If a store posts on it front door, "Muslims not welcome here"

[duhneece]

Is that legal? I went to a store and they had this on its front door. I let them know I would not shop there and owner said something about free speech and I said the money I spend is a form of free speech, too... I took a photo and am wondering if 'not welcome' is ok whereas 'not allowed' is illegal because Muslims are a protected group because of religion.

[samir.g]

1. I hope their insurance is paid up

Just kidding. I really hope they don't have any.

[LonePirate]

2. A lawyer should chime in but I think there is a difference between "not welcome" and "not served".

Sort of like there is a difference between "Keep out" and "Trespassers will be prosecuted."

[duhneece]

3. That's what I'm thinking, too

But I hope an attorney does chime in.

[panader0]

31. Here it is---took me a while.

[frankieallen]

33. what is the name and address of the store? maybe we can give them a call?

[duhneece]

40. Here they are...

Mayhill Convenience Store ?
1.16 Google reviews
Convenience Store
Address: US-82, Mayhill, NM 88339
Phone: [phone]

[dixiegrrrrl]

45. They openly use the N word?????

Is that Klan territory?

Call the ACLU and see if the Muslim sign is legal.

[HopeAgain]

61. Phone disconnected

I'm not afraid to call...lol

[Archae]

34. Racism, bigotry, the whole ball of wax. What does that place sell?

Looks more like this guy is trying to get media attention, and thus more customers.

[duhneece]

42. Our mountain folks are the most racist and bigoted in our county..

and our county is 48% Republicans so you can imagine that that says a lot.
Not sure exactly what they sell as I didn't look around after stating my disapproval.

[The Genealogist]

35. Legal or not, those signs are a real turn-off

Clearly a hateful bigot has this business. I'm sure that his fellow hateful bigots patronize the place loyally, but seeing these on the door, I'd just turn around and not even walk in the building.

[metroins]

41. That's fucked up

Wow.

[bdamomma]

60. these are sick a$$ people

doing this. Why all this hate???? If you asked them they probably would not know why.

[LeftyMom]

82. How can somebody go "back" to Africa if they were born in Wisconsin?

[Ever-Green]

87. I'd avoid that place

just for the bottom sign in addition the others!

[Bucky]

19. I'm not an attorney, but...

That sign is a categorical violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Discrimination on the basis of religion is not allowed in public facilities like stores. Ever.

[unblock]

52. i'm pretty sure that's what they call "a distinction without a difference"

they're violating civil rights either way.

it may change the case somewhat to actually refuse to serve a muslim, vs. to serve a muslim but do several things to make them feel very unwelcome.

but that's a hypothetical action in a hypothetical situation, and that's not the actual question. the actual question is about the sign itself. keep in mind that the store owner could always say "oh that's just a joke! of course we'd happily welcome and serve anyone, including muslims!"

either way, the sign itself is unwelcoming and i believe that to be a violation of civil rights regardless of actual treatment of muslims once inside. most likely, though, i would expect actual treatment of muslims to only make the situation worse.

[Skittles]

4. you need to post the pic

[sfwriter]

8. A viral post is free speech too.

[Humanist_Activist]

5. Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that sign might be illegal...

the store, I'm assuming, doesn't maintain a member's only list, and hence is a business of public accommodation.

Now, to actually get them to take down the sign, contact the ACLU, or CAIR, and have some lawyers threaten to sue them for breach of said Civil Rights act.

The only ambiguity is whether the store owner/operator follows through with the sign and actually refuses to do business with people he suspects are Muslim, that is highly illegal and actionable.

[Ms. Toad]

6. Not legal.

The local ACLU would likely be interested in your photo & whatever information you can provide.

[Jim Beard]

64. Apparently you didn't google Mayhill.

[Ms. Toad]

66. I don't need to google Mayhill to know discrimination in public accommodations

based on religion or ethnicity is against the law.

(If you were referring to the distance from a local ACLU, the location wasn't posted until long after I made my suggestion.)

[Jim Beard]

69. I was chuckleing trying to find the ACLU building. Sorry my entertainment was at your expense.

You can fire back at me

[Ms. Toad]

71. .

