Biden has proven to be a poor choice for VP

[quinnox]

Ever since Joe Biden was announced as the pick for the VP, I thought of it as Obama's first mistake. Now many mistakes have followed that bad choice on the part of President Barack Obama, but at least this one can be corrected. There has been some talk of Biden being dumped as the VP and a new person chosen in his place. Why not?

Joe Biden has proven to be a rather ineffective and weak presence as the vice president. We went from Al Gore showing that a VP can play an important part in a partnership with the president and have a good deal of power, to Biden going back to the traditional weak and hidden VP of the past.

I bet if you asked 10 random Americans in the street, many of them wouldn't even know who Joe Biden is, or could even name him as the current VP.

This guy brings nothing to the table as vice president, and was the first mistake in a long chain of them by Mr. Obama. Might as well change that mistake and bring a little excitement to the Dem party by picking someone else. Hillary is the name usually floated but I think there are many other candidates as well. Hell, anyone but Biden as VP would probably help Obama more than what Biden would do in the next election.

Let's be honest, McCain was an exceptionally bad candidate for the GOP last time and was basically a "gimme" election win for Obama, so a Biden didn't really hurt as the pick that time however bad it was. The upcoming election will be far tougher, with the country not very happy or willing to give Obama another chance. At least a new VP would generate some talk and spice and enthusiasm for the Democrats which could help a struggling uphill battle not to lose the presidency.

[AtomicKitten]

1. (cough) bullshit

[wryter2000]

3. +1 n/t

n/t

[Amaril]

16. +2 n/t

n/t

[liberal N proud]

20. +3

[surfdog]

24. +4

[bluerum]

25. +5

[Thumper79]

32. +6

[independentpiney]

34. +7

[karynnj]

38. +++++++++

Do you think we will ever NOT see the disappointed Clinton people pushing for her to get various things.

As it was Obama made her Secretary of State - rather than leave her as a relatively low seniority Senator.

The fact is that Biden was a good VP choice giving the campaign deep foreign policy experience and a real connection to middle class America. As VP, Biden has quietly been an asset to Obama. The OP might note that it was Biden, who was the liaison the administration had to Iraq - rather than the Secretary of State.

[MADem]

104. Please don't blame this kind of crap on "Clinton people"

disappointed, or otherwise.

This kind of OP is pure divisiveness for divisiveness' sake. It does not help get Democrats elected, which is one of the TOS goals of this board--that's the problem I have with it.

Hillary Clinton has made it clear what her future holds, and it's not government service. Anyone with half a brain knows that Clinton is soon to be out of government--this SECSTATE gig is her last hurrah. An individual claiming to be a genuine Clinton acolyte would surely have paid attention to her pronouncements, and supported the candidate she supports--President Obama. Prosecuting silly pipe dreams about her future prospects, or how "awful" Biden is, on left leaning message boards isn't what Hillary Clinton wants, so these types of comments are plainly working against--not for--her, as well as working against reelection of Obama-Biden.

I can only conclude that the actual agenda here goes way beyond wanting something for Clinton that she, herself, has quite emphatically said she does not want and has no interest in pursuing. It's a process that suggests use of a long wooden spoon and a great deal of stirring.

I don't like seeing a Clinton cloak thrown over a load of fracturing bullshit--it's not fair to her, it isn't what she wants, and it's not fair to those of us who did support Clinton with enthusiasm in the last primary, but were able to shift gears and move forward without too much agita, and who intend to heartily support the incumbent President in his reelection bid.

Bottom line, in my view--these kinds of threads are divisive, over-the-top, disruptive, absurd....and the worst crime of all, dumb. They're fantasies, and they're not even smart fantasies!

[karynnj]

130. I should have been clearer - I did not mean the people actually associated with Clinton, but many

posters here - whose posts I have seen for years. They have backed the earlier rumors and the ones this week. I agree that the majority of people who supported Clinton in 2008 have nothing to do with this. But there are a small remnant of Clinton supporters here who can't give up the dream.

[MADem]

148. If they continue to behave in a divisive and destructive fashion, they really are

no friend of Hillary Clinton, and the only thing they are "supporting" is a GOP winner in 2012.

All of this brouhaha about Clinton running has a deep and monied root in the right wing. Eventually, we'll find out who paid for those robocalls, and which useful tool-fools propagated it. It's utter nonsense. How many times does the woman have to say no?

The people making mischief are not doing Clinton any favors--which makes me have to ask "Cui bono?"

It's either perfidy or stupidity at play, here.

[karynnj]

152. There is likely no one more annoyed and angry at this than Hillary

She has made many contributions to the country pretty much ever since leaving law school. She has been an important part of the Obama administration and she has - as you said - been 100% clear that she was not interested.

I think you are right that it is suspicious that this is coming up and seems to make its way over to the right each time - where they report it as the "left" unhappy with the choice they made in 2008 - which does seem a theme on the right that they source to the left.

[MADem]

153. I am pretty confident that no one on our team funded that stupid robocall effort.

That has a Rovian stink on it, IMO...

I just don't understand why anyone claiming to be a left-leaner would be so anxious to work for the right by shopping such transparent foolishness.

