Bernie and Elizabeth gearing up to head

[rainy]

the progressive part of the Democratic Party:

While the Democratic Party is still reeling from the shock of Donald Trump’s upset victory in November, progressives are already planning for how to effectively react to the upcoming Trump administration — and reclaim the party for one of their own in 2020.

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/28/bernie-sanders-and-elizabeth-warren-want-to-lead-the-progressive-movement/

[CTyankee]

1. wonderful, wonderful...

[ananda]

7. ditto, ditto...

[brush]

42. Just one minor detail, he's again not a Democrat.

He switched back to being an independent. What's up with that?

How can he speak for us if he prefers not to be one of us?

If you're going to speak for Dems be a Dem.

[napi21]

55. I don't care wether he's a Dem, an Indi, or some new Party, I like what he says and how he says it.+

IMO, the Democratic Party isn't even a Party right now. I'm not sure who or what to blame it on, but where the Party is now is in a political grave. t seems to me that all of our fighters are gone. Ted Kennedy, even Anthony Weiner, although he was aq jackass, he was a fighter in Congress. I can't think of other names right now, but other than Elizabeth & Bernie, who really fights the Pubs?

[brush]

56. WTH doesn't he just join the party and stay in it?

That's one reason he lost the primary. Many thought he was just using the party to get the national recognition he couldn't get as an independent.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

77. Why does he have to? Why does the label matter more than the actual work?

[brush]

83. One reason is, some feel he uses the party for exposure he can't get as an independent

He lost thousands of votes in the primaries because many voters thought he was using the party for that very reason.

Join the party already and stop the cute crap of saying "but I caucus with the Democrats;"

Be a Democrat for God's sake.

It matters to a lot of Democrats who are proud of being Democrats.

Why isn't he?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

84. "Some feel"? Who are "some"? And why does his party identification

not seem to bother the real Democrats in the Senate, who have appointed him the head of their budget committee? If it was such a BFD, why don't those Democrats seem to have any issues with it? Maybe because they're smart enough to recognize that he can be a big help to them and all this intraparty sniping is getting to be really, really stupid and counterproductive?

And you might want to cite your source for your claim that he lost "thousands of votes" in the primaries because he ran as a Democrat after not having been one previously. I call bullshit.

[brush]

87. Call bullshit if you want. It was discussed many times here during the primaries

Don't see how you missed it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

116. "It was discussed many times here"

Yes, we also all read the horrible smears against Bernie during the primaries. "Bernie Bros", anti-BLM, living in a fantasy world etc..

And to be fair, there was also a lot of Hillary bashing that went too far. Thats the nature of a primary race. But they both came together afterwards. Unlike the runner up Cruz's non-endorsement at the Rethugs convention.

Just because you saw some anonymous post on a message board saying something does not make it a fact.

[True Dough]

90. Really, I'm not stalking you!

I just bump into your posts in various threads and usually feel like:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

91. Thank you!

[brush]

85. Ask him why it matters to him to not stay in the party. Why is not being a Democrat important to him

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

88. Because it isn't important to him, and that's his decision.

It doesn't seem important to the Democrats in the Senate, either. Why is the f*cking label so important to you?

In my state voters don't register with a party, so technically I'm not a Democrat even though I've voted that way since 1972. Does that mean I can't post on DU?

[JustAnotherGen]

100. My friend - do not worry

President Obama will finish out his term. He will go on vacation. He will be back.

He's won the highest office in the country not once, but twice. Trump is talking out of school with this "we won't go against each other" nonsense.

Obama is the leader of the Democratic Party. He will be driving the actions of Booker Gillibrand, Harris, Castro - the Gen Xers. Not Sanders or even Warren. And on the Warren tip - midterms she can't play the "I'm not running or maybe I am" game. 2018 she has to defend her seat. The national attention she receives or doesn't receive will have a strong influence on 2020.

[safeinOhio]

2. Where the hell do I

send my $35?

[eleny]

8. +1!

[Eleanors38]

3. Now, we're talking!

[Chasstev365]

4. Count me in!

[Iggo]

5. Sanders and Warren.

And sign me up.

