Psychiatrist: Calling Donald Trump Mentally Ill Is An Insult To The Mentally Ill

[HAB911]

A leading psychiatrist is pushing back after a group of industry professionals wrote a letter to The New York Times saying Donald Trump suffers from “grave emotional instability” that “makes him incapable of serving safely as president.”

snip

He may be a world-class narcissist, but this doesn’t make him mentally ill, because he does not suffer from the distress and impairment required to diagnose mental disorder,” he wrote.

He added:

“Mr. Trump causes severe distress rather than experiencing it and has been richly rewarded, rather than punished, for his grandiosity, self-absorption and lack of empathy. It is a stigmatizing insult to the mentally ill (who are mostly well behaved and well meaning) to be lumped with Mr. Trump (who is neither).”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/psychiatrist-donald-trump-not-mentally-ill_us_58a512a1e4b045cd34be9702?mjut0rfb36cac3di&

[ck4829]

1. K&R, our media does a giant disservice to the mentally ill

Whether it's by afflicting them with Donald Trump or associating them with right wing terrorists and just plain scumbags like Dylann Roof, Robert Lewis Dear, or Jason Dalton.

[lunasun]

2. This guy has been a dick for ages , Same goes for all the oh its all just Alzheimer's comments

He has not changed much over the years just an ego getting bigger and improving his confidence game
Applied diseases lets him off the hook for his owned actions and makes people feel sorry for him
Might as well say the devil made him do it
Assholism is just assholism Imo

Edit to add a just posted example of how far back it goes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028659177

[pnwmom]

3. Few people with narcissistic personality disorder experience distress from it.

If they could allow themselves to feel distressed, then they're not perfect. But the need to be perfect is the core of the disorder.

Also, the criteria require EITHER distress or impairment, not both. And he is clearly impaired. Listen to his crazy talk. And watch what he does. He's impaired and that's why the White House is in such turmoil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

According to the DSM-5, "Many highly successful individuals display personality traits that might be considered narcissistic. Only when these traits are inflexible, maladaptive, and persisting and cause significant functional impairment or subjective distress do they constitute narcissistic personality disorder.


http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20025568

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/harvard-professors-us-president-barack-obama-grave-concern-donald-trump-mental-stability-a7482586.html

[TexasBushwhacker]

8. Excellent point n/t

[loyalsister]

11. From exhibiting traits to clearly impaired

Nothing anyone has said on the subject has reflected a proximal diagnosis that we would demand if people were targeting ordinary people.

[pnwmom]

13. Many psychiatrists and psychologists at this point have spoken out

on this by now.

And DTs impairment is documented in countless videos and transcripts. Any psychiatrist who is interested would have access to hundreds of hours of material.

[loyalsister]

16. And others have pointed out that it is not valid

and it is extremely unethical. It is an expansion of the tendency to blame mental illness (thus anyone who has one) for every single mass shooting. Both contribute to stigma. It is unethical and pure bigotry.

[pnwmom]

17. No, logically it is NOT an expansion. To say that one person has such a profound

personality disorder that he cannot perform adequately in office does NOT mean that ANY person with any type or degree of mental illness could not.

And almost everyone, particularly high achievers, has some degree of "healthy narcissism." What DT has is off the charts. And anyone who had accepted the diagnosis a year ago would have understood that he wouldn't suddenly normalize after the election. This is his personality structure and we're stuck with it.

[loyalsister]

18. Do we know of a time when he has not lived in a world that required serious responsibility?

He is exactly the jerk one should expect to come out of self constructed royalty. Narcissitic traits are NOT mental illness in and of themselves.
The thing that I find particularly disturbing is the delight people take in applying a diagnosis.

[pnwmom]

21. Nothing like what he's dealing with now, and he has no Daddy around to bail him out.

And he has failed mightily in the past.

I didn't say that narcissistic traits are mental illness in and of themselves. I said the opposite -- there is a healthy degree of narcissism -- but he is not healthy. He's deeply impaired.

The point isn't to put the "stink" of mental illness on him -- it's to assign him a correct diagnosis that leads to a particular prognosis: there is no cure or even good treatment for his problem. And he won't "grow into" the critically important job he's been given. It will either break him or he will break us.

If EVERYONE understood that he had a profoundly narcissistic personality disorder, then no one would believe it when they heard things like this -- because he cannot change:


http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/319714-mcconnell-trump-makes-own-goals-harder

“ 10 to 15 points higher if he allowed himself to stay on message,” McConnell told the Weekly Standard Wednesday, referencing Trump’s approval rating. "What he’s saying makes everything harder. harder to achieve what you want to achieve.”

McConnell said he had repeatedly urged Trump to tone down his rhetoric, especially on his Twitter account. “He doesn’t always take my advice,” he said, noting the president is the “most criticized person in the world.”