I was up in it pretty thick for HRC in the primary, and most of my friends and acquaintances were on the same page. I know a fair amount of people, and I don't know a soul who thinks this silly story is valid, likely or anything other than rightwing tripe.

Makes ya wonder!

[gateley]

134. Biden was the one in contact with Bhutto and Musharraf before Bush was - his foreign policy

contacts and chops are stellar. Obama has wisely utilized Joe for several FP assignments.

I think Hillary is an exceptional SOS, but Biden has history with so many of the players and it's wise to call upon that when assignments arise, IMO.

[rosesaylavee]

175. Agreed - Biden has proven himself time and again...

I love that guy and think he's doing great.

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. +8

[Motown_Johnny]

41. +9

[A-Schwarzenegger]

51. +11

[Kahuna]

64. + 12 nt

[OutNow]

70. +13

yup - bullshit

[Liberal In Texas]

76. +14

Where's the unrec button when you need it?

[Mr Dixon]

97. ROFL

Good one

[JoePhilly]

126. Best Response of all!!

[jberryhill]

151. +13

[Lord Helmet]

156. + 18

crap I lost count

[tammywammy]

159. +19

[Warren DeMontague]

167. +20

[byronius]

180. 21, here. Biden's a frickin' god.

[FSogol]

2. Unrec. How the VP handles his job is largely contingent on

what the President gives him to do. Bashing Biden is pointless.

[CakeGrrl]

4. The "Draft Hillary" PsyOps

They is a-workin!

[ProSense]

17. My observation is air-tight

The anti-Obama camp, from day one: People pining for Hillary (and this is not the majority of Hillary supporters), RW libertarians and Republicans.

[Union Scribe]

83. Apparently so air tight it's cut off your oxygen.

Criticism of Obama here has mostly come from the left. I have less use for any Clinton than I do for Obama.

[juajen]

162. Do not lump her with RW libertarians and Republicans, please. You are making Hillary respecters

angry. Not a wise thing to do when we (including President Clinton) are gearing up to support Obama. Hillary and Bill have earned the right not to be trashed on this forum. Get a grip!

[TBF]

170. I don't believe that's true -

when I was caucusing for Obama there were republicans there voting for Hillary - because we have an open primary and they felt she'd be easier to beat. That in fact is one of the reasons I volunteered for Obama's campaign. He seemed to be the one who could beat the repubs.

I don't know if that's true anymore. I think with her post as Secretary of State it has actually increased her stature. If I were her I'd stay put and try in 2016. Jmo.

[mopinko]

30. +1

[MjolnirTime]

179. 4 years later and they still can't accept that their dream is over.

[Ikonoklast]

5. And a new low has now been set on The DU.

UNREC.

[MADem]

18. TWO posts today that have made me long for that UNREC, as well--both about Obama, too.

Is this an accident, or a bit of "cleverness" that really isn't terribly clever?

[sarcasmo]

154. I miss the unrec.

[RZM]

6. No

Obama and the top Democratic strategists knew what they were doing when they picked Biden. Obama's appeal was in his rhetoric and his identity, not in his actual record of public service. In particular, he was lacking in FP experience. They needed to reassure people by picking somebody who had credibility on that front. Hence Biden.

Dumping him would be a mistake. It would send a message that the president isn't confident in his team and would signal weakness. They need to appear sure of themselves and thus Biden will stay.

[soryang]

35. Joe Biden - Major Iraq War promoter...

...and protector of the credit card industry. Yeah, he has lots of credibility with the wrong people.

[karynnj]

43. Biden was not "major Iraq supporter" any more than Hillary was

You might remember that HOWARD DEAN was FOR the Biden/Lugar resolution, which was the SFRC's version of the IWR. His support of Delaware's credit card industry was wrong.

[soryang]

192. Biden pumped for the second Iraq invasion on prime time every chance he had.

He was a big time war monger. Hillary is a monster as well.

[CakeGrrl]

36. Except President Obama's FP cred now stands admirably on its own.

The GOP would sing the praises of the things that have occurred on Obama's watch nonstop had he been a Republican.

And by all accounts, the final decisions on 50-50 type issues belonged solely to POTUS.

Biden would not remain for this reason, IMO. I've always thought he was the plain-talker where the President had to be more even-keeled and measured in his responses -- a variation on 'Good Cop / Bad Cop".

But since they agreed months ago that Biden would run again, it's pretty moot.

[tridim]

7. I assume Bo will be next in the anti-Obama bash fest?

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Dayum

If I had a 'rec' for this post only! grrrr!

But fair point! After that - it will be Bo's dog groomer!

[FSogol]

45. Heh-heh

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100285367

[quinnox]

52. nope

I don't care about some damn dog, what can I say.

[October]

55. Already has its own thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100285367

I happened to see it a few minutes ago. Unreal.

[randome]

8. Except the Democrats are NOT struggling uphill and the Republicans are self-destructing.

We only need to stay the course.

[abbeyco]

9. Doesn't this belong with the other Obama bad/Hillary good junk?

What a disgusting post, not worthy of DU.