[red dog 1]

6. K&R

[Greybnk48]

9. I'm in!

If someone comes on here and tries to derail this post by arguing that "Bernie's not technically a Democrat" ignore them. Keep this going!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

21. I'm all in, and not to worry... the naysayers will jump on board the Bernie Bandwagon before long! The movement he started will NOT go quietly into the night, count on it!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[pangaia]

58. I have no idea if THEIR idea is Bernie and Liz 2020.

But right now that doesn't matter. It is what they are doing that I LIKE !!!!!

[pangaia]

57. In my opinion those people who keep saying that over and over and over and over and over and

over and over and over.... don't get it.

(Now I am waiting to be accused of 'despising democrats," which happened a couple of days ago&gt

[elleng]

10. 'If the Democratic party rejects the Sanders base, it will be at their extreme peril.'

[jalan48]

17. +1000!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. It will be the death knell of the Democratic Party... why I don't see that happening, as more and more people are warming to Bernie...

I see it here on DU as well... will only increase exponentially as people begin to see the first 100 days of the Fuhrer-Elect's administration take shape. Talk about buyer's remorse!!

[elleng]

26. I hope you're right, as to 'not happening,'

but I don't see it so much here on DU. I try to avoid 'hot' threads, but do see a lot of bashing of Senator Sanders.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Just give it time; nerves are still frayed so soon after the election. Bernie has a way of winnin over people-they'll see he was right all along...

and most fair-minded people will give him another chance. After all, we gave Hillary a "second bite" at the apple... now, it's Bernie's turn.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[elleng]

29. WITH YOU, re: TIME.

[R B Garr]

93. You left out the first part of the quote about divisiveness.

His whole experience with using the Democratic party has been divisive. It's too late to talk about extreme peril since that divisiveness already cost an election.

[elleng]

95. IF it has been 'divisive,'

I'd credit the Dem Party and/or 'members' for such perception.

'The job of opposing Donald Trump will seemingly fall to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who became Hillary Clinton’s chief rival in the 2016 Democratic primaries by running on an unapologetic left-wing economic, social and foreign policy agenda.

“Progressives are used to punching up, but here we find ourselves in a real position of credibility and power,” said Rep. Raul Grijalva of Arizona, a co-chair of the Congressional Progressive caucus, in an interview with The Guardian on Wednesday. Sanders has already been chosen as minority leader for the Democrats on the Senate’s powerful budget committee, and as The Guardian notes, his next move will be to make sure that fellow progressive Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota becomes the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

“Right now we are fighting for the chair of the DNC and it is truly emblematic of the division within the Democrats,” said RoseAnn DeMoro, executive director of the National Nurses United and a Sanders supporter. “If the Democratic party rejects the Sanders base, it will be at their extreme peril.”'

He's always supported and fought for Democratic/progressive/liberal approaches to issues.

[R B Garr]

96. Quote about divisiveness from right before your pick:

“Right now we are fighting for the chair of the DNC and it is truly emblematic of the division within the Democrats,”

That is an admission of the divisiveness.

[elleng]

97. DIVISION, fact.

DIVISIVENESS, perception, imo.

'fighting for the chair of the DNC' There surely is division on that issue, about approaches of the 4? contenders. Nothing wrong with that.

I saw an interview couple days ago, including the contenders. They are largely in agreement on approach, including Ellison. OTHERS, in fact, emphasize MORE than he did need to get out and down to the grass roots. Same approach 'applauded' by POTUS recently, when describing his pre-'08 campaign.

[Grey Lemercier]

107. Sanders's base is not the Democratic party's base.

In fact many of them actively worked to help elect Trump either directly or indirectly.

[elleng]

115. No.

[PatsFan87]

11. They make for a powerful 1-2 punch!

Watch out Trump!

[CousinIT]

12. GREAT news! n/t

[OKNancy]

13. Warren - fine

"one of their own" ????

Sanders is not a Democrat so I don't care what he has to say or what he does. I'm real suspicious of his motives anyway.

