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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie Sanders: Its a tragic mistake to dismiss anti-establishment voters as deplorable
Bernie Sanders: It’s a ‘tragic mistake’ to dismiss anti-establishment voters as ‘deplorable’Tana Ganeva
Raw Story
The Senator noted that while it might be tempting to write off all Donald Trump supporters as racists, sexists, and xenophobes, post-election analysis needs to be more nuanced.
“There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a ‘deplorable,’ Sanders said, referencing Hillary Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” comment on the campaign trail. “They’re not. These are people who are disgusted, and they are angry at the establishment. And the Democratic Party has not been clear enough, in my view, about telling those people, whether they are white, whether they are black, Latino, Asian American or whatever, women, gay, whatever, that we are on their side.”
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InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)We're saying that racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and anti-Semitic and Islamaphobic people are deplorable.
Parker DeWitt
(28 posts)You don't call any voters names -- even if they are deplorable. That's Politics 101. Hillary called Trump voters deplorable. It may have been as nuanced as you claim, but anyone who was even slightly attracted to Trump assumed she was talking directly about them. And she and her acolytes spent a lot of time shitting on Bernie supporters. Supposedly, they were just naive idiots sitting in their parents' basement looking for free stuff. I really couldn't believe she was doing that. That's arrogance. That's how you lose an election.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)that being anti-establishment is what Hillary was talking about.
She was talking about haters. And she never put ALL DT voters in that category -- only a significant portion.
Parker DeWitt
(28 posts)That was the day I knew she was probably going to lose. It was right up there with Romney's 47 percent remark. But even there, Romney thought he was speaking privately. For Hillary, it was just one more blunder in a terrible campaign.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)dropped his first letter bomb. So the deplorable comment wasn't critical.
Johnathan146
(141 posts)Maybe the polls were wrong and she wasnt ahead.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)was that the surveying ended a few days before the election; and there were still a large number of undecideds and they broke for DT.
Silver says that Comey's letter was decisive.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Would think that's stating the obvious!
blue cat
(2,415 posts)Because I so don't remember the other side being so cautious and trying to win me over. Like we can win people who love the taste of liberal tears.
blue cat
(2,415 posts)She didn't call us basement dwellers. I remember when it came up so I went and read the exact quote and knew that it was just my side at the time feigning outrage.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thewrap.com/hillary-clinton-did-not-call-millennials-basement-dwellers/amp/?client=safari
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)
wasn't the best GE strategy either. Or playing up gun control. The election was not in the bag.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Even if it were true, you don't say it. Bernie OTOH demonstrates, once again, that he's an adept politician.
blue cat
(2,415 posts)They unite and keep attacking. We worry ourselves and fight amongst ourselves because the bullies don't like us.
Mike Nelson
(9,951 posts)...meant that at all... she very clearly did not mean "everybody" - it was a fraction and Hillary was, like Bernie, correct.
portlander23
(2,078 posts)She said half of Trump voters are a "basket of deplorables". I'm not sure what percentage were unreachable, but half is a good a guess as any. That said, that was a terrible misstep in the campaign. Clinton had already decided on running a negative campaign, not that Trump deserved respect, but it was a serious misstep to attack voters rather than the candidate.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)It was an incredibly stupid remark. Go after the opposing candidate all you want, making your case as to why your platform is superior to theirs, but never criticize the voters. It makes any of them that might potentially listen to or be swayed by your arguments just step away.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Something inside my brain said, "Uh,oh. THAT will be trouble."
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)But, internally, I knew exactly how that would work out. It was just an unforced error. One of a number of mistakes that may have made the voter supression, Russian interference, FBI sabbotage, fake news, and the morons in the media all completely irrelevant to the final result if corrected.
Bernie is right about a candidate calling voters deplorable, but I don't like him also getting what she said wrong. He pretty much just rephrased exactly what she did say, but with a more positive emphasis. No need to continue the falsehood that she dismissed all of them as deplorables, or to extend the statement to everyone who is "anti-establishment".
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)The issues of racism and sexism literally do not exist in his world unless he can somehow plop on a topping of the old oligarchy. I'm disgusted at how he has muddied the waters over and over again.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Why alienate voters whose mind you hope to change? Guess she thought she could shame them into switching... and thought wrong!
TonyPDX
(962 posts)And, yes, I worked my ass off for her.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Can we point to objective evidence illustrating it weakened her support though?
TonyPDX
(962 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)And the GOP went to great lengths to prevent any hand recounts? Perhaps look at the big picture here, and realize that the objective evidence doesn't point where you're suggesting.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)We're just wedge identity SJWs to them, same as the GOP sees things. :barf:
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Possibly give you. But I suspect you damn well know what I am saying- no matter how it was "couched".
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Selves that claim to be blind to it.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)what constitutes denying, what discussion attendant to that classification can be had, who makes judgments about denials, who enforces any sanctions, appeals, etc.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Ah the actually interested in a good faith discussion of the subject. That's why you feign confusion and need to take it to extremes like "sanctions and appeals." Out right mocking would be more honest.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
Rollo
(2,559 posts)Hillary actually said "half" of Trump's supporters were "deplorables". In my book, a fraction would be something less than half. In any case, she did try to moderate her statement, saying half was probably too broad a category, but the damage had already been done. She could have phrased it much more artfully, but she didn't. Bill probably have just said something like, "Aw shucks, many of Trump's supporters are just plain nuts"...
atreides1
(16,072 posts)And the Republican party isn't part of the establishment? The party that has threatened to shut down the government, the party that wants to repeal the ACA which has provided many of those "disgusted and angry" people with access to affordable health care, the party that has gone out of its way to suppress voters rights, women's rights, and the rights of a Americans just because they're gay, the party that is looking at cutting medicare, medicaid, and privatizing Social Security and the VA!!!
Those people are disgusted and angry, and they're f**king dumber then a bag of hammers, too!!!
jalan48
(13,856 posts)That's why he got their votes. Unfortunately, they couldn't put two and two together and ask themselves why a billionaire would really care about their problems.
TonyPDX
(962 posts)
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...no one described 'anti-establishment' voters as 'deplorable.'
Sanders is lying.
JustAnotherGen
(31,805 posts)I wonder if Sanders actually said that or if the Russians planted it.
MadCrow
(155 posts)I think Bernie got it right. Hillarys' deplorable comment was taken out of context by the media. Trump's followers and watchers of Fox news aren't going to take the nuanced approach. They just assumed that Clinton lumped them all together in her unfortunate statement. Although I am originally from NY, I now live in WV and I have seen how the Democratic Party has failed to deliver on its promises. While the rest of the country is doing well, we are falling farther and farther behind. These people are angry and hurting, so they want to lash out at those in power, the establishment if you will. Trump hit a chord with his comments about people in power and they chose to vent their anger and frustration by voting for him. Unfortunately, I fear it will be to their own detriment.
