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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone else notice how miserable Melania looks whenever she is near the Donald?
At times she looks like she might get sick just listening to her mean, fat, blowhard spouse. Check out their first dance at the Freedom Ball. They can't even fake comfort let alone affection. Makes me wonder how she managed to get pregnant. Only her years of practice modeling vapid smiles gets her through it. But it is obvious to me that she would rather not be anywhere around him and doesn't like him one bit. I don't think it will be long before she gets "ill" and disappears off the radar.
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SunSeeker
(58,285 posts)
LeftInTX
(34,317 posts)I can't relate to her body language. She's like someone out of a James Bond movie. I can't tell what she thinks or feels. I think she would have the same body language even if Trump was not in her life. I think they deserve each other.
Bozvotros
(961 posts)But I have seen her do interviews where she did not look so uncomfortable. My wife says it is fear of losing her son that has kept her there. Maybe it is just fear. Narcissistic rage with family members can be a terrifying thing. The narcissist is careful to not let outsiders see how dark and vengeful they can be. But family members are not as lucky. if they disappoint or forget deference or don't reflect total devotion they can be in for a long night of verbal and often physical abuse. Of course the next morning they can be jolly and playful as though nothing of significance occurred. And if the family knows what is good for them they will play along.
Nwgirl503
(406 posts)Except when you have an entire world outside your door. She's as complicit as his cronies are. She KNEW what she was getting into. She has means to leave. It's the devil you know. Much like Rat Face Barbie Kellyanne Conway. Souls are fucking cheap in Trumpland. Gold is God and she's got enough gold to choke on. Hope her Ralph Lauren outfit is enough to appease her passage into the Underworld.
tblue37
(68,438 posts)
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Service Ball too.
PearliePoo2
(7,768 posts)Remember, she piled on too, trashing Obama with the 'Birther' shit. The hell with her.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)LeftInTX
(34,317 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)
chillfactor
(7,694 posts)...and she looks like she has drifted off into another world.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)"At the end of the day, when you have worked hard and won the biggest battle of your life, its good to bask in the blissful satisfaction that comes from a job well done."
Charles Bukowski
(1,132 posts)His mind is clearly going.
area51
(12,696 posts)
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)??
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)What love looks like.
http://time.com/barack-michelle-obama-love-story-photos/
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)fake marriages hurt to look at
NBachers
(19,444 posts)She's just so androidy.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Need to find a video of "Satisfied Mind," the Byrds' version my favorite.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)
Rollo
(2,559 posts)
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... is between the two people who are in it. It's no one else's business.
Donald Trump has a LOT to be held accountable for. The inner workings of his marriage are irrelevant.
Let's focus on important issues, statements and policies - instead of wasting time discussing body language, and speculating endlessly about Trump & Melania's sex life.
A mindless, pussy-grabbing, bigoted Tweet-twit has just been inaugurated. Surely we have more important issues to discuss than his wife's "vapid smile".
msongs
(73,766 posts)amuse bouche
(3,672 posts)The entire disgusting klan needs to be mocked mercilessly
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)amuse bouche
(3,672 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)Do not make me come back there.
amuse bouche
(3,672 posts)Always the driver 
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)I'll send Nance.
tblue37
(68,438 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... demand that anyone "share their morality"?
The GOP have traditionally done so - but we know they're hypocrites anyway.
But when and where did Trump & Melania make such a demand?
Given Trump's policies, positions, statements, etc., do you really think it is somehow productive to discuss how he and his wife get along, to speculate on their relationship, to interpret body language and gossip about the details behind vacuous smiles?
I give a shit what this man is planning for the future of this nation. I think that is far more important than whether his wife likes him or not - which I really don't give a shit about at all.
A complete IDIOT is now in the most powerful position on the planet. THIS is reality - not a "reality show", with behind-the-scenes footage for the fans who need to know every last, OMG! gossipy detail about whose body language said what.
canetoad
(20,769 posts)Abused women hide their abuse. This is the most obvious, tragic, abject case of abuse and you're asking people not to talk about it?