[CentralMass]

15. Bernie has been consistent with his views for decades.

[elleng]

18. Thanks for this, CentralMass.

'Foolish' that any here would question Senator Sanders' motives.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Agreed!

[pangaia]

61. I know. It is appalling.

[Amimnoch]

35. Agree.

Warren I'd be 100% behind.

Others don't want to accept the independent's part culpability for the current tRump administration, but I will never forgive, forget, or support.

[OldYallow]

37. WTF Are You Talking About

Bernie is a real democrat. Roosevelt not DLC. Wake up before it is too late.

[Amimnoch]

101. Having a few ideas of similarity does not a Roosevelt make.

FDR never identified as an independent, heckling the party he supported from the outside.

FDR built a coalition for the new deal that included bankers, labor, oil, and included all of the Democratic party insiders, religious minorities, and minorities for many different walks of life. It was so effective that political scientists, and journalists of the time referred to the coalition as the "fifth party system". FDR built bridges to form this coalition, not sat on the outside heckling everyone with differing points of view.

The New Deal President wasn't a political and financial outsider, identifying himself as an independent that sat back and criticized/insulted the coalition he wanted to build.

Having a few ideas that mirror the spirit of the New Deal President while behaving in a manner completely contrary to the New Deal President doesn't make for a new New Deal President.

You cannot spew rhetoric that divides the coalition you want to build, and expect it to produce a coalition that is effective. Perhaps I am not the one that needs to "wake up".

[ProfessorGAC]

108. Tortured Logic

You blame someone for participating in the primary process and ruining the general election?

Sounds like the opposite of democratic. Remember you said, NEVER support

[Amimnoch]

109. Tortured logic?

Unless there is an alternate definition, please explain how my logic is "tortured"?

Your argument, however is a complete strawman. At no point did I make the assertion that he was at fault for participating in the primary process, and ruining the general election by doing so. However, it is quite telling that the conclusion you come to out of my brining up his culpability leads you directly to that conclusion.

You are correct, I did say never support (although I didn't stress it with capitalization as you have). I can concede that is strong language, and probably not completely accurate, since there are scenario's where I'd reconsider that position, so let me abridge: It is highly unlikely that I will ever support him.

[Maru Kitteh]

54. I agree with you OKNancy. When he stops calling himself a Dem at his convenience only

and actually joins the party, I might be persuaded to listen to what he has to say.

Maybe.

[pangaia]

62. So, am I right that it is not what he says and does that is important t you,

but that he joins a 'club?'

[pangaia]

60. What do you think his motives are?

[lapucelle]

14. The claim is unsourced.

[jalan48]

16. Yeah baby!

Good to see Bernie and Elizabeth leading the charge.

[world wide wally]

19. And I know who their perfect candidate should be for 2020.

He looks lovely like every American male over 50
He appeals to working people.
He is progressive through and through.
He has won election and reelection in a rust belt state.
And he is pretty smart and cool ...
I nominate Sherod Brown!

[pnwmom]

20. They are free to join Patty Murray and other progressives leading the party. n/t

[Raster]

24. Gosh on the surface, you comment almost sounds nice...

[pnwmom]

25. So does the OP.

[Raster]

27. It's a DIRECT QUOTE from the article in Salon.

[pnwmom]

32. So? The OP chose to post it, implying an endorsement of the views it expressed. n/t

[zonkers]

22. Yay yay yay

[NJCher]

30. yippee

There's no one better.


Cher

[Feeling the Bern]

33. I am a proud member of the Elizabeth Warren/Bernie Sanders faction of the Democratic Party!

Principle over Party! Liberal principles over DLC New-Democrats.

More Warrens, less Harold Ford Jr's.

[zentrum]

34. Bernie and Warren

……are our most powerful Democrats as of right now. I'm in and have been from the beginning.

[BainsBane]

36. If the goal is to unite Democrats

in opposition to Trump's agenda, Warren is an excellent choice. Sanders, however, remains a divisive figure.

[OldYallow]

38. Divisive?

You can tell by the millions who supported his plan for taking on the oligarchy. My republican friends would have voted for Bernie. Both of them.

