Turns Out China IS Lying About Everything

[nadinbrzezinski]

In what may come as a shocking surprise to exactly nobody, the next great discovery as more and more layers of the global ponzi onion are exposed, is that China was, in fact, lying about everything. Yes, we know, stunning.

From the NYT:

As the Chinese economy continues to sputter, prominent corporate executives in China and Western economists say there is evidence that local and provincial officials are falsifying economic statistics to disguise the true depth of the troubles.

Record-setting mountains of excess coal have accumulated at the country’s biggest storage areas because power plants are burning less coal in the face of tumbling electricity demand. But local and provincial government officials have forced plant managers not to report to Beijing the full extent of the slowdown, power sector executives said.
Even that lonely indicator that some, even us, had considered somewhat realistic: electric output, is a mirage.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/turns-out-china-lying-about-everything

No, not a surprise... and no, not good.

If folks want to put it in the economy section, by all means

[zappaman]

1. "If folks want to put it in the economy section, by all means"

Why not just post it there?
Why expect others to do your work?
It would certainly make sense to post it there...

[2on2u]

2. another moonie i see... nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. Dupe

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. And your point?

Here...



FYI this is NOT LBN...

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. Can you spell "duplicate post"? As in Word for Word?

The first iteration of this information was posted over three hours before you graced us with yours.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Ah I see, it is PERSONAL

can you spell P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L?

I am not gracing you with anything, especially NOT YOU.

Nor do I look for EVERY POST on DU to make sure somebody else posted it. It happens to be that it came to me from a friend OVER EMAIL... can you spell P-E-T-T-Y?

I knew you could?

[freshwest]

32. Haha, you have a following. I wonder how it's done, some sort of software function? But anyway,

I don't think we need to single the Chinese out for lying, since lying about finances, etc. is one of humanity's best honed skills. Sentimental illusions keep us happy. I am so grateful for them, helps us make it through the day, LOL.

And it's great you have a following, since they manage to bump all your threads up. I never would have seen this story otherwise. Post some more pictures, okay?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. When I get more pictures

Chances are at a local fire... though will have some from the TPP demos... need to get a press hat... just in case it gets hot.

[Zalatix]

41. So if we agree with what she's saying, we're "followers"?

Gotcha.

I follow no one, but I'm glad to have seen this thread, thankyouverymuch.

[dionysus]

24. you don't want nostradamus' take on the story?

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. You made me snarf...

That's not cool LOL.

[zappaman]

7. Bookmarking

for the next time you say you are "bullied" and threaten to leave DU thereby depriving all of us of your wisdom.

[zappaman]

10. It's a dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002848146

[pscot]

18. Nine-hundred-and-forty-seven posts about Jerry Sandusky

and you call the Wahhmbulance over a dupe on China? Tsk, tsk.

[freshwest]

22. Okay, you asked for it:

The people complaining are bumping it up,

They must be nadine's sockpuppets!

Shame on you, nadine!

[marmar]

30. People only seem to point out "dupes" .....

..... when it's info they for whatever reason don't want to see posted at all.

[Ilsa]

8. As long as it isn't a

duplicate post in GD, what's the big deal? Happens all the time.

[indepat]

9. Who woulda' ever thunk the Chinese would ever dissemble?

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I know, I know

Anybody who knows the Chinese political system should be having an AHA moment!

[Lochloosa]

12. nadin...FYI..first time I've seen it...thanks

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. You welcome

[2ndAmForComputers]

27. Apparently

Some people will alert on a post of yours even if it only says "Ate onion rings today. Yum!" and it's in the Lounge.

[madrchsod]

13. besides what the fuck was that all about......

i think most people who follow china and it`s problems knew this was happening.

oh ya this was the first time i`ve seen this because i have`t been on du since early this morning

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. You welcome

I found it in my email after I came home.

[nanabugg]

16. So, if the folks who hold most of our debt are broke...where the hell is all the money??

When will someone ask the simple question....where is all the money. Sure there were lots of huge ponzi schemes out there but that only means someone got rich at others expense....so still...where is all the money? And why is it lying dormant and not being invested around the world? If there never was all that money, then debt doesn't matter..so lets get on with the imaginary wealth, print up some more Euros and dollars and let's get on with the good life around the world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. That is the kind of question that none wants or can answer

especially them at the top. This is why this is not good.

It is adding to the pattern, isn't it?

[Prometheus Bound]

20. Those trillions of foreign reserves China holds are borrowed money, not assets.

The government had to borrow yuan fom Chinese banks to buy the foreign currencies.

[freshwest]

23. I think you nailed it there. It's all fake! I have a link on that, but it's from the Onion.

[jeff47]

26. China isn't "the folks who hold most of our debt"

We are.

The vast majority of US debt is owed to people and companies in the US. "In hock to China" is a RW-meme designed to increase the "cut spending now" pressure.

