What will be the match to ignite the revolution?

[cbrer]

And will YOU answer the call?

The Declaration of Independence states it's YOUR DUTY.

How many threads here point to the outrageous usurpation of freedom in the United States?

At some point, these continued actions will crest, and tip over. How many here will leave the comfort of Western lifestyle. And join the cold dangerous path of revolution?

It's only our future if we demand it. Votes, candidates, laws, all tilt towards the Plutocracy. We see the evidence here EVERY DAY.

I love America.

[Live and Learn]

1. Got me. I thought the illegal wars that resulted in the murder of thousands and

ruined our economy would do it but apparently I was wrong.

[historian]

63. yes

Too much to think about. Can''t have that.

[Egalitarian Thug]

2. It probably won't be a post on DU n/t

[cbrer]

3. Definitely not.

As much as I enjoy this forum, it hasn't caused any social revolutions. Maybe this place has swayed an election or 2. Although I'd be surprised if even that was true.

But something will happen. Someday soon. And you'll have to choose.

[limpyhobbler]

5. Like what?

What are you talking about that is going to happen? Not snark, I just don't understand what you mean.

[cbrer]

6. Impossible to say accurately

I'm no history major, but even I can come up with some significant events that triggered revolutions and/or overthrows. Primarily political assasinations. But who can tell.

Murder outside our borders has no effect.

Continued tangible decline of domestic freedoms? Zero tremor as far as I can tell.

OWS is an interesting penomenon, but seems stuck in its infancy. Who can say?

[Egalitarian Thug]

47. There will be a tipping point, no question, and I've made my choice long ago.

Just a little impatient, now.

But for today, it's a good day.

[hobbit709]

4. Don't know but sooner or later the trigger will happen.

Historically when it happens it won't be pretty, ask the Bourbons or the Romanovs-if you can find one.

[90-percent]

7. The ignition of the Revolution

Occurred a few days ago with the Supreme's Montana Decision.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=154161

To make lemon out of lemonade, anybody that writes a book along the lines of:

"How to keep your middle class existence in our current PLUTOCRACY" will enjoy a lot of prosperity.

-90% Jimmy

OUR INSTITUTIONS ARE INFESTED WITH CORRUPT SOCIOPATHS

[Scootaloo]

8. You want to know? I'll tell you

"The revolution" will come when greasy salty foods are no longer on the menu and the toilet doesn't flush. Only an existential challenge to the gulp-and-shit lifestyle of America will make people perk up from their state of passive domestication... And even then it will only be an effort to return to that lifestyle.

If nothing's happened by now, nothing's going to happen. Sad, but true. Oh, there's plenty that COULD be done, but we're all good little doggies, and we wouldn't dare challenge our owners. That might require effort, and it's so much easier to just not bother.

[Leopolds Ghost]

9. "Idiocracy"

To quote one of the Congressmen who quit this year, "Americans have gotten dumber."

[cbrer]

25. AND it required careful training

To achieve that outcome.

[maryellen99]

12. when people lose their cable or satellite tv

especially when they can't watch their reality shows or ESPN.

[RC]

27. Sadly, you have hit on the correct answer.

The modern day Roman circuses.

[cbrer]

14. You're both right and wrong

There is a dangerous lifestyle among many (majority?) of Americans that will preclude getting their asses unstapled from the couch cushions.

But believe me. There are many Americans who will answer the call.

Patriotism may be a subject of derision in some circles. But it is real, and for all its shortcomings, may provide a glue with which we can build a weapon to defeat the Plutocracy with.

We'll need to get the military and police on our side. Perhaps enough of our fathers, and brothers can be swayed by familial ties...

My fave author (RA Heinlein) wrote an eye opening book about a revolution in the future. "The Moon is a harsh Mistress". Some ingredients for the recipe. But more importantly (IMHO) was the mindset.

[Javaman]

33. +1

I completely agree. I used to say a revolution will happen when the average mouth breathing slob of an American can't drive his monstrous SUV the 100 feet to the nearest 7/11 to pick up this weeks national enquirer because the price of gas is too high.

[historian]

64. Bravo!!!

My thoughts exactly!

[UnrepentantLiberal]

10. There won't be a revolution.

Revolution is too messy for most Americans.

[Ship of Fools]

11. Maybe it'll be the person at the polling station

who is told that he/she can't cast a ballot. Maybe that's when
the shit hits the fan...who knows (I know that I would be screaming
bloody murder if it happened to me.)

Just a thought.

[turtlerescue1]

13. Change never starts with an explosion

but with a deep cry of despair and agony. Its when that pain turns into anger, and the anger into cynical humor- seems the humor keeps the strength for endurance.

