than 12 percent of his or her total earnings servicing student loans.

39. Improved School Nutrition: In coordination with Michelle Obama, signed Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act in 2010 mandating $4.5 billion spending boost and higher nutritional and health standards for school lunches. New rules based on the law, released in January, double the amount of fruits and vegetables and require only whole grains in food served to students.

40. Expanded Hate Crimes Protections: Signed Hate Crimes Prevention Act (2009), which expands existing hate crime protections to include crimes based on a victim’s sexual orientation, gender, or disability, in addition to race, color, religion, or national origin.

41. Avoided Scandal: As of November 2011, served longer than any president in decades without a scandal, as measured by the appearance of the word “scandal” (or lack thereof) on the front page of the Washington Post.

42. Brokered Agreement for Speedy Compensation to Victims of Gulf Oil Spill: Though lacking statutory power to compel British Petroleum to act, used moral authority of his office to convince oil company to agree in 2010 to a $20 billion fund to compensate victims of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico; $6.5 billion already paid out without lawsuits. By comparison, it took nearly two decades for plaintiffs in the Exxon Valdez Alaska oil spill case to receive $1.3 billion.

43. Created Recovery.gov: Web site run by independent board of inspectors general looking for fraud and abuse in stimulus spending, provides public with detailed information on every contract funded by $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Thanks partly to this transparency, board has uncovered very little fraud, and Web site has become national model: “The stimulus has done more to promote transparency at almost all levels of government than any piece of legislation in recent memory,” reports Governing magazine.

44. Pushed Broadband Coverage: Proposed and obtained in 2011 Federal Communications Commission approval for a shift of $8 billion in subsidies away from landlines and toward broadband Internet for lower-income rural families.

45. Expanded Health Coverage for Children: Signed 2009 Children’s Health Insurance Authorization Act, which allows the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) to cover health care for 4 million more children, paid for by a tax increase on tobacco products.

46. Recognized the Dangers of Carbon Dioxide: In 2009, EPA declared carbon dioxide a pollutant, allowing the agency to regulate its production.

47. Expanded Stem Cell Research: In 2009, eliminated the Bush-era restrictions on embryonic stem cell research, which shows promise in treating spinal injuries, among many other areas.

48. Provided Payment to Wronged Minority Farmers: In 2009, signed Claims Resolution Act, which provided $4.6 billion in funding for a legal settlement with black and Native American farmers who the government cheated out of loans and natural resource royalties in years past.

49. Helped South Sudan Declare Independence: Helped South Sudan Declare Independence: Appointed two envoys to Sudan and personally attended a special UN meeting on the area. Through U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Ambassador Susan Rice, helped negotiate a peaceful split in 2011.

50. Killed the F-22: In 2009, ended further purchases of Lockheed Martin single-seat, twin-engine, fighter aircraft, which cost $358 million apiece. Though the military had 187 built, the plane has never flown a single combat mission. Eliminating it saved $4 billion.
Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments


KPN

(15,644 posts)
129. Great OP. I agree 100%.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:29 PM
Dec 2016

I also live in a rural area; a very remote one, and have for the past 28 of my 66 years. You hit the nail on the head.

What I have seen in my time here is a rural people falling behind, their children having to move away just to find a menial job let alone a decent job. Over my time here, the County I live in has become increasingly Republican -- partly because they feel like they've been ignored ... by Washington as well as the State (which is dominated politically by democratic leaning urban areas) ... and partly because their resource based economy has been increasingly restricted by environmental regulations and processes that inadequately consider and balance local socio-economic impacts with benefits. (I say this as a retired natural resources manager who frankly has a preservation not just conservation bias.)

These are people who are simply trying to survive ... and preserve their community. As recently as the mid-70s, this County consistently voted Democrat in national elections, but that has not been the case since then. They are good people. I believe they are misguided in embracing of the GOP, but the Democratic Party has not done a good job in addressing their economic needs, especially in the face of GOP disparagement of big government. But I believe we can win them back -- if we pay attention to them ... and do a better job of addressing their needs. We just need to be open to them. They are good people.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
183. One more time: those for whom the economy and jobs were the most important issue
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:26 PM
Dec 2016

in the rural areas consistently voted for Hillary. Those with other agendas - which were the majority - voted for Trump.