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. I don't know but I wouldn't go there. nt

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. Violating the law, I think.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/title-ii-civil-rights-act-public-accommodations

Title II Of The Civil Rights Act (Public Accommodations)

42 U.S.C. §2000a (a)All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

The sign implies that other customers would be "welcome," a privilege/advantage for the other customers denied to Muslims based on their religion.

[TheBlackAdder]

10. "Full and equal" are the key words, and that sign steps on both of them.

[Bucky]

20. no, saying welcome instead of served is not a protection against discrimination claims

Singling out a religious group is the illegal behavior here, legally no bueno. The unmistakable intent of the sign is to discriminate and to deny equal access to a public service.

[BunkieBandit]

86. Public Servant/Public Service (Elected usually) is not the same as service to the public.

Meaning as disgusting as those sign are they are on private not public property. Does anyone else know the difference?

[TexasProgresive]

11. "plus a change, plus c'est la mme chose" - Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr

This sign reminds me of the ones common in my youth. They were not so in your face as "Muslims not welcome here." But they had the same effect. "WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE." I seem to remember they disappeared around the time of the Civil Rights Act.

[cwydro]

12. Post the pic please. nt

[Jim Beard]

63. You can see it on Google earth.

Try this

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mayhill+Convenience+Store/@32.8907319,-105.4789617,686m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86e1a16a9b1b050d:0xe6a15ec72db4dd65!8m2!3d32.8906598!4d-105.478039?hl=en

or this

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8907708,-105.477963,3a,75y,280.15h,72.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOyiQ5abaSZzWxFaLXY-1Hg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

[forthemiddle]

13. Devils advocate question

We have seen many, many posts on here of businesses, and celebrities refusing to work for Trump, or his supporters. Most here didn't agree with it, but far to many did.
Unlike race, and sexual orientation, religion is a choice (like politics) why are we so up in arms about this sign, and not the plumber that refuses to do work for a Trump supporter.
I was raised Catholic, and I choose not to attend church today.
I do realize that religion is part of the Civil Rights laws, but my question is if that is, why isn't a persons political party protected in the same way? They are both choices.

[treestar]

14. Because that is not in the civil rights act

and that's really a choice, even a religion is usually indoctrinated in you as a child.

[forthemiddle]

15. As an adult you can choose to quit your religion

I know it's not part of the Civil Rights Act, but many people are indoctrinated in politics too. I was raised in a very Conservative family, but made my own choice as an adult on who to vote for.
I just think as a business you either serve everyone, or no one.
I feel the same about the Rockettes. You are hired for a job, either you do your job, or your fired.

[LaydeeBug]

17. I see. Do you feel the same way about Pharmacists? They either do their job, or they're fired?

nt

[forthemiddle]

18. Yes

[WinkyDink]

26. That's pretty much a requirement of, you know, employment. DO. YOUR. JOB.

[Tanuki]

47. "Short fingered lying spray tanned racist serial molesters" is not a protected class under the law.

So everyone is free to shun the unpresident-elect.

[LeftyMom]

83. Because religious discrimination often has a racial tinge.

A man shouted at a friend of mine on the street, and chased her and threatened her with violence, while yelling slurs about her presumed religion. He didn't ask about her religious views or if she enjoys an alcoholic beverage. He saw her skin tone, he started screaming.

My Italian-American ancestors got called every slur for Catholics in the book, in spite of Protestants. My Hungarian-American ancestors didn't because they're generically white looking, and they're all unusually devout Catholics.

[LaydeeBug]

16. Really? Can we put KGOPB not welcome here?

[MichMary]

48. Pretty much, yeah.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/27/cannot-eat-here-hawaii-caf-riles-residents-with-ban-on-trump-voters.html

Honolulu’s Café 8 ½ gets rave reviews on Yelp for its “Radiatore Verde” and “Italian stir fry,” among other popular dishes at the eclectic mom-and-pop restaurant – but the response to its new 'policy' barring pro-Trump patrons has been decidedly more mixed.

A bright yellow, handmade sign posted on the restaurant's front glass door declares: “If you voted for Trump you cannot eat here! No Nazis.”

[Vinca]

21. If you ever happen to go there again, ask him how he would know what someone's religion is.

I could walk into his store in a burka, but I'd still be an atheist.