[loyalsister]

22. It's obvious that he is too thin skinned to accept criticism

because he has probably not dealt with it in a context where he couldn't fire the person or purge them from his circle.

His behavior after living a life where he has manufactured his famed, first based on wealth worship where he convinced himself and others that his bankruptcies were smart and strategic. Serial failed marriages to women who were replaced as if they had been fired. And, then through having a national presense in the entertainment industry.

I'm saying that his personality is not surprising, and therefore not truly abnormal.

Impaired is a term used clinically to describe disabilities.
He is not impaired. He does not have a temperament that leads to success in a world where a person is accountable to others. He doesn't seem to have much knowledge of government, he has a huge ego and can't accept criticism. He has been able to function quite well in the life he arranged for himself. The presidency isn't a position where he will do well. We shouldn't ignore the fact, that can be said for the majority of us.

[pnwmom]

23. He IS deeply impaired. He is completely unable to see anything other than

from his own perspective -- he is unable to acknowledge that the truth is anything other than what he says it is.

His fortune -- and before that, his Daddy's fortune -- up till now has eased his path, despite his degree of impairment. But it won't save him now.

[loyalsister]

24. Are you certain he is unable rather than unwilling?

Actually you would only be able to probe that with a direct exam.

Impairment is a measure of how well I can coordimate my movements, how drunk a person is according to physical inventory. You have no valid, proximal data to call him imapaired. Disabled people do not exist to be your analogy or diagnosis when you want to gleefully dirty someone up by saying 45 is a part of the disabled crowd.

[pnwmom]

25. No, impairment doesn't have to be just physical. He has a mental impairment

related to his complete inability to see anything from anyone's perspective but his own. In his own warped mind, whatever he thinks is the truth -- there is no other.

And there are hundreds or thousands of hours of video demonstrating his mental impairment -- more than most psychiatrists would have available if they had a patient in their office. But most people with the disorder don't show up in therapists' offices -- because then they'd have to admit they weren't perfect.

[loyalsister]

26. I didn't say it did

I said it's a technical term used clinically and using it for a distanced diagnosis turns real people into your analogy. Watching a megalomaniac behave is not going to give you the real data you need to make an assesment. It's ableism. Especially when it comes from someone who knows enough about mental illness to know that people who live with it suffer and are severely stigmatized.
You keep saying "inability" as if you have been close enough to him to distinguish between inability and unwillingness. He definitely talks like he is entrenched in his own belief system, but fail to understand that he is getting results he wants. His lies about the election are making liberals scream fraud along with republicans enabling them to push for voting restrictions while some Democrats are so invested in removing him from office that they are wasting time on ableist talking points. It's more productive to engage people who are going to be hurt and pull together in resistance.

[pnwmom]

30. There are plenty of psychiatrists who have gone on record disagreeing

with your point of view. They don't think they need to have DT in their office to diagnose him, because there are hundreds of hours of videotaped evidence that allow them to form their opinion.

Obviously, some experts disagree.

[loyalsister]

31. And the one who actually defined the diagnosis disagrees

And plenty of people have called it out as unethical.

[pnwmom]

33. I thought that was pretty funny. He's awfully old then because the personality

was first described in 1925.

He's also got it wrong when he said the diagnosis requires that the person be stressed AND impaired. It is only required that the person be either stressed OR impaired. Very few severe narcissists come in for treatment because they are not disturbed by their personality -- it only bothers the people close to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Narcissistic personality disorder is rarely the primary reason for people seeking mental health treatment. When people with NPD enter treatment, it is typically prompted by life difficulties or to seek relief from another disorder, such as major depressive disorder, substance use disorders, bipolar disorder, or eating disorders,[9] or at the insistence of relatives and friends. This is partly because individuals with NPD generally have poor insight and fail to recognize their perception and behavior as inappropriate and problematic due to their very positive self-image.[

[Blue_Roses]

28. Keywords:

"He has been able to function quite well in the life he arranged for himself."

Exactly. Conforming to a set of standards (the Constitution, will of the people, laws; oversight, etc.) blow him out of his "safe" zone. Therefore all the lies. The lies try to conform our reality to his reality and vice-versa. He actually thinks he is telling the truth. Now that is where the mental health diagnosis steps in.

Bigger question: what do we do about it?

[loyalsister]

32. The lies are serving a purpose

People are playing right into his hands with this. The lies about the election laid the groundwork for more voter suppression. Keep trying to get someone to find him incompetent while he keeps his promises to bigots.

[KittyWampus]

4. He definitely has a personality disorder/malignancy. However, he's also definitely mentally ill.

Whether it's biochemical or biological? Don't know.