In the swing states which were the surprise Trump wins and which gave him the winning electoral vote margin, unemployment was under 5% in all of those states.

I know you are going to say, "but they are menial jobs!" The new jobs in urban areas are menial too, but urban areas voted for Hillary. The good jobs went away because of all the people in red states who have allowed Republicans to bust unions. Also, if those in the menial jobs had voted for Hillary, we would have gotten a national minimum wage, which would make those jobs a whole lot more attractive.

One more time: these people who voted for Trump did not do so because they are "simply trying to survive." They are not "simply trying to survive" any more than the rural and urban voters who voted for Hillary. Those people who voted for Trump did not vote for him for that reason.

This idea that we need to pay attention to them and address their needs is also bull. The democratic platform did just that. It had practical jobs plans, plans to build economies in particularly hard-hit areas, and plans to create a safety net in the meantime. It worked on practical solutions to their needs. They didn't vote for that. They voted for the guy who treated them like idiots, lied to them so transparently that they knew he was lying to them, and appealed to their sexism and bigotry.

The only way we will get them back is to step back and let them experience the ramifications of the "lesson" they are teaching the Democrats. That "lesson" will cost lives, both for us and for them. They've just enrolled in Trump University, and they are about to get an education.

PufPuf23

(8,774 posts)
132. The urban folks that denigrate and lump the rural
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 12:50 PM
Dec 2016

have urban and foreign demographics to which they also feel superior.

They are a big part of what has gone so wrong.

Wearying.

PufPuf23

(8,774 posts)
179. My point is more of those in superior social position defining those of lesser position as
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:01 PM
Dec 2016

the "other" (whether rural, urban, suburban, or foreign) and because of that superior social position presume inherent right to know what is best.

The "superior" get to call the "other" names, misattribute motive, and hold in contempt (as they lose the elections for us all).

I am all for an inclusive Democratic party.

What has occurred is that the segment of the Democratic party took upon themselves in their "superiority" to insult and marginalize "the lesser" so as these "superiors" made losers of us all.

How is that working?

The Russians are out to get you!!! Or maybe look in the mirror.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
199. Frankly speaking, as this election shows, rural whites have far too much political power...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:50 PM
Dec 2016

its to the point where, if this division between government representation versus actual demographics continue, we will have a de facto apartheid regime. We already do in a few states already. This situation is untenable and we need to get the Republicans out of power both federally and in as many states as possible by 2020 if we are to even try to rectify the damage done by the redistricting of 2010.

There are other structural issues that date back anywhere from 100 to 200 plus years ago that causes rural areas to have far too much representation, but that's something to tackle in a different post.

The fact is that, for years, rural voters have lorded it over urban voters, and with good reason, population wise, they outnumbered them. But now the tables are turning and rural lifestyle is becoming a fringe in society, rather than a centerpiece. For most of America small town America is dead, and for a lot of people, its good riddance to bad culture.

The issues with rural America aren't unique to it, lack of opportunity is, however, and there's little anyone can do about it. When you don't have the population density to support service industry jobs or the infrastructure to provide services to your own population, then there are few options left. Any new factories that open will be employed by a fraction of the people they did before. We can continue the massive subsidies that rural people enjoy even if they are unappreciative of them, but those aren't sustainable for much longer.

The only thing I would recommend Democrats do is lie to rural voters, and lie massively, say that yes, they are going to open the factories, mines, smelters, etc. again. As long as we get a majority by 2020, I don't care.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
206. Great post.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 09:33 PM
Dec 2016

It does seem like lying to them is the way to success. I recommend we add the buggy whip industry and the bustle makers to that list of businesses we will bring back.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
218. LOLOLOL!!!!! NO, you're wrong. The "big part of what has gone so wrong" are the imbeciles
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:47 AM
Dec 2016

who voted for Trump.