I supported Bernie and I spoke to a lot of people who didn't like Trump, but also felt that Hillary supported the status quo and wanted a change. Hillary did not come across as a change candidate and she did not generate the enthusiasm among the parts of the electorate that Bernie did. I was at the WV Democratic Convention and we approved the most progressive platform ever in our state. I believe we could have attracted many dissatisfied voters if the national DNC and the national media had not written off our state and other's like it and given Bernie a platform to be heard, instead of being marginalized and considered a fringe candidate. However, that is my personal opinion and it's all now water under the bridge. After the convention I followed Bernie's lead and supported Hillary.
Now is the time to unite and calling Bernie a liar and accusing his followers of causing us to lose the election is counter- productive when there is certainly enough blame to go around. We tried it Hillary's way and now is time to make change. So let's get started.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...and still waging his demagogic campaign against Hillary by claiming she or the party dissed these wwc Trump voters.
Sanders voted with Hillary over 90% of the time. What he's claiming about Hillary and the Democratic party is sophistry.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Not at all, or at least I didn't take it that way.
It was a dig at the many, many people in our party who have decided that every single person who voted for a Trump is a racist, sexist homophobe. They're not; a lot of them are just mas studied and disillusioned and can still be reached.
The threads on DU alone are a good demonstration of Sanders' point, not to mention the published articles and recorded speeches.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...there isn't some contingent of Democrats saying that. It's a strawman.
Sanders is still fighting the primary election, and still spending his time worrying over wwc Trump voters who got exactly what they voted for in this election.
The meme he's spreading that Democrats haven't addressed the needs of the working class is refuted by the majority of working-class voters who helped her win the majority of votes in the election; I'm talking about the ENTIRE working-class vote, not just the narrow slate of white voters Sanders is obsessed with.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Because he seeems to be the only one in Democratic leadership who still keeps talking about a 50 state strategy.
He didn't even mention Clinton in those comments quoted in the article. I also don't think he was limiting his discussion to white, working class people in three states.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...complaining about 'low information' southern voters who supported Hillary, and giving props to the supposed intelligence of voters in the North who might be inclined to vote for him.
50 state strategy, my ass.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bigtree
(85,986 posts)
Cha
(297,123 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)It is entirely another matter to write off pro forma tens of millions of Americans by labeling them racist, misogynist, haters, etc. You CANNOT call yourself a political party or even a worthy movement by deleting whole populations who do not meet your approval.
Bernie could die tomorrow and the Democratic Party would STILL face fundamental questions as to its relevancy, fitness, viability and competency.
It is not going away, bigtree.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...what Sanders said and his campaign did in the campaign did not go unnoticed by the black community.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Hopefully, as more and more Democrats get his message, we can slowly dig ourselves out of this ditch we fell into.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)"The Senator noted that while it might be tempting to write off all Donald Trump supporters as racists, sexists, and xenophobes, post-election analysis needs to be more nuanced.
“There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a ‘deplorable,’ Sanders said, referencing Hillary Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” comment on the campaign trail.
Well fuck me with a pink feather duster...
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)The whole "referencing Hillary" bit.
Bernie wasn't chastising Hill or her people, because even Hillary specifically said that most of Trump's supporters weren't deplorable, and she listed the same people that Bernie did who ARE deplorable.
He's not insulting her, he's copying her message, in place word for word. Ms. Clinton and her most die hard fans should be FLATTERED (imitation being the sincerest form, etc).
True Dough
(17,301 posts)There are all kinds of threads here where an OP flat out labels all Trump supporters at bigots and sexist, either directly or by association. Then dozens of DUers follow suit with "rah rah." It's a damaging whitewashing of tens of millions of people.
Those who voice any bigoted or sexist sentiment are fair game, worthy of condemnation, but the line should be drawn there.
George Eliot
(701 posts)Deplorables is what got heard however she meant it. Hanging on to blame and anger will hurt the party in the long run. Bernie was right and leadership in the party finally gets it. Unfortunately, we have a lot of work ahead of us to make things right. Can anyone imagine or remember Bernie name calling? It was a mistake no matter how in/out of context it was.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)I have little doubt Bernie's wise and well-reasoned approach to issues will win over not only progressive voters, but many of those Hillary refers to as "deplorables."
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)
J_William_Ryan
(1,751 posts)But "anti-establishment" voters are naive and unrealistic.
JustAnotherGen
(31,805 posts)No kissy face . . . ain't no takesey backsey on their votes.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)because you know that's not really what its about, but you want to diminish it to that. Or was that the point of his whole campaign too, and his years of doing the Tom Hartmann show...it was just preliminary outreach for a book he was eventually going to sell?
I'm sure you can find more honest ways of criticizing him than this.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts)
Luminous_Animal
(20 posts)
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
elleng
(130,861 posts)Imagine THAT!
Cha
(297,123 posts)
EarlG
(21,945 posts)(emphasis mine)
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/11/context-hillary-clinton-basket-deplorables/
Just in case anyone is under the mistaken impression that Hillary said everybody who votes for Trump is deplorable, or that she didn't acknowledge anti-establishment voters...
spanone
(135,816 posts)K&R...
JHan
(10,173 posts)Over and over and over it seems.
...thanks, EarlG!
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)that she didn't mean all Trump supporters. And also that she specifically called for empathy for anti-establishment voters. And yes, we have to say that over and over (and over, endlessly) here on DU. Maybe someday it will sink in, but that's sadly doubtful.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I guess not, according to what I see here on DU.
still_one
(92,122 posts)was well aware of his racist, sexist, and xenophobic views, and that they were not bothered by those views to not vote for him
cwydro
(51,308 posts)The sooner the better.
aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)Her deplorable comment was made in hubris when she thought she couldn't possibly lose.
If a voter had some inclinations toward Trump, There was s fifty percent chance HRC thought you were deplorable.
And we see the fallout in DU where Trump supporters are regularly described as deplorables without the nuance of her original comment.
The article makes it clear that Bernie is talking about post-election analysis:
The Senator noted that while it might be tempting to write off all Donald Trump supporters as racists, sexists, and xenophobes, post-election analysis needs to be more nuanced.
Just in case anyone is under the mistaken impression that Bernie thinks Hillary said every who voted for Trump was deplorable.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
nini
(16,672 posts)Facts be damned!
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)
Thank you so much EarlG! 
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Why, we can win without 'em! EZ peasey!
synergie
(1,901 posts)is all about them, perhaps you're in the wrong place?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Is that what you want to do? If so, play with your laptop in a coffee house because you are not engaging with the population OR in the political process. Do you actually believe you can delete tens of millions of people from your reality app and "win" something? Do you really believe that? Stay on this site for a few weeks, and most everyone will be accused of being a racist, misogynist or some variety of Nazi; it is sport around here, only you seem to want to use that crappy dynamic in the body politic.
Let me know when you have defined and discovered the Non-racist, -misogynist, -Nazi. Then count 'em up and plan a campaign to win a presidency. Hell, let's see your plan to win a legislative seat in Alabama. Consider carefully what "place" you and the rest of the nation are in.
synergie
(1,901 posts)willing to appeal to. No, I prefer to fight them, not embrace their hate. If that's what you want to do, play with your sheets, craft a white hood and venture forth to these people you wrongly assume are part of the population that reasonable people would like to deal with.
