OMFG!!!

[Doreen]

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2017, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

My boyfriend who has a duel citizenship with Germany just got called into immigration!! He is 54 and has had U.S citizenship since he was 15 and his father was also U.S army permanently stationed in Germany. I knew they were going to start picking on people with ANY type of dual citizenship. I know it does not help that he is into politics but now I am scared. I am about to cry.






GOOD NEWS!!! HE DID HAVE AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER. HE IS NOT GETTING SENT BACK. I WILL LET YOU ALL KNOW LATER MORE DETAIL WHEN HE IS ABLE TO TALK MORE. HE IS STILL WITH ICE. THANK YOU ALL FOR TALKING TO ME BECAUSE I WAS REALLY FREAKING OUT...AS YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED.

[nolabear]

1. Oh dear. I'm so sorry.

I wish I could offer something. I expect he'll be fine with dual citizenship. Take care of yourself.

[Doreen]

4. Thank you.

Like I said he is very political and he has been arrested for being in protests even though he is in non-violent protests or the group that is non-violent. He was in the Berkely protest but not in the violent part.

[NotThisTime]

11. Seriously, get and bring a lawyer... he cannot go alone.

[Doreen]

13. I will be with him tomorrow but he is in Berkely and I am in Washington state.

I will be flying there tomorrow. It has already been planned to be there anyway. If he needs it he will get a lawyer. He is pretty damn savvy when it comes to this stuff. I am still scared though.

[Ms. Toad]

34. Do not let him go before consulting an immigration lawyer.

He may not be obligated to report (I'm an attorney, but not an immigration attorney. I don't know what authority ICE has over US citizens who are also citizens of another country).

If he is legally obligated to report, do not let him go alone. An immigration attorney is best. A non-immigration attorney is second best. A witness, even without legal knowledge, is essential.

[Doreen]

81. He had gotten a immigration lawyer and everything that

they tried to nail him with was found with proof that they were wrong. He is out now and back to work.

[Ms. Toad]

82. Fantastic! I'm glad to hear it!

Those folks scare me - and once you are in their clutches, it is much harder to get out than never to let them grab you.

[lunasun]

35. Bring a lawyer anyway . Review social media

[Doreen]

84. He did have a lawyer. I just did not find out until much later.

[starshine00]

2. so sorry to hear this

this is really scary, how many lives this is effecting, so sorry yours is one of them, I hope that things work out for him and you and are back to normal soon

[Doreen]

6. Thank You.

I kept telling people this might happen and they kept saying not he is from Germany so that will not happen, Yeah, right.

[Wellstone ruled]

3. Holy Cow,

we have tons of relatives and Friends that carry the same status. Most were DP's arriving in the time frame of 1946 to 1952.

Oh Boy,this is of major concern.

[Doreen]

8. I have suspected this dictator would go this far.

[Wellstone ruled]

12. Most of these folks

are Republican's,and one was a County Commissioner and Postmaster.

[tblue37]

15. ICE agent: ". . . were going to do whatever we want. . . ."

Immigration Enforcers, Unleashed By Trump, Can Finally ‘Do Our Jobs Again’
Agents said they felt constrained under Obama. Now, under Trump, they think they hold the power.

SNIP

ICE and Border Patrol agents anticipated they’d get more support under the new president, said Marielena Hincapié, executive director of the National Immigration Law Center.

Agents told immigrant rights advocates about “feeling really emboldened,” Hincapié said. “Like, ‘Wow, things could change, we’re going to do whatever we want, we agents will finally get to decide who gets deported and who doesn’t.’”

Today, “there is a clear ‘everything goes and everyone is a target’ culture in ICE,” said Greisa Martinez, advocacy director at the undocumented activist group United We Dream. “It’s the realization of the dreams of a lot of ICE agents that endorsed Trump.”

SNIP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-immigration-border-deportations_us_58a49e7be4b0ab2d2b1b6ed3?section=us_politics

[Doreen]

17. It is scary that they can do what they want.

They did this to him about a year ago but that was before Trump was in and he had no problem.

[SQUEE]

71. Do you know why he was questioned last year.

And was it DHS or ICE?