[awoke_in_2003]

74. Atheist are probably the one group in America...

less popular than Muslims. BTW, I am an atheist.

[Vinca]

79. True and most of us act more like "Christians" are supposed to than "Christians."

[progressoid]

81. We (atheists) used to be the least trusted group in the US

But we've moved up in the last few years.

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/21/the_numbers_are_in_america_still_distrusts_atheists_and_muslims_partner/

[awoke_in_2003]

88. Interesting chart. nt

[duhneece]

22. Yay, halfway there

I am super low-tech. I took it with a phone a friend lent me, but didn't know how to get it on DU. My daughter emailed it to me, I saved it on my laptop pictures, but don't know how to post it on here. I don't see the 'how'. I could email it to another DUer if I had their email or could someone give me instructions.

[panader0]

23. Go to the photography forum under Arts and Humanities

The instructions about how to post are pinned there.
Out of curiosity--What town or city was this? I assume it was in your district.

[duhneece]

24. Mayhill outside of Cloudcroft New Mexico

Yes, it's in my state rep district...but I am struggling to upload picture. I couldn't get my password for the longest time on photobucket so I tried my facebook account and it keeps going back to original first page of bucket. Shit hell piss fuck. Now it has gone to 'Sorry an unexpected error has occurred on my attempt. I have to go to town. My friends on fb are pinboy3niner and loudsue but they're not on now. Can you please send me your email by personal message?

[Nevernose]

46. Yay!

It's not just me! lol

I'd say that the primary reason people have children is to operate technology. After that comes stuff like love and family. Technology? Number one use. I fix my mom's computer, my daughter tells me how to use the cell phone, and someday her children will help her operate the...o don't know. Virtual reality machine? Virtual reality machine. We'll go with that.

On a semi-serious note: One of the most effective bond-making exercises I've ever done with my high school students is handing one my phone and saying "Put this on my The Facebook for me. Great essay/poem/research paper you wrote, I want my teacher friends to read it."

[WinkyDink]

25. This must be the Mayhill store. Also signs that say "Obama and other Muslims Not Welcome Here":

And "KILL OBAMA":



http://www.patheos.com/blogs/irreverin/2016/03/something-wicked-this-way-comes-when-trump-comes-to-town/



https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/3hm8pm/the_owner_of_this_store_in_mayhill_new_mexico/?st=ix92xw60&sh=2656ee7f

[oberliner]

39. It actually says "Kill Obama(Care)"

With the "Care" part written in very small print.

[smirkymonkey]

53. WTF?

How do these people stay in business? This is sick!

[Jim Beard]

62. Do a google earth and you will see it is in the middle of nowhere but very far from the last restro

He really doesn't have enough customers to lose. Just a cranky old turd who hates everyone.

[awoke_in_2003]

75. Upthread is the full pic...

it also has a sign that calls Collin Kaepernick a half breed, and to go back to Africa. You know what I like about store owners like this? I don't accidently give my money to a racist asshole.

[Moosepoop]

78. "Send the half breed Back to Keyna"

Keyna?? Yep... K-E-Y-N-A

This guy's a real rocket scientist, all right!

[renate]

89. honestly, I think that person must be at least slightly mentally ill

I mean, who DOES this?

The inside of his mind must be an utterly awful place to live.

[WhiteTara]

27. If it is, Don't go in.

The only thing they know is their money. Give them less.

[forgotmylogin]

56. Muslims not welcome nobody is welcome.

[WhiteTara]

67. That's my motto.

[WinkyDink]

28. Anyone want to buy the place in the OP? Apparently the signs are legal, as store is closed.

http://www.unitedcountry.com/search06/SearchViewProperty.asp?SID=246029490&Item=872146&Lcnt=&Page=&Office=30015&No=30015-01905&FT=P&NH=F

[duhneece]

36. The store was still open on December 22, 2016..

I was going from La Luz, NM (outside of Alamogordo, NM) to Lubbock and wanted coffee. Definitely didn't get it. I am going back to Lubbock in Jan or Feb and want to wear a scarf identifying myself as a Muslim. When Trump came out saying he was 'making a list, checking it twice' for Muslims, I actually said I was a Muslim on facebook (maybe DU, but I can't find it so I think it was on fb).
Oh, WinkyDink, I am so grateful for your posting and more info.