You can blame everyone and their brother for "making" those imbeciles vote for Trump, but those imbeciles voting for Trump is what went wrong. The blame is on their heads and no one else's.

This need to blame it on everyone but the people who actually voted for a madman is becoming hilarious.

Missn-Hitch

(1,383 posts)
147. I am guilty of it. However, same could be said of rural folks attitudes towards city slickers.
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 02:27 PM
Dec 2016

We are more than baby killers, homosexuals and atheists.

I have lived in both.

Enjoyed your post. Cheers.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
162. Us vs them is part of the plan....
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 03:44 PM
Dec 2016

divide and conquer, and it's working. This rural/urban war("those people" are taking your hard earned money, the infamous welfare queen), has been stoked intentionally by right-wing radio and politicians for decades and we have all fallen for it. We need a way forward, a way of thinking of ourselves as Americans, and find ways of working together. It's a matter of survival, the survival of our democracy.

Autumn

(45,071 posts)
169. Yep, people in our rural voted for Obama both times and this time it was Trump
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:05 PM
Dec 2016

who got their vote. They can yell and scream bigotry and racism all they want but they are wrong. I think it was partly the gun issue and partly the republican problem with Hillary.

LeftInTX

(25,305 posts)
172. I was in northern WI this summer
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 04:23 PM
Dec 2016

This county is extremely rural. It only has a population of 14,000. (It is so rural, I think the main businesses are bars, a few grocery stores and people who cater to summer vacationers and hunters) I saw Bernie and Trump signs, but no Hillary signs. This county voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. It voted for Trump in 2016.

As a matter of fact there were many rural WI counties that voted for Obama in both 2008 and 2012. Unfortunately, the voted for Trump in 2016.

 

resistance2016

(86 posts)
181. I'd say 95%
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:16 PM
Dec 2016

If I'm wrong, I apologize to the OP, I honestly do. I'm just sick and tired of being demanded that I "sit and listen" to the "problems" of people who, if you talk to them long enough, WILL out themselves as racist, sexist, or homophobic... They NEVER listen to me, so why am I obligated to listen to them?

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
185. True, I've been to rural and near rural places where, being white, I end up witnessing...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:29 PM
Dec 2016

cringe worthy remarks. Sometimes I speak out about them, too often I'm silent to maintain the peace. Its just awkward all around.

Not saying whites who live in more urban areas are less racist, but even those who are racist have a tendency to suppress it more or simply don't bring it up as often.

hatrack

(59,585 posts)
178. Y'know, I live in the city, and I regularly HOLD DOORS for people!
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 05:37 PM
Dec 2016

I keep an eye our neighbors' houses when they're out of town, and sometimes take care of their pets.

I have been known to chat with total strangers waiting in line at the grocery store, and sometimes even while walking down the street.

I shovel and salt the sidewalk in front of our house so that our neighbors won't slip and fall. I don't cut people off in traffic, or in line, and I carefully watched for pedestrians this morning as I drove down icy streets.

In fact, on a number of occasions, I've left my house or car to help total strangers push their cars out of a snowdrift, or across a patch of black ice - and all of the above took place in the soulless, evil, elitist city.

If you cannot perceive the condescension oozing from your post about "all kinds of rural situations that don't fit urban wisdom", my condolences.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
188. I remember one time, a tire blew and we were in the big bad city...
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:38 PM
Dec 2016

pulled into a gas station, pulled out the jack that was with the car, you know, those crappy screw jacks?

Anyways, a guy in a truck let me borrow his much better jack and helped change the tire. Of course I thanked him profusely and then we both went on our way. A scene I'm sure is repeated in rural areas all the time, except for possibly one difference, I'm white and the guy who helped me was black. How would this have played out in the reverse I wonder out in rural areas?