[Doreen]

85. I asked him and he said it was DHS.

They talked about protesting also even though he is not a violent protester. It seems they think the non violent protesters are urging on the violent ones ( what a crock. )

[LisaM]

28. OK, that's chilling.

If we ever emerge from this nightmare, we might want to look into these agents. Those feelings are un-American in my book.

[msanthrope]

5. Get a lawyer. nt

[Doreen]

9. He knows plenty who speacilize in this type of thing.

[kairos12]

7. I'm very sorry to hear to this. Sending you and boyfriend positive thoughts.

[Doreen]

10. Thank you.

[mopinko]

14. nobody should go to an immigration hearing w/o a lawyer.

lawyers will be all we have in all this. he MUST take a lawyer.
good luck.

[Doreen]

16. Thank you.

I had said before that he is pretty savvy when it comes to this stuff. He knows what to say and not to say and if he sees he needs a lawyer he will get one.

[Ms. Toad]

50. By the time he sees he needs a lawyer, it will be too late.

Especially since you have acknowledged that he already plead guilty to something (apparently without legal counsel).

This is not the time, in our country, to play junior attorney - no matter how savvy you believe you are. I am an attorney - and I would not even consider (1) going to immigration without an immigration attorney, (2) representing anyone in an immigration related case, or (3) advising anyone who is not a "birthright" citizen about the implications of guilty pleas - even in areas completely unrelated to immigration.

[Doreen]

53. Oh, he had an attorney when they/he did that.

It may just be that attorney will need to be called in. The organization he was with when that happened has some push.

[Ms. Toad]

54. If it was not an immigration attorney, it's not good enough.

Immigration law is a very specialized, but far-reaching, area of the law. No one who doesn't specialize in immigration law has no business representing a dual citizen, visa holder, etc. in a criminal matter, without associating in an immigration attorney.

[Doreen]

59. Crap. I feel very sick.

[Ms. Toad]

67. Hope he calls soon - and that it is all a false alarm.

But I've heard too many horror stories about immigration - even before now from folks who get tangled up in the criminal justice system and accept pleas - not realizing the consequences.

Prior to now, most of the horror stories were from kids whose parents adopted them when US citizenship was not automatic upon adoption. They didn't realize they needed to actively seek citizenship for their children - and when they reached young adulthood (typically) they ran into relatively insignificant legal problems they were booted back to their country of origin, including pleading guilty to crimes they (or their attorneys) thought would not have an impact on their residency status - but did. There was a pretty infamous case in the town I used to work in - a young man in his 20s sent back to Brazil for seling marijuana to an undercover policeman. He didn't speak a word of Portugese. It did not end well.

That loophole has now gotten closed, but the non-immigration attorney involved in the criminal matter didn't have a clue about (1) citizenship status of the young man or (2) the impact of a minor conviction on his ability to stay in the country.

I hope you've heard from him - and that it was all a false alarm! But do what you can to make sure he understands how dangerous times can be for anyone who isn't the "picture-perfect" citizen from birth.

[Doreen]

72. He just texted and he had gotten a immigration lawyer.

He is not getting sent back and not being put in jail. I will let everybody know more detail when I actually talk to him. Thank You.

[Ms. Toad]

74. Fantastic!

I'm glad he got an immigration lawyer - that is the best protection he can get.

[progressoid]

18. Here's a bit of related irony.

My sister-in-law (US citizen) voted for Trump. Now she's worried about the visa status of her French born husband because of Trump.

[NotThisTime]

19. Is she sorry she voted for him?

[progressoid]

22. Not yet.

It's cognitive dissonance on steroids.

[Doreen]

86. Even if all they do is call her husband in to ask

questions she will change her mind because I can tell you that it is really scary and unnerving.

[Doreen]

23. Well now you can tell her she needs to be.

My boyfriend does not have a visa status as he has been a U.S citizen since he was 15 and he is now 54. If he has been a citizen for that long and they are questioning/vetting him that is a not good sign.

[itcfish]

93. Many of our Iranian

Friends who are US citizens voted for Trump and now they are freaked out that their relatives cannot come and visit them and they cannot travel to Iran. It bothers me that people are only concerned when it touches them.

