The idiocy of people arguing over food stamps in a country that wastes 31% of available food

[nadine_mn]

Whenever I hear anyone complain about food stamps/EBT/SNAP benefits I get a blinding hot rage - whether it is who is eligible, what food should be ok (was it WI that proposed legislation to make ketchup ineligible and only certain kinds of potatoes) or any other asinine arguments.


FUCK. THAT. SHIT.

It's FOOD.... we are talking about something as basic as FOOD. And it's not like there is a limited supply of food in this country. There are those who would rather throw out perfectly good food (day old bread from bakeries, "imperfect" food, excess food from restaurants) than see a homeless person eat it. Spare me the arguments about how someone could sue if they got sick from eating free food. You will always have asshats that will try to exploit the system or try to sue for some ridiculous reason. We need nutrition programs in schools such as free lunch and breakfast and summer programs. Because kids go hungry everyday in this country. And fresh fruit and vegetables are expensive - so if SNAP gives people an opportunity to eat better, we should support it. Currently the amount of $ a person or family gets in benefits is embarrassing small in one of the "richest countries in the world". An eligible single adult's maximum benefit is $194 = just over $6 a day. Ooooh they are living high on the hog with that. But an extra $200 a month can make a huge difference for the working poor and the non-working poor. Gas, rent, utilities, Rx, car repairs, child care, clothing etc.

And honestly the whole "my taxes shouldn't be used for people who refuse to work and sit on their ass and collect food stamps" or "if I can't afford steak, why should people who are on food stamps get to eat it".

Shut up. Of course there is anecdotal evidence of "I know one guy who sold his food stamps for drugs" - good lord, one guy vs thousands of adults and children who aren't getting proper nutrition or wonder where their next meal is coming from.

The amount of your tax dollars spent on welfare is just a pittance compared to where the rest of your tax dollars go. And just like you cannot pick and choose which road projects or military spending your tax dollars go to, you shouldn't waste your time micromanaging what food a person on SNAP eats.

Because SNAP is for FOOD - not basic toiletries, feminine hygiene products, pet food, cleaning supplies etc. No one is getting rich from food stamp fraud. Yes, again there a minute number of people who exploit the system in some way - there always will be no matter what protections you put out there - this is true about everything.

We should increase eligibility and amount of benefits to more people not less. Again we are talking about FOOD. No one in this country should ever have to worry about their next meal - no one.

We need solutions to food waste and increased minimum wage - but we also need to fight against the stigma of receiving help for something as basic as FOOD.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. That says it.

[DLevine]

2. Absolutely. Thank you! nt

[Sherman A1]

3. Well said!

[Arkansas Granny]

4. Many people don't know, or don't care, that most of those using food stamps

are children, disabled or elderly. The benefits for able bodied adults with no dependants are very limited.

[IronLionZion]

5. There are people getting rich from our tax dolars

Including Trump's family with their government housing contracts

One would think Trumpers would still want to keep snap for at least one key demographic

[Sunriser13]

6. Very well said!

[Dustlawyer]

7. +1!!! I didn't realize until my disabled brother started getting food stamps.

He received $735 for SS disability and $87 for food. Out of that he had rent of $175 and utilities, gas and maintenance on his truck, clothes... He ended up malnourished from his food options until we found out and stepped in.

The notion that people on the social safety net is a Reagan era myth. Republicans would probably be mad if they were eating canned dog food instead of the cheap dry kind!

[Bear Creek]

8. Bear Creek

It is more than one guy selling. The whole system needs to be changed. They get thousands each month. And still the children go without anything to eat. Backpacks filled with food that the parents steal as soon as they bring it home. Then there is difficultly of getting assistance when it is needed. On top of that the food pantries only give to people with the cards. So there are people who have low food security and cannot get food.
They use a card it should probably track what is bought. There is a difference when buying for their families and buying for a restaurant or convenient store.

[nadine_mn]

9. Who is getting thousands each month?

I don't know of any food pantry in Minnesota that requires a card, some don't even require proof of income - it's for anyone in need

I'm not sure where the backpacks full of food you mention are coming from either.

