Elite White Men as The Problem

[sheshe2]

These elite white men, centuries ago and now, generally see themselves as heroic and virtuous, even as they have created great destruction and misery for many people. Ronald Takaki speaks of this view of white men as centered on “virtuous republicans.” Note that in this centuries-old process most white men have had little sense of their own weakness and venality, but generally accented their virtues. Today, as in earlier centuries, most white men generally do not see their group’s major weaknesses, major errors, and frequent unvirtuousness. They certainly do not like to admit error. Indeed, elite and other white men now often blame the victims of their actions, as in the case of this white male commodity trader who blamed homeowners and moaned about “losers” with troubled mortgages, and not the banks now being bailed out with billions for playing the central role in creating the housing crisis.

So we seem to be moving today to what may well be a second “Great Depression” in this country’s history, yet this time one that is more than just economic, but is social, political, and political-economic in its downward anti-egalitarian spiral. We see omens of this in the array of reactionary elite white men currently being tapped by the minority president-elect Donald Trump (he did not come close to winning a majority of voters) for his cabinet. The arrogant racial, class, and gender framing and related actions, current and future, of these and a few thousand other elite white men have yet to be problematized and examined thoroughly as the major “social problem” of our era. Indeed, to my knowledge, no such thorough racial, class, and gender examination has ever occurred in our mainstream media and other mainstream public discussions in this society. It simply is not possible to problematize the ruling group, as they have too much control to allow for significant problematization.

The still dominant white racial frame is more than a negative framing of the racial “others” in order to legitimate white racial oppression. At its very center, it positively and strongly accents white virtuousness, especially white male virtuousness. It has a dramatic arrogance about what is virtuous and what is not, about who is virtuous and who is not, and about where and when there virtue is exhibited. It assumes that an arrogant greed, a predatory spirit, an overarching patriarchism means white men should be at the head of society–that is, should be masters of the social universe.

Yet, it is the lack of virtue of a great many elite white men that has gotten much of planet Earth into this downward anti-democratic and anti-egalitarian spiral. This lack of virtuousness can be observed in their egocentric racial, class, gender framing — and in their greed, their lack of social intelligence, their lack of foresight, and thus their lack of public-regardingness. For example, a careful report on the “financial crisis and the systemic failure of academic economics” (by mostly European economists) makes quite clear the failure of the (substantially white male) economics profession to research and interpret the last global financial crisis called the “Great Recession.”

More: http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2016/12/08/elite-white-men-problem/

___________________________________


This is what strikes me the hardest in the article "So we seem to be moving today to what may well be a second “Great Depression” in this country’s history, yet this time one that is more than just economic, but is social, political, and political-economic in its downward anti-egalitarian spiral."

[guillaumeb]

1. Many white men see themselves as elite simply by virtue of biology and pigment.

Recommended.

[bettyellen]

2. I've come to the conclusion that the white men among us have to undo this shit....

They need to step up as payback for our heavy support of their Dem agenda. What strengthens women and POC strengthens the party but too many are leaving it to us.
We need their voices too.

[sheshe2]

3. Yes the onus is on them as well.

They can no longer stand silent. We cannot keep doing this alone.

[jack_krass]

4. Dang first the working class whites, now the elite whites. Is there

any problem in this world not caused by some class of white people?

[Uponthegears]

5. Do you want an honest answer?

[Useless in FL]

8. +1000

[yallerdawg]

6. It's pretty clear.

So let us now instead define elite white men as the problem when it comes to many matters of contemporary societal oppression, societal inequality, human rights, and human survival.

First - we have to admit it's a problem.

[jack_krass]

9. Yes, such a wonderful world we'd have without white people, right?.... In all seriousness, isnt it

Funny how its perfectly A-ok to demonize an entire race of people, as long as they're white If someone started talking about blacks or jews being "the problem", well imagine the hellstorm that would be generated.

[yallerdawg]

10. Historically...

who do you think talks about "blacks or Jews" being "the problem" - and comes up with "solutions"?

And now - what is that 'elitist white man' peddling to the masses today? Walls, deportation forces, labeling religions and races.