[Enrique]

10. serious question

what's a VP supposed to do that Biden isn't doing?

And remind me, what did Al Gore do as VP? Also a serious question.

[quinnox]

58. Al Gore is well known for

elevating what a VP can do and making the role much more than simply a placeholder. This isn't something I'm making up, trust me.

[Union Scribe]

93. Sadly, he lobbied for NAFTA. nt

[SixthSense]

12. Biden was a good choice actually

He brought political experience that Obama didn't have, and specifically foreign policy experience, which Obama didn't have at all.

A VP is supposed to be in the background - the office has only one power of consequence under the Constitution (chairing the Senate), and other than that the person has no job other than to step in to the Presidency as an alternate.

A VP who was more active would make it more difficult to perform his primary role. Ideally you want a VP who hasn't pissed anybody off so that if a transition does need to be made it can be done smoothly. If your VP is an active political combatant then he will have much more difficultly pulling the country together in the wake of a disabled or deceased President.

The other thing you want in a VP is that he doesn't look like a more attractive option to anybody than keeping the current President. I used to refer to Dan Quayle as life insurance, back in the day.

[onenote]

50. +1

[gateley]

136. Yeah, I heard Number One Job is to not make The Boss look bad! I think Biden has played

a far more important role than we're aware of, and I think Obama wants to keep him around.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

13. IIABDFI

[Poll_Blind]

14. I disagree. Joe Biden is an excellent person but he also understands his role as VP.

Which, in many ways, is to follow dutifully in the President's shadow and do his bidding. Is that a controversial statement? If so, why? This is politics.

I think if Biden were president he would govern very differently than Obama. However, as VP his role is not to govern, it is to act as an effective part of President Obama's political apparatus. He understands that. Just about every VP in American history has.

Though I disagree with how he's been used and how he's let himself be used, he's doing a yeoman's job playing the role he believes a VP should: Stay out of the way, do what your told and be prepared at any moment to take a seat at the desk of arguably the most important politician on Earth.

I also disagree that McCain was a "gimme". Wildly disagree.

I also believe President Obama should be the one generating talk and spice and enthusiasm, not a figurehead VP.

PB

[unblock]

28. mccain wasn't a "gimme" only in the sense that the entire general election was a "gimme"

a democrat winning was practically a foregone conclusion.

shrub had completely devastated the republican brand, and people were going to vote for a change regardless. republicans will always have their fanatic supporters, but MANY republicans were embarrassed to even admit to being republican, and many became independents.

look at how much money poured into the democratic side. absolutely unheard of. republicans normally have a huge financial advantage. but for the 2008 election, big money knew early that there was no way any republican was going to beat any democrat. so they poured money into the democratic side to gain influence with the eventual winner rather than waste it on mclame.

yes, obama could have screwed it up, but any remotely competent democrat would have won.

[quinnox]

31. So you realy think MClame had a chance??

You "wildly" disagree that McLame was a very bad candidate for the GOP? Then how do you explain how he did so horrible in the election results?

[onenote]

59. McCain got 9 million more votes than Gore did eight years earlier

McCain's nearly 60 million votes was nearly as many as Bush II got in 2004. McCain lost not because he was an impossibly bad candiate, but because Obama was a very good candidate.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[quinnox]

63. no problem, because I totally disagree with you

McLame was a horrible candidate and didn't stand a chance. The crushing electoral defeat he suffered is proof enough of that, and see unblocks post above mine for more about how the political environment favored the Democrats heavily as well.

If you really think McCain was a good candidate for the GOP I don't know what to say.

[onenote]

67. He was no worse than chimpy. He lost because he was up against a much better candidate.

[MADem]

15. You apparently don't realize that it was BIDEN who urged OBAMA to run in the first place?

He told him that NOW was his time; if he waited, his moment would pass.

I suspect that Obama is not going to listen to your very poor advice. The counsel he's been getting from Biden -- since he first hit the Senate -- has been pretty damned good, all things considered. It got him to the Oval Office, after all.

I don't think you made your case, either.

[karynnj]

47. I thought it was Dubin who said that

Biden, who was running himself, would have had a vested interest NOT to do that. All I remember was Biden's controversial (though I think innocent) comment on him being clean and articulate.

I think Biden was a very good choice.

[MADem]

79. You might be right. Or Chuck Schumer. Or maybe both.

Brain farts are an unfortunate side effect of aging, I fear!

Biden was running for VP all along, I suspect...or--for the job he thought he could get, regardless of who shook out as the winner, owing to his foreign policy expertise--SECSTATE.

I don't think Biden was ever "in it to win it." His campaign never had any goose to it. Running, though, did give him a shot at an administration post--I'll bet he didn't necessarily expect to get such a good one.

I think Biden is a great choice--he's got the background in foreign and domestic policy, and he has the Hill experience--if you don't know how the Hill works, it can really screw you up and make life difficult (remember Jimmy Carter, who could have used his VP more than he did in that regard). A one-term Senator, like Obama was, was savvy enough to get the general idea as to how the place ran, but it takes awhile to get the nuance of the place. Biden had that down pat. He's a good advisor and sounding board, and he does seem to have a close and productive relationship with the President.