[StarryNite]

20. Document everything that happens!

Please keep us posted!

[Doreen]

24. Believe me I will.

I am "supposed" to hear from him at 2:00. I am as nervous as hell.

[yuiyoshida]

21. ((((Doreem)))) hugs, hang in there

[Doreen]

25. Thank you.

I will try but I feel like a mess.

[Squinch]

26. I am so sorry! Keep us posted. This is awful, and I'm sorry you have to go through it.

[LisaM]

27. Stay strong, and document, document, document.

If possible, get the names of the agents who called him (if it's safe to do so), record or write down the interview, do whatever you have to do to prove what happened at a later date, then call an attorney if you can.

[Doreen]

32. Thank you.

I am helpless right now as I am in Washington state and he is in California. He is pretty savvy when it comes to this stuff but with Trumps little goons I am not completely sure. He will do all he knows he can do but he can not fight an illegal being thrown in jail and not being allowed to call anyone. Would you put it past them to do that?

[Zoonart]

38. Report this to the ACLU

Call the ACLU right away.

FacebookTwitterRedditEmailPrint
Southern California
ACLU AFFILIATE

ACLU of Southern California
Executive Director: Hector Villagra
1313 West 8th Street
Los Angeles, CA 90017
United States
[phone]
Web: http://www.aclusocal.org

[Ms. Toad]

45. If you are going to record the conversation, you must get the consent of the other party

in California. (The laws vary by state)

[manicraven]

29. Did they indicate anything about why he's being called in?

He has every right to be involved in politics.

[Doreen]

36. They said they just want to talk to him.

But the fact that he has been arrested many times for being a protester can be a problem. He was arrested at the Berkely incident even though he was not near the violence because they said his group was encouraging the violence just simply by being there. They forced his group to either get many months in jail if they plead not guilty or only spend the weekend in jail if they plead guilty and that right there may be his downfall.

[Ms. Toad]

47. Too late now - but for anyone else reading this.

Especially if you are a dual citizen, here on a visa, etc. DO NOT agree to any plea without discussing it with an immigration attorney.

[B2G]

30. What wwas the purpose of the meeting?

Has he already met with them?

[Doreen]

51. They did not say but yes they have called him in before a

year ago because he is a known protester.

[itcfish]

31. Sorry to Ask

but is he White? If he is white and German, relax, he will be ok.

[Doreen]

39. Yes, he is white but read my post just above this and you will see his problem.

[vlyons]

33. He should contact an immigration lawyer immediately

Maybe go into the immigration interview WITH his attorney.

[Ms. Toad]

40. No "maybe" about it. n/t

[Doreen]

44. I am not sure how he handled it but as I have said he is savvy when

it comes to this but then again with the crap they are pulling it might not be enough.

[Ms. Toad]

52. Unless he is an immigration attorney, HE IS NOT SAVVY ENOUGH!!!!

Sorry to shout - but I've seen you make that statement several times in this thread - and you don't seem to recognize the danger that I (and several others) are pointing out.

No one, perhaps even not an immigration attorney, is savvy enough to protect people who are not birthright citizens at this particular point in the US. Definitely not someone who is not extremely well-versed in the nuances of immigration law that no one has thought to look at for years since it has not been an issue until Trump took office.

No. He is not savvy enough. Do everything you can to ensure that he sees an immigration attorney BEFORE his next contact wtih ICE.

[Doreen]

55. Unfortunantly there is nothing I can do and I do not know what he did.

He was headed to the office when he called me and did not talk to me enough. He said he would call me at 2:00. oh I hope he did not get detained.

[Ms. Toad]

57. I'll hope with you.

It looks like it's 2:00 now - hope he calls soon.

[Doreen]

87. I ended up calling him and when he did not answer

I texted him and got a little info then he called me later and told me all is fine.

[AJT]

37. I wonder if it's political

Are they looking for people who belong to liberal organizations? I bet no registered Republicans or members of conservative organizations will be called in. Start with people who have been arrested protesting and move on from there. It may be to scare them, or force them to choose a single citizenship.