THAT is what I call a hellstorm.

[sheshe2]

13. Hey...

Please see what I posted below, yallerdawg.

[sheshe2]

12. Omg...

I may be misunderstanding you here.

you said.

Funny how its perfectly A-ok to demonize an entire race of people, as long as they're white If someone started talking about blacks or jews being "the problem", well imagine the hellstorm that would be generated.

I have no clue how to start here in response. I don't find it "funny" that white people are feeling so demonized. An entire race feels demonized. Wow they are clueless if that is how they feel. Deaf Dumb and Blind is what they are if they feel that way....and the majority does not.

Talk about what would happen if blacks, and entire race of people were demoralized and demonized... they were brought here on slave ships. Bought sold treated worse than animals. They were beaten, Raped. Sold. Families split apart. Lynched. Segregated. They were beaten for trying to gain their rights. They are being shot today unarmed by police. Hands up Don't Shoot. They are taken to jail and for some reason end up dead. They are called thugs and deserve all that happens to them. Please tell me again how white people are so demoralized, demonized and dying in the streets.

Jews. One word. Holocaust. You remember this correct? An entire race that they attempted to erase. Men women and children beaten starved and sent to the ovens to die. Mass murder. Extinction and here you telling me white people in America know the pain and suffering. Obviously you and others do not seem to understand. You are tone deaf.

Here you are talking about hell storms for poor pitiful trump supporters when they show no outrage for our very unpleasant history.

[jack_krass]

23. JHFC Im not trying to minimize the suffering of blacks or jews

Whites have suffered Haulocausts and been enslaved too, but thats not the point I want to argue.

In fact, I dont see the relevance to my original point, that its wrong to demonize ANY group, even whites, or are you trying to make ab argument that it IS ok to demonize whites as a group??

[sheshe2]

30. Sorry.

You did not say ANY group, even whites.

You said.

Funny how its perfectly A-ok to demonize an entire race of people, as long as they're white If someone started talking about blacks or jews being "the problem", well imagine the hellstorm that would be generated.

You said white.

[jack_krass]

43. Im against demonizing any group. I mentioned whites specifically due to the OP

[sheshe2]

50. First you said this in a post...

jack_krass (982 posts)

9. Yes, such a wonderful world we'd have without white people, right?.... In all seriousness, isnt it

Funny how its perfectly A-ok to demonize an entire race of people, as long as they're white If someone started talking about blacks or jews being "the problem", well imagine the hellstorm that would be generated.

Then you said this...

jack_krass

43. Im against demonizing any group. I mentioned whites specifically due to the OP

see the difference? You make it sound like only whites as a group have been demonized and IF IF IF we ever said that about blacks or jews their would be a hellstorm. Well blacks and jews are living the hellstorm. They are having their churches burnt and vandalized. They are being stalked and threatened and viciously being attacked. Blacks are being shot down in the street, unarmed.


Well the Op said...

These elite white men, centuries ago and now, generally see themselves as heroic and virtuous, even as they have created great destruction and misery for many people.

They certainly do not like to admit error. Indeed, elite and other white men now often blame the victims of their actions, as in the case of this white male commodity trader who blamed homeowners and moaned about “losers” with troubled mortgages, and not the banks

So we seem to be moving today to what may well be a second “Great Depression” in this country’s history, yet this time one that is more than just economic, but is social, political, and political-economic in its downward anti-egalitarian spiral. We see omens of this in the array of reactionary elite white men currently being tapped by the minority president-elect Donald Trump

The arrogant racial, class, and gender framing and related actions, current and future, of these and a few thousand other elite white men have yet to be problematized and examined thoroughly as the major “social problem” of our era.

The still dominant white racial frame is more than a negative framing of the racial “others” in order to legitimate white racial oppression. At its very center, it positively and strongly accents white virtuousness, especially white male virtuousness. It has a dramatic arrogance

This lack of virtuousness can be observed in their egocentric racial, class, gender framing — and in their greed, their lack of social intelligence, their lack of foresight, and thus their lack of public-regardingness.

