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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSerious question: Why are so many older white men so mean and angry looking/acting. I see
Last edited Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:43 AM - Edit history (1)
a lot of older people, and they seem to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders. I don't get it. They also look so snarly. I notice it mostly in the US.
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)and I've been looking particularly mean (although I'm female) because I'm mad as hell that Trump will be president! Other than that, I'm a pretty happy gal.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)don't know about the sane part, if it was ever here or not
bdamomma
(63,799 posts)but women think differently than men, we are more nurturing, and we are not quick to start a freaking war/s and we are more pragmatic. Don't shoot the messenger, just my opinion.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)Women are hard wired to be nurturing. Men are hard wired to be protectors.
They see their strength waning, and the community/country they protected is changing and they are powerless to stop it.
The deposed silverback isn't happy.
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Get up, turn on the TV, watch the news, go work, come home and watch FOXgnus, then a scripted drama about cops of every stripe or two, then off to bed.Repeat a million times.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)then Sean Hannity, and then you really need to go to weeks of anger management classes.
bdamomma
(63,799 posts)media outlets are brainwashing people into believing total BS. And they are believing it.
BluesRunTheGame
(1,607 posts)The right wing media bubble. TV, radio, Drudge, Britebart, etc.
still_one
(92,061 posts)essentially just get locals.
I had been thinking about this since 2000. Not only with the way they ridiculed Al Gore, but the unfettered access they gave to the swift pukes against John Kerry.
This election was the final straw for me.
I read the NY Times, BBC, and other sources, so I have no problem being informed. While no medium is perfect, the written media from established newspapers are light years ahead in their reporting of the news and current events then the sorry excuse we have for the television "news".
When CNN entertains the question, "are Jews people"?
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/21/cnn-reaches-debating-trump-admit-jews-people.html
or 11 days before the election MSNBC was the first network to report that "the email investigation had been reopened", a LIE, as breaking news, and then proceeded for the next hour to parade every right wing politician across the television screen propagating that lie, one needs to ask, what kind of propaganda bullshit am I being fed?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)still_one
(92,061 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)No I'm not one of those snarling old farts, but I do understand the problem.
But, I don't blindly throw blame around, and I really don't know what to do about it. I just know that at least half of my problems are my own fault.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)wish I could go back and tweak a few things, but that's over, long over. As one of my friends used to say you often have to live as best you can for the moment and not dwell on the past, and not fret a whole lot about the future, because, who knows ...
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)fault.
marlakay
(11,425 posts)He deals with a lot of depression because of not accepting his life didn't turn out like he wanted.
Upset his kids aren't close to him.
I get along with my step daughter almost more than him because she wants a happy life and feels like her dad pulls her down, she is in late 20's.
I barely got him to vote and for Hillary, basically he is mad at the world.
And we are on the left so its not just right wing men upset.
lindysalsagal
(20,581 posts)Being white and male used to be the key to just about everything.
It no longer is, and for that, I am grateful.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)SubjectiveLife78
(67 posts)Your job can be done anywhere, by anyone, or increasingly any thing.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)etc. Even some drs., for example, will find their jobs going away because of really advanced computer systems technology in the future, some of it here now. My dad worked with the same company for 40 years, had good retirement and healthcare. That's long gone. Many companies don't even last that long now.
CrispyQ
(36,421 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)Limbaugh regularly takes (white) mens sadness, disappointment and apprehension - about a range of political and personal subjects and interprets it for them as anger. This is effective, in part, because for so many men, anger is much less treacherous emotional terrain than other emotions - and much more socially acceptable.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)one ages in the US, and then that fear transferred to anger. Also, of course, there is always risk in being friendly, the fear of rejection. In anger, one does not have to fear that. It's a damn shame that hucksters like Limbaugh and his ilk make a load of money off of this.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,819 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)That was me until late May of this year.
I live in a town that has lots of retirees. I see it all the time - pissed off people - and many of them have a lot of security such as 2 homes, an RV, two or more cars, riding lawnmower, etc.
Guys who work at their homes have told me that is what they run into all the time. They have so much but are angry at the world.