[Doreen]

41. Yes, it is political. Read my post 2 posts above and you will see why.

Yes, I am afraid they will tell him to pick one or the other and I know he would pick Germany and I do not know if I could get there. I have no skills to offer another country and it is hard to be there even if you are legal domestic relationship or even married.

[Pachamama]

56. They can't force him to pick a citizenship if he is dual, unless the law is changed in congress. The

Current laws allow dual citizenship although I know at one point during the Reagan years, it was not allowed. Then the law changed again. So what is interesting to find out is whether they are going to try to determine if he got US citizenship 39 years ago when it may have been legally required for him to declare US only and against the law kept his German citizenship then. Or did he choose US then at 15, giving up German citizenship and then later since then requested to get his citizenship in Germany again (when it was legal to have dual).

I smell something very fishy here and I agree with all the fellow DUers here that he should absolutely not go to this meeting without an immigration attorney and he needs to know the answers to those questions I just posed about when he got the US citizenship, was he allowed to have kept his German citizenship or did he renounce and get it again later. It's possible they are "fishing" and will use this to revoke his US citizenship.

On other note - I thought ICE can only talk to non-citizens and green card holders. It's the State Dept that handles US citizens. He is a US citizen. Something doesn't feel right here.

[Doreen]

58. To add to his citizenship his father was also U.S army who happened to

be permanently stationed in Frankfurt Germany but he still had to apply for citizenship when he and his mother move here.

[Pachamama]

63. If he was born in Germany to a mother who was German, he was a German citizen at birth.

But was his mom only a German citizen (or US resident) and was he born at the US military hospital or a German hospital? There are reasons I ask because there was also a long delay (15 yrs) in getting citizenship. But something is missing here. It feels fishy. He is a US citizen. There should not be any reason why he should as a US citizen would be called by ICE. Unless they don't realize he is a US citizen and just think he is German citizen. It's one thing if the Berkeley police dept want to charge him and if even he has done something the state dept wants to talk to him about. But you can't be forced to choose citizenship and unless he has committed a crime against the US (talking espionage here as a crime, not protesting) you can't have your citizenship revoked. Heck, even serial killers sit on death row and keep their citizenship.

Something isn't right here.

[Doreen]

68. I am not sure if he was born in a German or military hospital and

his mother was full fledged German citizen. They jumped through every hoop to get here after his American father died. I just texted with him and all is well and he did have an immigration lawyer with him.

[Pachamama]

70. Please update us on what is happening - I really have chills about this

[MFM008]

42. I'll let my brother know

He was born in Libya......

[metalbot]

43. What do you mean by "called in"?

As in, singled out during entry into the country? That isn't particularly abnormal.

If he's received some sort of "Could you please come to speak with us" request, it's very abnormal. Once you have citizenship, there's no reason for immigration to ever think about you again, unless you are entering the country or they have information that you obtained your citizenship fraudulently.

[metalbot]

46. Sorry, just read your other replies

He should NOT talk to immigration, and should lawyer up. His arrest record AFTER his citizenship was received is completely irrelevant. They can't take his citizenship away, but they can definitely pressure him to renounce it.

[Doreen]

49. Oh, do not be sorry.

I am just scared they will threaten him with something that will make him decide to go back because he said if it got to unbearable he would.

[Pachamama]

69. I completely agree with what you said. I don't understand how ICE has any jurisdiction over him

Something isn't right here. It feels like when the police show up at your door without a warrant. If you refuse to let them in, that is your right. But if you agree to letting them in, then if they find something it can be used against you.

Same here - it feels as if they have no jurisdiction over him and if he goes in, he gives them permission.

I think they are on a fishing expedition - if he is a US citizen, they have no jurisdiction. It's state department.

As I said earlier - even serial killers on death row retain their citizenship.

[Doreen]

48. He has been a citizen since 15 and he is 54 now.

He has been very political and has been arrested for protesting several times. There is a post up above somewhere where I explain a little more in detail his problem. I do not want to type it again.

[avebury]

60. If he has a cell phone he needs to turn on the

audio recorder before he goes inside the building. He might want to see if he can pick up a stealth recorder. I have one that looks like a USB Drive and, when charged up, can record for several hours.