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)Is she? Perhaps. But that's HER business, not yours.
I'll say it again: We now have a complete IDIOT in the most powerful position on earth. How he and his wife conduct their marriage isn't even a blip on the radar screen compared to his abuse of that power, and of the citizenry as a whole.
Watching people turn the Trump marriage into something worth speculating about/gossiping about is like watching people - people who claim to be interested in what's going on in the country - talking about who wore what to the Inaugural, who snubbed who at a luncheon, whose "body language" can be interpreted as having said what.
If Melania is unhappy with her marriage, she can walk away from it. The American people cannot simply walk away from what Trump and his GOP minions are about to do to millions of citizens.
If you think it productive to discuss the Trump marriage instead of focusing on far more important things, that's your prerogative. As for me, I'm more into actual news than Entertainment Tonight speculation about what might or might not be going on behind closed doors.
canetoad
(20,769 posts)You can rationalize, with very good reason, that it's none of our business. But I say the manner in which DFT treats his wife is a pointer to how he treats the country.
And as far as your line, "If you think it productive to discuss the Trump marriage instead of focusing on far more important things, that's your prerogative", that was uttered with complete condescencion. I don't need your advice or comments on what is productive or not.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... that if you think it's productive to talk about such things, you've every right to do so.
Saying that what goes on in a marriage is between the parties involved is not "rationalizing" anything. It is stating a fact. What happens in any marriage, other than your own, is none of your business.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)obviously there is going to be speculation regardless. I personally can't stand all the media bashing threads....um hello we need them..without them we are screwed. Um hello by continuing to bash the media you are doing exactly what Trashbag wants... to delegitimizing the media. Sorry I digress...so I just don't respond to those threads because they make me fume. I suggest you do the same with these trivial threads that piss you off.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)The problem arises when that "speculation" is touted as some kind of insight into a relationship that no one is privy to, and as factual information when it's merely supermarket tabloid "journalism".
Given Trump's stated agenda and his actions thus far, speculating about the state of his marriage is a childish, fanzine distraction from far more important matters.
Doreen
(11,686 posts)I take it you have never been beaten, raped, emotionally and verbally abused day after day? She is a foreigner and I do not think she has family here, she has a child that the courts would give to Trump without a thought. There is a thing called fear and it is extremely powerful and for a lot of people just "walking away" is not an option. There are some who can just walk away but that is usually very few. I am not saying she is abused and I am not saying she isn't but the "she can walk away" statement is usually not as true as some think it is.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)But that's what all of this endless speculation amounts to - so-called "alternate facts" that have no basis in reality.
I walked away from an abusive marriage many, many years ago - and took my child with me. So don't even go there when it comes to "I take it you've never been ..." You don't know any more about my personal situation than you know about Melania's personal situation.
"She has a child that the courts would give to Trump without a thought."
And where did YOU get your law degree? Trump University? You obviously don't know the first thing about how the courts view situations like this.
Bozvotros
(961 posts)1. Tell me which First Couple is not subject to speculation. Did I say she was a monkey or a whore or a crook or stupid or uppity or any of the trash Republicans of all stripes hurled at Hillary for 24 years and Michelle for 8 ?
2. I was simply commenting on how miserable she looks to me when he is around and wondered if others noticed it. Saturday was the longest time I ever saw them together and she appeared very uncomfortable.
3. I wasn't focused on her vapid smile. I said her model training in vapid smiling succeeded in hiding what seemed to me to be distaste but just barely.
4. Everyone calls Trump a narcissist which is speculation but seems pretty obvious to most people.
5. I think he is a malignant narcissist and they are known to make terrible threats to people around them who could be a threat. They also expect those people to love them regardless how ghastly the threat.
6. Of course I am very worried about a lot of other things Trump is up to or could do. But I it is confirming of those worries when it looks like someone who should be very close to him looks afraid or sad or angry when she can't get away quickly.