These people do not number in the tens of millions, and appealing to the very worst of humanity is not how we win something, it's how you lose.
You literally just said you wish to embrace Nazis and racists, having been on this site for quite some time, I know that you're simply wrong. It's not a sport, it's calling out evil and hate for what it is, not choosing to embrace it because it doesn't affect you personally. You seem to wish to celebrate the worst of humanity in the body politic, apparently this is how you "win", this is how the rest of us die, suffer and get attacked, not on this site, but in reality. Crappy people who are violent, it's a sport among those who can walk around NOT having to deal with these people in reality who seem to enjoy talking down to those of us who know better.
Let you know what exactly? Words have meaning, just because you have no knowledge of them or worry about facing them in real life, it doesn't mean that the rest of us are so privileged or so blissful in pure ignorance.
We don't need these people you are so fond of to win a presidency or anything else, we need people who normalize these folks, who wish to engage with them and embrace them to get a clue, get an education and dig deep and find some hint of morality, humanity and decency and work with us to defeat them.
Hell, let's see YOUR plan to win seats in Alabama, what does it entail, pro-Nazi stuff? BBQs with everyone clad in hoods?
I need to consider "carefully" what "my place" is in this country where I must appeal to the very nastiest parts of human nature of Nazis, racists and misogynists? Or what? Shall I be lynched, gassed, or just raped? That's how these people you're suggest I "learn my place" from treat people like me for calling out what they are.
Seek out these if you find that "your place" is with them, or you think that's what this nation is about, you're damned if the rest of us will follow suit. Even if they wouldn't destroy us on sight.
Your privilege and your tolerance for this type of hate speaks volumes and shows why you're not winning anything.
JustAnotherGen
(31,805 posts)Let those so-called progressives that want to be friends with them and play kissy face kiss up to the maggots. Let them. Birds of a feather flock together and that may very well be where their heart is. With 'them'. Not me. I'll remember this when one of their sainted heros is running in a few years. Pay back is a bitch.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Political parties are about winning people over to your side. As a party, we Democrats are failing to gain and hold effective power because we aren't acting like a party. If you want to make up a litmus test, then do so, and call it an invitation-only garden party. But don't call it a political party.
JustAnotherGen
(31,805 posts)Don't whine to me about it! I'm just a simple warehouse gal.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Where did I say I "embraced Nazis and racists?" You created that. (Now, you should see the sport in this; words have meaning inded.)
Most of your remaining post is an edfice built on Your meaningful word "embrace." Therefore, irrelevant.
I would also point out that this site has seen numerous posts which have said that people who vote for a racist (or misogynist, or facist/ Nazi) are themselves racist, etc. And many more posts advocating NOT reaching out to these people. That works out to tens of millions, but I am open to other esimates.
Appeals to All Americans should be, imo, couched on guarantees for retirement, housing, enough food for all, job security, affordable education, expanded public lands, protection of resources, protection of all Constitutional rights, and sound fiscal policies.
You seem to have a lot of hatred in your heart, and are willing to smear others for invented transgressions, in accordance with your post #173. So I must insist you refrain from such postings in the future when discussing any topic with me. Fair enough?
synergie
(1,901 posts)Or did you forget that part? I see you sporting with things that are entertaining for you, and deadly for those you instruct to "know our place" among racists, nazis and misogynists. Words have meaning, and yours are clear.
I'm sorry you failed to understand the words I used, or why yours were vile and nasty, thus your pretense here has been exposed.
I would point out that your own posts literally told me to "know my place" as you reach out to the hateful, the Nazis, the racists and the misogynists to empathize with them, that speaks volumes, and yes those who vote for anyone espousing these views are indeed stating that these positions are not deal breakers, that indicates something about those who support them.
Your math is faulty, your facility with words needs work, and you really need to understand that instructing someone to "know their place" when calling out the vilest aspects of society, says a great deal of where you stand here.
I can only imagine you say this from a place where you skintone, race, gender, religion doesn't put a target on your back, appeals to people who revile you based on who and what you are, are not what one does as a liberal, a progressive, or even a decent human being. WE fight this nastiness, we do not embrace is, and that is what you suggest, even though you try to deny this basic aspect of what you've said.
I have no hatred in my heart, that's projection on your part, I invented no transgressions, merely pointed out the actual hate in what you said, I must insist you stop commanding me to "know my place" and disabuse yourself of the delusion that you get to give orders to me, or any one else.
I shall also be sure to remind you in any future interaction that you have indeed made quite clear what your beliefs are, and that they will not be forgotten.
We liberals, Dems, progressives and decent human beings fight such people, THAT is our place, taking orders from those seeking common cause with those whose worldviews involve harm to us is not a thing that will be happening. Perhaps you should learn your own place, appealing to and embracing the hate filled, is not something that is tolerated by any decent person.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Great post, Synergie. I'm really sick of people on DU saying we must kiss up to these monsters.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)No one, because I wasn't.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)You make hay from straw, but more importantly, you further discredit yourself my continuing to engage in kitchen sink personal attacks.
Most important: Eventually, the Democratic Party Will re-achieve national power, as reflected through office-holders, and it Will be because we have won the support of millions of (former) tRump supporters. I predict as well, you will be part of the effort to win millions of tRump supporters over. That has to be a better "place" for everyone.
synergie
(1,901 posts)Yes, your claims are fiction, you demanded that I "know my place". it's nice that you figured out how the edit function worked, too bad the spellcheck still failed you.
if you cannot even be honest about what you actually said, and what you're doing, without the projection, what credit did you ever have?
You once again reassert your desire to appeal to Nazis, misogynists and racists, I predict that you will once again prove the honest, credible action is not your actual goal here. Giving power to the people you wish to embrace, that actual Democrats, Progressives, and liberals have been fighting, doesn't make any place better for anyone, it's why we won't heed your exhortations and will not learn our place.
Deleting and editing things you know to be inflammatory AFTER you were caught out in the act, really doesn't make you any more credible, it merely makes the point that certain voices claiming to be progressive truly are not, and that such voices should be ignored, the other side harbors such vileness, we do not need it.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)that you were indeed embracing Nazis, but objected to the terms in which I accurately described your desire to appeal to and embrace the Nazis, racists and misogynists.
I skipped over it, and apparently you did too, which is odd, since you wrote it. I guess you're not reading your own posts for comprehension, but do enjoy pretending they don't say what they do.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)So, you dig deeper. Ironic that you can't put up, since we just went through an election wherein one candidate made sport of the truth. But people like tRump can be models for any newbie who wants to try the same. (pssst: don't run for president.)
synergie
(1,901 posts)of the truly nasty elements of this country are not what liberals, progressives and Dems are about. So you dig yourself in, double down and then feign ignorance of what you said and admitted you meant. We did indeed go through an election where a person lied outright , pretended he didn't say what he obviously did, and was indeed all about "sporting" and appealing to the most profoundly disgusting pockets of this country, clearly some do consider him to be a model, and despite his success, only the truly morally bankrupt and intellectually deficient would consider doing what he did.