I have seen and heard some men turn a line at checkout into their personal editorial address to the people stuck there. Forget knocking on their doors for politics or community issues - they are suspicious and angry right off the bat. All they want to do is find someone else to listen to their complaints that fox feeds to them.
They are filled with hate, as in brainwashing by fox.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)BigDemVoter123
(43 posts)I'm older and I'm caucasian, and I hope I don't look mean & angry!
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)In my day, we showed respect and we didn't do selfies and dicks pics. There's nothing funny about cats.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)and seeing what just happened to our Country,really has me a bit edgy to say the least. Seen this Movie before and am very worried as to what is going to happen to our Adult Children and Grand Kids. When you grew up in poverty and all your friends were in the same boat,ask anyone of them who were able to escape poverty,what matters most. Every one will tell you,I want a better life for our Children and Grand Children. Many of old People see the seeds of our youth returning and we are with out a doubt angry for seeing all our hard work being destroyed. You leave it better than you received it . And then you have what has always been called the Greedy Geezer Crowd,just a bunch of old White People who run around worried sh*tless someone might take their toys away. They well tell you straight up,screw you I ain't sharing.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Today, it seems to be more and more about who can rip others apart. Your last sentence says it all and I agree!
"And then you have what has always been called the Greedy Geezer Crowd,just a bunch of old White People who run around worried sh*tless someone might take their toys away. They well tell you straight up, screw you I ain't sharing."
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)JI7
(89,239 posts)say hi to them and they might smile and say hi back.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)relax and all so it looks like frowns, etc. when it really isn't. That is an interesting description, "resting bitch face." I've seen some pictures of myself, and they sure weren't good!
SticksnStones
(2,108 posts)
Low Testosterone Can Make Men Grumpy
Men who find themselves feeling grumpy for no reason may be suffering from low testosterone, an under-diagnosed condition that can leave you with low energy and a blue mood.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,816 posts)The expression "Free, white, and 21" left out being male, but it was always understood by those who heard that phrase.
Starting in the late 1960's things began to change. Affirmative action. Title IX. More women going to college. Women taking control of their own lives in so many ways. Persons of color challenging the status quo.
To the old white men, they think they've lost everything. In reality, they are finally competing on a more level playing field, but they won't be happy until it goes back to what it was in the 1950s.
We can all take comfort in the fact that they are old, and will eventually die off.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)one of my sister's in laws is like that. Has a great house, big yard, enough money to work on it and improve it often, camper with beach plot, retired, has time to just enjoy life. Always the victim at family gatherings, of the government, other people getting something for nothing, all people he does not know that are somehow making his life unhappy.
Vinca
(50,236 posts)Today is an unusual day. We've been up for over an hour and he hasn't started yelling about Trump yet.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The glacial plan that Paul Weyrich, Lewis Powell and others laid into place in the 1960s created the swaths of grouchy assholes you see today.
The 45-60 white male age group has also seen a spike in suicides in recent years. It's likely for all of the reasons listed above - they believed the world was their oyster, they would have a job for life and be gainfully employed, and would be able to retire as their fathers did . . . and soon became crushingly despondent when they realized they were sold a ginormous LIE.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)profit now AKA Fox News, Alex Jones and the herd. Now, they have Trump, who will take them down further, a downward spiral by falling for propaganda, Joseph Goebbels style, and they still don't get it. And, one can't clue them in, because they know everything and are so damn polarized. Everyone isn't this way, but you do come across them.
inanna
(3,547 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The only break came when he voted for John Kerry in 2004 when he became sick of W and his idea to privatize SS. He retired the next year. Thankfully, that stupid idea never came to pass.
Since then, it's been all idiots.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)you "notice it "most in the US" -- What country do you live in?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Not unique to older men. Sullen is sexier than smiling. I see it in Instagram pics of 15 year old girls, Hispanic rappers, etc. In millennial women, there is even a term for it, RBF, which you can Google yourself.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,852 posts)I mean look at Comey. That guy is younger than me and he looks like an old man. Always dour and sour to boot.