7. If it was something else that upset you In what i wrote please let me know.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... (and not to any great degree, because DU is not exactly shaping opinion in the real world) is the fact that some people think that Trump's marriage, or Melania's behaviour. is worth speculating about as though it matters.
It smacks of people more interested in supermarket tabloid headlines than what is really going on in terms of the nation, and what direction it's headed in under pResident Trump.
It is reminiscent of RWers who sliced, diced and julienned the Clinton presidency based on speculation about whether Bill and Hillary were "on the outs" - as though it mattered to the welfare of the nation.
I guess I've just never been into fanzine "news" about who "appears to be" unhappy, or annoyed, or whose body language should be "interpreted" by people who have no clue as to what goes on between two people in a marriage.
Intelligent political discussion should not include "his wife looks unhappy". What matters is whether the country IS unhappy - and why.
Trump was elected to public office - his wife wasn't. Speculation about HIS statements, HIS behaviour, HIS Cabinet picks, HIS "Tweets", HIS attitude are all fair game. Speculation about his wife and their relationship are meaningless forays into irrelevancy by people who actually buy supermarket tabloids, and think they are somehow well-informed as a result thereof.
But I find it interesting that you don't think Trumps behavior towards his wife (or her response to him) is "fair game." The man has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of respect for her in much the same way as he has towards women in general. It's not speculation that he was married to Melania when he was talking about grabbing women's genitals and was allegedly assaulting a large number of women.. You can also observe something not quite right in his behavior towards Ivanka and Tiffany but that would be speculative also.
The man is grossly character disordered I believe and that shows up in a lot of ways including how he treats those closest to him. Saturday was the first time I actually saw the first couple interacting for more than a few seconds and it was striking to me how remote it looked and how she did not appear to be comfortable. Maybe the country is unhappy with him for the same reason she is i.e. his chronic dishonesty and self absorption. But I believe your point is we should not speculate on this, even if there is some objective evidence.
I disagree with your description of the right wings treatment of Bill and Hillary. They did speculate some on their marital status but that was the frosting on the cake they baked which included wholesale character assassination of both of them for anything they could come up with or without evidence. I am not seeing this as the same thing.
But I will try to keep your principle in mind in case he decides to grab someone again, "hike the Appalachian trail" or takes a wide stance in an airport bathroom or gets charged with the assault of someone in his family etc. But I have little hope that our loyal opposition would be that gracious if the shoe were on the other foot.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)The only time we have seen Melania in the past 18 months is in connection with Trump’s campaign. Maybe she looks miserable because she never wanted to be in the public eye, and now her every move is scrutinized. Maybe she’s uncomfortable being thrust into the role of FLOTUS, a role she is not prepared for, and knowing that she will constantly compared to her predecessor, who was an exceptional First Lady. But you’ve decided that she looks like she’s sick when she listens to her spouse.
Maybe she looks unhappy because her shoes are too tight, or she had a quarrel with a friend, or she just got troubling news about a family member. But you’ve decided that she’s miserable because of her marriage.
“They can’t even fake comfort, let alone affection.” Chances are she was extremely uncomfortable being the centre of attention. But you’ve decided that she is “faking affection”.
”Makes me wonder how she managed to get pregnant.” So you have decided what kind of sexual relationship they have.
”Only her years of practice modeling vapid smiles gets her through it.” Gets her through what? Oh, right – gets her through the miserable marriage you’ve decided she has.
”But it is obvious to me that she would rather not be anywhere around him and doesn't like him one bit.” That’s quite a super-power you have there, actually knowing how a woman feels about her husband and her marriage.
Do I think Trump treats Melania with disrespect? Sure – we’ve SEEN that with our own eyes. How she reacts to that treatment is her business, not yours nor anyone else’s.