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
189. But, hatrack, you DO run down pedestrians in parking lots, don't you? Because if
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:44 PM
Dec 2016

you don't you can't really consider yourself an urban person. I learned that on DU. I had never actually run down a pedestrian in a parking lot, but I remedied that by running down three of them this afternoon. So it's all good.

And PS, you sound like all of my urban neighbors. And like a nice person.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
192. I am going to have to report you to the Society for
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:04 PM
Dec 2016

the Preservation of Urban Incivility, Spitefulness and Grumpiness in Checkout Lines.

I'm sorry. It's the rules.

 

resistance2016

(86 posts)
180. Do white people plow their black neighbor's driveway too where you live?
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:06 PM
Dec 2016

They don't where I live. Where I live, the hunters shoot where ever and at whatever they want. Where I live, I notice white people helping other white people, but ask them to help their black neighbor and they'd probably punch you in the face.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
182. Excellent!
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 06:22 PM
Dec 2016

I guess you'd call the North Star Borough (county) rural.............. moose in the back yard, bears rock IF you keep your distance, wolverines in the nearby swampy area (frozen now), ravens overhead (mine I call Quoth), lynx in the hills.

A 4WD is IMPERATIVE. Mine's a Jeep, and on good paydays, gets 18 mpg. And can get down that swampy road - and back up it.

I've never NOT voted Dem. It doesn't work up here a lot (oil Pukes everywhere) but we DID get Byron Mallot as Lieutenant Governor! AND he's Tlingit!

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
195. Too much tribalism and conformity for my tastes
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 07:29 PM
Dec 2016

I'm from the country and live in the city now. Your account of the rural life seems like fiction.

I like cosmopolitanism. I feel more connected to others in the big city than I ever did in the country. I feel more in common with people in London than I do with people where I'm from. But then again, I'm gay. We gay folk are outcasts in small towns.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
226. I like both.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 06:12 PM
Dec 2016

For the most part, I like the quiet, the wide open space, the natural landscape, the smaller community, and the open friendliness, neighborliness, of the people. My account was a simple and accurate telling of one errand after work, and of my neighbor. It's real.

I also like to visit the city when I can for the "cosmopolitanism." I'm aware of the positives and negatives of both. I didn't write this OP to put anything or anyone down. Unlike the other posts about rural people that I've seen recently.

Being gay in a small white christian environment can be very difficult. Most of my middle school students stay in the closet until they get to high school. Our local high school DOES have an energetic glbt/straight alliance group. Many of my straight students join it when they get there; being a small community, they come back to tell me all about how high school is going.

Currently, I have one student who is out of the closet, and she is accepted by her peers, and comfortable with them. To be honest, the only advocating I've had to do for her is with her other teachers.

I also have a former student, at high school right now; he came out to us here at school but not to his parents. He came out to them when he got to high school. They are in denial, have accused me of somehow influencing him to think he was gay, and threatened a law suit. He's in pretty bad shape right now. That's not because of his peers, though, who have formed a solid net of support around him.

That's one of the drawbacks of rural living; it's dominated by organized religion, and often fundamentalist extremist religion. There are also ecumenicals, agnostics, atheists, and a whole variety of other non-christian faiths around; they just aren't as loud, and often not as organized.





 

SubjectiveLife78

(67 posts)
229. You just like a different tribe and different kind of conformity
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 07:54 PM
Dec 2016

Which is fine. Everyone does. The biggest difference today from actual tribal days, is that we have more choice in which tribe we want to live in.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
239. I think the implication is the rural conformity excludes LGBT people, whereas the conformity in...
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:56 PM
Dec 2016

cities would be to exclude those who are openly bigoted towards LGBT people. The urban tribe, in this instance, is the better tribe, so to speak.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
215. Can't speak for everyone who disagrees with you, but I am not angry with or scapegoating those folks
Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:44 PM
Dec 2016

I believe that everyone is responsible for their vote and has a responsibility to research A LOT before handing the keys to a 17 Trillion Dollar economy and 10,000 nuclear weapons to someone.