[Bear Creek]

10. Most

Yes the food pantries in Ohio require the card. Most of the people that recieve around here do have thousands on the cards. The backpacks are given out at the schools.

[nadine_mn]

13. Proof? Because SNAP

is a federal program with federal guidelines

https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/how-much-could-i-receive

you would need a family of 7 to get $1,000 a month

Many food pantries are non-profits run by community programs, churches etc and their requirements will vary.

I don't think you have been receiving accurate information

[Bear Creek]

16. Proof is needed

That is the way it is.

[nadine_mn]

19. Proof that people are receiving "thousands" a month in food stamp benefits

I have no idea where you are coming up with that number

[Bear Creek]

26. Sorry

Work in a grocery store you will see it. The balance comes up.

[nadine_mn]

30. Sorry now I call bullshit

EBT cards are not just used for SNAP benefits, but also cash assistance so all the money someone receives will be on it. But no one is receiving thousands of dollars a month in assistance..it is not possible. Sometimes if you don't use all your money in a month, it will come carry over for a limited time. Average amount of cash assistance is around $500 depending where you live and I already posted a link to the federal guidelines. Show me proof of one state or federal program that gives people thousands of dollars a month in food (other than for families of more than 7) or even in cash assistance.

Working in a grocery store and seeing their balance is not proof, and yes years ago I did work in a grocery store (that's where I met my husband in fact).

[Bear Creek]

34. Yes it is

Facts, food is listed then the balance. The system needs to be changed. There is a requirement to have the card and you are limited to visiting the pantry once per month. Saying BS does not change the facts.

[nadine_mn]

38. But what you are saying just isn't true

There is no federal food program that gives thousands a month. I have supplied facts and evidence by posting the federal guidelines and maximum benefits. You have zero proof to bac up your claim.

[Bear Creek]

41. Fraud

You have zero evidence. That they do not. Check headlines and news articles. It will not matter long. The republicans will pull the plug. It would have been better if the democrats could have done something.

[csziggy]

60. Please provide some of those headlines and new articles with the information you claim

You've made a lot of claims in this sub-thread without a single link to proof of your claims. Since you are the one making those claims, you must have documentation you can give us.

Without any links to your proof, everything you have said can be considered to be unfounded allegations - or in a one syllable word, LIES

Once you provide some links to prove your claims, I will be happy to retract that comment.

[Phoenix61]

56. I've worked in a food bank

And most of the people who came were not on food stamps. I know fraud was more of a problem when food stamps were paper but the cards helped to curb that. Are there merchants who commit food stamp fraud? I'm sure there are. Scammers will always exist but your assertion that people get $1,000 of dollars in food stamps is just plain silly.

[mountain grammy]

32. You can't just say stuff

Because you see something in a grocery store line.. if you witness fraud, it is your duty to report it to the proper authorities.. I know someone who works the checkout line in a Walmart. She knows someone's situation when they spend 5 minutes in her line... bullshit.

Come on now..if you have a legitimate story about widespread fraud and abuse, share it. Otherwise you appear to be judgmental and biased.

[Bear Creek]

42. Fraud

Yes there is. But if it makes you feel better to deny it go ahead.

[awoke_in_2003]

50. "That which can be asserted without evidence...

can be dismissed without evidence". Christopher Hitchens

[uncle ray]

35. don't forget the part where they drive off in a Cadillac.

[Bear Creek]

44. Why sure

Why not.

[Squinch]

54. No. That isn't. Why would you say it is?

[rbrnmw]

14. No they do not require that at all

and backpacks of food? Some require an ID and utility bill to prove residency

[Bear Creek]

27. Backpacks

Are a school program. The ones that recieve it are the ones who qualify for reduced or free lunch.

[Squinch]

53. I'm sorry but bullshit. No one gets thousands of dollars in food stamps. It just doesn't happen.

[Bear Creek]

11. Back pack programs

[link:http://www.stevenshopefund.org|
http://www.stevenshopefund.org
There are many more such programs. They help some.

[nadine_mn]

15. Those are not tax payer programs

And that backpack program has about $10 worth of food in it for kids who are eligible for free lunch during the school week - the food is for them on the weekends as lunch and snack.