What’s being discussed constantly about Melania is not mere speculation – it is looking at videos and photos and making declarations of fact – she hates her husband, she would have divorced him if he hadn’t been elected, she only married him for his money, etc. – based on absolutely zero facts.
Every statement or action by Trump is fair game. As the current occupant of the WH, he is a public figure and his position demands scrutiny. But attributing emotions, feelings, motives to his wife based on a facial expression or body language is the stuff of supermarket tabloid bullshit written by and for people who pretend to actually know what is inside someone else’s head, or what goes on in someone else’s marriage.
Bozvotros
(961 posts)Nance,
Sounds like you must have noticed the misery too because you came up with quite a few possibilities about why that might be. I wonder why it's okay for you to speculate on possible causes of her misery but not okay for me to offer my observation that she seems more miserable around him. I hadn't decided anything really but was wondering if anyone had the same perception. You however, after reading my post seem to have decided that I must be the kind of person that likes to pass snap judgments, gossip and focus on superficialities. At least that's how it's coming across.
I thought they looked awkward and she looked tense during their dance. You might be exactly right when you said she might not like being the center of attention. On the other hand she is a runway model and posed nude or nearly nude in soft porn movies. So that explanation does seem a little unlikely. Could be that he creeps her out. I know he does me.
My comment about how she managed to get pregnant was mean spirited snark and I regret it. Years of listening to Republican bullshit speculation about Democrats has made me a little too eager to get a few cheap shots in when I can. That that was mostly meant for Donald . You ever feel that way or indulge that a little?
You were off when you guessed that I was talking about her practiced vapid smiles getting her through her marriage. I just meant their little dance and brief time on stage.
I have been a therapist for 30 plus years and have worked with many couples. I am a fairly good reader of body language and admit I am speculating that she doesn't like him or being around him. It could be pure projection because I can't stand him. But I am not making broad assertions about her character and motives. I'm very inclined to assume she is trapped or deeply afraid. I have worked with a good many people who have been raised by or involved with malignant narcissists. They often had very good reasons to be afraid.
I don't read Supermarket tabloids so I don't know what kind of things they print about celebrities. I always just figured it was a bunch of lies to sell copies. But Melania Trump is now the FLOTUS. Whether she likes it or not she is a public figure now too. People are going to be watching her closely and read into the things she says and does just like they did all the ones that came before her. Facial expressions and body language are a big part of how we are seen by and communicate to people That too is fair game for her. I will be very surprised if she remains in the public eye for very long because I don't think she can convincingly reflect the adoration that Donald requires. And that's no reflection on her.
And you are right, she does have some very big shoes to fill after Michelle Obama.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)Do I detect "misery" in Melania's behaviour? No. What I detect is someone who is extremely uncomfortable with a role that she did not seek - a role in which she is expected to do, say, and act in certain ways, while the eyes of the entire world are watching.
She is no doubt fully aware of the popularity of her predecessor, which makes her all the more vulnerable to the fear that any mis-step, any mis-speak, any slight faux pas will be ridiculed as not as pitch-perfect as the woman whose act she's following.
I see Melania as I would an actress who was suddenly thrust onstage - without really knowing the play, where her marks are, or what her lines are supposed to be. Throw in the fact that the play is in English (not her first language), and that her accent sounds distinctly "foreign", when she has been cast in a role traditionally played by the all-American girl.
There is nothing wrong with noting someone's body language or demeanour - we all do that. What I find appalling is stating as FACT what she is thinking; e.g. She looks miserable because she hates her husband. She's acting that way because Trump makes her sick. She looks uncomfortable because she can't stand Trump being near her.
"It could be pure projection because I can't stand him." I think that's where a lot of this "I know what she's thinking" comes from. People are thinking about what their reaction would be in Melania's place, without giving any thought to the idea that Melania's view of her husband might be totally different than theirs.
Bozvotros
(961 posts)You say extremely uncomfortable, I say miserable. I think misery may be too strong now but I did note a very immediate and significant lightening of her affect when she changed dance partners.