(psst, you're doing a poor imitation of a non-Trumper, we don't aim to be like the guy you're choosing to model your future behavior on, don't run for president, we're not going to let non-Dems do that again, and your constituency is on the other side, as I keep telling you and you keep demonstrating.)
Projection never works for you guys, despite your dedication to that sad defense mechanism.
Response to synergie (Reply #245)
Post removed
synergie
(1,901 posts)comment, which is why you're personally attacking me for pointing out your lack of honesty here about what you said, what you admitted and what you indeed have doubled down about. For one so busy with ad hominem attacks, you seem to forget that all can and have seen what you have written, and who exactly has been dishonest here, and who is emulating the Orange one by denying what's rather plain to all.
You discredited yourself when you claimed that you wish to embrace nazis and that you engage in the sport of supporting racists, misogynists and those who call out this blatant behavior, furthermore you own attacks prove that you are one such sportsman. I have written no fiction, but you seem to be fond of creating one in which you both acknowledge that what I have said is true, while also projecting your dishonesty. The lies here are your own, so like the Orange one and the deplorables you think the rest of us must court, as we "learn our place" in this country.
You are exposed, and your rather unsportsmanlike conduct of denying that which you plainly do, be it advocating of appealing to Nazis, racists and misogynists or exhorting us all to know our place, is plain for all to see, and yes, you will be reminded of your words from now on.
Sadly, you seem to be intent on abusing me personally, for pointing out what the words you typed meant, even AFTER you expressed that yes, that is indeed what you intended them to say.
Neither you, nor any one who tells any one of us to "know our place" and that we must cater to the most deplorable pockets of this country to be Democrats, will EVER have any credit, that's simply not what real progressives, liberals or Democrats do.
That is indeed how our resident trolls enjoy behaving, since they cannot overcome their inherent characteristics, the lying, the misogyny, the racism, the racist thoughts, and the divisiveness and the knee jerk personal attacks and projection when they are exposed is telling.
You have been exposed. Accusing me of your own crimes won't unring that bell.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)No matter how nicey-nicey you kiss up to them. THEY WILL NOT CHANGE. People who hate on that level WILL NOT CHANGE. Nothing you say or do will make them change.
These are people who voted for someone who made no secret of his bigotry. Dump lied to his supporters many times, about The Wall, about jailing Hillary, about giving them their outdated jobs back that they feel entitled to. But he never hid his bigotry; I'll give him that. He not only didn't hide his bigotry, he flaunted it. He didn't make them bigots, they were already there, ready for him to get them frothing at the mouth at the idea of Blacks, women, LGBT, Muslims, anyone who wasn't a white male to be put In their "place" (as you put it). They LOVED that shit. Remember the rallies? The signs calling Hillary the "c" word? The free use of the "n" word? The "Lock her up" chants? THESE are the people you want to suck up to? Have a good time.
Fuck them, all of them. They voted for an unrepentant bigot because they liked what they heard. No, I'm not going to make nice to them. I couldn't stand the stench.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)A. Whatever number Democrats wish to concede to them.
You should be less interested in my smooching habits, and more interested in changing minds. After all, that is what politics are about.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Period. You can "smooch" them all you want but their minds STILL won't change.
Please don't tell me what I "should" be interested in and I'll leave you to your smooching. Thank you.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)In any case, you don't get to order up your constituency in politics: You deal with it.
I will continue to express my views as I see fit, but I strongly advise you to reconsider your "Period" (as you expressed it) mindset; it is intransigent and will not serve you or any political party well, OK?
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)You certainly can continue to express your views; who's stopping you? Again, I can do without your "strong advice. I'm done with you.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I seldom use the Ignore feature, but this is a good time to use it. Buh-bye.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Cha
(297,123 posts)That's what she said.. what do they call that when facts are twisted to suit their agenda? It's the same thing the M$M did during the primary.. twist Hillary's words to make her look bad instead of the racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, and Islamaphobic.
Thank you, EarlG.
Hekate
(90,637 posts)Just thanks.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)which Clinton never did:
We still have a lot of work to do. And if you think of the work we have to do in our own country, it pales in comparison to the work we have to do around the world. And I'm grateful that in this room are so many people who have broken down barriers, stood up to discrimination and bigotry, fought for the rights of everyone. I was in North Carolina just yesterday and I told them, it's not only that discrimination is wrong. It's bad for business. That state which was led down a pathway of discrimination is seeing the results -- losing jobs, losing the NBA all-star game. Who wants to be associated with a governor and a legislature who set out to hurt the people they're supported to be representing and protecting?"
"In too many places still, LGBT Americans are singled out for harassment and violence. You can get married on Saturday, post your pictures on Sunday and get fired on Monday. That's why we've got to continue the forward march of progress."
"And we cannot do it alone. I cannot do it alone. I'm not like Donald Trump, who says, 'I alone can fix it.' I've never quite figured out what it is he alone can fix. But that's not what you'll hear from me. I think we have to do this together. So, together we're gonna pass the Equality Act to guarantee full equality. We're going to put comprehensive quality affordable healthcare within reach for more people, including for mental health and addiction. We're going to take on youth homelessness, and as my wonderful, extraordinary, great daughter said, we are going to end the cruel and dangerous practice of conversion therapy. We're going to keep working toward an AIDS-free generation, a goal that I set as secretary of State, and with your help we're going to pass comprehensive gun laws...."
"I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.
A significant number of Republicans believe Obama is muslim, many believe blacks are more violent, lazier, undeserving of government assistance, and that all muslims are terrorist. Whether these people are uninformed, ignorant, lazy or flat out racist, Clinton's assessment was correct - the only problem is the political price she had to pay for daring to say it on the campaign trail.
In other words, Sanders can miss me with the BS.
still_one
(92,122 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)
voted for trump. Probably just a coincidence though
JHan
(10,173 posts)I don't need to put aside the realities of divisions in America in order to engage with people politely and sincerely. Racists can also be great parents and friends, and wonderful family members but if the strategy here is to dilute the reasons people voted for a dogwhistling demagogue, I have no words for just how incredibly fked up that is.
aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)this is exactly what Clinton meant in her full statement, which she made in front of LGBT people, that there are Trump supporters who are racist but also those who are really fed up with the system.. so why did the writer slyly infer otherwise? What is Sander's point of criticism when he too acknowledges "Are those people in his camp? Absolutely" -----
Bernie isn't talking about Clinton's original comment, but about post-election analyses that attribute the loss to merely the racism and sexism of Trump supporters. He didn't say that HRC said that all Trump supporters were deplorable.
JHan
(10,173 posts)“There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a ‘deplorable,’ Sanders said, referencing Hillary Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” comment on the campaign trail. “They’re not. These are people who are disgusted, and they are angry at the establishment. And the Democratic Party has not been clear enough, in my view, about telling those people, whether they are white, whether they are black, Latino, Asian American or whatever, women, gay, whatever, that we are on their side.”
And I'm sure, in that tone, if pressed he would have repeated the criticism that the world "Deplorable" should not have been used.