Hardly "backpacks full of food". And I'm sure there are always a few parents who take the food for themselves - again asshats in every program - but I seriously doubt of the 1100 kids fed every weekend, the majority of that food is being "stolen".

[rbrnmw]

17. I grew up in the Portsmouth area, some people should walk a mile in others shoes

It is a very economically depressed area, it's sad people would begrudge kids receiving food.

[Bear Creek]

29. Yes

Being around and seeing it first hand. Just because throwing some money or in this case a food card then pretending everything is just fine. Makes some feel good about themselves. In the mean time children are going without food. Children going without food effects thier whole life. There are homeless people who cannot get help.

[rbrnmw]

40. bullshit I know people who work in the schools and Job and Families

food cards aren't given willy nilly and most don't abuse them. I went to Notre Dame High School, and still have many friends in the area, you seem to be basing your few instances of "fraud" on rumors and innuendo. Poor shaming is a RW thing, not a thing Progressives are normally associated with.

[Bear Creek]

48. Bullshit

Lots of cases of fraud. But if it makes you feel better to pretend go ahead.

[panader0]

59. The percentage of fraud is very small, probably less than 5%.

[csziggy]

62. The percentage is smaller than that in the last few years

Fox News Screws Up Its Latest Lie

Kevin DrumDec. 28, 2016 12:40 AM

<SNIP>

In the most recent fiscal year, SNAP cost $71 billion, which means that fraud accounted for a minuscule 0.098 percent of the program budget. Even if this is an all-time high, the Fox high command can't believe this is anything but a spectacular bureaucratic success.

And it would be, if it were true. But it's not. If you look at inaccurate SNAP payments to states, the error rate since 2005 has decreased from 6 percent of the budget to less than 4 percent. However, this isn't fraud anyway: It's just an error rate, and most of the errors are eventually corrected. SNAP "trafficking"—exchanging SNAP benefits for cash—is fraud, but it's been declining steadily too, from 3.8 percent in 1993 to 1.3 percent in 2011 (the most recent year for which we have records):



So in any normal sense, the Fox story was a lie. SNAP fraud isn't at an all-time high. It's been declining for years. But here's the thing: The fraud rate in 2011 may have been low, but this was in the aftermath of the Great Recession, when total SNAP payments were very high. So although the percentage is low, the dollar value of fraud clocked in at $988 million. Fox could have used this far higher number, which is, in fact, an all-time high. It's only an all-time high because SNAP was helping far more people, but still. In the Fox newsroom, that would hardly matter.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/fox-news-screws-its-latest-lie

[panader0]

63. Thanks--I was looking for that info.

Love your Will Rogers quote.

[Squinch]

55. This is all RW trolling tactics. I wonder what he is trying to do?

[rbrnmw]

58. it's obvious, feel superior to poor people

[Squinch]

52. So why are you saying that people get thousands in food stamps, when that happens nowhere?

[Squinch]

51. Lots of complete bullshit here! Wonder what you get out of talking such rot.

[Iggo]

57. Complete bullshit.

Someone's lying to you.

[libtodeath]

12. We need a universal basic income for everyone

not only is there plenty of food,there is plenty of money to go around but we let a few,mostly white assholes hoard it.

[nadine_mn]

21. I agree but I can already hear howls of complaint both sides

A basic minimum income for everyone is what we should have as a "developed" country. This idea that if that happens, thousands of people will quit working and just wait for a check is crazy. You bet there will be a few but most people want more from life than the bare minimum - they want to get ahead.

A perfect example is free housing for the chronically homeless - people freak out. But the cost is so small compared to what tax payers pay in terms of jailing and emergency hospital stays that happen for so many homeless. Some of these chronically homeless aren't able to maintain a job - usually due to mental health issues. So the idea that we should just give up on them? Throw them away? Again that idea that someone is "getting something for free" without working for it - but would you really want to trade places with that person?

Helping someone get food, clothing and shelter isn't "taking" away from others - it's making sure as a society we are all benefiting. I don't understand the anger directed at those with nothing and a blind eye is turned to the real "takers" - - corporations and the tax evading super wealthy (Trump).