I know i'm not posting a picture of myself, but trust me, he looks 10 years older than me, and iirc, he's 4 years younger.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,852 posts)I have a job that requires focus and energy, just like them. And he wasn't FBI director his whole damn life. At some point he was just another lawyer. (And politician, obviously.)
He's barely older than Obama and looks 20 years older than Obama does, and Obama had the stress of POTUS for 8 freaking years.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,852 posts)Well, maybe that's why they're so grumpy.
bdamomma
(63,799 posts)tRump will blow a gasket, hoping that we are NOT in his way when he does. tRump is not a well man either mentally or physically, those tanning beds can do some damage!!
Paladin
(28,243 posts)You want laughs and chuckles? Go find an old "I Love Lucy" show and watch it.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)worse. It's not just Trump, but the army of creatures behind him. I can't see how any of this is going to work out well. And for those who voted him in, most had best kiss everything goodbye. He's not their friend. They were stooges/losers used for their vote.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Men say this to women and we *always* appreciate it, so give it a go.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)bdamomma
(63,799 posts)I have a long wait...........sigh.... but I hope that pendulum swings back hard to the LEFT again and when it does wipe out those who are NOT tolerant of other people.
Right wing dictators are coming back even in European countries. I hope Angela Merkel will be okay. Putin is very happy that the US is out of the way.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)dictators. I think that's Trump's goal, and then with his alliance with Putin ... and the cast of characters he has ushered into the US gov. with him.
PunkinPi
(4,874 posts)Bucky
(53,947 posts)How does spreading hate & divisiveness help anybody?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Bucky
(53,947 posts)I think you meant "Why" not "What," but this isn't a syntax lesson. It's as ethics lesson.
Your argument that you can't be insulting to a particular group of people because you're in that same group makes about as much sense as a black guy wearing a robe and burning a cross saying he's not a terrorist.
The sense of your post is to shame and insult white people who are older and male based on the way they look. It is unethical to judge people by their ethnicity or age or looks.
You should judge people by their actions and their words. And if you are interested in making your country a better place, you should use your own words to fight Trump & his affiliates, not to divide us up further with new resentments based on accidents of birth.
If you want to live in a world with less prejudice, you need to stay being the change you want to see and quit feeding that hate.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)It's a general observation perhaps, like the general observation that lots of young people have tattoos these days. We all know there are exceptions. We are that intelligent. We know OP didn't probably do a study by numbering the white men and determining whether they looked grumpy.
Older white men as a demographic are Republican, so it's not so far out there to make a generalization that the grumpy ones are those. And the reasons for that - loss of white privilege, seeing America change, pain (they are old), resting bitch face (their generation's tough guy culture) all kinds of explanation have been given.
SubjectiveLife78
(67 posts)Your level of tolerance for these things depends on your particular perspective, which is different for different people. To practice some form of hypocrisy is to be human. Always has been, always will be. We're all guilty of that at some point, to some degree.
Bucky
(53,947 posts)I'm pretty intolerant of demographics-based politics. I will try and figure out what my personal hypocrisy is.
Thank you for the thought provoking response.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Goodness. You're so very oppressed by a mere question regarding demographics.
Quickly now! Refer to a false equivalency to better rationalize your offense.
bdamomma
(63,799 posts)and they are lashing out.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)people have a really rough time of it, and now threats about Medicare, Social Security and all. ... plus combine that with health issues. It can be pretty bad.
inanna
(3,547 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Good grief. I know a lot of "older white men." Not sure what you mean by "older" Older than what? But okay, older. Some of them are indeed "snarly" as you put it. Most of them are just normal people, sometimes angry or (more frequently) irritated or annoyed, but generally reasonably happy, normally polite.
If you watch Dump rallies and Fox UnNews, the mean and angry types are indeed what you will see, and that makes it look like the huge majority of "older" white men are "snarly." Or if you see them on a packed train, where everyone's angry, you'll see the older white men angry too.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Thanks for taking my reply in the spirit it was given
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)TXCritter
(344 posts)I'm white, male and 50. I grew up comfortably but awake and aware. I've known about Climate change since I was ten years old. I've endured Reagan, Bush, Cheney and all their cohort. I've seen what they are doing and I've been doing what I can to counter it.