[freshwest]

31. So 'cut spending now' to pay those investors would be a selling point to vote GOP?

They might favor draconian cuts to the social safety net to protect themselves. That would be a form of class warfare that is seldom discussed. All the nameless investors counting on money for pensions and the like, might be the ones voting for austerity to save their own money. The plot thickens. Although the money for the Iraq orgy of spending under Bush was technically 'borrowed' from China, and since they knew the money was not good for much, they insisted on being paid in kind through trade advantages. What do you think?

[jeff47]

36. The entire point is the money wasn't borrowed from China

It was borrowed from us. We loaned it to the government.

The goal is to cut social spending in order to finance tax cuts. You can't cut social spending if you're just throwing starving people on the street - voters won't go for it.

Instead, you claim we owe a ton of money to the "yellow menace". If we don't cut spending now, we're "selling our country to China". And you just ignore inconvenient facts like China hasn't bought US debt since 2007.

As an added bonus, you can get the left on board with "cut spending now" by claiming various right-wing goals were financed via China. Now the "China Owns Us" hysteria is bipartisan, making it even easier for Republicans + centrist Democrats to cut social spending.

Btw, why'd China buy so much US debt? Currency manipulation. The trade deficit with China means the Renminbi should be rising vs. the dollar. A strong Renminbi and weak Dollar would create a major crisis for China - their entire economy is based on selling cheap crap to everyone else. Buying US debt strengthens the dollar vs the Renminbi....for a while. The problem is it requires buying more and more debt to keep the effect going. And we don't actually produce enough debt for China to keep doing that. Which is why they stopped in 2007 and have been using other techniques to try and keep their currency low. These methods are less effective, which is one of the reasons why China's economy is starting to stall.

[freshwest]

39. Dude, I am going to have to make a flow chart out of what you said. Not that I disagree, but I don't

Get how 'buying debt' helps anyone. Except by interest payments... If a currency is squeezed by debt, it seems the money would be worth less. But it would also be less effort to collect interest. Then all of the money would not be good for the creditor, either. I agree that the right and left can exaggerate the claim of Chinese involvement.

Although I'd always seen the 'yellow menace' as a mere racist meme that had been discarded, not a real factor with people. Where I live, Asians, particularly Chinese, are moving here in great numbers and they are welcomed and they are good neighbors and workers, there's no hostility.

And my point was different, the way I see this being pushed in the USA is a clash of classes within this country. That some groups feel the deficit is going to hurt them due to lower returns on investments, etc. So they don't care about austerity at this time.

I'll have to copy this and hopefully get back to you on this if I can make any sense of it. Thanks for the information there. 'Finance' is just one of those subjects that make my eyes glaze over and I never paid attention to it, just personal finance.

[jeff47]

40. To buy US debt, they have to get US Dollars.

They converted a pile of their currency into Dollars because we only sell debt in Dollars.

That drives up demand for Dollars and reduces the demand for their currency.

If a currency is squeezed by debt, it seems the money would be worth less.

If they can't sell the debt, yes.

If they can sell the debt, then no....because they aren't squeezed by debt. We aren't anywhere close to being "squeezed by debt" - that's why we're paying <2% interest, and negative interest on inflation-protected debt. "Invest $1000 and get back $990" and people are buying it.

Much like the "in hock to China" statements aren't true, "debt crisis" isn't true either. But it does tie the hands of anyone trying to do something about the economy while. It also helps to "shock doctrine" out social spending.

Although I'd always seen the 'yellow menace' as a mere racist meme that had been discarded, not a real factor with people.

I find it's in the back of the mind of a fair number of Tea Partiers.

That some groups feel the deficit is going to hurt them due to lower returns on investments, etc. So they don't care about austerity at this time.

Those goals appear contradictory.

[msongs]

19. Soviet Union under Stalin had the same problems - directors lying to keep from being shot lol nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I know, the irony... isn't it?

[PavePusher]

34. Well, it really lasted far past Stalin.... for what it's worth. n/t

[annabanana]

28. Their 1% is richer than OUR 1%

Their 99% are more miserable than ours. They never had the luxury of a middle class. We have had one to hold dear in our memories.

[Romulox]

29. The idea that the CCP was the best-est, most super-duperest capitalists that ever were didn't strike

anyone else as implausible?

The Chinese are merely the club that our domestic ruling class uses to beat we American plebes...

[freshwest]

33. 'Economy section? I don't visit such moribund places, it might be contagious.

[PavePusher]

35. I have to seriously wonder about anyone....

to whom this is at all surprising.

A serious moment, indeed.

[roamer65]

38. Don't worry. They'll make up the gap with war production.

WW3 is just around the corner. You can just feel it.

[Franker65]

42. I don't think so

I don't think WW3 is around the corner. I just think economic conditions will get unbearable if China goes downhill. No surprise they were hiding information, hope it isn't as bad as it sounds.