[Bear Creek]

25. Agree

That is the answer. It would take care of other problems as well.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. Yes!!!

Yours might not be a popular opinion in the comments sections on Facebook articles about Food Stamps but I agree with it 100%. Sadly, I see so many nasty comments about people on Food Stamps, how they use them, etc. There are a lot of really judgemental people out there, even among people whom seem fairly progressive in general.

[nadine_mn]

22. Oh I can't even get into it with Facebook people

Just seeing it here on DU with people who should know better is enough to make me start to sputter and spit. Because you know damn well those same people making nasty comments on FB also consider themselves to be "good Christians". Really want just one of them to explain how their Jesus would shame and slap food out of the hands of the hungry.

And micromanaging what people eat!! Why - how can you have nothing better to do with your life than come up with a list of "approved" foods for people with so little.

I just keeping muttering to myself "it's food - just food." No food should be concerned a luxury - oh the hand wringing of someone buying lobster with food stamps - lobster! Because that happened once, people freak out. Oh and heaven forbid someone buy a damn birthday cake for their kid or name brand kid cereal. Because hungry kids ask for so little and a simple treat like a nice cake on their birthday or their favorite cereal can make a kid feel a little better - but screw those greedy bastards.

Oh here I go on a rant again, not even having coffee yet. I just can't understand the pettiness of people. Fortunately, I have never heard anyone mutter stuff like this to my face (maybe because I am fat and they know better than to argue with me about food) - lord help someone who does.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

24. I try to stay away from FB comments as much as I can

because they usually drive me into an incoherent rage- seeing all of the hate and stupidity.

[nadine_mn]

28. The hate I cannot understand

What good has hating anyone ever done. I just want the people who spew such venom explain to me how that makes them feel better about themselves. Anger and hatred don't just hurt the people it's directed at, but it takes an internal toll even more. You can see the difference in their face...people who love and help others look better...have a glow, have a pleasant face. But good lord people who spend their time spewing hatred look it...their face gets contorted and they look miserable. Look at someone like Jimmy Carter vs Dick Cheney. You don't have to know anything about who they are to see the difference in their appearance. Trump and Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren vs Sarah Palin.... Hillary Clinton vs the only other female candidate Fiorina ...when you hurt other people it shows on you.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

31. IKR?

Must be such a miserable existence going through life hating people for some reason or another. I don't honestly know how those people live with themselves. What really upsets me is when you have politicians and activists seeming fighting for the "right" to hate/discriminate against people. It's one thing to sort of "passively hate" some people (which I don't get either) but it's another to literally go out of your way to publicly advocate discrimination and whipping up fear and hatred of other people, whether it be introducing "Religious freedom" bills or anti-Transgender (women mostly) "Bathroom Bills", or pushing humiliating procedures for assistance programs like drug testing.

[treestar]

20. Good post. It is so petty the way they

act about it - so scared someone is getting some help, so upset and wanting to judge all that the person helped does - all just to feel superior about themselves. Really pathetic. And like they are the victims. Their taxes. They make enough to pay those taxes, so boo hoo.

[nadine_mn]

23. This sentiment makes me angry and can actually make me cry

People who are already hard on their luck should not have to deal with nasty judgments from self-righteous assholes who consider themselves superior to those with less.

I don't know what benefit a person receives from being an asshole - I truly don't. I guess I am naive (my husband calls me a softie) but I feel better when I can do something to help someone else - no matter how little that help is. If for a second I realize I have been a jerk to someone, I feel sick.

There have been times when I have been misinformed and made stupid snap judgments, and I feel awful about it. We should all strive to lift each other up, not step on each other. There is this false narrative that there is only a small percentage of "stuff" so we have to fight each other to get it - food, jobs, education, fricking civil rights. That we can only "get" if we "take" from someone else. But the reality is that we are not living in a land of shortages - there is plenty to go around if we just open our eyes and help each other.