[BainsBane]

39. Yes, divisive

His response to the general election loss was to attack Clinton and the Democratic Party,, which is precisely how he spent the primary. During the primary, he also attacked the majority of Democrats who failed to support him, as did his supporters. Even the women at Planned Parenthood who risked their lives in abortion clinics were "establishment." Then when he responded to his loss by 3.8 million votes by arguing that the votes of the majority should be overturned in favor of corporate media polls--that was the last straw for me.

That your Trump-voting friends say they would have voted for him is irrelevant. The discussion here is about galvanizing Democrats in opposition to Trump.

[OldYallow]

40. That's not what the op is about

How many dens were on the record demanding wall street financial crimes were prosecuted? Elizabeth and Bernie. Some of us are tired of the influence of money. Better learn fast my friend.

[BainsBane]

41. My mistake

I assumed opposing Trump entailed uniting Democrats. I forgot that the point of "progressivism," as it's come to be redefined, was to exclude the Democratic base.

As your own post makes clear, divisiveness is key to Bernie's appeal. You want to keep the "progessive" movement pure, and a lowly Democrat like me would be a contaminant. Better to join forces with your "progressive" Trump-voting friends.

So have at it. I'll be focusing on issues I care about--like equality, voting rights, women's rights, civil rights--you know, "the identity politics" that affect the lives of impure and inferior Democrats.

Funny how many "progressives" who claim to care about the influence of money voted against policies that addressed it.

[jimlup]

44. As an outside observer

I would say that one side in this debate is utilizing "divisiveness" and "exclusivity" and it isn't the progressives.

I'd recommend this would be a good time to look in the mirror and really study what you see.

[BainsBane]

48. Really?

What do you call it when someone attributes another posters' views to needing a fuck?

I quit calling myself a progressive when people started using it as a club to attack Democrats, especially women and people of color and organizations and individuals that champion our rights.

The fact is actions have consequences. Bernie created a prominent role for himself in the media. The primary was ugly, and he renewed it immediately after the GE, like always before the cameras. Now you "as an outside observer" can judge more divisive my having the audacity to object to efforts to overturn my vote (and other tactics I mentioned) than the original argument it should be discounted. I happen to value my basic civil and voting rights, and your claims that my asserting them are divisive aren't surprising in the least.

When it came news to advancing Bernie's career over the rights and interests of citizens, count me out. I'll leave that to "progressives."

[jimlup]

51. your inflating your own importance

again I would recommend a study in the mirror.

[Beartracks]

72. Good point. There's a lot of...

... snooty "I-only-appreciate-leadership-from-people-registered-as-Democrats" going on around here, even though the bonafide Democratic leadership welcomes Bernie's help. I half expect them to throw Schumer and Pelosi under the bus for that.

==============

[brush]

46. I like your post. And one "minor" thing that most here seem to forget or purposely overlook . . .

Last edited Thu Dec 29, 2016, 12:49 AM - Edit history (1)

Sanders is not a Democrat, having returned to being an independent.

I say if you want to speak for Democrats, be a Democrat.

[JudyM]

49. Apparently Schumer views it differently, since he made Sanders a member of the Dem leadership team.

[brush]

50. I don't view it that way. And what's with Sanders? If he wants to be a Dem so bad, just join already

What, he wants to leave himself an out or something?

That's one reason why he lost the primary. Many thought he just joined to take advantage of the Dem party's national profile that he wouldn't have had as an independent.

Then he goes back to being an independent after the election, like he was done with us.

[R B Garr]

94. By Bernie's own words, Schumer is a Wall Streeter. But I guess that's okay

if he supports Bernie. It's just not okay if they don't support Bernie.

[JudyM]

102. He has caucused with the Democratic Party for decades. And he works with the system as it exists.

And the system is set up to support wall st and other corporate donors. That's reality and we have to work within it. The fact that Schumer has come to see the value that Sanders brings to the party means he is willing to look at the rest of reality, And has a bit of well-placed humble flexibility.