I agree with your observation that The FLOTUS role has to be a hard one for her to pick up. Nothing she has done that I know of could have possibly prepared her for the decorum and expectations of this one.
You "detected someone who is extremely uncomfortable with a role that she did not seek - a role in which she is expected to do, say, and act in certain ways, while the eyes of the entire world are watching." I am not sure how you know what she is thinking or feeling but you decided to share it and I am not appalled by it. I also admit it is a much more charitable view than the one I put forward.
I don't have any idea what she knows about Michelle Obama Michelle is very popular among a majority of Americans but a very outspoken minority has said heinous things about her and I'd bet Melania probably has heard more from them than Michelle's fans. I don't think any first lady with the possible exception of Hillary Clinton faced as much out and out hatred and malicious remarks as Michelle Obama. Maybe that terrifies Melania too.
For the most part I did not post my observations as FACTS: In fact my subject was a question if anyone else noticed my observation. I did not use the word "because" because I was not asserting cause and effect or saying that no other opinion was acceptable. I said she looks like she might get sick just listening to him. I said it was obvious to me she would rather not be around him and doesn't like him a bit. I said I didn't think she would be around long. I did say that they can't even fake comfort or affection which is what I still think. I accept others might think differently.
Bottom line is that neither of us knows for sure what Melania actually thinks about her husband or for that matter what he thinks about her but both of us are free to speculate and have.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)To be clear, I did not attribute any thoughts or feelings to Melania. I stated what I perceive when I see her. I could be completely wrong.
But I do recognize certain facial expressions, body language, etc., that I have seen in women I've known in situations similar to hers, women who were suddenly thrust into the spotlight by virtue of their husband's success. For women who are unprepared or just naturally shy, they live in fear of saying or doing "the wrong thing" and being ridiculed for it. Surely that pressure is a thousand-fold on any FLOTUS.
As for posting your observations as fact, that wasn't aimed at you, but at other posters here who persist in speaking in absolutes. Everyone is free to speculate, but I do object when speculation becomes, "I know for a fact ..."
As for Michelle's popularity, while I'm sure Melania has heard all of the RW crap about her, she can't help but also have heard/read about the praise that's been heaped upon Michelle at home and abroad. In fact, I'd be surprised if Melania wasn't following Michelle in the news since election night, looking for clues as to how to conduct herself in her new role.
In any event, the way things are unfolding, I don't think Melania has to worry about her FLOTUS responsibilities for very long.
akbacchus_BC
(5,830 posts)to govern, stay focus. This is how trump is! I cannot believe anyone thinks that his wife is of any importance!
Doreen
(11,686 posts)has the importance from the simple fact that she is a human. I see her face and suspect abuse of one form or another and feel for her despite the fact she got herself into the marriage. Just because she got into it does not mean she deserves any abuse.
Skittles
(171,745 posts)
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)rumdude
(448 posts)The word "awkward" does not begin to cover it.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)He made a comment about the press picking on her about her convention speech and it possibly costing him his wife. It was out of character for him.
And i've seen her talk about him. She seems to think he is a great man. That may be changing some with all the crap coming out about his behavior, but I think most of what people are seeing, is her discomfort at the public attention, and a seriously bad case of resting bitch face. I've also wondered if she has vision problems...she is squinty a lot in public which gives her that Zoolander vibe...
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)But you can tell they're very comfortable being close to each other, and there were some very affectionate moments. I can't imagine how awkward it is to be up on stage dancing alone. They held hands very spontaneously throughout the day. I dunno, I caught the same vibe as you although I suspect we're very much in the minority.
