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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn Vietnam Our Troops Did Not Refuse To Fire Back Because We Did Not Want To Be Like The VC/NVA.
Having been in Vietnam I do not remember any of our troops refusing to fire back or take the offensive because "we did not want to be like them". Or we did not want to "dirty ourselves" by getting down in the pig pen. I am so god damned sick of this phony self righteousness. Being boy scouts has gotten us to where we are right now.
As far as I am concerned I won't help an avid Trumper even in a crisis now. Take away my health care I won't help you get yours and I may even deny you care. Act like a bigot or a racist I won't just defend I will go on offense and give you the time of your life that will ruin you day if you resist. We really are at war with these people because they are telling us they want US eliminated or silenced. They say STFU and get over it. Well I will more than get over it, I want to make your life tumultuous and miserable. Why. That is because you insist you really won't leave me alone, LGBTQ alone, hispanics alone, blacks alone, sick alone, disabled alone et al who are not like you.
The only good GOPPER is a miserable one. The brutal truth right now is we do NOT have a single thing common with these bastards. And we will not change their black hearts either.
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cwydro
(51,308 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Just as it did in Vietnam.
hadEnuf
(3,616 posts)in the 1930's too.
How'd that work out?
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)So my history book talking about how FDR had to fight isolationism was wrong? I should ask for a refund.
hadEnuf
(3,616 posts)instead of trying to win their hearts and minds?
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Demonizing continuously the very people whose minds we need to change will benefit us in future elections.
atreides1
(16,799 posts)Some are racists, some are bigots, the religious fanatics will stick to their faith, you have men who hate women, you have women who hate women!
You have Gay Republicans who are willing to be put back into the closet, because they believe it will fill their wallets! You have people of color who were most affected by the voter suppression of the Republican party, and still they voted for Trump!
That's a whole lot of mind changing and unless you're immortal, it isn't going to happen in your life time!!!
I believe that the only effective way to change their minds is to let them suffer along with the rest of us, some may look at how foolish they were, some may die, but I really don't think that the majority will change their minds, because they're a group of arrogant f**k's who will never admit they made a mistake!!!
we can stop calling them all the names you just called them and sit down, talk, LISTEN and understand why they voted the way they did. I understand there are those who are racist, etc., and those are beyond help. It doesn't mean we can't work with everyone else.
Only by understanding can we come up with a plan of action to alleviate their fears.
Failure to do so means rethuglicans will have a veto-proof majority in the Senate in 2018 and more losses in 2020.
Proceed the way you will, you're free to do so, but I, personally, think it's the wrong thing to do.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)Yet they hate him more than ever and want his time as President totally erased and forgotten. Of course trying to listen might still be worth a try but I doubt it.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)haele
(15,403 posts)I've listened to them - four of them, here in California, without asking anything, juat let them have their say.
Behind all that churchy, teabagger crap, it boiled down to the fact that they voted for Trump because it was a big fuck you to American politics, laws, regulations, taxes, and everything - their feelings were basically that no one was listening to them.
All these policies are being made without them, for their own good, whether they wanted that "own good" or not. No one in power seemed to take the time to pat them on the hand and throw them a bone, so they can feel in charge of something in their lives.
And of course, politics chases money, so it seemed to the that "both parties are the same..."
That's where the Trump voters who weren't induced by racism or misogyny or greed come from. And realistically, neither political party can change the way these voters want them to change, unless they focus significantly more of their outreach into the very local and obscure local governance positions races rather than state or national races.
Haele
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Isn't that why we (DU, not necessarily me. I'd have been happy with either) supported Bernie? He was an outsider, promising big change to the current status quo, exactly as Trump has done.
And you're correct local races are just as important, if not more, than national races. It's where the "bench" comes from. Right now, we have no bench, just a bunch of old people who have been around forever, yet promise a new direction.
The country doesn't want that. They literally want a new direction, as difficult as it is for establishment Dems to realize that.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)During most of these yrs of recovery, a dramatically decreasing poverty rate has not accompanied the low unemployment numbers.
Many of the people who are stuggling very hard were paying attention in 2008 and instantly associate Goldman Sachs with corruption. According to some, they preferred Trump because he "didn't need their money." Others reasonably saw very little difference between the two in terms of wealth and looking out for the wealthy, but that one was criticizing politics in a way they liked to hear. The other was bragging about governmental accomplishments they didn't feel. Not in the 90s and not over the past 8 yrs.
I agree there are a lot of variables that influenced Trump voters. Writing them all off without even making an effort to understand what was happening will not help us.
This is what will....
"outreach into the very local and obscure local governance positions races rather than state or national races."
In his press conference yesterday, Obama also mentioned a need to focus our ground game at state and local levels.
I've heard this too.
Calculating
(3,000 posts)Just look at what they're doing in NC. Even when Dems legitimately win, the Rethugs just rig the system even more. Look at Trump's cabinet picks. Not an ounce of bipartisanship or compromise there. Despite losing the popular vote, the Republicans are basically taking a "We won bitches, deal with it" stance.
One might think that Trump and the Republicans would be working to heal the divide right now. Instead, it seems that they're tearing it open wider and pouring rock salt into the wound with sadistic glee.
No compromise, no working together, no forgiveness for Republicans. IMO the progressive states of America just need to leave the union at this point. They're underrepresented due the EC, and the Rethugs clearly don't want them as part of our country anyway.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Simply pointing out a different way to do things, because I want to win.
UTUSN
(77,795 posts)
0rganism
(25,647 posts)of course they'll encourage us to be civil and act normally and "just get over it", while they sharpen their knives for the next attack.
we have reached the end of what can be gained through cooperation with racists, misogynists, xenophobes, homophobes. what we presented as symbols of good faith they took as signs of weakness. when we stood firm, they howled about overreach and infringement. there can be no bargaining, not anymore.