Its not the herd cows that seek a different pasture. My fear is before the tipping point arrives, it will get much much worse for we, the 99%. The wheat and the chaff will separate, but there needs be Unity. And the political group I love most has this frustrating history of splintering just when it needs to be united the most.

I too love this democratic republic, but its become a Sodom & Gomorrah.

Vonnegut and Orwell nailed this long ago. Darn it.


"Welcome to the Monkey House"!

[cbrer]

16. Hit the proverbial "nail on the head".

It cannot be stated better.

[TahitiNut]

15. My torch and pitchfork have been gathering dust since December 2000 ...

... when I thought the reasons for "going Bolshevik" on their asses were as profound and extreme as they've ever been.

Sadly, I've seen not even the smallest group "taking to the barricades." At my age and physical condition, I can only expect to be useful as a "bullet-stopper" but I'm more than willing to serve in that role when and if my fellow citizens ever choose to REALLY take back their government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" from the corrupt and obscene plutocrats on the right who're instituting a new era of fascism in the U.S. and the world.

[cbrer]

19. +1

I'll be there brother. You and I will never meet. But I'll see some to their graves.

[datasuspect]

17. disruption of the supply chain where it concerns food and fuel supplies

or hyperinflation.

[Bohunk68]

18. Being a history buff

has taught me one thing. Revolutions are carried out by a small number of persons. They may seem massive, but the truth is that only a small percentage of people actually do it. The overwhelmingly vast majority do nothing. True for the American, French and Russian Revolutions. And, numerous others. While there may have been massive crowds in Tahrir (sp) Square, when you compare those numbers with the total population of Egypt, it is not massive. So, the lesson is, it only take a small cadre to do it, you simply have to keep the great majority immobilized and watching from the sidelines.

[cbrer]

20. See Scootaloo?

Told 'ja so!

Nah...lucky guess.

[BlueIris]

21. I feel the possibility for a major scandal

affecting all branches of government. Possibly the reboot of the 'Watergate on steroids' scandal rumored from 2005, which was (allegedly) hooked into the Abramoff nightmare.

That could do something, if it had enough emotional resonance for the general population.

[Puzzledtraveller]

22. And how would we fight the collective military might of the Federal government?

We won't.

[cbrer]

24. Read History

Fellow citizen.

Not only do changes come during political/power vacuums, but significant changes can occur that don't require dismantling the whole edifice.

[dkf]

23. When there is no food

That is what it took in Egypt.

In terms of politics, people don't care.

[historian]

26. discomfort

Once Americans are deprived of their "rights" to ever more outlandish cars, 700 feet tv sets and gadgets galore; that is when the revolution will begin. Unfortunately anyone familiar with history will note that major revolutions such as France, Russia and even here, began with the intellectuals and intelligentsia. Unfortunately we lack those today; instead we have Limbaugh and Beck. We have as leaders imbeciles of the greatest magnitude throughout history (Reagan, Bush and practically the entire congress) so inspiration will not come from there.
No, sadly it has to come from the feeling that people are being deprived of cheap credit, inability to buy new cars and gadgets. Once they feel that, then the time will be ripe. However, there is one distinct point which, unless I am sadly mistaken, was the lack of scapegoats. It was the people versus the status quo while here it is Americans against other Americans. Attach a label to someone, and distract the great unwashed from reality and voila. Americans do not so much resent Congress, the usurpation of civil liberties, the crimes and infamies of the authorities as they do the perception that life is not as rosy as they are led to believe from the moment of birth. I.E we are Americans, therefore we deserve.
A distinct lack of education, and i do not merely mean the ability to read and write with a certain amount of accuracy, as it is to comprehend the subject matter being presented. The average American, and i include college graduates in this, lack a basic knowledge of the world around them. Afghanistan? Oh those Arabs again only afghans are not Arabs. Damn Asians come here and steal our jobs or have a business in a matter of days. Never mind the fact that these people have studied hard all their life and dedicated themselves to family and prosperity. The lie of course was the idea that all one had to do was come to these shores, apply to the government for help, be given free of charge, thousands of dollars and there you have it. Another foreign business taken from Americans. The fact that these businesses, regardless of the owners, furnish jobs!!
No, sadly enough, Americans are not emotionally ready for a revolution based on fact or understanding; they are only ready to use violence in order to maintain a way of life which cannot be sustained.

[secondwind]

28. We are unarmed. They are armed to the teeth.

[Mosaic]

35. Many liberals, Dems are armed

Don't spread the myth we are weak, we are not!

[libtodeath]

29. Probably never but hope I am wrong

Theft of two elections,lied into war,billions of dollars stolen and still nothing.
Worse yet a chance the public might put the monsters back in the white house.

[el_bryanto]

30. Depends on how bad things actually get

We've had plutocratic phases before; the Guilded age for example. They haven't lasted forever in the past.