The larger context here is Sanders' criticism that the Democratic Party cannot relate to people, when our platform this year showed that we got it and understood what needed to be done now to combat poverty, climate change etc. Conflating policy with tactical errors and mistakes made by Democrats over the past couple of years is dangerous. I have my suspicions why some are deliberately confusing the two, but it won't help us focus on what we need to do to improve our chances in 2018.
aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)At best it does nothing to help you and at worst it alienates potential voters who might switch over.
It was said at a time when Hillary thought she could not lose.
I think it is a good example of us not relating to people. We have plenty of people within the party that struggle with illegal immigration from the south, understanding the anger of POC, and the push-back of feminism.
JHan
(10,173 posts)is yet another alarming example of how we avoid discussing racism and bigotry in this country.
As Jamelle Bouie said in slate it was "theatre criticism"
"The dismay over Clinton’s comments—the insistence that it represents some kind of insult and not a statement of truth—reflects the degree to which many of our reporters and observers still shy away from these facts. But this moment demands clarity. Readers don’t need to know whether Clinton made a “gaffe.” They need to know whether she was right. Do millions of Americans hold explicitly racist views? Yes. Do roughly half of Donald Trump’s supporters fall into a so-called “basket of deplorables?” Yes."
As a "woman of color" myself, I was amazed because it was the truest statement I had heard all year: a year of pundits and writers and journalists pussy footing around Trump's divisive strategies. And in typical fashion, the focus wasn't on the possibility that the statement was accurate, especially after a year of Trump proving it to be so, but that she said it..
Describing it as a moment of hubris is odd. This was a fundraiser (Edit) by LGBT supporters, where she was making pointed comments about the fear they understandably feel. Was it the smart thing to do politically? no it wasn't - but that doesn't stop it being the truth.
aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)That's what I'm trying to say.
Saying the truth a certain way and winning elections are sometimes different things. I'm sure the audience loved it though. She was right, but now she doesn't have a chance to talk about racism and sexism as president.
JHan
(10,173 posts)And I blame the Media for ignoring the second half of the statement, which was way more insightful than the first half. There was a refusal to even acknowledge that racism was a factor in Trump's support by pundits.
We can't* pretend away the ugliness that is out there, because Bannon and his ilk want Trump's rhetoric to be normalized.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But he has that book to sell and learned the hard way he'd already sold too many of his people on blind hatred of Dems. He's gotta sell those books.
JHan
(10,173 posts)If he can help forward our agenda then fine, I'm okay with standing in solidarity with him for the right reasons even though I disagree with him on many things, but the way he's relating to people who supported a vile individual borders on obsequiousness and I have to wonder the motive for it... Trump supporters are human beings capable of reason and logic, why the coddling? He came right out the gates criticizing "identity politics" before we even had data on how people voted and what they prioritized. Since then I'm watching him with major side-eye.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Is unforgivable. He was completely ignorant of issues in Racist policing as seen in Ferguson, of anti-abortion legislation -anything that might alienate that WWC man- during the campaign. He had no idea people were doing time for not paying fines, that no restrictions at all on abortion is NOT a viable position to take politically, he put down Planned Parenthood in a fit of jealously. I was more and more disappointed as his campaign wore on. And it went on too long.
Now I see he's just a politician who took a gamble he could ignore women and POC and still win, then lost.
He's still trying to recast everything to be about economics alone just as he did when discussing Mike Browns death.
JHan
(10,173 posts)Bernie wants increased funding to Planned Parenthood, he has always supported them, but he has only himself to blame for not building a relationship and forming an alliance with them to get their endorsement - Hillary did, so she got their support. Instead of accepting that, he made insinuations they were "Part of the establishment" which floored me. It exposed how politically destructive he could be because calling progressive minded, liberal organizations that don't endorse you "The establishment" is not only disingenuous but also a stupid move politically..
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And actually harmful. I realized he was never going to function well with his disregard for people who've worked hard in the trenches for years. Between that and the they're all corrupt crap I felt like he'd never get anything done. Too much toxic rhetoric and he still can't help himself. At this point I feel like it was all ego and not being honest enough to disappoint his angriest supporters because he fears a backlash. He created a monster.
think
(11,641 posts)by Clinton to be used this way but it's obvious that many now do use it to label all Trump supporters.
Response to portlander23 (Original post)
Post removed
ProfessorGAC
(64,990 posts)And where is the lie? He never said anything about Hillary in that entire discussion. He specifically referred to the introspection post-election. That has nothing to do with HRC.
And i agree with him, because my first instinct is to consider every Trump voter a racist, a xenophobe, or a moron. After some consideration, they all can't be one of those three. Yet, i admit i first lumped them all into the deplorable category.
Underinformed, maybe. Analytically challenged, probably. But not necessarily morons.
A little xenophobic, perhaps. Abjectly racist with malice, probably not.
So, i'm willing to learn that some of these people were just misguided. Now, i'm not for playing nice with them, but we have to develop tactics to get them to realize they voted against their own best interests and got manipulated over the nothing email scandal that had them trusting a con artist more than HRC.
So, if you're going to disagree with Sanders, fine. But since he is not talking about HRC here, then give some thought as to what "lies and misrepresentations" you're talking about.
I'm not seeing them.
JudyM
(29,225 posts)
True Dough
(17,301 posts)Divisiveness within the party is hopefully going to evaporate in the coming months, but it's still lingering strongly right now, to nobody's benefit.
George Eliot
(701 posts)They were looking for hope and change. They think they are voting self interests. I find it tragic but I understand it. The Dems need to get back to their base which is labor. With all that we've learned over the past two months, there were a lot of mistakes made. Time to stop the emotion and get the party back on track. I'm looking to Bernie and Warren to do just that.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
Certainly not some Democrats around here. Why, you'd think we were a political party!
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts) KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)And Clinton's comments were regrettable, but they were referring to the Pepe the Frog assholes and racist, not all of them.
Maybe Sanders should discuss the Southern Strategy of the Republicans and how Trump basically threw away the dog whistle and just used a bull horn to broadcast outright racist crap.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)No, Bernie. You've made up a fantasy that ignores the message that Democrats and Hillary Clinton conveyed to displaced (white and everything else) workers, which was empathetic and at the same time based in reality. No, coal and steel are not coming back, but we will work to bring the new jobs (like advanced energy technologies) and new training you need to improve your lives as we fight the climate change that is imperiling everyone's future. In the meantime we will make sure you are covered for health care (improving the current system) and we will improve education for your children so that they will have a better chance and reduce the cost of college. And you made up a fantasy in which the wealthy campaign donors control the Democratic party (while ignoring the billionaire donors that control the "winning" party and the millions of ordinary Americans who contributed and volunteered for the Democrat).
What you are essentially saying is that Donald Trump offered them a better deal. No, he offered them lies and hatefulness, and you are condoning their ignorance and/or willingness to ignore the hate. You are saying that anger at the "establishment" is a good thing--establishment, of course, including the scientists and economists and diplomats and intelligence analysts and all the other experienced "establishment" workers who contribute their knowledge and expertise to taking America forward.