[Tatiana]

121. I think either Daschle or Durbin told him to run.

Whoever it was, clearly they were correct.

[MADem]

149. Daschle! That's the man!

He faded away, so he didn't come to mind as quick as he otherwise might have.

[treestar]

19. Unrec

How in the world is it even possible for a person to be "ineffective" as VP?

The Biden pick was an excellent decision. Obama had to fight accusations of "inexperience." Hillary was no more experienced than Obama. Biden was.

[unblock]

21. first, the veep choice is probably entirely irrelevant to a president's electoral chances.

second, has biden particularly screwed up? i actually think he's done a pretty good job.

i would argue that the only drawback to having chosen biden is that he might have been more effective remaining in the senate, though that would not have been for long anyway, i think.

at this point, though, there's no upside in switching.

[MineralMan]

23. Oh, wow! Are you telling me that Biden is the Vice President?

Why hasn't he instituted "world peace," for pete's sake?

Spreading FUD again? How nice.

[JDPriestly]

26. Joe Biden is the one positive in the Obama administration

The last thing we need is another corporate crony like Hillary Clinton. Please let up with this stuff.

If the Obama administration is not generating talk and spice it has no one to blame but Obama himself. He is a good administrator. Unfortunately his staff is not well qualified to do the job he is asking of them. Biden is not the problem. Biden has done a good job.

[lamp_shade]

27. THIS JOE BIDEN? > >

[Motown_Johnny]

44. +1

[babylonsister]

80. Perfect! Thanks for finding/remembering that. nt

[stlsaxman]

168. That's Our Joe!!!!

... my favorite campaign ad of all time-

[lunatica]

29. Too bad you didn't start your first sentence with "I think..." or "I believe..."

Not only do you not speak for me, but I think you actually don't even know what you're talking about. Biden has been an outstanding VP.

[MilesColtrane]

33. I'm not a huge Biden fan, but...

throwing him off the ticket in some misguided attempt to garner more votes would reveal Obama to be the kind of person who discards personal loyalty for a shot at a politically expedient gain.

I don't think Obama would do it even if he wanted to.

[gateley]

137. Agree - I AM a huge Biden fan but solely from a political approach, not a good move. Plus,

(it just occurs to me) that he knows so many of the people around the world, they may feel more confident w/him in that slot (although Hillary's pretty well known, too - just hasn't been in that position long enough to develop the relationships Joe has).

[Sky Masterson]

37. I love me some Joe.

.

[otohara]

40. Dick Cheney

spicy?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

42. I Rec'd this thread

just so I could UNrec it

[quinnox]

46. whatever n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

68. Cool.. does it show it in the stats?

I miss the unrecord myself but I do like to see who recomends shitty threads in the new format.

[bowens43]

48. where does this nonsense come from? nt

[lamp_shade]

62. Probably the same source pushing the "Hillary is behind the robocalls" meme.

[MADem]

107. A dark and smelly place, perhaps? nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

49. Remember his other first choice? Tim Kaine?

I'd take Biden any day over that piece of crap

Alan Grayson for VP.......We need no blood.

LOL

[CherokeeDem]

53. Ten Random Americans....

"I bet if you asked 10 random Americans in the street, many of them wouldn't even know who Joe Biden is, or could even name him as the current VP."

Unfortunately, I doubt if "10 random Americans in the street" would have a clue about much of anything but their favorite sports team or the latest Kim Kardashian debacle.

Vice President Biden has, in my opinion, been an excellent Vice President...serving his President well. As someone posted earlier...he serves at the pleasure of the President and should follow the President policies. However, I personally believe that Joe Bidne brings much to the table, and I was extremely pleased when Obama tapped him to be the VP. I also do not believe he has been very hidden; he has traveled a great deal on behalf of the US. I think he's done a great job.

[Peregrine Took]

54. My husband and I agree. It was definitely Obama's first mistake/disappointment for us.

I guess he wanted someone with international relations experience but Biden was even the wrong one for that choice.

Ever since he pilfered the words from Neal Kinnoch's speech

[quinnox]

72. I agree

Biden was a sucky pick indeed.

[MADem]

111. Neil KinnocK.

If it's still that upsetting to you, really, you might at least spell the Welshman's name right.

That was decades ago, back when JB still had his original hair. Talk about "Unforgiven!"

You do know that JFK pilfered his word famous "Ask Not..." phrase from what some say still is the finest-ever inaugural speech from the headmaster of his private school (Choate), don't you? Is he in your doghouse for that, too?

It was a common practice in politics to lift good material from others, give it a minor tweak, and make it one's own. The era of videotape put an end to that and Biden was the most notable casualty.

[gateley]

138. Bwah!

I KNEW someone would bring that up. It's so RELEVANT to the topic!

Why stop there -- what, no hair plug snarks? THOSE are always so creative and clever, too.

[JCMach1]

56. good grief he has done fine

for a job that ain't worth shite

[PatSeg]

57. Anyone who thinks Biden is an ineffective and weak presence

hasn't been paying attention. He may not be getting front page headlines, but he has been a very active part of this administration both domestically and in foreign relations. The man is rarely in one place for more than a day or two and is doing the job of several people.