His vocabulary and speech are not that of someone who is mentally whole.

There is some kind of impairment present.

[loyalsister]

9. Some are also suggesting learning disability

Using traits observable from a distance to make a claim of a disorder then conflating it with conditions that cause real suffering says more about what accusers think of people who live the experience than it does 45.

[jberryhill]

5. No, it's not.

To say that someone is unqualified to hold a particular position because of some sort of condition, is not an "insult" to others who might have a similar condition.

If a football team hired a wide receiver who had both his arms amputated, then I'd guess the performance of that wide receiver would not be very good. That's not an insult to other people who have their arms amputated. There are plenty of things that double arm amputees can do. Being a professional wide receiver is not one of them. That's just a simple fact, and not some kind of disparaging observation.

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. Yes, it is.

The "mentally ill" crowd are talking about his character and temperament. That he's erratic and self-absorbed is justification enough to disqualify him for the presidency on those grounds; mental illness need not enter into it. But those who insist on pushing this issue are insulting people who are actually diagnosed mentally ill because it perpetuates the impression that "normal" people can't possibly be self-absorbed dicks like Donald Trump.

Sorry to piss on your parade, but hundreds of millions of neurotypical people are complete douchenozzles.

[pnwmom]

14. No. The reason the diagnosis is significant is because it is predictive.

If it had been universally accepted before the election that he had narcissistic personality disorder, no one would have put forth the idea that he might "grow into the job" or that the "weight of the responsibilities" would change him.

People with the disorder don't grow up or mature under great pressure; and they are very likely to crack.

[jberryhill]

20. He is textbook NPD

His delusional thinking, self-aggrandizement, and constant need for praise and approval are well beyond "being a dick".

[Act_of_Reparation]

34. Yeah, wow. That's fascinating.

Because the person who write the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder disagrees.

The DSM doesn't make you a psychologist any more than WebMD makes you a fucking physician.

[jberryhill]

35. So what?

I'm entitled to have and express my opinion, just like anyone else.

Someone on the internet does not agree with you. It is not a life crisis.

[Act_of_Reparation]

37. Yes, you're entitled to be wrong, if that's your wish.

And I'm entitled to call you out for talking out your ass on a subject you clearly know nothing about.

[loyalsister]

7. If nothing else works, apply a stigmatized condition

I know people are desperate, but the association with mental illness exploits the ableism toward people who genuinely suffer.
Just as exploiting bigotry of any other variety is itself bigoted, so it is with these distant diagnoses

[Tommy_Carcetti]

10. I definitely understand where this guy is coming from. On the other hand....

....his behavior simply is not normal. And dangerously not normal, not only to himself, but to others as well.

You can't compare what he has to something like depression or anxiety or bipolar disorder or ADHD, and doing so would be a disservice to people who have those conditions and persevere and do what they can do not to let it affect their lives.

But on the other hand, Trump has....something. And it's not good and it's not normal. Trump does not act like most normal people act. But what can you call it?

[R B Garr]

12. No, not buying it. This person takes the context completely out of what those psychiatrists

were saying. They said that Trump is too emotionally unstable "grave emotional instability" which makes him "incapable of serving safely as president", which is completely true. He is not mentally competent or compatible for the position of President. Someone that out of touch with reality cannot perform safely. Someone that bent on revenge against perceived slights is not safe. Sure lots of people who are mentally ill are well behaving, but they aren't put forth as the leader of the free world.

You wouldn't take someone who has known mental disorders and ask him/her to take on responsibilities that are clearly outside of their capabilities, and it certainly doesn't stigmatize anyone else to recognize that a mentally unstable person is creating dangerous situations that impact others.

[pnwmom]

15. Good point. Not every person with a mental illness is as profoundly impaired as he is.

But no one this out of touch with reality or in as little control of his emotions should be President.

Also, the diagnosis -- among the many psychiatrists and psychologists who do accept it, on the basis of countless hours of taped material -- makes it clear that he will NOT be changing. Even with therapy, there is no reliable cure, and he's not getting any.

[bdamomma]

19. there has been much controversy

about 45's mental health. But by going this article and this quote:

A leading psychiatrist is pushing back after a group of industry professionals wrote a letter to The New York Times saying Donald Trump suffers from “grave emotional instability” that “makes him incapable of serving safely as president.”

So I take this, he is NOT capable of serving in the role as president.

So what is a "grave emotional instability", and is this considered self harm to himself or to others????

[smirkymonkey]

27. Here is my professional diagnosis:

World's most gigantic asshole. I think that pretty much explains everything.

[nikibatts]

29. But think about it. He can buy a gun thanks to the Congressional GOPers!

[LiberalFighter]

36. Regardless of the assessment Drumpf his condition disqualifies him to be President.