[jack_krass]

60. "You make it sound like only whites as a group". No No No youve read that wrong....

Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2016, 08:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Please read carefully:

What I'm tring to do is highlight a double standard, in which (among some) its permitted, even encouraged to slur, demonize, stereotype, even wish to become extinct, whites as a group, but not other racial groups.

To be clear,
-I do NOT think its OK to stereotype ANY groups, races, or even classes, (including whites).

-I do NOT think overall whites are stereotyped, demonized, etc any worse than other groups, and certainly MUCH LESS SO in modern, western nations.

[WhiteTara]

7. I think the key phrase is

White Men...especially old white men.

[RegexReader]

68. so your solution is?

what?

Round them up and send them to camps?
Have a catchy phrase over the camp's gate like "work sets you free"?
Yeah, that works out so well.

[WhiteTara]

69. I see no solution

I'm just acknowledging a problem.

[LittleBlue]

11. Most of the inventions we rely on in our everyday lives were invented by those men

Careful what you wish for.

The downward spiral is caused largely by automation and globalization. This is an inevitable outcome from making machines more intelligent and capable of replacing human beings. White men are largely responsible, but advanced robotics and AI would have happened anyway.

[yallerdawg]

14. Are white men 'superior'?

Or just 'advantaged'?

If you judge advancements by race - any idea what that is called?

[sheshe2]

20. Hey babe!

Love you!



Thanks.

[LittleBlue]

24. So we can assign blame by race but not achievements?

Pick one. You went down this slippery slope, you figure out where it ends.

[yallerdawg]

31. I subjugate and demonize other races for centuries...

and then praise the accomplishments of my race?

This is YOUR slope, not mine.

[LittleBlue]

32. Every single race has subjugated and demonized another

Koreans in Japan, Rohingya in Myanmar, etc. At times even whites were conquered and subjugated. Take a history class or just read the international news some time.

If you're assigning collective blame against white men, then you're labeling white men a collective, and therefore they have the right to claim collective achievement. If we're individuals then we're individuals in all things.

[yallerdawg]

36. I guess I missed "Poor Elitist White Male" class.

If you want to defend Corrupt Trump voters and white privilege, I hope to God you don't find any support here at DU.

And your rationalizations and justifications for your 'white outrage' are deeply offensive.

I hope your just having Friday night 'fun' of some sort.

This is the internet, isn't it?

And I'm done with you.

[LittleBlue]

37. It's not night where I live

I hope your just having Friday night 'fun' of some sort.

It's not night time for me.

And I'm done with you.

Like the guy saying he quit after being fired. You never really started, you don't even have knowledge of any race relations outside our own border.

[sheshe2]

16. Really......................?????????????????

Took me one second....

18 Inventions By Women That Changed The World

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/inventions-by-women-that-changed-the-world?utm_term=.ydJeyoxxzm#.cvJao8EExJ

100 years of scientific breakthroughs - by women

There are six times more men than women working in the fields of science, technology and engineering, so it stands to reason that there won't be an equal amount of role models available to women considering entering the professions, to rectify this the Medical Research Council has produced a book celebrating great scientific achievements made by women in the past 100 years. In accompaniment this evening there will be a talk 'Are Women Changing Science' at the ICA in London

https://www.theguardian.com/society/gallery/2011/mar/09/scientific-breakthroughs-by-women

Yes I know. Got it. Women are worthless creatures. We know! You 'splained that to us LittleBlue.

Ef that!

[LittleBlue]

26. I said most, not that women didn't invent anything

Why intentionally overreact when you know that wasn't what I said?

Women are worthless creatures.

You literally just called women worthless trying to be cute. Not funny or clever.

[gollygee]

45. They were the only people given the opportunity. Nt

[TNProfessor]

57. Well...

[PatentlyDemocratic]

15. White man here

I don't appreciate the racism. You may be referring to a minority of whites, but the effect demonizes all white men. It certainly won't win anyone over from the other side and doesn't sit too well with progressive white males like myself. If you talked about any other race like that, there would be outrage.