Increasingly I am seeing less and less light between Trumpism and Sanderism. Both are narrow and deceitful, selfish and unfactual. Both are willing to close their eyes to bigotry and ignorance in favor of their myopic chosen agendas. Both are stuck in the past with dusty ideologies that want to take us back to times when America was never great.
And no, America will never be perfect--just as you are far from perfect. But we keep striving to move forward, and we can't do that when we bloviate with false equivalencies, untruths, and demagoguery.
Charles Bukowski
(1,132 posts)It's that good.
murielm99
(30,733 posts)Bernie needs to go sit down somewhere and stop looking backwards. We have a lot of work to do over the next four years. This is not helpful.
hunter
(38,309 posts)I'm a radical leftist and an environmental extremist in relation to Bernie Sanders.
But my politics have always been practical and Democratic.
I enthusiastically supported Obama, I think he's one of the great U.S. presidents. I supported Clinton throughout because she was highly qualified for the job.
But so long as I live in the U.S.A., I'll never have any reason or opportunity to vote for a candidate who fully represents my views. We are stuck with a two party system and we have to work within those parameters.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts) bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
kentuck
(111,078 posts)I don't believe it had any bearing on the election.
Those folks were going to vote for Trump anyway. I doubt any of them were on the fence?
ProfessorGAC
(64,990 posts)We don't disagree often but this time we do. Quite frankly, insulting the voters is a bad tactic unless one is absolutely certain of victory. (Think R. Daley in Chicago.) Whether she meant specific collections of people, anybody who was looking at her a little sideways could easily have missed the "half" part of her statement. Since the word "deplorables" was about all that stuck with the MSM, anybody leaning a little bit toward the con man, was never going to tilt back even after the Billy Bush tape, because they felt insulted by the other candidate.
Besides, that's not what Sanders is saying here. He's talking about chalking up all these voters, POST ELECTION, as deplorables.
I agree with him that doing so is a mistake.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)kentuck
(111,078 posts)
You think there were some people that were undecided on whether or not to vote for Trump beofre Hillary made her comments?
I certainly don't think it helped her but I don't know what type of voter would have voted because of that comment?
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)are better understood when not defined in terms of "right" versus "wrong" .....
The Clinton campaign's general election strategy included (but was not limited to) appealing to a segment of the registered republicans. Her policies were not unlike those of moderate republicans in DC. However, that comment -- with synergy from two other issues outside of her campaign's control -- caused many republicans to stick with their party's nominee.
think
(11,641 posts)JudyM
(29,225 posts)The study mentioned in this clip is important to understanding what mattered in the election.
LAGC
(5,330 posts)When you are running to be president of ALL Americans, not just those of your own party, you simply don't write off and alienate huge swaths of people like that. Her "deplorable" comments, no matter how truthful and accurate they were, played a big role in energizing the Republican base and really bringing out especially rural voter turn-out which so surprised everyone on Election Day. Quite a few of these folks would would have likely sat it out and stayed home, but her hostile words galvanized many on the right to GOTV. It really was the turning point in the election, when polls really first started to tighten despite her early considerable lead.
Just like Romney, she thought she was speaking in "friendly" company, so she didn't anticipate her words being cherry-picked for nasty soundbites by the media. But when you have Alex Jones out there rallying all his followers to proudly wear "I'm a Hillary Deplorable" T-shirts and revel in their unashamed racism, xenophobia, and misogyny, it's not a pretty picture... especially once you add all the fake news into the mix.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Thank you.
JHan
(10,173 posts)One is the truth, the other isn't.
There was political damage, but after a year of Trump engaging in 10x worse, the media - as you accurately noted - blew up one half of her statement.
Romney's statement was a pejorative slight against the poor and unfortunate and deserving of condemnation, however calling out those who peddle and support racism and xenophobia is somehow equated with Romney's elitism - the implications of framing it this way is disturbing.
It seems like we're selective about the truth we want exposed- as though some truths should not be called out or named.
Raine
(30,540 posts)
PatsFan87
(368 posts)he's on point here. He's not talking about Hillary, he's talking about post-election analysis and the strategy of the party moving forward. He's warning against painting all Trump voters with a broad, racist brush as many have done- including on here. If we're serious about winning back congressional seats, we need outreach to the Trump voters who can be reached when we're willing to put in the necessary work. Obviously this does not include reaching out to the violent, the racists, the sexists- but the people who desperately want change (though they were misguided in the person they chose to bring the change they need).
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)
kickitup
(355 posts)My two millennial age kids did more than show up for fucking ice cream. They voted for Bernie and then pivoted to Hillary although neither can stand her. Yes, they despise Hillary and the DNC establishment but still voted for her. Imagine that - young people being smart enough to know what's in their best interests even though it might not taste good like the ice cream they ate at Bernie rallies!
But go ahead and write off a bloc of newly engaged voters and demean them with patronizing comments that none of us would appreciate if they were aimed at us. The Democrats need to engage these young people and at least attempt to gain some loyalty from them, because I can assure you their loyalty is for ideals and not political parties.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)With comments like yours, who needs the Russians.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"With comments like yours, who needs the Russians."
I can't make sense of that in any way. Yet I can't stop laughing at it.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Enjoy!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Let's insult and drive away as many voters as possible.
{Pinches self} yep, I'm at a Democratic website.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts) uponit7771
(90,335 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I thought Postmortem 2016 was for re-fighting the primary.
Sid
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts) HassleCat
(6,409 posts)If you're one of those who writes these angry, bitter posts accusing Sanders of Bashing Clinton. Look at the full text of Clinton's "deplorables" remark. It gives exactly the same advice Bernie is giving aboit how to reach out to those who feel disenfranchised. When I read some of these hateful posts, I wonder how we didn't lose more bigly than we did.
ProfessorGAC
(64,990 posts)I said the same above. He's clearly talking about post election analysis. He's not talking about what she said at the time. He's suggesting that we never win them back if we see 100% of them are racists, mysogynists, xenophobes or blithering idiots. Some are, for sure.. That's the "half basket" HRC was talking about.
But, now we need to figure out how to win back one third of the other half. The misguided or misinformed, but not necessarily deplorables. Then elections can't get stolen.
George Eliot
(701 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)gordianot
(15,237 posts)Neo Nazi's, KKK, Birther's, Trump audience thugs set off by Trump hate speech. Some observers to Trump rallies would have help Hillary be more specific. I really think most people do not have a clue what happens at Republican Presidential rallies. In 2008 I went to a Palin rally the language and hate expressed by those around me is still haunting. If I had a dollar for every time I heard the n-word I would have had several hundred. With the Trump supporters I know there was no need for a rally.
Paladin
(28,250 posts)This needs to be moved to the 2016 Postmortem forum, where it can keep company with the rest of such unfortunate dialogues.
think
(11,641 posts)Name calling isn't helping anything.
Hillary may have called some Trump supporters deplorable but now it's a rallying cry for some and it's very counter productive.