Bryant

[Starry Messenger]

31. lulz.

[jimlup]

32. I'm sorry to say that I don't think we are at such a point now

We are more like the lobster experiencing the slow boil. I'm not happy that I see it that way - but that is how I see it.

[Mosaic]

34. Maybe when the full 99%

Is ready to fight to defend our democracy. Montana may be a turning point. The neanderthal erosion of our rights must be stopped.

[MineralMan]

36. What revolution?

What sort of revolution did you have in mind? The kind where countless people die?

No. Thank you, very much.

[cbrer]

38. If ye love wealth

better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! ~Samuel Adams

[MineralMan]

40. That familiar quotation is not an answer to my

question. You want a revolution? Here's my suggestion. Let's have a revolution at the polling places across the US. Let's make a showing that can't be ignored. Let's turn out in unprecedented numbers and sent an unmistakable message. You want to recruit people for a revolution? Go recruit voters.

[cbrer]

45. I'll be there my brother.

I'm not trying to incite violence here. But neither can I turn a blind eye to the reduction of the sharing of success that we're experiencing. I'm just noticing what's going on around me.

Believe you me, I will vote!

[coalition_unwilling]

37. "Revolution" is a loaded term and I think you need to define it before

asking what the catalyst for it will be.

There's an entire school of thought among sociologists and historians that argues that revolutions occur when people's expectation that things will get better significantly exceeds the pace by which things are actually getting better. IOW, revolutions occur when people are optimistic about the future and not when they are pessimistic about the future.

That runs counter to the popular conception which is that revolutions occur when things are getting worse and the masses see no reason for optimism.

[KurtNYC]

42. very interesting point

fits with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution#A_revolution_or_a_natural_course_of_action.3F

[cbrer]

44. The dictionary definition

Is widely available.

The meaning behind my useage consists mainly of the "American Dream" being blocked from the middle and lower financial classes by people wealthy enough to affect corrupt politicians and judges who create legal environments for the success of those policies.

This runs full length of government foreign and domestic policies. Everything from energy corporations to insurance companies, to drug companies, and financial corporations. To military operations that break laws established by our own tribunals of past World Courts. Refering not to all businesses, but to those who engage in, or take advantage of favorable conditions created by political entities.

The free market is a myth. We're being reduced to consumer sheep. Which in the opinions of many, reduces individual freedoms, as well as retard the growth of our nation. In terms of progress, and a better future for all citizens.

For a price, and a steep one at that, the "99%" are allowing the perpetuation of an artificial, non sustainable lifestyle through the artificial piling up of debt. Funneling to a select elite class of businessmen.

When not only is it within our power to change that scenario, but it's actually easier, cheaper, and more productive to do so.

When I consider the sacrifices of past American generations that brought us to this level of prosperity, it causes me great introspection and belief in the idea that I have, at least in some small way, abandoned earlier efforts to make this nation as great as it is.

I'm sure there are many, much more intellectual arguments that will point out the emotional/illogical aspects of those statements.

Fuck 'em

[coalition_unwilling]

49. OK, so then by 'revolution' you do not mean eliminating the principle of

"one man, one vote"? Or do you? I'm unclear on exactly what you mean by "the revolution".

[cbrer]

51. I tried to point out

That IF revolution comes (big if), it's going to come for many different reasons to many different people.

How did you reach the narrowing of issues to "one man, one vote"?

Whatever it means to enough individuals, once the tipping point is reached, revolution will happen.

[coalition_unwilling]

53. OK, since you refuse to define what you mean by 'revolution' (or 'the revolution'),

allow me to suggest a working definition:

When the system by which power is distributed changes and the groups holding power therefore change.

Since our current system distributes power according to the principle (imperfectly realized) and system of 'one man, one vote,' a revolution would necessarily change that system, yes?

[cbrer]

54. Please reread post

I defined what the word meant to me, and then pointed out that it means different things to different people.

I don't believe the concept of "one man one vote" necessarily needs to be discarded.

Trying to unify the concept into a singular definition serves what purpose?

[coalition_unwilling]

56. You are the person who used the phrase 'the revolution' (implying it

had some specific meaning), not I.

This whole sub-thread reminds me of the exchange in Lewis Carroll's "Alice In Wonderland" between Alice and Humpty Dumpty:

***************

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they're the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

'Would you tell me please,' said Alice, 'what that means?'

'Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. 'I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

****************************

http://sabian.org/looking_glass6.php

[cbrer]

60. You lost me man

I thought you wanted to know what I meant by revolution. Which I answered (reply 44). Was it unclear that I meant fighting against the causes I listed as my definition of revolution?