[sheshe2]

19. Sigh...

First if you read the article you would know it is mainly talking about the GOP and I gotta say, if you are not one of them then this is NOT about you.

Why is it always about you when it is not. Why the automatic outrage?

Let's think about this for a minute or two. Take a deep breath, now breathe out. It is not about you unless you wish to make it about you.

PS...

If you talked about any other race like that, there would be outrage.

Read my post about Jews and Blacks. Where is your outrage for those people? It is not all about you.

[BBG]

25. White man here too

I'm pretty sure that no one appreciates racism especially when they are the target. Progressive white males such as myself realize this and also recognize that most of the racism evident in our systems has been devised by white males to the benefit of white males. White males such as you and I.

[jack_krass]

67. So why not be consistent and rally against ALL stereotyping

[melman]

27. "but the effect demonizes all white men"

It's intended to, despite the OP's protestations to the contrary.

[sheshe2]

64. NO!

If the shoe does not fit it is not yours. How hard is that to understand. It is not about you.

READ the article.

[milestogo]

17. They see themselves as entitled to the best paying jobs

regardless of merit.

[oberliner]

21. Here's a picture of the author

[sheshe2]

22. Your point?

[yallerdawg]

38. A little more on Mr. Feagin.

From wiki:

Joe R. Feagin is a U.S. sociologist and social theorist who has conducted extensive research on racial and gender issues, especially in regard to the United States. He is currently the Ella C. McFadden and Distinguished Professor at Texas A&M University. Feagin has taught at the University of Massachusetts (Boston), University of California (Riverside), University of Texas (Austin), University of Florida, and Texas A&M University.

Feagin has done much research work on race and ethnic relations and has served as the scholar in residence at the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. He has written over 60 books, one of which (Ghetto Revolts) was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. He is the 2006 recipient of a Harvard Alumni Association achievement award and was the 1999-2000 president of the American Sociological Association.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AJoe+Feagin&sort=relevancerank&ie=UTF8&qid=1483154628

[sheshe2]

40. Thanks....

So the chest bumps below are only because he is a white man.

Hmmm have to wonder if any of them read past the title of the OP. They seldom do.

I hope it is okay to share your link with them, yallerdawg.

[melman]

28. lolol

Never fails.

[sheshe2]

41. Never fails when you don't read an OP.

Here is a little about the author.

In this book Joe Feagin extends the systemic racism framework in previous Routledge books by developing an innovative concept, the white racial frame. Now four centuries-old, this white racial frame encompasses not only the stereotyping, bigotry, and racist ideology emphasized in other theories of "race," but also the visual images, array of emotions, sounds of accented language, interlinking interpretations and narratives, and inclinations to discriminate that are still central to the frame’s everyday operations. Deeply imbedded in American minds and institutions, this white racial frame has for centuries functioned as a broad worldview, one essential to the routine legitimation, scripting, and maintenance of systemic racism in the United States. Here Feagin examines how and why this white racial frame emerged in North America, how and why it has evolved socially over time, which racial groups are framed within it, how it has operated in the past and in the present for both white Americans and Americans of color, and how the latter have long responded with strategies of resistance that include enduring counter-frames.

In this new edition, Feagin has included much new interview material and other data from recent research studies on framing issues related to white, black, Latino, and Asian Americans, and on society generally. The book also includes a new discussion of the impact of the white frame on popular culture, including on movies, video games, and television programs as well as a discussion of the white racial frame’s significant impacts on public policymaking, immigration, the environment, health care, and crime and imprisonment issues.


https://www.amazon.com/White-Racial-Frame-Centuries-Counter-Framing/dp/0415635225/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483155489&sr=1-1&refinements=p_27%3AJoe+Feagin

Yallerdawg

[LittleBlue]

33. LMAO

Exactly what I'd expect.

[sheshe2]

42. never read the OP....got it.

Here is a little about the author.