Believe it or not people tend to recoil and become defensive when others start calling them names....
treestar
(82,383 posts)so your last sentence applies.
think
(11,641 posts)past it but it still pisses me off when Republicans call me names. I can't deny that. And I have been called many especially during the years I defended President Obama right after he got elected.
"Libtard" was especially disgusting. It further strengthened my resolve to support President Obama and progressive issues...
George Eliot
(701 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)good grief. SMH.
Let's see: libtards, snowflakes (disparagingly), losers, suck it up, buttercups (very popular with them now), stupid, crybabies, whiners, b***ches, pussies, weaklings, elitist (meant disparagingly), commie, coward, feminazi, traitor, unpatriotic, baby killer.
George Eliot
(701 posts)Fortunately, I've been spared. On blogs and radio programs, I've heard that kind of name calling but I consider the source. It's a juvenile trait don't you think?
treestar
(82,383 posts)They gloat about "winning" and that's all they care about.
https://www.salon.com/2016/12/23/conservatism-turned-toxic-donald-trumps-fanbase-has-no-actual-ideology-just-a-nihilistic-hatred-of-liberals/
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)
nini
(16,672 posts)God forbid they be called out for what they are.
think
(11,641 posts)in areas of the country where we did not fare well. His aim is bringing back swing voters. Independents are a growing part of the American landscape.
So it makes sense to try and find common ground on issues as the Democrats have the better solutions. If the Democratic message can reach those people they will probably vote for Democrats again.
From that stand point finding a way to communicate the Democratic message is better served with less contention towards the other side.
The message is aimed more at Trump supporters AND for others in the media and Democratic party who may still be using divisive language that keeps the divisions hard to bridge than just individuals. But it still is better to stick to issues rather than taking a confrontational tone with an adversary if any progress is hoped to be achieved...
nini
(16,672 posts)Both need to be called out on their crap IMHO. That doesn't mean the borderline normal ones can't be reached. But I'll be god damned if part of getting their vote is to excuse their shit. No way.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)There was absolutely NO good reason to vote for Donald Trump. NONE. Anyone who ever thought it was a great idea to make Orange Lincoln Rockwell president, SORRY; you automatically absolved your right to talk down to anyone or be exempt from the well-deserved scorn and contempt you're going to receive. That person DESERVES to get called a moron. COME on.
It's seriously time to STOP the tone trolling.
A CEO who stiffs small businesses and cuts corners on labor was NEVER going to be your champion.
A serial and admitted sexual assaulter was NEVER going to be the champion for the 51% of white women that voted for him.
A man who has zero governmental experience is NOT going to be the sound choice to "shake things up in Washington".
Human rights? Hey, let's ask Vice President-Elect MIKE PENCE what he thinks of those!!
They tend to recoil when people call them names? [font size="4"]I tend to recoil when a whole ton of people just screwed the country beyond it's ability to repair itself!! WHO DO THEY ANSWER TO????[/font]
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Perhaps Democrats should hang out a shingle, saying "Private Party. Not Open to the Public."
nini
(16,672 posts)when their messiah speaks they jump on the bashing bandwagon with him again.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)
madokie
(51,076 posts)if not for a stacked deck he would be.
MYBAD but this is how I PERSONALLY feel. I am not parroting a right wing talking point when I say that either.
George Eliot
(701 posts)No crying for him. He's working to being back the left. Who can complain about that?
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Very good.
Initech
(100,061 posts)There's tons of that shit being passed around, and they don't care!
lapucelle
(18,241 posts)Hillary never said that all Trump supporters were deplorable. She pretty much said exactly what the fiery progressive is quoted as saying in this interview.
Why on earth is anyone still engaged in distorting things that Hillary Clinton said?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
Justice
(7,185 posts)Bernie is not nuanced.
Always telling Democrats what they ought to do. Pontifications that twist what Hillary said.
How about focusing on Trump.
Really sick of this.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Bernie hasn't said one word about fighting the Trump agenda since the election. It's all been about Hillary. He's obsessed with Hillary.
kcr
(15,315 posts)and killing whatever remains of the Left in this country. I'm sure that's not his intention, but that doesn't matter. We're doomed.
Warpy
(111,239 posts)Nobody expected Orange Caligula to win. They were just registering their disapproval with the leadership of both parties delivering the country to Goldman Sachs with a big, shiny ribbon on it for the past few decades.
Now Orange Cal has done the same thing to them, the bait and switch putting Goldman Sachs in charge of the economy again.
They wanted to vote for a wrecking ball. They elected one. Unfortunately, he's aimed at the 99%.
Response to portlander23 (Original post)
Post removed
Generator
(7,770 posts)That's my gut. I don't get the Hillary hate but it really is the answer to everything in my humble opinion. Sanders couldn't even be bothered to call her after the election. AND I don't think he would have won either. That's bullshit in hindsight.
otohara
(24,135 posts)mentioned Sanders in a Tweet about the NYC tuition proposal.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts)resemblance. Who's party are you claiming to speak for anyhoo? Didn't you return to the Senate, after doing untold harm on our eventual nominee, as an Independent? You repeatedly tell us what the Democratic party hasn't done a good enough job at, but you were rejected soundly by more than 3 million of us who did not like your message then, and even less now. Get over yourself.
WhiteTara
(29,701 posts)and stick the knife in a little further. Oh great savior, Bernie of the Little Bird.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)And Clinton did not say that all supporters of the Unspeakable were deplorable. She said about half were.
I don't think that a number can or should have been put on it; but there is a certain proportion of his voters who are fascists, racists and white supremacists. The Unspeakable is, after all, far from non-establishment in the usual sense: he is a billionaire, who inherited a significant amount of his wealth.
But there is undoubtedly also a certain number of people who voted out of hope, however misguided, that the Unspeakable would help them economically or with jobs.
Doubtless the largest number of voters for him are just people who always vote Republican.
I would guess that the largest number of disaffected, anti-establishment citizens worth courting are in that 45% of Americans (and about a third of Brits), who don't vote in general elections at all: some through laziness, some through voter suppression, but some because no candidate speaks to their needs.
What concerns me - not about Bernie, but about some of the people who interpret the results - is that there are some people who think that it may be worth the left 'addressing the concerns' of far-right voters to the point of accepting racism and brutality to minorities of all sorts. This was the case for a long time in the past. The Democrats attracted a reliable Southern (and to some extent elsewhere) vote by accepting Jim Crow. They lost much of it to the Republicans as a result of becoming a party of civil rights. I don't think that, even to get reliable Democratic majorities, it's desirable to go back to the days of George Wallace and Orval Faubus.
And it affects us all, including non-Americans. I am really worried that The Unspeakable and his 'victory' (really the Electoral College's failure) will be used to embolden neo-fascist movements in Europe, including the UK what with fucking Brexit.
Bettie
(16,088 posts)they are simply filled with hate.
They may hate some groups more than others, but they are united by hate and the acceptance of it as normal and right.
It isn't about establishment or anti-establishment. It is about hate.
George Eliot
(701 posts)That kind of accusation I wouldn't have expected from anyone on the left. Why do you feel that way?
