Dear "There's no difference between the two parties" people...

[Yavin4]

Do you fucking see a difference now?

[still_one]

9. ah, so let me see, Medicare, Social Security, the Civil Rights Act, support for Roe V Wade,

environment, equal treatment under law for same-sex couples, Racial and religious profiling is wrong, no federal gay marriage ban, Support affirmative action, pass hate crime legislation to include gays, lead the fight for the ERA and equal employment, Democrats ARE the party of public education, against vouchers, Expand Family and Medical Leave Law; end marriage penalty, Improve child-care and fully fund Head Start, no to Citizens United, and that is just the start

[SaschaHM]

17. What are you talking about?

You act like no Democratic politician currently in office contributed to those things. Were you in a coma during the Obama years or are you still drinking the primary koolaid?

[Chasstev365]

28. I'm talking about raising hell about Trump!

Between Russia and these Executive Orders, there is a FEEIBLE outrage from our elected Democrats!

Tell me: if the shoe was on the other foot, what would the GOP be doing? POLITICS IS PRECEPTION!

[BainsBane]

89. Senators are at airports representing their constituents

on the protest lines. Where are you? What are you doing?

[Cha]

100. BULL.. you're not paying ATTENTION

Standing Against blotus and FOR our Democracy!!

Link to tweet

the link to your post to my list!

NYC_Liberal's Awesome List of our AMAZING DEMS!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8556227

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Patty Murray has tweeted a few times:

I urge this Administration to work to further our national security, not merely target individuals based on their religion or nationality.
98 replies 129 retweets 433 likes

So much of what makes America great is our diversity.
12 replies 89 retweets 328 likes

America has long been a place of safety for people around the world fleeing religious, political, and gender-based persecution and violence.

President Trump has slammed the door on thousands of people—many of whom are women & children fleeing horrific violence.
147 replies 680 retweets 1,132 likes

And just in the last 30 minutes, Maria Cantwell:

Sen. Maria Cantwell ?@SenatorCantwell
Actions by the administration that discriminate on basis of religion or country of origin betray our tradition of diversity & acceptance
41 replies 56 retweets 141 likes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028554125

Link to tweet

And, Senator Gillibrand..

Link to tweet

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8556143

Our Dems!

[still_one]

20. We all are Chass. This is the worst I have felt about the U.S., and that includes

the periods during the Vietnam and the Civil Rights protests, but at least in my mind during those periods I felt there was hope.

I don't feel that now. The march was amazing, but as you said, some of the Democrats in Congress seem to be dragging their feet. Hopefully, we the people will turn that around

[guillaumeb]

58. During the Vietnam era many Democrats were essentially pro-war.

I feel this could be the start of people getting energized and organized and possibly making a real change again. But, as in the Vietnam years, there will be repression, and pushback, by the rich, right wing thieves.

[still_one]

60. true

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

76. Context matters

Soviet expansionism was a thing and it was dangerous.

[guillaumeb]

77. Soviet and Chinese expansionism is so different from US expansionism?

All three are power politics. And the threat from the USSR and China was far overstated.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

79. I dunno ask all the people starved and murdered by communists in the 20th century

[guillaumeb]

84. Ask all of the people murdered by the US Empire over the 20th century. eom

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

87. Sounds good, come up with a number and we can compare bodycounts

[BainsBane]

93. The numbers are very high

At least half a million since the end of WWII in Latin America alone.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

94. Red Team for the win.

Since the communists are somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred million.

[BainsBane]

95. How do you figure?

I'm not trying to minimize this at all. I would like to know where this number comes from and the countries involved.

[BainsBane]

90. Which is precisely the time

That crowd wants to return to, the height of American empire. They ignore it, but it is the time they point to. The prosperity of the white male bourgeoisie was financed through empire, through the overthrow of sovereign governments and the appropriation of natural resources.
Dependency Theory and Worlds Systems Theory analyzes those relationships in which the US sat at the center of a global system of exploitation. The complaints about "globalization" aren't about globalization at all but the decline of American empire, the flattening of global relationships and the diminished ability of the US to exploit foreign labor for the benefit of a minority of its population--because the majority never did benefit from the system some on progressives are so anxious to see revived. .

[BainsBane]

91. I agree

and the same goes for Russian expansionism today.