[gateley]

139. I think you nailed it -- "hasn't been paying attention". nt

[PatSeg]

150. As a VP, he keeps a low profile

which is appropriate and he's done it with considerable grace and deference. I'm just amazed at how much he has done. Can't imagine where he gets the energy.

[kestrel91316]

60. I wish we still had UNREC.

[onenote]

61. Don't be coy. Tell us who Obama should have picked (other than HRC) and who should take Biden's spot

And make sure its someone that ten random Americans will know.

[quinnox]

69. I'm not trying to be coy

I don't care really who Obama might pick, just as long as he picks someone new. Hillary is simply the most prominent name being mentioned right now, so that is why I noted that.

[onenote]

122. I'm sorry, but that's a cop out.

You are very specific with your criticisms of Biden. But now it appears it doesn't matter who replaces him -- the only requirement is that it be someone "new." I doubt that you are really that uninterested in a Biden replacement. You'd be just as happy with Ben Nelson as with Dennis Kucinich? With George Clooney or Evan Bayh? Is it important that the selection be someone that ten random Americans would know? Is it important that it be someone that has some sort of track record? What sort of track record.

Sorry, saying Biden isn't the right guy and then ducking out from offering any suggestion (other than HRC) as a possible replacement is a cop out.

[quinnox]

127. As I said in my OP, one positive reason would be the excitement generated

by such a move. Who it is, is secondary to my argument. Ok, you put me on the spot though, let me think of some names. How about Bill Richardson? Or maybe Wes Clark? Or I don't know, John Kerry? I'm just throwing names out here now.

[gateley]

140. Have to disagree - the OP was NOT specific with critcisms of Biden at all! Didn't cite

a single instance.

[stlsaxman]

172. "Hillary is simply the most prominent name being mentioned right now..." Really?!?!?

By who? FOX NEWS? Rush? The GOP? NPR? FreeRepublic.com?

The White House?

Me thinks you've just pulled that out of your ass... 'cause it stinks.

[quinnox]

178. ever hear of Robert Reich?

He recently wrote a column on it, and he ain't no republican.

[stlsaxman]

185. Why didn't you say that in the first place?!?!?!

http://robertreich.org/post/14932718385

He's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! I wouldn't have called you all those names if you had simply opened the post with "Robert Reich says Clinton & Biden should switch jobs"...



oh- and you are dead wrong about Biden being ineffective as VP... and Reich says no such thing.

[lamp_shade]

65. Furthermore ladies and gentlemen > >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100285367

[MADem]

112. Since I couldn't unrec this load of tripe, I rec'd that link! nt

[Trajan]

66. More DU silliness

UNREC

Joe has been just fine as a VP.

[schmice]

71. He's still smarter than most.

Biden was the only candidate on the hustings who understood the truth about Iraq; a country that was formed in the 1930's by the British. He said that it should be split into three entities since he knew that the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis hate each other. He knew that if these factions were forced to be together that sectarian violence would not only continue, but increase. He was right.

[gateley]

141. And he was right when he advised Obama not to surge in Afghanistan. Sadly, his advice

wasn't followed then, either.

[krawhitham]

73. I see Pumas are back in style

[quinnox]

74. Incorrect

see my post #69 for more.

[Ichingcarpenter]

77. 'Why Edwards supporters should consider Hillary'

REMEMBER THAT THREAD YOU STARTED? back in the days?

Face it this is a Hillary thread, you know it, I know it
and DU knows it.

[quinnox]

85. wow, no I don't

You must have a really good memory, because I don't even remember that.

Anyway, most recently I also said I no longer am a Hillary fan because of how she cheer leaded for the Libyan intervention.

[Ichingcarpenter]

102. I did a search

you were quite a supporter back then.


Tim Kaine was his other choice for VP..... remember?

Tim fucking Kaine.... Biden fits Obama fine
this whole talk is stupid. The VP slot is for
suckers unless you are a Dick Cheney.

but hey...... its GD dissuasion.. feel free to go on.
Repbulicans scare the hell out of me and Democrats
are what they are. .... Our choice to prevent us plunging further into hell.... and I haven't been happy with most of them lately but its our only choice.

[Yavapai]

78. You are correct, Bidden shouldn't be Obama's vice president.

He should have been President!

I bet he wouldn't have turned out to be the capitulator in chief!

Also, I would not have voted for the ticket with Hillary in the VP spot. I am done with voting
for "Republican lite" types such as Obama and Bill Clinton.

Obama should follow the lead of President Lyndon Johnson, and not run for a second term. He should step aside for a progressive candidate that has a spine.

No more renditions!

End these endless, pointless wars!

We desperately need a single payer health care system!

No more tax breaks for the greedy wealthy class!

Attorney General Erik Holder should be out on his ass!

The entire Clinton clan should be out of power, forever!

Yes, Obama inherited an economic mess, but, so did FDR. FDR didn’t just continue with the class warfare and only talk tough when campaigning, he actually did something about the problems! That is what we voted obama into office for, not to continue the same old republican corporate policies!