[R B Garr]

105. Well, everyone works within the system as it exists, so he gets no special

accolades. But this just confirms the empty rhetoric. Wall Street and billionaires are okay if they like Bernie.

[pangaia]

63. He IS a democrat.

[brush]

69. Do your research. He went back to being an independent.

[pangaia]

71. But, you see, or don't see,.. that is not what I am talking about.

[brush]

73. Whatever you're talking about, the fact is he went back to being an independent

[pangaia]

76. Mr/Ms Brush. I am talking about something totally different.

Let me ask a hypothetical(maybe)question; if Bernie pulled his pants down and he had DEMOCRAT tattooed on his ass, would that do it?

[brush]

81. I'd tell him to just join the party and stay in it. What's with the leaving himself an out crap?

If you're a Democrat, be one.

He loses gravitas and credibility by posturing as a Democratic Party leader while not actually being a member of the Democratic Party.

It's no longer cute, Bernie.

Step up and stop dancing the "I caucus with the Dems but if anything bad happens I can claim to be an independent, not a Dem.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

82. The ACTUAL Democrats in the ACTUAL Senate

don't seem to have any problem with whether he has DEMOCRAT tattooed on his ass. Rather than whining about what's tattooed on his ass or printed on his Senate membership card or whatever the hell they have, they actually appointed him head of their budget committee. If it doesn't bother them, why does it bother you?

[pangaia]

86. Wait, I'm on you side. Did I mis-understand what you said?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

89. I was replying to the other poster,

for whom party identification seems to be of paramount importance. Sometimes these threads get confusing.

[pangaia]

98. Thanks. That's what I thought.but sometimes it's hard to tell which posts go where on my tablet.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

70. Maybe I shouldn't be posting here, because technically

I'm not a Democrat because in my state you don't register with a party. So I don't have a membership card or any of that stuff. I always vote for Democrats but unless I can tattoo a donkey on my ass or something I guess I don't get to call myself one, right?

[pangaia]

74. Humm... that's a difficult question. :)))

I'm thinking..................... ok....

Maybe a donkey tattoo on your ass would begin to open people's eyes...
(You can take that in whichever way or ways you wish.

I am Green Bay Packers fan. But I don't have a GB card, or a hat or sweatshirt.
But when they score I always yell , "YES !!!!!!!!" Especially if Aaron Rogers scores on a little QB sneak.

However,when somebody asks me which team I like, and I tell them the PACK, they never question me..

Maybe you are on to something.... maybe we both are..
Maybe Bernie should get a tattoo on his ass...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

92. I'm wondering whether Joe Manchin, who is a "real" Democrat,

but who often sides with Republicans and who has even said he will vote to confirm Jeff Sessions for Attorney General, is preferable in the eyes of some DUers to Bernie. I mean, Manchin has registered himself as a Democrat, so he must be better, right?

I just read he might switch to the GOP at some point, so I hope he doesn't have that donkey tattoo on his ass.

[pangaia]

99. Lol! I don't want to find out ....about his ass, that is.

Last edited Thu Dec 29, 2016, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. And yet Warren seems quite satisfied to be working with him.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER? BERNIE'S NOT A DEMOCRAT!! SHE SHOULD BE SHUNNING HIM AND LOCKING HIM OUT OF THE SENATE COAT ROOM!!!!!!!

And get this (from the Salon article): "Sanders has already been chosen as minority leader for the Democrats on the Senate’s powerful budget committee." WHAT'S WRONG WITH THOSE DEMOCRATS?? THEY CHOSE HIM TO BE THE LEADER OF THE SENATE BUDGET COMMITTEE AND HE'S NOT EVEN A DEMOCRAT! OH NOES!!!!

[BainsBane]

53. What is your point?

Since you know I said or implied nothing of the kind. That those of us who remember Sanders' insulting us and arguing our votes should be discarded in favor of corporate media polls should shut the fuck up? Or is it that we should just accept that Sanders is right that the votes of some Americans just shouldn't count?