I think a lot of people didn't bother to do the required research to make that vote properly. We are already seeing that with a fair amount of Trump voters panicking that they might lose their Medicare, or lamenting that the guy who said he was going to drain the swamp is hiring billionaires for his cabinet.

Those folks are going to learn a harsh lesson about what voting GOP gets them.

That's all that we Democrats need to win back the congress and Presidency.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
224. I agree with all of that.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 05:55 PM
Dec 2016

Although I might say it from a less partisan place, that isn't about Republicans or Democrats but about people.

It's telling that, to one degree or another depending on the source, there are more independent voters by percent than Ds or Rs. I think that's the wave of the future.

Afromania

(2,768 posts)
219. At this point
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 03:41 PM
Dec 2016

Last edited Sun Dec 18, 2016, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)

It doesn't matter what they may think about themselves but they bought the label, and now all Trumps nasty stuff belongs to them. And by relation, any animus people are going to muster up for Trump will be directed at them too. Rural voters bought it, they bought ALL of it and all sales are final.

If they didn't want the title slapped on them they had one choice and that is to say nope to that fucker Trump. Rural voters decided not to acknowledge his overt bigoted, misogynistic, criminal, greedy, petty, mean spirited, small minded, vindictive, cruel, dis-loyal, hypocritical, dishonorable behavior. All it took for them to change their vote from Democrats to Republican was a few completely ridiculous and unfounded promises about jobs and walls.

Both California and New York voted overwhelmingly Hillary and she didn't campaign in either state. Poor people in these states and elsewhere were able to understand that voting for Trump is not a vote for anything resembling economic relief. Why did rural voters need to be hand held, coddled and schmoozed into voting for the best interests of the ENTIRE country, not just their own little particular area. The recovery wasn't fast enough for them so they killed us ALL instead.

What conceit that rural voters show when they tout their "small town-ness" and "rural living". Carting it out to paint themselves as the picture of "salt of the earth" folks that should have their poorness and suffering prioritized above t all else. Do you think that people living in/around large cities don't stand in lines and share stories? That we don't help each other when things are going tough? Well I have to tell ya when you aren't on the higher end of the economic spectrum, which is MOST of the people that live in these areas, you have to help each other just the same. Your neighbors hunt and bring you elk and venison.

My neighbors watch children for free in a market where childcare is stupidly expensive so parents can work for peanuts to pay their bills. Share any technical knowledge, skill, and general know how they have because to hire a professional would cost the kind of money they don't have. We are more or less EXACTLY like rural voters clawing and fighting to get along, but nobody EVER tosses a lick of respect the way of the urban poor.

Maybe urban voters should become more self interested in our particular struggle. We should all just ditch the Democratic Party and hold our votes hostage in order to get somebody, anybody, to put some money into schools that are so pathetically understaffed and overstuffed that the kids that graduate are actually under-educated compared to their peers. These kids have to compete in a job market that's already been filled to the brim with those migrating from elsewhere. They have to directly compete with the same immigrants that the rural voter is so concerned with. Somehow we've found the wisdom to not spend two generations throwing the rest of the country under the bus to assuage our own egos. We've reached the point where even burger joints are beginning to ask for associates degrees and the jobs that don't are perfectly willing to underpay and/or use undocumented work. With all of this happening we STILL didn't vote for Trump.

Ya know there are all kinds of urban situations that don't fit rural wisdom. Nobody is going to ascribe any sort of "noble" intent to our actions though. The exact same things that are hard on you are hard on us but we don't deign to flip flop and vote the country under the bus because only words are ever put to our problems. We're forced to be the bulwark against this nonsense because the rural voter is stuck in it's conceit that somehow it's all about them. Well fuck that nonsense because you, I, we, them, are all hurting in EXACTLY the same ways. We will continue to hurt until the day rural voters say that WE are with YOU in the fight to make things right. Until then rural voters are going to keep doing this to us to maintain their "salt of the earth" self image and lifestyles.