Screw Obama and the Clinton crowd too!

[Dewey Finn]

95. You left out a few cliches.

Bankster!

Corporatist!

Truth to power!

Oligarchs!

V for Velveeta!
_____

You're welcome.

[Yavapai]

125. So Dewey, if I may ask,

What were you wanting, when you voted for Obama?

I was kind of hoping for more change than the spelling of the President's name from Bush to Obama.

[slackmaster]

81. I disagree. Biden is a real person who represents working class America. VPs are usually...

...invisible.

I bet if you asked 10 random Americans in the street, many of them wouldn't even know who Joe Biden is, or could even name him as the current VP.

The same could have been said of any VP during my lifetime. I was born in 1958 and have to think before I can name all of the VPs.

[ThomWV]

144. +1

[Max4Congress]

82. Well Sarah!

Well Sarah, you may want to restrict your comments to the Fox News blogs. Joe Biden is light years ahead of Dick “Dr. Death” Cheney, who ran the Bush administration from the underground bunkers. He pays attention to his immediate family, he cares for the general population and has added an important dimension to the Obama administration. Perhaps you would be better off staying out of this forum.

Max Martin
Democratic Congressional Candidate, Texas 36th District
Clear Lake City

[gateley]

142. Okay, Max, I'm moving to the 36th District in TX just to vote for you! You're obviously

the kind of rep we need!

Welcome to DU!

[juajen]

163. Who is Sarah? I need a post number to see what you are referring to.

Welcome to DU. Just a hint: Your post in answer to "Sarah" was a bit disrespectful. I am sure you couldn't have known that we do not call people out and accuse them of being righties, and we don't advise them to stay out of the forum. Of course, I cannot find the Sarah you are referring to. Perhaps she is in need of some advice too, but I don't know who she is. Perhaps you could elucidate?

[Max4Congress]

190. Not really a person

I was referring to Sarah Palin; not as a person, as an ideology.

[Union Scribe]

90. ...voting is a popularity contest, yes...nt

[Union Scribe]

100. That would have been a better argument

to make. The one you chose, not so much.

[Union Scribe]

119. It's just for future reference

In case you're ever tempted to argue again that election politics aren't about popularity.

[grantcart]

86. You just made the deadline for worst post of 2011

Last edited Thu Dec 29, 2011, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

The value of the Vice President is in giving him confidential assessments of Capital Hill and legislative strategy.

Something none of us have access to.

[cliffordu]

91. LOL. Tell the class what you really feel, my friend.....

[quinnox]

101. I feel honored

lol

[grantcart]

124. lol

Good response to my rather intemperate response.

[Union Scribe]

87. What's with the vehemence in the replies?

The push against this OP, especially that along the lines of "this is a new low for DU!", is way out of proportion to what is said in the OP. It's just an opinion, folks.

[quinnox]

105. Thanks for the defense, but its nothing really

I'm used to the silly hyperbole by now, lol.

I can take it, I have a sense of humor about it.
Sometimes I am grinning when I see some of the ridiculous over the top replies.

[gateley]

143. I'd agree with a previous poster who suggested it might have been more prudent

if you'd prefaced the statement with "In my opinion.." or "I feel that..." or something. I always respond negatively to such Statements As Facts (especially about Biden! ) because we EACH view things differently.

[Max4Congress]

88. Yo, Yavapai

The only way for President Obama, or any "Thinking" President to make any real progressive progress in Washington, is to have a filibuster proof Congress. The left set on its backside in 2010 and the crazy people handed it to us on a stick. No one can have everything they want but if you work hard and stay persistent you will at least end up with what you need. It's like the song. Do everything you can to make sure your congressional district sends a Democratic representative to Congress in 2012 and maybe, just maybe things will start looking a little better to you.

Max Martin
Democratic Congressional Candidate, Texas 36th District
Clear Lake City

[Yavapai]

128. Max, I do somewhat agree with what you say.

It seems to me though, that if he continued to speak to the American people in the same manner that he campaigned, he would have had an irresistible wave of support, and the ass-hat Republicans would have had to capitulate to the will of the people. Instead he tried to pacify the right-wing and bring about bi-partisanship. It didn't work for President carter, it didn't work for President Clinton and it isn't working for President Obama. If I am wrong on this, please explain why the Republican congress capitulated on the jobs bill. If all I can expect out of our Democratic leadership is more right-wing legislation, then why should I support him?

I worked in the campaigns of JFK, LBJ, RFK and each Democratic Presidential Campaign including Clinton’s in 1988. But not in Clinton’s second campaign nor in Al Gore’s (mistake on my part). I do not expect to do anything for Obama, for the same reason as Clinton.

Sadly, our Democrat congresswoman (Anne Kirkpatrick) lost to the Tea-Party candidate Paul Gosar. I really hope to see that change back in 2012. I will be working towards that end.

I also hope that you win the seat in congress that you are going after! I also hope that you live up to your promises made during the campaign instead of just kind of going along with the Repubs in hope of broader support to get re-elected.