[oberliner]

33. WSAZ Investigates: Cashing in on Food Stamps

Interesting story here:

http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/WSAZ-Investigates-Cashing-in-on-Food-Stamps-290710771.html

[haele]

36. So, one food stamps recipient out of 500 does this.

And the cries rise up - "we need to crack down on all this fraud!".
The article made it seem as though there was a significant amount of fraud. But very few reporters ask officials how many people in the county are on food stamps, and approximately how many people they find are committing fraud.
Comments like "we see these guys down the street selling soda..." - how many? Ten? One Hundred?
Do you know these Sodas were bought with SNAP or WIC? Or maybe with double coupons and store loyalty cards on someone's disability check?
I know someone on disability that sits outside a church on Sundays with a couple 12 packs of store generic soda and snacks he gets on sale - you know, the "3 for $12" specials. And sells them for a buck a can. Makes around $50 a day for $12. Which he turned around for food and gas money.

All this being said, most official and peer review studies I've seen indicate the majority of food stamp fraud is committed by stores - including major chains on a local level making deals to get rid of the produce they would normally throw away or mark down and half face value cash back "under the table" to get full price back from the government.

Not the woman adding two cases of Soda on her card so she can sell them for a buck a can later on to get an additional $10 to feed her family.

Haele

[nadine_mn]

39. Oh for fucks sake

This is the kind of bullshit reporting that pisses me off. A handful of people find a way to scam the system so then the whole system is corrupt. There are people since the dawn of time who will always find a way to scam. But the majority of people receiving benefits don't. Where are the reports of how SNAP benefits the elderly? Or can make the difference in family? Oh wait, those stories don't fit the narrative of people getting rich off welfare.

And this amount of fraud is nothing compared to how Wall Street frauded millions of dollars and then got bailed out millions more with tax payer money. Let's focus on the pennies being stolen and ignore the real criminals

[ck4829]

45. +1. Interesting that nobody says we should scrap the navy because of Fat Leonard

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/navy-repeatedly-dismissed-evidence-that-fat-leonard-was-cheating-the-7th-fleet/2016/12/27/0afb2738-c5ab-11e6-85b5-76616a33048d_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_fatleonard825p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.4b432d0fe6a9

The narrative that media and politicians seems to push is that when it's a system benefiting the status quo, power, the government, the elite, etc; then corruption is a bug.

If it's a system that benefits the poor, the below, the disenfranchised, the excluded, etc.; then corruption is a feature.

Why is that?

[Bear Creek]

49. Lot more than one

[link:http://www.herald-dispatch.com/_recent_news/food-bank-volunteer-accused-of-stealing-food-from-kroger/article_67c7b189-1816-5a2a-9401-4faf57fd1d50.html|
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/_recent_news/food-bank-volunteer-accused-of-stealing-food-from-kroger/article_67c7b189-1816-5a2a-9401-4faf57fd1d50.html
Widespread. Through out the area. Cincinnati included. The problem needs to be addressed. Sticking heads in the sand pretending everything is just fine does nothing and the republicans do not give a damn except just to save money.

[Moosepoop]

61. What does this article have to do with food stamps?

Answer: nothing.

[Yavin4]

37. City Harvest in New York city is a charity that collects excess food and gives it to the poor

I donate to it every year.

https://www.cityharvest.org/about

[ck4829]

43. K&R

[Oneironaut]

46. And the same people have no problem with most of our budget going to

military planes and vehicles that are never used and go straight from the factory to the boneyard. How much of our budget is for EBT cards vs. military waste? It's like a shot glass of water versus an Olympic-sized swimming pool.

[Initech]

47. The GOP are the "I want it all for myself and fuck everybody else" party.

You know what? They deserve to have Donald Trump march them off the cliff. That's their mantra in a nutshell and who delivers it better than him? He's a guy who uses "I" and "me" more times in a single sentence than anyone else on the planet!

[jodymarie aimee]

64. excuse me

In WI a single disabled adult or senior gets a max of $16 a month. 60cents a day. The guy who says thousands is plain nuts. And there is no fraud. Maybe a guy with 5 wives in Utah......I have been on them, there is no way to cheat with $16 a month. Shame on the guy who is telling this tale. Too much FOX news.