Perhaps you were asking what form the revolution might take when it arrives? If so, I have no idea. Lots of possibilities.

Then you asked me if I meant "one man one vote" going away. To which I replied "no" (reply 51).

Then you said words to the effect of, since you won't answer your definition, how about this one. (53)

Then I asked you to what purpose (54)

You didn't answer that.

Then you said I implied a meaning (that I already defined) and said ...Wonderland. (56)

I don't understand what I'm not giving you that you're asking for?!

Help me out here man.

[limpyhobbler]

57. Maybe we need a revolution to get more real democracy?

Maybe we need a revolution to get closer to the principle of 'one person, one vote'. And for other purposes.

Our current system seems not to distribute power according to its claimed ideal of "one person, one vote". Power seems to be distributed more according to how much money people have.

Maybe some revolution is needed to achieve that principle of equality so people can have a say over the forces that impact their lives. I would say a couple constitutional amendments would help. Repeal corporate personhood, get money out of politics, etc.

[cbrer]

59. Great start.

How about mandatory transparency? Unless it involves technology.

[Romulox]

39. I *don't* love America; not enough to kill or be killed. Maybe I'll leave?

My relatives didn't blow anyone up when their previous homes became intolerable, they emigrated.

I'm beginning to think OUT migration will be a major story shaping America, going forward.

[KurtNYC]

41. The elimination of paper money

Scalia overturns the results of the Civil War and combines that with Citizens United to officially make us all corporate slaves.

Mitt Romney takes power, make LDS the official religion of the USA. Bans all production and sales of tobacco, alcohol, caffeine and porn.

any of those 3 should do it.

[cbrer]

46. We'll see...

Perhaps.

[ieoeja]

43. When the stock market tanks after they have privatized social security into the market.

I would not want to be an elected official or any of their family members when that happens. And I'm about 99% certain I will see that happen within my lifetime. They are trying really, really hard.

Once social security is in the market, we will see a "crash" which in actuality is simply them taking the money out of the market.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

62. That's my take on it as well.

I'm targeted to retire within 12-17 years...we'll see how *that* goes.

[alterfurz]

48. "The revolution will only take place...

...once the middle classes finally realize they will never, ever join the upper classes."

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. -- Frederick Douglass

Beyond a certain point there is no return. This point has to be reached. -- Kafka

Can't fault the 1% for not doing everything in their power to help the peasants find out their Douglass limit, and reach that Kafkaesque point.

Almost there now? Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not even in the lifetime of old-timers like me, but coming, just as surely as the dawn.

[raouldukelives]

50. IMHO Climate change.

Quite a few people seem to becoming more acutely aware of the direness of the situation. It is not a joke nor a scam. The real deal. Around here its all dying a slow death. I feel like the entire food chain around here has suffered a 50% decline over the last couple decades. Less grasshoppers, bees, frogs, fish, birds, trees & water. Rainfall is sickly, the weather is totally unpredictable and the heat. The temperatures are slightly higher than norm but more than that it almost feels like the sun starts to burn me now. Its a different kind of heat. Maybe that's just me getting old but I'm not sure. All I know for sure is things are changing and at very fast clip. It makes me sad, scared and angry. Once the population at large starts feeling that fear I think we could see quite a bit of change. If they never feel that fear, if they can stay well insulated in climate controlled skyscrapers and limousines. Well, change is still going to come for them no matter how much money they spend on politicians or how many favors they call in. They shall reap the whirlwind.

[cbrer]

52. Great point

The machinations of man may matter little. In light of the ruination we've visited upon our great little planet.

Revolution from above.

[Initech]

55. I think when there's no paychecks - like Greece.

[treestar]

58. This won't happen as this country is stable

People rabid for this kind of thing need to go to some country in the third world.

[cbrer]

61. Do you know many people

Who are rabid for revolution? I don't. And besides, it's a violent, lonely existence.

If your tolerance level for losing personal freedom and/or privacy is a lot higher than other peoples, maybe you're lucky.

Are you suggesting that people willing to fight for the overthrow of fascism and government intrusion are zealots, or irrationally extreme in opinion or practice?

Does the suggestion that people who interpret freedom and human rights differently than our government should leave America, seem intolerant, or perhaps at minimum, short sighted to you?

[Posteritatis]

65. It'll take three meals too few, not some nice, safe sloganeering.

Nobody who does these cute little calls for The Revolution really understands what that sort of thing would involve in an industrialized country. It's why they tend not to happen to stable countries, even if they're unhappy stable countries.

[Sirveri]

66. When food instability increases to 55%

While people have full bellies and a stream of distracting television they will do nothing.

Also, it's NOT my duty, I joined the military and swore to defend the constitution and the nation, now that I'm out my obligation has ended. I'll happily flee if that's what it takes.