Why the Dems can't fight and republicans can...

[rainy]

Our leaders are too indebted to doners and
because they have to walk the line between pleasing their base and donors they never are able to put up a decent fight or decent opposition!

They know the corporate media will destroy them if they stand up for "liberal" ideals because liberal ideals, equality, clean air and water etc will hurt the bottom line.

Republicans, on the other hand, can always be supported by corporate media and the wealthy because their rants always benefit them. They can always be covered in the news because republicans have convinced them that their values are the same.

Democrat's values directly contradict the wealthy and corporate "non" values and that is why they give up the fight because they know, from experience, they will be ignored and or ridiculed. They have been well trained not to speak up. They just can't if they want to keep getting good donors and financing.

We will only win when we really get money out of politics and equal coverage no matter our message.

[brooklynite]

1. That's why we lost in '06, '08 and '12?

[Eleanors38]

30. Yeah, we cleaned up in all the legislatures and statehouses. Hammered 'em, we did.

[rainy]

2. It's why this country has been dragged

so far right that we actually have an extreme right president elect. So yes that is why we won those years we didn't fight for anything too much just enough to give the left some false hope.

Don't get me wrong. Even right of center Dems ate better than anything they have to offer but true liberal values are ridiculed or ignored by the corporate press.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

12. I think there is some truth in that.

[wiggs]

3. money is one thing, broken public discourse is another, and a significant

factor ever since Lee Atwater and Karl Rove is a willingness to go low -- as low as it takes -- with political tactics....an ends justify the means approach to truth, campaigning, justice, and honesty. Trump personifies that. Dems don't...in fact, Obama is the opposite of those kinds of politicians

[rainy]

20. Politics have always been dirty but it

was a freer press in the day that managed the truth better. The press bares a lot of the blame. Obama is a different kind of politician. Definitely from a much higher standard.

[ismnotwasm]

4. Exactly how many Democrats bashing threads are needed today?

Yeh, yeah, There's a couple hard hitters with constructive criticism, but as I said it before and I'll say it again, dayam, if I felt about Democrats the way some folks around here seem to I would never vote for them.


And I always vote for Democrats

[Wiseman32218]

14. Right, time to unite not divide!!

[Crunchy Frog]

18. This is simply pointing out reality.

How many elections do you think we'll win by burying our heads in the sand?

[Dustlawyer]

5. +1!!! This is what I have been saying, keep spreading the truth!

Sure Democrats have won the WH because their message is generally better to most Americans, but when in office they quietly pass bipartisan bills to benefit Wall Street. They make sure their opposition falls just short when they need cover. Most of the battles are on social issues.

Why is it so hard for some to believe that these corporations and plutocrats give hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions and to Super PACs to buy influence? Is it more believable they are doing it out of civic duty?

These politicians have to raise money constantly to stay in office. If they go against the wishes of their Donors are they going to still receive the check?

[rainy]

6. Exactly Dustlawyer, exactly what I'm saying!!!

[JudyM]

10. Now we just have to figure a way out.

[Wiseman32218]

15. Uniting is our only hope. Arguing accomplishes nothing.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. So what exactly are we supposed to do?

And how is it going to advance our agenda? I want specifics.

[Wiseman32218]

32. Sorry for the delay in responding

We need to start locally, right now we are screwed in most states due to gerrimanded districts due to Republican control, we have large cities pretty much, so we need to infiltrate the medium sized cities and get more support. Then grow local control, the census is coming very quickly, we need to shift some dynamics or we are in trouble for the next decade in the house and senate.

[blue neen]

7. Speak for yourself.

You don't speak for me.

[unblock]

8. Short answer is that the right wing owns the media

They ignore our million people marched, they mock it when our leaders in congress protest, and every panel has only one outnumbered person on the left, with a "moderator" who calls out any democratic goof but lets the republicans lie through their teeth and interrupt so as to take 80% of the airtime.

Republicans have an ugly coalition. It's not just the 1%. Yeah, that's the real power, but they have to answer to the bigots, the nationalists, the christian right, the small businesses, etc. but they coordinate a message and fight like hell, taking turns to throw each part of their coalition a bone. Or red meat, in their case.

We can't achieve that not because organizing democrats is like herding cats, as the saying goes, but because even if we did, the media would just ignore our message and turn to another made-up scandal about a democrat.

[rainy]

9. You absolutely nailed it. I wasn't bashing

Democrats just the system they find themselves in. Their "fights" or protests are never televised. Robert Byrd's most eloquent and beautiful anti Iraq war speeches were never seen by the mainstream and they would have absolutely changed minds. That's why we scare them. When we are heard loud and clear we win.

That is why our message is squashed.

[Hamlette]

11. Nonsense. Complete BS

it's because we are not despicable animals. We are constitutionally incapable of spreading lies or believing them. We would never vote for a person who said:

"I get called by a guy that can't buy a pair of pants, I get called names?" – Trump’s comment about paralyzed commentator Charles Krauthammer

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what they write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.”