In this book Joe Feagin extends the systemic racism framework in previous Routledge books by developing an innovative concept, the white racial frame. Now four centuries-old, this white racial frame encompasses not only the stereotyping, bigotry, and racist ideology emphasized in other theories of "race," but also the visual images, array of emotions, sounds of accented language, interlinking interpretations and narratives, and inclinations to discriminate that are still central to the frame’s everyday operations. Deeply imbedded in American minds and institutions, this white racial frame has for centuries functioned as a broad worldview, one essential to the routine legitimation, scripting, and maintenance of systemic racism in the United States. Here Feagin examines how and why this white racial frame emerged in North America, how and why it has evolved socially over time, which racial groups are framed within it, how it has operated in the past and in the present for both white Americans and Americans of color, and how the latter have long responded with strategies of resistance that include enduring counter-frames.

In this new edition, Feagin has included much new interview material and other data from recent research studies on framing issues related to white, black, Latino, and Asian Americans, and on society generally. The book also includes a new discussion of the impact of the white frame on popular culture, including on movies, video games, and television programs as well as a discussion of the white racial frame’s significant impacts on public policymaking, immigration, the environment, health care, and crime and imprisonment issues.


https://www.amazon.com/White-Racial-Frame-Centuries-Counter-Framing/dp/0415635225/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483155489&sr=1-1&refinements=p_27%3AJoe+Feagin

Yallerdawg

Yes the author is white. Some white people actually care about PoC. I do.

[oberliner]

46. Had you heard of him when you posted this OP?

Or are you just finding out about him now?

[sheshe2]

53. I read a lot and yes just found out about him, thanks to yallerdawg.

People with like concerns help teach and share knowledge for those that wish to learn.

Is that an issue as well? I am not able to open my eyes and learn what is happening around me? I am not allowed to research or educate myself? The entire article that I posted the link to was informative and thought provoking. It was a good read. Perhaps you should have read it.

[oberliner]

55. There is a link to Feagin's new book in the second paragraph of the article you posted

I've read one of his books way back in the 90's, called White Racism.

[Gothmog]

29. K&R

[johnp3907]

34. K & R

[HopeAgain]

35. This is fine to point out IF

We are careful to cast the problems in terms of an errant advantaged group and not cast it in terms of being inherent in "whiteness" or even white culture. Would any similarly advantaged race have acted differently because they were not white? How could we assume so with any certainty? Described here is advantaged people acting selfishly, not white people "acting white."

I stopped having anything to do with somebody because he said that higher crime rates in inner cities were a result of "black culture." I hope no one similarly condemns "white culture."

[yallerdawg]

39. Perspective.

"Come to think of it, elite white men (they named themselves “white” in the 17th century) created the modern Western (now much of the world) economic system. They created the Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. Or should we say, the Predatory Ethic and the Spirit of Exploitation. Arrogant greed and European male dominance seem to be major motivations (emotions) behind the labor and land expropriation and exploitation euphemized by historians as “overseas exploration” and “settlement.” Certainly, powerful white men created, expanded, and maintained the often genocidal taking of millions of indigenous peoples’ lands in the Americas and the Holocaust-like Atlantic slave trade. Mostly white men created the oppressive realities of modern capitalism and North American slavery, and have made huge profits and wealth off of it, now passed along to their descendants, to the present."

[HopeAgain]

47. BUT...

If the dominant economic sysyem had originated in Africa or Asia, etc., should we assume that the world would be any different other than who was the problem?

Isn't it more productive to identify the harmful behavior than to ascribe it to a color?

[jalan48]

44. Is Bill Clinton considered an "Elite White Male"? Joe Biden? Bernie Sanders?

Some examples would be helpful.

[yallerdawg]

48. In the context of the source material.

Unusual numbers of photos of elite white men are in the news lately, since the new minority president-elect has worked to fill his cabinet. Most are from the right wing of the ruling white male elite, and that elite clearly remains in full power, as it has for centuries in this country.

[jalan48]

49. So, the answer is no?

[yallerdawg]

51. No?

"...right wing of the ruling white male elite, and that elite clearly remains in full power, as it has for centuries in this country."

Obama? No.

[jalan48]

52. Clinton, Biden, Sanders?

So the OP is just talking about "right wing elite males" and not about white males in general?

