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ElkeH

(105 posts)
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 12:32 AM Jan 2017

They are vicious

I live in Texas and therefore it is to be expected that I have some acquaintances on social media, mostly people whom I also know in real life, who are conservative or even outright Trump worshipers.

They loved the news of Trump suspending the refugee programs and trying to bar visitors and immigrants from certain Muslim countries. I was saddened but not really surprised.

But what struck me most was their reaction to the possibility of even some greencard holders not being permitted back into the country. "If they love America, why aren't they citizens?" was one of many responses. "Non-citizens have no rights!" was another. Of course some even thought that resident alien screening under President Obama was a big joke compared to the Bush administration. "See if you can pass the test this time, haha!"

I felt sick to my stomach. I came here from Germany in the early 90s. I am an American citizen but I was a greencard holder for a while. Some people never even have a shot at a greencard in the first place. I was lucky enough that my step father is an American and wanted to sponsor me and my mother. But even with a greencard it always feels like you're "guilty until proven innocent," as if you had to prove that you were worthy of the status.

My memory of visiting the ICE office in San Antonio for the first time was that it felt more like an interrogation than anything else. The immigration officer did not just want samples of mail to show my parents lived at the same address, he even compared their house keys to make sure they were the same. He was even surprised that my mother and I were relatively fluent in English. I had already been studying for years.

This was during the Bush Sr administration, where anti-immigrant sentiment wasn't anywhere near as strong as now. Nevertheless my father sometimes became angry because he felt like we were treated as second-class citizens by ICE for not having been born here. But my mother and I always told him that the troubles were worth it. Germany was and is a great place, but we were very happy to be here instead and we counted ourselves as Americans.

The same goes for countless greencard holders from Muslim countries, as well as for people who do not have permanent resident alien status yet but hope to get it some day. Yet Trump supporters think people are worth less if they did not have the luck, because where you are born is nothing but a matter of chance, to have been born in the US. Some even think being a greencard holder means you don't love America enough to become a citizen, because the idiots do not realize that you have to have a greencard for a certain number of years before you can even apply for citizenship.

I bring this up to again remind people that Trump is not acting on his own. There is a disturbing number of people all across the country supporting his efforts and they are vicious.



18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
They are vicious (Original Post) ElkeH Jan 2017 OP
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Jan 2017 #1
It's all for show... Wounded Bear Jan 2017 #2
They are vicious Glamrock Jan 2017 #3
Uhm, I thought the German schools make English a requirement. Doreen Jan 2017 #4
Correct ElkeH Jan 2017 #7
My boyfriend is German and was there until he was 14 and even the German Doreen Jan 2017 #9
English is standard starting in the fifth grade DFW Jan 2017 #11
Is this an opportunity for education? califootman Jan 2017 #5
I have tried ElkeH Jan 2017 #6
Thank you for sharing this, ElkeH. brer cat Jan 2017 #8
KNR secondwind Jan 2017 #10
Thank you for sharing LittleGirl Jan 2017 #12
welcome to DU! LittleGirl Jan 2017 #13
Thanks for sharing your experience, Elke Hekate Jan 2017 #14
I've known 3 people from Iraq who were trying to relocate here. dimediego Jan 2017 #15
Welcome (back) to DU!! I see you put up your first post 2 years ago and then disappeared. StevieM Jan 2017 #16
Welcome to DU! youkoso! Irashaimase yuiyoshida Jan 2017 #17
I purged all the repukes MFM008 Jan 2017 #18

Wounded Bear

(63,776 posts)
2. It's all for show...
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 12:37 AM
Jan 2017

I am sure that after some fights, Trump will do the 'magnanimous' thing and change it back. Meanwhile his "extreme vetting" will be bullshit like we all know it is. The process won't change much at all and he'll claim he made massive changes and scored some great victory over immigration.

He's all show and no go.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
4. Uhm, I thought the German schools make English a requirement.
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 12:58 AM
Jan 2017

So of course you speak English. It sounds like the ICE people are uneducated about those they were...um...interrogating.

 

ElkeH

(105 posts)
7. Correct
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 01:33 AM
Jan 2017

I'm not sure if there is a universal age when German children start to learn English. I've heard it can be as soon as the third grade, but I left in the fourth grade and there were no English lessons yet. Instead I learned from a private tutor and from Oxford University Press lessons. There were also lots of American families living off base in the area (Heidelberg), and interacting with American kids my age certainly helped.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
9. My boyfriend is German and was there until he was 14 and even the German
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 01:40 AM
Jan 2017

Catholic schools expected them to learn English though I never asked him at what grade he had to start learning.