[guillaumeb]

97. True. The same power politics no matter the flag.

But saying that causes some cognitive dissonance among apologists for empire.

[BainsBane]

98. I've noticed it fron different perspectives

Including people defending Russian annexation of the Ukraine in the name of "peace," as though death doesn't matter if Americans aren't doing the killing.

The justification of US, or capitalist, empire is more familiar to us, but the other is also disturbing.

[guillaumeb]

102. I defend no empires.

Nor do I defend power politics that inevitably leaves numerous civilian casualties.

[NCTraveler]

15. Truly just the start. +1 nt

[SaschaHM]

18. And then the poster tried to play it off like no one in the CURRENT party had an effect on that.

The epitome of that both sides bullshit spreading RW/alt-left filth on a democratic messaging board.

[Blue_true]

26. Yeah, I am disgusted also.

After years of clear differences between Democrats and republicans, it is beyond me that anyone believes the no difference bullshit.

[BainsBane]

92. I saw one

(now FFR) insist Democrats had tried to privatize Social Security, which is a total lie.

[Blue_true]

24. SO.

You have no concern about the clear human rights violations that Trump is committing? You have no concern that his actions could destroy the economy with a trade war? You have no concern about Mexican immigrants who made a life in this country years ago and are law abiding?


When a person go to the poll to vote, many layers of differences exist between Republican's and democrats if people aren't so far up on their high horse that they can't see the differences.

[geek tragedy]

54. If you hate Democrats so much what the fuck are you doing here? nt

[JI7]

2. they don't care. they like what trump is doing

The no difference bs is done to hurt democrats so republicans can win

[Fearless]

3. Nothing is so black and white

If you feel that the Democratic party in the last ten years has helped you then you are privileged, because it isn't true for everyone. Count your blessings. Some have seen their standard of living decrease regardless. Better than the Republican party? Sure. But still not good for many.

[NastyRiffraff]

5. NOBODY claimed the Democratic Party was perfect

if you want perfection, watch baseball and hope for a perfect game.

Everybody KNOWS the Democratic party isn't perfect; please stop implying that was the point of the OP. It's fucking black and white that we are looking into the abyss now, as opposed to a decent administration headed by a smart, caring woman.

Who the hell are you to say I or anyone else is "privileged" because Democrats have helped me, and many others? Ye gods.

Yes, you probably ARE one of the ones who claimed there was "no difference" between the candidates. That's why I won't listen to ANYTHING you say.

[LiberalFighter]

19. There are some people that refuse to open their eyes because

they think they are all that matter.

[Blue_true]

29. Yes. Sadly. nt

[Fearless]

42. Take your anger out on someone else.

[NastyRiffraff]

81. Yes, indeed.

I'm done with you.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Are They More Likely...

...to prosper under Dems or Repukes?
The answer is obvious whether utopia is achieved or not

[dawg]

7. You speak as if the Democratic Party has actually been in charge the last ten years.

Other than two brief years from 2009-2010, we have been under Republican government, with a Democratic President unable to do much more than block the worst of their initiatives.

[Amimnoch]

67. Even those 2 years broke fillibuster records. Nt.

[JI7]

10. it has. california is better off than states that vote republican

[Fearless]

43. To be fair that is historically true.

My point is the lesser of two evils is a terrible argument. Even in California, or here in MA, our standard of living is crumbling.

[JI7]

47. hillary wasnt evil. the ones who say that usually want republicans to win

California and mass have better minimum wage and other worker benefits.

The problem is getting something done at naTional level and it's republicans who prevent it.

[JI7]

72. 12 is a start and a really good one. most americans including minimum wage earners

Would not support something much higher right away.

Locsl and state can still pass something higher.

Majority of white people oppose govt progrsms becausr they see it as black people taking from them.

If you want more liberal economic policy deal with the bigotry first.

[BainsBane]

96. and now we have a pres who opposes any minimum wage

But the problem is the Democrats?!