Ok, I've rambled enough.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
251. Beautiful post.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:39 PM
Dec 2016

This exactly:


Both California and New York voted overwhelmingly Hillary and she didn't campaign in either state. Poor people in these states and elsewhere were able to understand that voting for Trump is not a vote for anything resembling economic relief. Why did rural voters need to be hand held, coddled and schmoozed into voting for the best interests of the ENTIRE country, not just their own little particular area. The recovery wasn't fast enough for them so they killed us ALL instead.

LisaM

(27,808 posts)
227. Or maybe they didn't feel they'd come out ahead in the last 8 years.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 07:13 PM
Dec 2016

I am not knocking Obama's efforts, but I don't think he was out connecting with the electorate much since 2012. I haven't gained much in the last 8 years either, and I am in a large, liberal city. I think it's valid to reflect on why rural people feel left behind and how they think the Obama presidency failed them, in other words, we have to examine more than just the campaign to see why voters felt alienated.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
228. Well, that's all very nice, but I still don't think
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 07:49 PM
Dec 2016

that their votes should count for more than mine, as they do.

More than 2.8 million of us didn't count at all.

 

BRToldschool

(8 posts)
231. I was mortified when Hillary called people deplorable
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:27 PM
Dec 2016

I mostly lurk. Because I am experiencing a similar reaction, to the vilification of our rural brothers and sisters. I am not rural, but I have plenty of family who are rural. I also have plenty of family who are on opposite sides of the the national divide, regarding Trump and Clinton. Most of the Clinton voters were not thrilled with her, but saw her as the only sensible option. Ironically, most of the Trump voters felt the same. Because they had various problems with Hillary. Most of them still know how to keep the peace around a holiday dinner table, too.

I am not sure we, as a country, know how to do this anymore.

And the thing that bothers me, is that we put a lot of stock in the concepts of compassion and empathy, yet we get behind the kinds of hyperbolic and vindictive statements being hurled at non-urbanites.

I was mortified when Hillary called people deplorable. It didn't matter whether or not this is an accurate assessment. It doesn't matter if Trump is horrible. She was evicting millions of Americans from the conversation, based purely on the assumption that urban Democrats are an ascendant, permanent demographic and political majority. Which we aren't. We only hold a majority so long as we speak to 3 out of 5 Americans. And even then, we have to look at the remaining 2 out of 5, and say, "We know you think our policy is wrong, but we value you as brothers and sisters regardless; maybe there will come a day when we can agree."

That is how you convince people that you have their interests at heart; by not taking away their humanity, even if they're not supporting you or your party the way you wish they would.

I don't know anyone (Democrat, Republican, or otherwise) who ever changed her mind, because she got called a name.

Hillary should have won this election, no question. But how much of the responsibility are we (the rank and file) willing to acknowledge?

I feel like we (the people who pride ourselves on reaching out and embracing everyone who is different) have gotten too comfortable defining who gets to be a good person, or not. Often using alarmingly arbitrary, non-nuanced criteria.

To be blunt, we don't persuade anymore. We just call names, and get angry when we don't have our way.

And I am sorry to say this, as my first post on this amazing forum.

Initech

(100,068 posts)
233. I was too. It was the 2016 version of Mitt Romney's 47% comment.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:23 AM
Dec 2016

And just like the 47% comment it backfired hard. Then the Comey letter happened and it was all downhill from there.

 

BRToldschool

(8 posts)
234. Yes! I thought exactly the same thing!
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:31 AM
Dec 2016

I agree 100% with your assessment. When I saw that Hillary had actually said what she said, I instantly thought of Romney's 47% comment. We excoriated Romney for it. I was aghast that Hillary went there too. Such a needless, destructive comment. But it spoke volumes. And people heard her.

kgnu_fan

(3,021 posts)
232. I totally understand your view and feeling you expressed. Well written. Thank you.
Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:32 PM
Dec 2016