Furthermore, I get the feeling Melania Trump isn’t actually very excited about this new gig - some of her reticence seems to be from ambivalence about her new role. The entire day must seem very surreal.
betsuni
(29,082 posts)during all the ceremonies. Probably doesn't have much help. At one point Trump gave her a little pat on the hand, and although he walked ahead of her all the time and let her fend for herself, at least she got a little sympathetic pat. My opinion is that Trump respects her. She keeps all the mystery -- separate bedrooms, bathrooms -- never lets him see her without makeup, doesn't talk much probably. She is a beautiful goddess, not like regular women who fart and poop and use curse words and get blisters from high heels and eat night cheese while wearing flannel pajamas and socks. He's a little afraid of her.
Oh, and I love that she still has brown hair, didn't bleach the hell out it (Kellyanne Conway, looking at you).
tblue37
(68,438 posts)been looking for a father figure to take care of her.
I imagine Trump reminds her of her father. She might really be attached to him, and even if he is overbearing with her, she might consider that normal if her father was like that to her mother and to her. Certainly Trump bears a striking resemblance to her father (right down to the ill-fitting suit and the tie):
HoBeKaT
(3 posts)She looks like a scorn woman.... she knows more about his infidelity then she admitts
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,818 posts)
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)Even her boyfriend. She doesn't give a shit...it's all about her. We all drove together to go to a party and she's out of the car up the block while me and her boyfriend weren't even out the door yet.....it's really very strange....and I've never seen anything like it before. But that is what this photo reminds me of and guess what she has quite a bit of narcissist traits in her.
Cha
(319,168 posts)There are two types of men. Presenting exhibits A and B..
"side-by-side of inauguration arrivals at Whitehouse 2009 versus 2017"
Link to tweet
pkduhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8514462
Many people are like President Obama.. thoughtful, sensitive to others and have the class not to barge ahead like a gd buffalo.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)new to Melania and she has come to expect this by now....just as we expect it from my co worker. Personally I think it's common courtesy.....married or not...man or woman..I would wait for the people I came with...especially especially at an event such as this..I mean come on now.
Cha
(319,168 posts)TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)that interested but I love all the free Melania jokes etc...I saw a sign yesterday that said "Melania if you need help blink twice"
erinlough
(2,176 posts)I can see it every time they are in public. For whatever reason, which we will probably never know, she stays, but she can't stand him.
Blue_Roses
(13,884 posts)and while what goes on in their marriage is none of our business, I can't help but feel compassion for her and her young son. I think that's why she liked Michelle Obama so much, because she had found a kindred soul who was genuinely kind to her for just being her--not Trump's wife. I imagine Michelle was warm, welcoming, and personable, just like a friend would be. Melania probably needed that feeling of genuine kindness. She doesn't seem to have any friends and that can get REAL lonely, especially being married to someone like Trump. I really feel for her...
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)She had to endure terrible humiliation when the campaign gave her a plagiarized speech to read. The world knows that her husband has little respect for women and therefore her. And, there is no doubt in my mind that she was thrown into this very public role involuntarily.
Lady_Chat
(561 posts)She was smiling, he was smiling, they were talking and laughing, he twirled her around a few times, he was a very good dancer, he looked relaxed and she looked relaxed, she really looked like she was enjoying herself, like young people would. Then it was back to Trump, he looked even older and more unattractive, and they both looked miserable.
Maybe I'm too use to the affection the Obamas showed, but the Trumps never look to be thrilled to be with each other. He always walks ahead of her, never extends an arm to help her, barely touches her, hardly ever smiles at her. She's a beautiful woman, and I think he likes to show her off, but that's it.
Another thing, she seems very unwilling to move to DC, she claims it's because of their son's schooling, but every other 1st family has relocated when the time came to move. Unfortunately, it will cost taxpayers an additional one million dollars a day, if she stays. If Trump was picking up the tab, it would be fine with me, but he isn't. Whole thing is just odd.
LynnTTT
(363 posts)about their marriage, if Trump tapes down his tie, if Barron has Aspergers, if Trump has little hands, if Melania has a real degree, who does Donald's hair or any other "fun to talk about" personal issues.
Don't waste your time. There are bigger fish to fry. Focus people, focus.