“If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’”

“All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected.”

“Lyin’ Ted Cruz just used a picture of Melania from a shoot in his ad. Be careful, Lyin’ Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!”

Just google it, you'll find hundreds just as offensive. Do I want to win, you bet. Do I want my candidates to talk like that? No.

We can't put up a "decent fight" unless we fight like they do. It has nothing to do with donors, although I would argue that the donors have interests too. If we raise taxes too high on the rich or corporations, they will move out of the country. I'd even convince you, given enough time, that banks have a reason for existing and while they should be regulated, some of the regulations do more harm than good. Do I believe in privatization of schools, or discrimination or cutting back social programs or getting rid of SS or Medicare? Hell no.

We lose because we don't have MORE donors who will do what the Koch brothers and others have done. Stay with it. Our biggest mistake of the last 20 years was 2010. When rich republicans funded low level elections and took house and senate majorities in states so they could be gerrymandered. If we let it happen again in 2020 by saying Democrats are as corrupt as Republicans because "donors" or whatever nonsense you are peddling, it will happen again.

Oh, and GOP did not convince the media they are sane, they convinced everyone else the media was biased. They did it on purpose. They started years ago saying "the media is against us" causing the media to bend over backwards to appear fair, hence, the false equivalency that drives us nuts.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

13. +1

can't recommend your post enough!

[tblue37]

17. The GOP excels at working the refs. nt

[rainy]

22. What you are saying is get even more money

in politics and politicians should continue to be fundraisers year round. The media is biased towards republicans. Note how they ignore and ridicule real liberals and liberal ideas or better yet never let us hear left voices. I never saw a speech being aired by Bernie or Hillary but saw many of Trump speeches. Saw many commentators and right wing guests non stop discussions about what Trump was saying but no reports on his lies and his corruption.

Don't forget the powerful effect of Fox News and right wing radio.

[Hamlette]

31. either that or we elect a Democratic lying, populist, sack of shit like Trump.

We have worked our butts off to make the workplace safe and provide benefits to the working class but they are pissed because some blacks might get the same benefits. Its a no win. Unless we play by their rules, one way or the other.

We need to scream louder and organize. Hard to do unless you have lots of money or find some other way to sustain it during off years. We Dems suck at that.

[tblue37]

16. But Bernie did show a way to replace deep-pocket donors with small donations from a lot of

ordinary people.

[rainy]

21. That is probably how we will finally

break free and get around the media and powerful donors.

[WhiteTara]

26. Yes, he did a great thing by taking Howard Dean's

model and expanding it with social media. Jerry Brown used that method too, but it was before the internet and wasn't effective.

[Equinox Moon]

23. Voting rights.

A huge part of the issue with this election was the gutting of voting rights and horrible laws passed to suppress the vote.

Voter rolls purged.
Voting places reduced so people had to drive, making it very inconvenient.
Voter ID laws.
Too many voter rules about when to register by, then closing that option.
on...and on... it goes.

Republicans hate legislation, unless it creates a mess of laws to block the vote. We do not have a democracy, it is fake.

[JudyM]

27. Completely. They are all about cold, hard strategy to achieve their ends, not about good governance

We have been continuously outmaneuvered and need to focus not just on our values but also on how to orchestrate progress in achieving gains in line with those values.. We need a broader focus that includes gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc... the mechanics of getting votes.

[Equinox Moon]

28. Hi JudyM.

Wise you are.

I read a post that it is proposed (1) one person will work full time within the DNC regarding following voting issues all over the country. ONE!

I think the DNC needs an entire wing!

[JudyM]

29. Ugh, that is stunningly inadequate.

They should be looking at all the local reports of machine irregularities and investigate those, look at all the local policies and practices that impeded turnout and need to be addressed, thorough root cause analysis. Then do something about it, which requires computer expertise, legal expertise, etc.

Sanders' call for a 50 state strategy will focus on getting the grassroots active, and it should identify policies for them that need to be changed in each state re: election law. Unless he's just looking for people to run for local offices without guidance on election reform. It'd be more efficient to coordinate these efforts.

With as much money as they handle, and with as much as is at stake, putting 1 person in charge of this is bizarre. I'm going to hold out hope that whoever gets the job of heading up the DNC will dedicate more resources.

Oh, and you are wise too (thanks for the compliment) ... I always read your posts with interest!

[libtodeath]

24. One problem we have is we tell the truth while the pukes lie about everything.

[rainy]

25. Yes and the media never call them on it even though

we know they are lying their asses off.

[gulliver]

33. Dems just fight badly.

We jump right to tattling to "the teacher" by calling people racists and so forth. We assume "the teacher" will step in, judge us correct, and immediately take the bully to the principal's office. But there's no teacher and no principal. The media just takes video.