[still_one]

11. really? Expanding Medicaid, subsidies for the ACA for those with less income, support for

gay rights, affirmative actions, civil rights, against citizens united, a woman's right to choose, the Lilly Ledbetter Act, etc. only helped those "privileged poor"

It is NOT just "better than the republicans, it is light years better than the republicans, and this false equivalency is bullshit

[manicraven]

27. Also, Dems have been better for the environment, too, which is a critical issue.

[Fearless]

45. Yet the standard of living in liberal states is declining as it is in republican.

[uponit7771]

22. What.... The .... Fuck...planet have some people been living on?!?!

[Blue_true]

32. The no difference people are around.

Their leaders, Nader and Stein have gone missing as Trump destroys everything in sight, but have no worry, Stein and Nader will crawl out of the swamp in 2018 and 2020 to attack Democrat candidates - despite horrors caused by republicans.

[sweetloukillbot]

62. Maybe they're hiding out of guilt at having helped elect a monster?

Spineless cowards, the lot of them.

[starshine00]

64. I don't understand it.

I have been reading here a very long time and logged on because of this thread. I deleted my social media lately. On facebook because I can't stand Zuckerberg anymore and I just deleted twitter because of the 'no difference' people. Except what I was hearing a lot on twitter was the unbelievable 'clinton is worse than trump' b.s. It is mind-boggling to me that people believe this but maybe they just saw him as a 'reality show star' and were in middle school during the Bush years so maybe didn't understand what happens when you give a megalomaniac unbridled power. I can't stand hearing it anymore. I kept losing it and getting blocked so finally I deleted it all. Maybe I just need to be somewhere where people are reasonably sane for a while.

[blue cat]

82. It works for me.

This place is my haven. I live in a red state in a red town. No Facebook for me.

[Hekate]

23. Holy Batcrap

[pnwmom]

30. Black people voted overwhelmingly for Hillary. By your theory they must be privileged.

In 2008 the US economy was shedding 800,000 jobs PER MONTH. President Obama turned that around. Everyone is better off than if we had slipped into another Great Depression.

[Fearless]

46. But are they better than 10 years ago? 20? 30?

Regardless of party, the middle class is slipping away. Democrats have better ideas and have done more to help people, but we are STILL declining. It's time for Democrats to grow a backbone and stand up for Americans.

[JI7]

52. because many people still vote republican. they like muslim bans

[Fearless]

55. Many people vote against their best interests

[JI7]

57. no. it means their top interest is racism and other bigotry

So thst are voting their interest when they support candidates that want to hurt certain groups.

[dsc]

78. actually black wealth did increase in that time

and the wage gap between them and whites was drastically reduced.

[BainsBane]

88. They are a lot worse off right now

With the rise of hate crimes, voter disenfranchisement, and rounding up US citizens and permanent residents for deportation. THAT is the fucking point. We are dealing with fascism, while you whine about the decline of white male privilege. White men are the ONLY group who is worse off now than in the days you think were so great. Try asking people of color what they think. Do they long to return to Jim Crow, when some think the Democratic Party was so great? Or would they prefer to return to three months ago before the fascists were unleashed on America? The fact is they loved the president you malign.

10 years ago, the Bush financial crisis was looming. 20 years ago Bill Clinton was president, and we know the crap you've said about him. 30 years ago, Reagan was president. Is that the sweet spot you seek to return to? So much for progressivism.

It's time to be honest about what you are lamenting the demise of. It's not the "middle class." It's white male privilege. Average incomes have not declined over previous decades. In fact, last year saw the largest jump in a generation. White men still earn more than virtually everyone else, but not as much more as they feel entitled to. That is the genesis of your false claims about the decline in income of the middle class. You don't even cite numbers because they don't support your claims.

That you even raise this shit now show in the face of what is happening is disgusting. The country is rapidly descending into an authoritarian state, yet you make excuses.

[frazzled]

34. This is not about you

This is about everybody. Your fellow citizens are in danger of loosing their Medicare and Medicaid, their ACA plans, their public schools and much much more. Your press is at risk of being denied First Amendment Rights. Refugees escaping for humanitarian reasons who have cleared the security vetting process are being sent back to dangerous war zones. Our cities are being threatened with loss of federal funds if they don't send their police out to round up undocumented workers. The Supreme Court is about to be filled with an anti-abortion zealot, so your fellow women's rights are at risk. Environmental and safety regulations are on the table for gutting. And this is just the beginning.

None of this—none—would be happening under a Democratic administration. And you are wrong: after decades of flatlining, incomes began to rise across all income sectors of the American public under the Obama administration, even the lowest; and poverty levels hit their lowest levels in many years. Trends that began in the early 1980s were finally beginning to reverse themselves.