It turns out this initiative isn't about Bernie but a letter that comes from the Democratic congress. It's point is to unify Democrats, regardless of who they supported in the primary, in organizating against Trump. Except the OP and some others here do not share that goal and decided to use it to advance Bernie over the larger goal because the only thing that ever matters is Bernie.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. My point is that many actual Democrats in the actual Senate

seem to be a whole lot more comfortable to have Bernie working with them to resist Trump than a bunch of complainers on an Internet message board who can't get over the fact that Bernie had the gall to run against Hillary in the primaries and keep repeating, ...."But, but, but, he's not a Democrat!" despite the fact that the real Democrats he works with are willing to let him head up one of their party's most important committees...

[pangaia]

64. Right. This whole 'Bernie is not a Democrat' thing shows a couple things.

1- That what he says and does is not as important as joining 'the club.' and
2- A lack of the understanding of nuance.

Bernie is more a 'Democrat than a lot of Democrats who ARE in the club. MAYBE more so than most...

But, it is an argument we can not win because it takes seeing past titles and labels, and into the heart of the matter.

[elleng]

65. and it appears that too many, around here anyway, can't or won't

see past titles and labels.

DAMN, we SHOULD be for THE HEART OF THE MATTER!

[pangaia]

66. Whew..thanks... I am waiting to get wacked again, like a couple days ago. :)))

Oh, your favorite group is cooking and baking..cool.........

CHENGDU FOREVER !!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

67. If he registered as a Democrat

would he suddenly be OK, or would there be some other reason to slam him?

[elleng]

68. There is no damn reason to slam him.

People are petty.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

75. Of course there isn't. He's been working his butt off,

along with other Democrats, ever since the election, to come up with a strategy to oppose Trump. Does the label matter more than the work? If so, why?

And where the hell is Hillary? Sure, she deserves to take it easy after that awful campaign, but why isn't she speaking out?

[elleng]

78. I don't care if she speaks out,

and might complicate things too much if she did, with rumors 'running again?'

Really bugs me that the label appears to matter so much, to so many. Ridiculously shallow.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

79. A few comments from Hillary about party unity and the need to oppose Trump

might help tamp down some of the dumb and counterproductive intraparty sniping.

[elleng]

80. Might do.

[Iggo]

112. He still wouldn't be Hillary Clinton.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

113. No, of course not. He wasn't trying to be.

In fact, his not-Hillary-Clinton-ness is what a lot of people liked about him. That's politics.

[JudyM]

111. Well-said. Now if only that could be understood.

[jimlup]

43. Go Bernie!

[jimw81]

45. lol, if sanders can campaign hard from a prop that couldn't pass in CA

then he can't win a general election. if we go progressive like warren or sanders say goodbye to 2020. The country is center right. Wait, didn't we have a centralist running in 2016 before being forced to run on a crappy progressive platform?

[HoneyBadger]

47. Bernie has been working very hard in the last month to get his people placed

Fair to say that no one is working harder than Bernie. Warren is tweaking her resume with an eye towards running. There should be zero surprise if they run the Democratic Party by 2018.

[Mike Nelson]

103. Yay! ...and

...I hope Bernie becomes a permanent Democrat this time. We need him!

[moda253]

104. Hate to break it to you but this ticket loses in a landslide

Sorry but that's the honest to goodness truth. Sanders/Warren would lose in a massive landslide.

I mean I agree with almost everything they say and would love to see a lot of their policy come to fruition. But this country is not going to elect these two.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

114. Yeah, well, we all thought Clinton/Kaine was going to win in a landslide.

Funny (or not so funny) how that turned out. "Man plans and God laughs." Anyhow, this isn't about a Sanders/Warren ticket in 2020; it's about what they are trying to do right now to oppose Trump. And more power to them.

[HughBeaumont]

106. I welcome it. Gee, go figure, some of us don't WANT to be economic Republicans.

Some of us actually WANT Universal Health Care and a guaranteed Minimum Income. High time we took care of the country rather than bargaining with Regressives all so we don't inconvenience it's wealthy.

[Arazi]

110. KIck and rec! Now that's a power couple

[azmom]

117. Yessssssss