Best wishes...

[Max4Congress]

191. You don't always get what you want, but you often get what you need.

Bill Clinton and Barak Obama were more or less dealt the same hand. From the time they each took office, they were bombarded by the highly organized "Destroy America" monster known as the Libertarian Party. We saw it at Watergate, the Whitewater distraction, the Monica Lewinski setup and now the Fox News/AM Talk Radio thought control machine orchestrated by Charles and David Koch.

Without a filibuster proof Congress, President Obama has made as much progress as is possible. He has put his own agenda and reputation aside, for the welfare of those in this country who are really hurting. To the 50% living in poverty, this isn't a game. It's waking up Christmas morning with no gifts for the kids. It's going to bed hungry so your children don't have to. Rome wasn't built in a day and it's taken 45 years for the Libertarian movement to take control of the GOP and begin to dismantle the Federal Government. And, it's going to take several voting cycles and consistent hard work to reverse the trend. If you really feel strong about your beliefs, you have to have the staying power of say, Nelson Mandela!

[cliffordu]

89. There is so many things in error in your OP that I cannot take the time

to address them all. Let's just say if I could unrec this thing, I surely would.

[Union Scribe]

98. A general piece of advice to those missing un-rec

and stating so in this thread:

What you seem to want is a way to express disapproval of the OP. You have that, it's called a post. It's the thing you used to instead complain about lack of un-rec.

[cliffordu]

129. Thanks for the advice.

[lunatica]

173. What do you think they're doing by mentioning they miss the unrec?

Why they're actually expressing their disapproval in their post!!!

[justiceischeap]

94. I only agree with this for one reason--none of which is what you stated

The only reason I see Joe as a bad choice for VP in 2012 is that I don't see him being a viable 2016 candidate. Maybe that's not a bad thing but generally, you get a feel for how term from a VP would go as President. Instead, if we win 2012, who do we have lined up for 2016?

That is the only reason Biden could be seen as a bad choice. He may not get the press that Gore or Cheney did but he's a policy wonk, especially when it comes to foreign affairs. I think being as inexperienced as Obama was on the national stage, Biden was a great choice.

[musiclawyer]

174. Yours is the best post in this thread

2012 is all about Obama. Biden neither helps not hurts. By 2016 Biden will BE Obama and the country will be sick of Obama even if things are going well. That's my concern. On the other hand if Obama chose a real liberal / anti wall streeter heir apparent in 2012 who can play big rooms on their own, then that is a game changer I think that line of thinking is behind the Hillay C talk. But she is not someone I see taking on wall street and citizens united. Whoever wants to win 2016 and go down in history as transformative must.

[totodeinhere]

96. Not only do I love Joe I would enthusiastically support him for the 2016 nomination should he

choose to run. And I think he will.

[justiceischeap]

103. He'll be 73 in 2016

I personally believe that's too old to be President of the US. Look at how Obama has aged in the last 3 years and Reagan showed signs of senility during his Presidency. I know Joe's momma lived a long time but I just don't see how someone that old could hold up. Who knows, maybe I'm a closest ageist.

[totodeinhere]

106. No, it's not ageism to say that. It will depend on how Joe feels and a lot of other factors.

You better believe that if he did run the age issue would be thoroughly vetted.

[treestar]

114. Obama seems to have aged in the past three years

But Joe looks the same!

[FrenchieCat]

99. Meanwhile Republicans are fucking scary ass crazy,

and there are enough fucking scary ass crazy folks in this country, to end up with one of their picks, and whomever that crazy asshole picks for VP.....and guarantee that it will be someone crazy.

But keep on focusing on whatever you feel is dire and relevant.....
cause it appears you've got nothing but time and opinions on your hand.

Thank goodness I have a life!

[quinnox]

108. nice to see you too frenchie

heh

[totodeinhere]

109. I also disagree with the OP as I indicated upthread. But that's no reason to cast personal

aspersions against them. And you have no real way of knowing how much time they may or may not have on their hands.

[Union Scribe]

115. Why make it so personal? nt

[quinnox]

116. I think some of the more devoted Obama supporters take things very personally

when someone suggests Obama has made mistakes or hasn't been perfect in his decisions. That is the only way I can explain some of the more colorful reactions in this thread.

[Union Scribe]

117. And not just in this thread, that's the other weird thing.

They've gone on a rampage with copycat threads. Tragically, none of them are funny.

[quinnox]

118. Agreed

copycat threads are usually pretty lame as a rule. They were locked on DU2 as a matter of routine, maybe that should be the common practice.

[Greybnk48]

113. Disagree 100%. I LOVE Joe Biden! (unrec)

Bullshit indeed.

[undeterred]

120. The only better choice Obama has made was Hillary Clinton for Secretary of State.

That was his best choice. Joe Biden for VP was his second best choice.

[Tx4obama]

123. President Obama has already asked Biden to run with him in 2012 and Joe said: YES.

President Obama AND Joe Biden will be doing some campaign events in IOWA.
Obama is supposed to do some Skype type events in Iowa, and the news didn't say what type of event Biden will be doing.