I live in the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world. I am part of a subset of our species that, collectively, has the ability to destroy this planet. I've been fighting against that and losing most of my life.
Yeah, I'm angry. Yeah, I have the weight of the world on my shoulders. Thank God I didn't create any children to pass this mess onto.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)best this nation can do, the crap Trump and his cohorts spewed, and then he is elected president, and then he ushers in this cast of horrible individuals. Same here!!! "Yeah, I'm angry. Yeah, I have the weight of the world on my shoulders. Thank God I didn't create any children to pass this mess onto."
I keep thinking it will end, but it continues on, FFS, now with this character Trump.
Zorro
(15,722 posts)It also keeps the real assholes away from me.
I look like someone they don't want to engage with, and if they do, they find out I really am someone they shouldn't have engaged with.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)asshole they warm up and are very friendly. It's almost necessary these days.
NewsomeSF
(5 posts)Surrounded by mostly Asian and Latino riders. It's definitely genetics and the effects of aging. It appears as if we are heading to a funeral.
panader0
(25,816 posts)RedWedge
(618 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,682 posts)moda253
(615 posts)One thing that bothers me is being lumped into a group that hates women, oppresses minorities, and wants everyone on earth to suffer.
I know I am not these things and so I try not to let it bother me but it does get tiring to hear things like this constantly. I understand my own white privilege or at least I understand it to the degree that I am able to. Same with my own sexism that had been ingrained in me through societal norms and my upbringing. I didn't begin understanding these things by someone screaming at me. I began to understand these things through various relationships throughout my life. There is nothing more that I would like to be able to identify outwardly that I recognize people that look like me have been part of the problem but that I desperately do not want to be one of them. But I don't get to do that because I am white male. Unfortunately, it isn't enough to try and be a part of the solution, we need to be punished as well. However, as long as that tactic keeps getting rolled out there will be more of what happened in this election. The only way anything changes for any meaningful amount of time is working together.
People need to work together. There are plenty of white males that are not angry. We just want to be known as good people that want to help as much as we can in any way that we can.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)bdamomma
(63,799 posts)we all do not want to lump people into categories'. There exceptions to the rule. There are still good people out there.
treestar
(82,383 posts)we should not look at an old white man, even if grumpy, and assume he is a right wing nut. That's wrong. Now if you hear wing nut crap from him, that's another thing. Other stereotypes apply too. There are old white men with long gray hair in a ponytail, and we can't assume they are liberal, though we might want to, and the reverse for one in a baseball cap.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Most older white men are kind and friendly looking/acting.
Where exactly have you encountered this observation you describe?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I spent a lot of time at various area retirement communities and nursing homes, and I find most folks there to be very kind and friendly - especially impressive in light of what many are going through.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Maybe they listen to too much Fox News. Seriously.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Even just what part of the country?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)inanna
(3,547 posts)My Dad grew up in a very homogeneous society in a small Canadian city - where things were very vanilla and for the most part: predictable. Dad was born 1942 - during the war. His Dad was very racist and very, very socially conservative. In his daily life as a child, Dad encountered white protestants (like himself) or white catholics. Everybody else was "strange" or foreign. Multi-culturalism under Trudeau was not yet a "thing."
All the "bad" stuff in that society like rampant alcoholism, wife-beating, child abuse or family incest...were very common situations that were simply hidden away. People didn't talk about it, but nearly every family had one or two of those skeletons in the closet. In that upside down world, the "bad" people seemed to be the ones who did talk about the hidden stuff, the ones who brought "shame" upon the family.
I think in the sixties and seventies, my Dad became a bit confused by the civil rights and women's movements. A smart man, he understood these things on an intellectual level. But his own upbringing had created a strange mental and psychological filter. For example, abortion. He firmly believes in a woman's right to choose, yet strangely longs for the days when girls still wore poodle skirts: the 'feminine' fashion sense of the 40's and 50's. In his mind, it's also perfectly fine for a woman to work outside the home. But women oddly shouldn't talk "too much" about politics. They should never swear. He was a semi-modern man - to a point.