I live in a rural but cosmopolitan atmosphere of Boulder County in Colorado. We are surrounded by rural farming community where much of our food come from. We have lots of horse properties all around our area. We have a few small towns with no traffic light. We have many hunters in our community. We have large public land. Yet we also have Google and IBM in town. We have one of the fastest optic cable internet run by municipality. Many of us are latte sipping, Prius driving, yoga loving, environmentally correct "progressive" bunch of people, who do understand 100% of what you are describing and we do live the kind of value you have so beautifully written about. Our community is a stronghold of Dem. ---- and I feel sad that, for the last several years, I started to feel estranged from DU, became uncomfortable to read many of threads, let alone say anything here, because of the hostility towards people like us who share the kind of sensibility and value of rural American life.... somehow so-called establishment Dem does not want to include us in conversation anymore ----

So it was such a pleasure to read your post. I felt at home. Thank you so much.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
248. I love how this is always presented as a one-way street.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:43 PM
Dec 2016

Fortunately, I've spent enough time in rural USA and urban USA to know this miscommunication and lack of empathy is in no way unidirectional.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
257. That's simply not true.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:51 PM
Dec 2016

It might be if you changed "always" to "often" or "sometimes."

And it is certainly a two-way street. I didn't present it any differently.

I get that neither urban nor rural people often have enough understanding of what life is like out of their own bubble to understand what the "other" is saying, but listening helps.

Frankly, I know that rural folks do at least some listening; that's how Obama won my rural region.

Still, my post is a simple accounting of my community. I think it's important, after the stereotypical broad-brush bashing we've been getting here, that it be pointed out that our rural communities are made up of people. They aren't bad people. They have a lot to offer, and they'd join the conversation, just like the majority did for Obama, if they felt listened to.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
260. Many people here are emotionally invested in their candidates....
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 10:23 AM
Dec 2016

...in the same, almost pathological way a teenager is emotionally invested in their favorite rock stars. Rather than take a serious look at what those candidates did or did not do throughout the course of their campaigns, they blame the electorate for not having the "good sense" to vote for the "clear choice", failing completely to understand why others might not see their choice as being particularly clear or sensible.

In other words, it's easier to throw rural folks under the bus than it is to admit your hero fucked up. So under the bus the rural folks will go, despite their being natural allies against the financial elites who have infiltrated the highest offices of the land.

As for my reaction, I suppose I've spent too many hours listening to ignorant people complaining about "city folk".

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
261. Yes.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 04:33 PM
Dec 2016

And, of course, by extension, admitting that the candidate "fucked up" might just mean that the supporters themselves "fucked up" by backing a poor candidate. THAT will NEVER happen.

napi21

(45,806 posts)
258. Nice post, thank you. I grew up in a rural area like yours. Unfortunately, it's become all built
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:56 PM
Dec 2016

up and is no just another suburban area. Over the years, I've found that there are many different rural communities. Some are as you described, some are made up of al relatives who prefer to keep it that way. (My husband's relatives are like that!) Most people have no idea what living in a rural small town is like. They can't relate to someone doing you a favor just because they're your neighbor. Most wouldn't know what to do if someone gave them a stringer of fish someone had just caught. They really don't understand the enjoyment felt by a father hunting with his son. I have no idea how anyone can explain the enjoyment and feelings of rural living to urban or even sub-urban people. I believe neither understands the other, and that's a real problem.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
262. I believe that
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 04:39 PM
Dec 2016

my neighbor also fixed my gate without saying anything to me; I've been struggling with it for a few years. He helped me get it back on when it fell off the hardware once. I keep thinking I'll get my son and grandson out to help with the permanent fix. It takes at least two people with backs strong enough to lift it off and back into place, and someone with hand/wrist/arm strength enough to loosen, rotate, and tighten a metal gate post embedded into the fence post. I kept forgetting, and having to hammer the gate UP to keep it from falling off; this week, I opened the gate, looked to see if it were coming loose again, and...it was fixed.

This is the same neighbor who drops off fresh produce from his acres of garden throughout the season, on his way to the local farmers' market.

We really need to understand each other.

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