Bettie
(16,088 posts)they accepted and welcomed the endorsements by the KKK for example.
They were A-OK with him mocking the disabled.
They believe that him bragging about sexually assaulting women is just "locker room banter".
How else should they be characterized? As the best and most decent people out there? Are we supposed to praise them for feeling free to display their hatred of anyone who isn't them?
I am related to a freakishly large number of these people and I know one thing. I can never trust these people again. I've seen who they are, they have shown me who they are and it is not pretty.
I will not forget who they are.
But, sure, I suppose our best way forward is to tell them that they are the finest people who ever lived. Their hate means nothing, their disdain for people who are not them is wonderful. We should all cheer when our social fabric is shredded, be grateful that Putin is the new heroic figure, be proud that our treasury will be robbed blind....becasue those people who voted for that creature are the best people we have.
Not buying it. Never. Ever. Perhaps you admire him and believe that he and his supporters are just fine.
But I don't.
George Eliot
(701 posts)who need jobs and want a roof over their heads. If Dems had paid attn, we'd likely still have them. I feel sorry for them. I've heard many say on interviews they would have voted dem if the dems has paid attn to them.
Sounds like you do know first hand a lot of the worst. I agree there are some really stupid ones out there. I just can't include all of them.n
Charles Bukowski
(1,132 posts)for people who looked at an unqualified misogynist bigot like Trump and decided to cast their vote for him. Fuck ALL 63 million of them.
This isn't 1933 where I'm going to shed tears for the Rust Belt working class. Not when the unemployment rate in those states is under 6%.
Fuck 'em.
The people Trump demonized - - THEY have my sympathies. Trump voters deserve everything that's coming to them. They asked for it.
Bettie
(16,088 posts)Could there be better jobs available in all states? Yep, it would be nice to have better wages and benefits again.
You don't get those things from old-style Republicans and you certainly don't get them from pirate capitalists.
He demonized people in order to make those working class white people feel superior and feel that he was on their side.
Anyone with the intelligence of a rutabaga knows that a born-rich guy who has probably never so much as tied his own shoes is NOT one of the working class and will never, ever be on their side.
People who voted for this man will not have my sympathy when he rips the rug out from under them. I'm just sorry that the rest of us will have that happen as well.
Cha
(297,123 posts)
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)This silly narrative is completely insignificant, and by the way applies to some tiny fraction of HRC voters too, as some KKK types endorsed her against Bernie because he's jewish (if I made a poster about this it would be just as silly)
Lumping Jonny lunchbox and Grandpa Joe in with a group of white supremisists is ludacris, it alienates them and also can actually push them further in that direction. It is just bad politics.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)EVERY TIME trump tweeted, instantly there was his white power frog account with the first reply. Trump ran abut 10 twitter accounts himself. IMO, one of his sons brought that hate group on board with daddy's campaign.
This is the same hate group who started 'marking' Jews with brackets around their names. Republicans allowed a hitler in their party, gave him credibility.
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)He's clever to separate politics from rhetoric here. Some people will take it as an attack on Hillary though instead of a strategy to move forward.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)If they voted for a candidate endorsed by Nazis, supported by white supremacists, who benefited from a foreign propaganda campaign, they're deplorable BY DEFINITION!
mercuryblues
(14,530 posts)Bernie be right and Clinton be wrong, when they basically said the exact same thing?
Here is what Clinton actually said:
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
So she said the same thing that Bernie is suggesting she should have said.
librechik
(30,674 posts)it was obvious to anyone who cared to listen that Hillary wasn't talking about Trump voters. She was talking about the gang of donors, con artists and thieves who bought the office for him.
Hillary had all her words twisted to sound evil. I know how that feels, and it sucks.
synergie
(1,901 posts)Response to portlander23 (Original post)
BainsBane This message was self-deleted by its author.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)And you know what? It doesn't matter because the deplorable half and the non-deplorable half are going to get screwed alongside the rest of us.
The only difference is, I have zero sympathy for either half -- deplorable or not. The mewling of Trump supporters who suddenly find out that they're getting the shaft will be met by nothing but my congratulations on the effectiveness of their "anti-establishment" protest slongside my estimate of their intelligence if they couldn't see it coming.
Deplorable or not, Trump voters were universally MORONS.
delisen
(6,042 posts)Pholus
(4,062 posts)I don't think ANYONE has more than a 5 second attention span these days.
I kind of thought Bernie was smarter than that, but I suppose he's just playing the game.
blue cat
(2,415 posts)But I am sick to death of liberals thinking that we can win over people who are programmed by Alex Jones and Rush to hate liberals. Don't you guys ever talk with real deplorables? We need to get out the vote from people who support us, not try to win something that isn't winnable. How are we suppose to twist ourselves? F U Bernie and everyone else who speaks along these lines. This is why we lose, being panties waste beggars to people who hate our policies.
blue cat
(2,415 posts)When the republicans are concerned about dismissing people like me...I won't hold my breath.
delisen
(6,042 posts)Bernie set up a straw man then knocked it down. I expect this bs from Trump, not Sanders, so I am very disappointed in Sanders:
Here is what Clinton actually said: (Transcript from Los Angeles Times)
"I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
<http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-transcript-clinton-s-full-remarks-as-1473549076-htmlstory.html>
jalan48
(13,856 posts)Grassroots is the way to go. Let's elect politicians that put the working class first, not Wall Street.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)you are worse than deplorable.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Is that because he was elected I , so he can not change to D until his term is up?
So what do some think
will he continue on to the established D party or will he try to head a third party movement for the ' 18 elections?
Besides the book sales I don't know where he is going with all his post election comments , not officially a party member yet, does he ever say he will really join the current D party after his I term ends?
ecstatic
(32,681 posts)The point is, the vast majority of them are extremely misinformed and their ignorance has cost us dearly. MSNBC did a panel with them that included Sanders, who by the way, was an apologist who nodded his head as the ignoramuses spewed/repeated one lie after another. Due to their selfish votes, we couldn't overtake GOP voter suppression / cheating in key states.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)people who would have voted for Bernie Sanders, had he been the Democratic Party's nominee. Trump appealed to the disgruntled and dissatisfied, yes, but they're not the people who were dissatisfied in the same way as Sanders supporters were.
They will not vote for progressive candidates in the future, either. They are not the audience we need to reach. Instead, we need to reach dissatisfied and disgruntled voters who did not vote at all in the 2016 election. Those are the people we need on our side, not people who would vote for a Donald Trump.
Bernie's wrong on this. If we attempt to go after Trump voters, we will fail again and again. Instead, we need to go after those who did not vote and get them to vote to help themselves. Trump voters are pissed off, it's true, but they're not pissed off about the same things we are, frankly.
We need to stop wasting our time on people who will never vote for progressives. We need to concentrate on those who are so discouraged that they didn't vote at all, I believe.
oasis
(49,370 posts)this thread should bookmark your post# 236, and study it carefully. 
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)He is as establishment as it gets.
JustAnotherGen
(31,805 posts)He should get to work on a voter registration drive.