Pierre Elliot Trudeau tripped some kind of wire in my Dad's brain. It was from that point onward that Dad gradually became more and more entrenched in his conservatism. At first, it was some kind of instinctual backlash against multi-culturalism. By this point, it was becoming awkward for me. I had friends of all different ethnicities. It could be quite painful to see how two-faced he really was at times. Nice to my Pakistani friend -until her parents arrived to collect her. Then he'd start with the stereo-typing. It angered me then, as a child. But I'd been raised in a fairly orthodox manner - you didn't back talk or disrespect your parents, unless you wanted the belt.
Things started to change once I became a teenager. By that point, I would engage him. I would debate. I would defend my friend from Jamaica. And you've never heard so much vitriol pour out of a man's mouth! I think the bottom line was my Dad felt as though I was rejecting all the values he'd been trying to instill in me. I wasn't rejecting everything. I believed in honesty, family, etc. I was beginning to reject the racism, the anti-liberalism, the "cute" little remarks he'd make about gay people. Dinner time was no longer peaceful and quiet in our home - it'd become more like a damn battle field as I began to assert myself.
These grumpy old men that you are talking about are stuck in a very romanticized fantasy of their own past - their generation. They remember the good things from that era, but fail to remember the bad. The media has played a tremendous role in this as well. The news never used to be like it is now. There was no Fox. There wasn't "infotainment." There was no internet where you could surround yourself with like-minded people - the modern day echo-chambers. I can see the impact Alex Jones, Fox News, etc., has had on my father. It's all caused him to become much more extreme in his senior years. He's become a fist-thumping, ranting and raving conservative caricature.
I suspect my own father visits Storm Front. I'm not certain, but it's an uncanny feeling I have. And if true, then even his own (racist) father would be rolling in his grave. My grandfather fought in the war - he was a sailor in the Canadian navy. My grandfather, imperfect as he was, at least had the common decency to despise the nazi mindset. My own father? I'm no longer sure about that.
And it's frightening.
renate
(13,776 posts)To see somebody you love change like that is so sad.
I wonder why right-wing media is so defined by anger. Not by an honest disagreement about how to make the world a better place or anything justifiable like that... just ANGER. And anger feeds on itself and gets bigger and bigger without a whole lot of extra input needed. I suppose I just answered my question about why the right-wing media focus on anger and not compassion: there's an expression for compassion fatigue but not one for anger fatigue. Certain people don't get tired of being angry--they love it.
Anyway, I'm really sorry about your father. That must hurt a lot.
inanna
(3,547 posts)It is painful. I hope I've not given the impression that I don't love my Dad. Rereading my earlier post, I wonder...? There are many other qualities about the man that I adore. But we've always clashed politically.
My brother too is a conservative, but not to quite the same degree as Dad. There have been times my brother has had to tell my own father to "tone it down" a little.
>> I wonder why right-wing media is so defined by anger. Not by an honest disagreement about how to make the world a better place or anything justifiable like that... just ANGER. And anger feeds on itself and gets bigger and bigger without a whole lot of extra input needed. <<
I don't know. But well said.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)the past and then that hatred/racism/bigotry accelerated for profit by Fox News, Alex Jones and the herd, as well as hate religions. It's horrible what is going on. None seem to be addressing it, and when they try, many scream free speech. Just how far can one carry free speech. I think the founders of the US thought of free speech as responsible free speech, not propaganda, misinformation and hatred sold for profit. I feel so sorry for what you went through, so saddening.
>> I think the founders of the US thought of free speech as responsible free speech, not propaganda, misinformation and hatred sold for profit. <<
I think you're probably correct. If only there was some way to ask (the founding fathers) what they think of the current state of affairs in the U.S.? That would be one hell of a conversation, I'm sure.
Thanks for the hug!
ileus
(15,396 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)but, as many assholes can attest, I can be mean as hell when I need to be.