So yes, it's pretty damned black and white--if you care about your fellow citizens, refugees in need, public education, the environment, food and work safety, wages and incomes, national security, and all that. If you don't see this, then you're purposefully not looking, and you are not liberal-minded.

[Fearless]

49. At no point have I disagreed with you

We are BETTER off yes. But we are still hurting. We can and need to be doing more. The middle class of this country is eroding regardless of which party seems to gain power. Democrats need to stand up and fight for what is right for everyone.

[Blue_true]

86. The middle class is eroding and will keep

Eroding because smart machines are taking the jobs that once underpinned the middleclass. Smart machines will keep taking jobs, the trend has accelerated during the last twenty years and is only increasing at a faster rate. The increasing use of smart machines is what is driving income inequality because only people or companies that have the money to buy and maintain smart machines gain income and wealth, wiping out small players and workers during the process. Government has failed to get ahead of the problem by redesigning social support systems and encouraging higher hourly pay and job sharing by companies.

[guillaumeb]

61. Nice points that provoked a firestorm.

Given that US working class people have suffered under 35 years of wage stagnation, given that personal indebtedness is up and savings are down, given that incarceration levels are up and job security is down, your point is quite valid.

And neither you nor Chasstev said that both parties are the same.

I think a lot of the anger I have read at DU over the past 3 months is fear-based. Some of the posts sound almost apocalyptic in their tone.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

75. Actually it is that black and white

Yes, I am privileged, obscenely so. But I have never cast a vote to hurt other people, which is what Republicans do in the most deliberate way possible.

[Cha]

101. this is Black and White.. anyone who doesn't see the difference

is an idiot like jill stein.

snip//

"US Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has said that her supporters should "absolutely not" vote for Hillary Clinton to stop a Donald Trump presidency, even in a swing state.


In an interview with Mehdi Hasan, host of Al Jazeera's Upfront, Stein said that Clinton "is not different enough" from the New York real estate businessman, to enable her or the Democratic Party "to save your job, save your life, or save the planet."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/jill-stein-hillary-trump-presidency-160928210338543.html

The "Greens" helped get a Climate Change Denier in the WH.. they must be so fucking proud.

And, you're gd right the Democratic Party has helped me and Millions over the last 8 years when Obama was President.

The best President in my life time.. thank you very much.

[Trust Buster]

4. BINGO.........short, concise and to the point.

[larry budwell]

8. Right On

We are paying because of stupid Americans.

[pnwmom]

12. And there are still people here defending Jill Stein and calling her a progressive. nt

[Blue_true]

36. Where is Jill Stein? In Witness Protection? nt.

[workinclasszero]

85. She's counting all those millions sent to her post-election

[HassleCat]

48. Yes, she is progressive, but so what?

The Greens helped Trump, probably. Their run at the presidency made no sense at all, and just looked like a random bunch of people jumping around in a dark room. So it was stupid and misguided, but it does not mean Stein is not progressive.

[JI7]

59. she wanted trump to win so she is not progressive

[tecelote]

13. Who Should Our Government Work For?

[Mr.Bill]

16. That's the fundamental difference.

Republicans are sheep that think elected officials are our "leaders" implying it is our duty to be loyal and to follow them.

Maybe I don't speak for all Democrats, but I see our elected officials as my employees and they are duty-bound to take orders from us.

[Rex]

21. It is too late for them, Trump is in office.

They will drink the Kool Aid, all he has to do is ask.

[betsuni]

25. K&R

[delisen]

31. Selling off our public lands ! we are about to lose up to 3.3 million acres

if Chaffetz and the Republican Party gets to sell off our public lands to their low bid billionaire string-pullers

These are the people who want something for nothing. They can't or won't ever compete on a level playing field.

Can't imagine ny of of candidates doing this.

[Blue_true]

44. And Jill Stein, the self appointed "environment"

Candidate has gone missing. I guess protesting at a pipeline is only important to Stein if she could use that to attempt to show up Hillary before November 8.