DFW

(59,694 posts)
11. English is standard starting in the fifth grade
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 02:10 AM
Jan 2017

Both my daughters were born and grew up in Germany. They are proud dual citizens. My wife is German, so since they were born in Germany to a German mother, they were German citizens at birth. But as soon as they were born, I called the US embassy (then still in Bonn) and asked what I would need to get them US citizenship. The embassy told me to come in person, what documents to bring. In both cases, I walked out of the American embassy after about an hour with their passports, US birth certificates and social security numbers. I'm sure the bureaucracy is far worse now, but so far, neither country seems to have a problem with their dual citizenship. It gives them a unique advantage, as they can live and work in either the USA or the EU.

This is important, as the younger one moved back to Germany after graduating law school. There was a very high paying job available to someone fully bi-lingual in English and German, with valid EU citizenship or a valid work permit, and a US bar exam so they could practice in the USA if necessary. This was in 2010. She met them at a job fair, since jobs in the USA were still scarce then. When she heard what they were looking for, she said, "look no further. Here I am." She wouldn't mind a posting in New York at the firm's world HQ, and that could still happen. But for now, she has just become their youngest partner ever (she turns 32 next month), and is their star in her field.

Both my daughters were harassed somewhat by their English teachers while they were in school in Germany, as some of their teachers were intimidated at having native speakers in their class who knew better English than they did. Both went to college in the USA. They both had detectable accents in their English when they left. Now, no one can tell from their spoken English that they grew up as Europeans, and they make fewer errors in their written English than most Americans. German remains the mother tongue for both of them.

Both my girls feel fully bi-cultural, and would deeply resent having to swear greater allegiance to one half of themselves or the other. The elder one is happy as she could be living and working in New York City, and only a horror such as a Trump presidency could ever push her to move back to Europe.

califootman

(120 posts)
5. Is this an opportunity for education?
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 01:14 AM
Jan 2017

Have you considered sharing the story of your immigration with some of these acquaintances? I suppose it would depend on how well you know them, but I think it might help them make the transition from looking at immigrants as the anonymous "them" to real people... people they know.

And thanks for sharing your story with us! It helps educate those of us sympathetic to the cause of immigrants as well.

 

ElkeH

(105 posts)
6. I have tried
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 01:29 AM
Jan 2017

The typical response is "But you followed the rules, so you're different." Really? REALLY?!

People do not get greencards by not following the rules. The government does not hand them out like candy. Under normal circumstances, the average immigrant from Iraq has to go through the same procedures as the average immigrant from Germany.

Normal circumstances, because Trump & Lemmings are now changing things.

I suspect what makes me "different" in the minds of Trump supporters is that I am a white Christian (albeit non-practicing) from Germany, rather than a brown Muslim from the Middle East.

LittleGirl

(8,939 posts)
12. Thank you for sharing
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 02:15 AM
Jan 2017

my spouse is a British/US citizen now and your process was similar to ours. We lived in Germany after we got married and waited the two years before coming to the states to live. He had a green card for 3 yrs before he could apply for citizenship. I'm glad we had it done back then. He got a nice letter from President Obama. The process is lengthy, expensive and intrusive. My spouse had to get every address he'd lived at since he was 16 and had to get multiple vaccines at once. That was difficult considering he was over 40 and lived in Britain most of his life and those vaccines were not required there. Had to prove he was a man as well. He got a speeding ticket waiting for all this and was terrified that he would get deported for it. Even doing this legally, it is a mess.

dimediego

(3 posts)
15. I've known 3 people from Iraq who were trying to relocate here.
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 02:29 AM
Jan 2017

And guess what? They couldn't wait to assimilate here, because of how great it was here compared to where they came from. These people are valuable for their knowledge of Iraq. They're assets. And talk about loving democracy!

Why do we let the biggest boob among us dictate policy. Woe city bingo.

StevieM

(10,577 posts)
16. Welcome (back) to DU!! I see you put up your first post 2 years ago and then disappeared.
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 03:20 AM
Jan 2017

I hope you stick around this time. It is good to have you here!!

yuiyoshida

(44,921 posts)
17. Welcome to DU! youkoso! Irashaimase
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 03:21 AM
Jan 2017

ようこそ! いらしゃいませ!

Believe me, its even worse if you don't look American. I have been told to "GO THE FUCK BACK TO CHINA!" ...They don't care if I was born to Japanese-Hawaiian American parents. They JUST WANT my Chinky ass gone...

MFM008

(20,042 posts)
18. I purged all the repukes
Sun Jan 29, 2017, 03:34 AM
Jan 2017

from my twitter/facebook.
Not trying to talk anyone out of their stupidity.

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