[Pachamama]

64. Many govt buildings don't allow use of phones or cameras or recording devices. It's also not legal

To record a conversation in CA without notifying and getting approval of other party.

[avebury]

77. In Oklahoma it is legal as long

as at least one participant knows a recorder is being used.

[Pachamama]

78. That's fine - but you were advising someone in CA to do that....this is why I replied...many don't

....realize the laws vary and California has very strict enforcement and penalties on this topic.

[LS_Editor]

61. Reach out to the ACLU for help.

They likely will be able to give advice, if not provide a lawyer (it may be too short notice for this).

[Doreen]

80. He did have an immigration lawyer and all is solved and

the idiots could not find anything to hold him.

[nutshell2002]

62. With all due respect, unless he is an EXPERIENCED immigration attorney

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2017, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

he needs to bring one with him. I am a lawyer by education and background and I wouldn't go there myself because I am not an immigration attorney. Just my two cents...

[Skittles]

65. I would take nutshell2002's advice

yes indeed

[Doreen]

79. He did have an actuall immigration lawyer and I am pretty sure my boyfriend would only hire

an experienced one. Everything worked out. They tried to nail him but everything they tried they found the proof that they were wrong.

[Vinca]

66. If he has U.S. citizenship they shouldn't be touching him.

[NotThisTime]

75. Under this administration, the rules seem to have changed... who knows anymore...

[DFW]

73. This is very chilling and hits close to home

My daughters are both dual citizens of Germany and the USA, have been so with the blessings of both countries since they were born. One of them lives in the States, one of them lives in Germany. If she weren't such a pacifist, I'd almost tell the US-based one to arm herself against any illegal search and seizure, except in Trumpistan, that would probably get her killed. The Germany-based one has a high-paying (as in mid six-figures) job in Frankfurt, and would laughingly burn her US passport in front of any over-zealous immigration agent who thought that threatening to take away her US passport was something she was in some way scared of.

My wife is a German citizen, resident in Germany, and has been detained twice in a row at immigration in Atlanta by incompetent CBP officers. The most recent time, December 26th, the idiot said her fingerprints "didn't match." Maybe they hadn't cleaned their lenses recently, but I know for a fact that the fingers on my wife's hand on December 26th were the same ones she had on that hand the last 99 times she visited the USA. If this happens one time in a row, we'll avoid ATL altogether in the future. We like ATL because Delta flies nonstop from Düsseldorf to Atlanta, but if we have to change elsewhere, then so be it. Besides, I am platinum for life on Air France-KLM and their food is better anyway.

[Doreen]

88. He is fine now. They kept trying to pin stuff on him but

every time they looked they found they were wrong. Good old paper work.

[DFW]

91. So far, my daughters have not been harassed

But they have been open with both countries about their dual citizenship, so if one of them (say, Trump's USA, for example) decided to get evil, the info is there for any overly official official to make use of.

[still_one]

76. This whole thing is alarming

[Doreen]

89. It is alarming that they would pick on someone who is not from

one of the countries that are on the dictators list. He is fine now they were unable to keep him because he was able to prove them wrong.

[still_one]

90. I understand Doreen

[treestar]

83. Doesn't make sense. If he was naturalized, he is a citizen

and ICE has no jurisdiction.

[LAS14]

92. Yeah, and how much is going to have to fork over to this lawyer...

... to defend him from TOTALLY ILLEGAL HARRASMENT???

[VMA131Marine]

94. Sorry but this story does not add up

ICE would have no mechanism to go after a naturalized citizen unless they suspected fraud in the application process. It can take years for an immigration judge to rule on such a case and there would be multiple hearings. Also, there is no crime you could commit that would cause you to lose citizenship that was legitimately obtained.

ICE certainly could threaten someone with an investigation into the circumstances of their naturalization and 'offer' the 'opportunity' to leave the country instead but this would almost certainly be a constitutional rights violation. That may not matter if the person didn't have the financial resources to fight the process.

Still, I don’t believe we are getting the whole story here. In a case like this with a US citizen involved, I would certainly contact the person's Congressperson and Senators who could quickly throw a wrench in the works. But, I would caution anyone against doing that in this case without confirmed details. There is too much that does not add up.