[sweetloukillbot]

63. She did Putin's work and got her big payoff from the recounts n/t

[mcar]

33. I'm guessing they don't

[Blue_true]

40. Heading into November 8, I pleaded with the

No Difference people to open their eyes. A man that was a clear racist and woman hater could become President. But nothing mattered to them but the one or two issues that the angrily posted about.

[mcar]

56. They were pure

They voted their "conscience." We are all paying the price.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

66. I pointed out to his supporters that Trump was a sociopath, with links to...

what his biographers said/wrote about him.

Their reaction was basically, "Whatever! They're obviously vengeful about something."

Edit: Not here on DU, but elsewhere.

[Charles Bukowski]

35. The differences between the Democratic and Republican

parties have never been more stark.

Bernie Bros simply bought into the reich-wing propaganda hook line, and sinker.

[DavidDvorkin]

37. Those people return every four years

They never do learn to tell the difference.

[bravenak]

38. Seriously

[HassleCat]

39. One difference we might want to recognize.

They are willing to lie, cheat and steal to gain power. We shouldn't do that, but we could try to organize, recruit, and dare to stand up for something. If people haven't appreciated that we are different from them, perhaps we could remind them of our core values, assuming our party leaders don't go all squishy if we stand for something.

[Blue_true]

65. Look, the policy difference have pounded

People in the face for 16 years, Bush getting us into hell and President Obama working against massive republican obstruction to to save then stabilize the economy. President Obama made the boldest improvements in environmental policy since Nixon created the EPA. An enormous amount of progress has happened because we had and have Democrat politicians. I don't understand why the no difference people are so blind.

[HassleCat]

68. Probably because we haven't spoken about policy in human terms.

Here is whar clean air and water mean to your family. We have safer cars and roads so your kids won't die in a fiery wreck. We don't start phony wars that kill your children and deploy your mom for years at a time. And so on. We let the jerkoff party trick us into playing their game, and we tell voters how much we care about patriotism and opportunity, etc. No we don't. We care about people. These "sacred American values" serve people, not the other way around. I'm not sure we even agree on that, but it's really whst makes us different from them.

[JI7]

70. that's bs. candidates have spoken about them. but they prefer muslim bans

They voted their interest which is white supremecy

[HassleCat]

71. Well, we're screwed then.

And so is our country.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

41. K&R nt

[Buckeye_Democrat]

50. I like Noam Chomsky a lot, but he talks that way too much as well. At least he...

endorsed Clinton over Trump! He was sensible enough to see a BIG difference there.

He also called the GOP the "Most Dangerous Organization in Human History" a few months ago.

[Kingofalldems]

51. I remember seing that posted here daily--hell hourly--- and it made my blood boil.

It's a damnable lie.

And I will alert on any post that makes that claim from here on out.

[Lanius]

69. Less than 60 percent of eligible Americans voted in the election

Most of those who don't vote say it doesn't matter who is elected. Well I think this time around has proven that wrong -- the parties are NOT identical and elections do matter. People who sit out elections need to start giving a damn and voting, especially in the midterms. Some of them would have voted for Trump, of course, but I believe many more would have voted for Hillary and we wouldn't be in this predicament right now.

[wildeyed]

73. And about that revolution.....

This is what they look like. Scary, chaotic, exhausting with unintended consequences.

[TerrieDave02]

74. Greatest Statement in Weeks...

Your post is spot-on.

[democrank]

80. Time to come together against Trump

who presents an immense danger and we'd better do something.

Stop fighting, start resisting.

[Justice]

83. Needs to be said over and over. Thank you.

[Cha]

99. Mahalo, Yavin!! That was a stupid jill stein meme, too..

snip//

"US Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has said that her supporters should "absolutely not" vote for Hillary Clinton to stop a Donald Trump presidency, even in a swing state.


In an interview with Mehdi Hasan, host of Al Jazeera's Upfront, Stein said that Clinton "is not different enough" from the New York real estate businessman, to enable her or the Democratic Party "to save your job, save your life, or save the planet."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/jill-stein-hillary-trump-presidency-160928210338543.html

[Gothmog]

103. There is a huge difference

[Cha]

104. A proponent of that.. Dangerous#1 Dangerous#2 Dangerous#3 stein on trump & Hillary

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

they damn well will.. sitting on their millions while the Planet goes to shite and people go hungry and Immigrants banned from the US by "the bumbler" according the ever present idiot, jill stein