Since Obama AND BIDEN are already 'campaigning' - there's no way in hell that Obama will dump Biden for Hillary!

All the rumors/talk of Obama dumping Biden is RIDICULOUS!

[gateley]

131. You couldn't be more wrong. nt

[DeathToTheOil]

132. Couldn't Disagree More

And you're dreaming if you're thinking Obama-Clinton 2012.

[eShirl]

133. whaaat??/?

"I bet if you asked 10 random Americans in the street, many of them wouldn't even know who Joe Biden is, or could even name him as the current VP."

So? Try asking them any other question having to do with government, like what the 3 branches are.


"This guy brings nothing to the table as vice president"

HA!
hahahahaha

pffft

[Bucky]

135. You punks git off my lawn!

Post of the day, Quinnox! Please, don't ever change!

[ThomWV]

145. I sure do miss the "Unrecommend" feature, this post reminds me why.

[slay]

146. Well, he's no Dick Cheney, that's for sure

thank god!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

155. No, he hasn't.

[FarLeftFist]

157. Huh? Joe Biden is great! (as VP)

[Honeycombe8]

158. I wouldn't advertise your ignorance of Biden, if I were you.

You clearly aren't familiar with Biden, his place at the inner table, or his relationship with the Prez.

You might want to start by reading Biden's bio, then move on to Biden's record in the White House, to the extent you can find it. He has played a key role in the administration, behind the scenes. He is a key foreign policy advisor and handler. Clinton's SOS role is to effect the White House's foreign policy. Biden's role is in part to MAKE that foreign policy. Both important.

I've heard it said that there is no one in the U.S. more informed on foreign policy matters than Biden.

[tammywammy]

160. You obviously know nothing of Biden

Shirtless Biden Washes Trans Am In White House Driveway



WASHINGTON—Taking advantage of the warm spring weather Monday, Vice President Joe Biden parked his 1981 Trans Am in the White House driveway, removed his undershirt, and spent a leisurely afternoon washing the muscle car and drinking beer.

"This baby just needs a little scrub down," said Biden, addressing a tour group as he tucked the sweat-covered top into the belt loop of his cutoff jean shorts. "Gotta get her looking good so I can impress the chicks when I'm cruising down Pennsylvania [Avenue]."

White House aides said that Biden pulled into the driveway shortly before noon, the chorus of Night Ranger's &quot You Can Still) Rock In America" blaring from his car's stereo. According to witnesses, Biden spent several minutes maneuvering the Trans Am into the perfect spot, and was observed drumming his fingers on the steering wheel until the song came to a close.

The shirtless 66-year-old then entered the executive residence and greeted employees with a round of high fives and a variety of nicknames.
-snip-

http://www.theonion.com/articles/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-dri,2718/

That's a man we need as VP!

[JVS]

161. I disagree. Biden is one of the few Obama appointments that I don't loathe. If Biden goes, we'd...

end up with Rahm being groomed for the presidency in 2016.

[Fearless]

164. I think that we need someone in the position who isn't divisive...

So that's why we have him. Would you like the pols to start vetting (ahem attacking) a new VP candidate? The focus should be on Republican stupidity not on the Democratic Party.

I say keep him. Don't rock the boat for the hell of it.

[lonestarnot]

165. Where in the fuck is the god damned unrec!

[Lil Missy]

166. Sez who?

[sendero]

169. Biden is not the problem here.

.... Obama is the fucking problem.

If Obama were more like Biden we'd be better off. Fact is, the VP job is "worth a bucket of warm spit" - the ONLY thing that is considered is "what if the president died?"

And BTW is wasn't a "gimme" election because of McCain, it was a "gimme" election because even idiots had enough of the DictatorTot.

[spanone]

171. t3

[LanternWaste]

176. your most erudite, sourced, and thought-out editorial...

I imagine Biden (as will many other readers of this, your most erudite, sourced, and investigated editorial) will allow it the approximate amount of both consideration and regard it warrants...

Your tea-leaves, prophecies and prognostication are founded well in reality.

[CreekDog]

189. are you complementing that empty screed against Biden?

or did I miss a smiley?

the OP didn't really say anything of substance.

[MjolnirTime]

177. But he's going to be VP for 4 more years, isn't he?

[quinnox]

181. Maybe

I can't foretell the future.

[MjolnirTime]

186. I can. He's in.

[BootinUp]

182. Joe Biden took a tough and thankless job really, and with no

ambition to turn it into the top job later I assume.

He has done everything asked of him as far as I can tell, and has done a fine job.

I am not in favor of forcing him out with any kind of public pressure at all. So a virtual unrec for your post.

[quinnox]

183. virtual unrec it is

I can respect that.

[WI_DEM]

184. I think he has been a wonderful, thoughtful and effective VP

[Beacool]

187. And pray tell, why would Hillary want to be VP anyway?

She's more than qualified to be president. Besides, Hillary is tired and will be staying out of politics for a while.

[CreekDog]

188. OP is saying Biden hasn't done anything and nobody knows who he is

That the OP wrote 4+ paragraphs to state those two things pretty much undermines that they actually know what they're talking about.