[cbreezen]

54. In today's vernacular...

Elite white men are considered to be educated democrats.

I'm going to be flamed for this... but, I can't jump on board with the "all men are bad" meme.

[sheshe2]

59. Well it does not say all white men, now does it?

No where in the entire article does it say "all white men are bad"

The article NEVER said that!

PS the Elite White Men that the article, if you took the time to read is about trump and his cabinet. Reading is good. Take a moment and do so.

[cbreezen]

62. I am an INFP

I am a feeling and perceiving sort of gal. I feel that there is a deeper meaning beyond the text. My response wasn't about YOU... it was about the greater theme of the article.

Peace.

Edited to add: My quote was "all men are bad".

[mopinko]

56. hey, not all white men.

the trolls. omg the trolls.

[tblue37]

58. Michael Moore wrote a book about how dangerously destructive powerful white men can be:

Stupid White Men: ...And Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation!

And then there is this:

http://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/11/the-baboon-troop-that-mellowed-out-after-the-alpha-males-died-the-sapolsky-and-share-study.html

"The Baboon Troop that Mellowed Out After the Alpha Males Died"

Biologists Robert Sapolsky and Lisa Share have followed a troop of wild baboons in Kenya for over 20 years, starting in 1978. Sapolsky and Share called them “The Garbage Dump Troop” because they got much of their food from a garbage pit at a tourist lodge. But not every baboon was allowed to eat from the pit in the early 1980s: The aggressive, high status males in the troop refused to allow lower status males, or any females, to eat the garbage. Between 1983 and 1986, infected meat from the dump led to the deaths of 46% of the adult males in the troop. The biggest and meanest males died off. As in other baboon troops studied, before they died, these top-ranking males routinely bit, bullied, and chased males of similar and lower status, and occasionally directed their aggression at females.

But when the top ranking males died-off in the mid-1980s, aggression by the (new) top baboons dropped dramatically, with most aggression occurring between baboons of similar rank, and little of it directed toward lower-status males, and none at all directed at females. Troop members also spent a larger percentage of the time grooming, sat closer together than in the past, and hormone samples indicated that the lowest status males experienced less stress than underlings in other baboon troops. Most interestingly, these effects persisted at least through the late 1990’s, well after all the original “kinder” males had died-off. Not only that, when adolescent males who grew up in other troops joined the “Garbage Dump Troop,” they too engaged in less aggressive behavior than in other baboon troops. As Sapolsky put it “We don’t understand the mechanism of transmission… but the jerky new guys are obviously learning: We don’t do things like that around here.” So, at least by baboon standards, the garbage dump troop developed and enforced what I would call a “no asshole rule.”

I am not suggesting that you get rid of all the alpha males in your organization, as tempting as that may be at times. The lesson from the baboons is that when the social distance between higher and lower status mammals in a group are reduced, and steps are taken to keep the distance smaller, higher status members are less likely to act like jerks. Human leaders can use this lesson to avoid turning into mean, selfish, and insensitive jerks too. Despite all the trappings, some leaders do remain attuned to how people around them are really feeling, to what their employees really believe about how the organization is ran, and to what customers really think about their company’s products and services. As “The Garbage Dump Troop” teaches us, the key thing these leaders do is to take potent, and constant, steps that dampen rather amplify the power differences between themselves and others (both inside and outside the company).

[jack_krass]

66. And thats just as stupid. There are elite jews and balcks too

MM makes some good points about class, but they can be made without the racial hypocrisy.

Why do I care? Am I thin skinned? No. I care because this stupidity is causing white people who are a little thin skinned to RUN (not walk, but RUN) right into the arms of the Rush Limbaughs of the world, who exploit stuff like this and say "See, I told you Liberals hate white people

[gulliver]

61. This article is fatuous paranoia.

It isn't just racist. It's extremely stupid and self-destroying for all progressive and multi-culturally oriented people. Just "drilling holes in the bottom of the boat to let the water out." Really, really dumb and paranoid.

[Starry Messenger]

63. K&R

[sheshe2]

65. Thanks Starry

Lots of testosterone here. Hmm.