[Jim Beard]

65. The tall sign out front says free coffee. I could read it on Google earth.

You drive through a lot of oil country.

[lunatica]

29. Take your business to the Muslim run store

[WinkyDink]

30. See above. It's closed down.

[WinkyDink]

32. No joke: This is the owner, Bill Crouch. Previous bout with the law and a cemetery:

http://www.artesianews.com/804707/commission-approves-funds-for-sunset-gardens.html

https://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/apcemetery12-05-05.htm

[duhneece]

37. He's both ignorant and a liar

The highway going past his store got 'government money'....I imagine many of his customers has a good public education just to mention a few 'government help' monies.

[eleny]

50. He's also an ignorant liar if he ever accepted food stamps as payment for food he sells

[forgotmylogin]

57. Is he related to the Crouches of Trinity Broadcasting Network?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Broadcasting_Network

[Jim Beard]

68. He was sentenced to prison for a year and a half in 2005 digging up a womans ashes

buried in his private cemetery. He is mad because he keeps breaking the law and blames the government for it. They never cause the problem.

[LeftyMom]

84. He seems nice.

[matt819]

43. Free speech

What these morans don't understand that free speech is certainly guaranteed, at least for the moment, but it doesn't guarantee the lack of consequence.

There's a business in town - car detailer - that proudly displayed its support for Trump. I have proudly displayed my opinion by not patronizing them.

There's an online business selling Jewish food that proudly announced its gratitude for the election of a Republican Jewish guy. I proudly decided to make my purchase on another website.

I'm not starting a movement to denigrate these businesses or their owners. These are my own individual, personal decisions. I would hope that others act accordingly.

[Thor_MN]

44. What is this asshole going to focus their hate on after Jan 21st?

[Else You Are Mad]

49. I have a feeling...

That these types will be blaming Obama for everything for a decade or more.

[underpants]

51. No. public accommodation. You can discriminate based on WHAT people do not WHO they are

[smirkymonkey]

55. Ugh! Sick, sick people.

I am so glad I live in Boston. People here would never put up with that shit.

[MFM008]

58. Nothing to say

To blatant racism.
It's out. Loud and proud.
Its the Age of the maggot.

[MineralMan]

59. I would not enter that store, in solidarity with Muslims.

I'd probably tell the store owner why I was no longer coming in, too.

[Calculating]

70. Another Trump supporter

If only we could reach out to people like this somehow.........

[WillowTree]

72. That just can't be good for business.

[Skittles]

73. I know I would not shop there

no indeed

[duhneece]

76. But since the vast majority of his neighbors see things the same as he does....

it's actually good for the majority of his customers. The shape of things to come.

[duhneece]

77. I filed a complaint with ACLU

When I get a response, I'll let DU and this post's commenters know as soon as I know.

[yuiyoshida]

80. I have this sneaky suspicion that once THE DONALD IS Sworn it...

we will see many, many more signs like this across the nation.

[progree]

85. Our glorious blue state of Minnesota has had one of these for a long time - in Lonsdale, MN

Deplorable sign in small-town Minnesota 'supports' St. Cloud by saying 'Muslims get out', City Pages, 9/22/16

At least one resident of that town (actually about 100 miles southeast of St. Cloud; Minneapolis is a lot closer) complained in such a way that the local police got involved to end an "altercation," according to the Lonsdale News Review.

Owner Dan Ruedinger realized his original message was being misunderstood, so he added the words "IN SUPPORT OF ST. CLOUD." Thanks Dan. Now we get it.

http://www.citypages.com/news/deplorable-sign-in-small-town-minnesota-supports-st-cloud-by-saying-muslims-get-out/394120851
http://stmedia.stimg.co/ctyp+muslims+get+out.jpg?w=800

It reads

FOOD ICE CREAM M-SAT
CB FRY, POP 5.99 11-4
MUSLIMS GET OUT
IN SUPORT OF ST CLOUD (((yes, one "P&quot ))


As far as I know, its still there. Being such a tiny little town, though, its probably about 5 years between Google Street View updates.

[duhneece]

90. So much hate.

Christians'' commit many crimes here, far more than Muslims..