George Takei vs. Bill Maher

[Trumpocalypse]

Link to tweet

So many here have been defending the bigot Maher. I'll stand with George!

[TrekLuver]

1. It's very disheartening to see liberals knocking liberals because they are not liberal enough

or too liberal. I don't know what's going on with this "feud" and I don't care to.

I'm also sick of people just writing others off because they said one thing they didn't agree with or they didn't say something you wished they did.

[boston bean]

3. Bull Maher is not a liberal though. As far as I know he is a libertarian.

[TrekLuver]

4. Well he coulda fooled me and yes he's a liberal.

[Trumpocalypse]

34. Then he fooled you.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.711833
http://www.alternet.org/media/19-dumbest-most-bigoted-things-bill-maher-has-ever-said
http://www.mintpressnews.com/bill-maher-is-anti-war-except-when-it-comes-to-israel/207073/
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/reza-aslan-slams-maher-for-facile-arguments-about-muslim-violence/

[TrekLuver]

36. I'm not reading all that but because he said some "unliberal" things (I'll assume) he's kicked out?

This just goes to my original point.

[Trumpocalypse]

41. Kicked out of where?

This is about calling him on his bigotry which is somehow objectionable to you. Interesting like a Trump supporter, you refuse to read facts that don't support your views.

[TrekLuver]

44. I'm not seeing the bigotry here and please don't judge me since you know nothing about me thanks.

I'm done I don't debate people on DU this is not the place for that.

[Trumpocalypse]

50. So you are turning a blind eye to bigoty

That tells me enough about you.

[TrekLuver]

54. Block my posts because you are too liberal for me. HAHAHHAHAHA

[Trumpocalypse]

58. I don't block posts

I want to make sure to call out BS when I see it.

[TrekLuver]

63. Well then it looks like you're stuck with me...I call it out too and wanting to hang Mahr for this

is ridiculous. I'm sure he did it on purpose...I'm sure he said to himself...don't refute the transgender bathroom bit because it's true...and I believe it myself. He thought it was ridiculous when he said it and then Larry jumped right in and the topics/convo move along.

[Crash2Parties]

87. He also made sure to ask where the "weirdos" should pee.

[Trumpocalypse]

113. Who ever said anything about hanging Maher?

Just calling him out on his bigotry. Why do you find that so objectionable?

[Gore1FL]

66. He self-describes as a libertarian.

He also claims to have voted for Bob Dole in 1996.

[phleshdef]

74. No he does not. He dropped that ages ago.

He self identifies as a liberal progressive and has done so for YEARS

[Crash2Parties]

88. He's a showman. For the last maybe 8 years he was more Dem leaning. Then the WH changed parties.

[phleshdef]

90. Actually its been more like over a decade.

And the White House changing parties hasn't changed him at all. He is vehemently anti-Trump, ready to see him impeached, etc.

[Gore1FL]

97. in 2011 he renounced any label and described himself as "practical"

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-to-piers-morgan-palin-can-absolutely-win-in-2012-but-hed-vote-for-bachmann/

Do you have a supportive link more current that supports your statement that "He self identifies as a liberal progressive and has done so for YEARS"?

If so, please provide it.

[phleshdef]

99. Thats pretty vague and offers no video so I can't speak to the context of it. But I would identify..

...as practical myself and like Maher, I believe most of the practical solutions for today's problems are coming from the left.

Here is Bill Maher tearing Libertarians to shreds...

As for further proof, I've watched his fucking show pretty much every week for ages. He is consistently pro-choice, pro-socialized healthcare, pro-social safety nets, pro-social security, pro-gay marriage, pro-free speech, pro-marijuana legalization, pro-higher taxes on the wealthy, pro-environmental regulation, pro-fighting global warming, anti-fossil fuel industry, pro-gun laws... the list can go on an on. Anyone that actually is a fan knows this and I'm not gonna spend all night digging up clips on his stance on each of those issues. Thats overkill to expect that.

Yes, he can be an asshole sometimes. Yes, he is a bigot when it comes to Islam. Yes, he has some stupid views on a few issues, no one is fucking perfect.

[smirkymonkey]

105. +1000

[MindPilot]

165. Thank you!

[EffieBlack]

212. "Yes, he is a bigot" should just end with a period. There's nothing left to be said after that.

I don't care if he's pro-choice, pro-socialized healthcare, pro-gay marriage or pro anything else I care about. If he's a bigot, that's a deal-breaker for me and there's nothing that comes after the "yes, he's a bigot" that counterbalances the "bigot" part. Nothing.

FYI, the "Yes, he is a bigot BUT . . . " is exactly the reasoning that got a bigot elected President of the United States.

[phleshdef]

223. I'll decide how my sentences end. I don't need any help.

If I cut off everyone that was a bigot about something, I'd lose a lot of family.

Regardless, I like Maher's show and I generally like Bill, most of the time. If I was one of his panelists, I'd tell him to his face that he is has the Muslim thing all wrong and that he is being a bigot about it. Also his contention that the left turns a blind eye to the atrocious culture in places like Saudi Arabia is mostly horse shit. I'd tell him that too. I can do that and still like someone for all the things they are right about. Your purist judgement is a form of bigotry itself.

[EffieBlack]

228. Here we go with the "you called out someone's bigotry so YOU'RE THE BIGOT!" bs

You can frame your sentences however you wish. But don't get angry when others call you on your comments.

I did not say, or even suggest, that you "cut off everyone that is a bigot." But I will call you out if I choose when you dismiss someone's bigotry as just some kind of quirk that doesn't mean much because they hold other opinions that aren't bigoted. And I will certainly challenge anyone who claims that someone is a bigot but otherwise is a liberal, since, in my view, the two are completely incompatible and it is absolutely impossible to be both a liberal and a bigot.

As I said, in my view, being a bigot is a dealbreaker. I will not defend a bigot or dismiss their views as no big deal because they agree with me on other things. I'm sure that most bigots share with me some view of something. Rudolf Giuliani has gay friends. So what? Adolf Hitler loved animals. So what?

It all goes to what's important to you. Some people won't even hold a conversation, much less make friends or have a relationship with anyone who cheers on a rival baseball team. I couldn't care less about that. But I do care when people proudly espouse bigotry toward other races, nationalities or religions. And, if they do, I will call them on it and not give them a pass because they have some other qualities I like. And I suspect that if Maher constantly attacked, smeared and berated YOUR religion or race, you would not be quite so tolerant, defensive or him, or quick to claim he's a liberal, regardless how many other of his views you happened to agree with, and, you, too, would engage in what you erroneously refer to as "purist judgment."

As I said, it all goes to what's important to you.

[phleshdef]

231. You didn't "call me" on anything. You attempted to. But you failed because I'm no selling it.

Furthermore, I don't have a religion to smear. And I have plenty of bad things to say about white people, so if anyone is gonna "smear my race", I'll be the first in line to do it.

I'm not defensive of him, but I am tolerant.

And yes, your point of view on this is the textbook definition of bigotry.

[kcr]

233. Words have meaning n/t

[cannabis_flower]

78. He's a self-described libertarian.

[TDale313]

168. Nope. He's not.

Libertarian, not Liberal.

[Pachamama]

173. He is American

And I love Bill Maher and George Takei. I refuse to attack either and agree with them most if time and appreciate their efforts to speak out on issues.

[RelativelyJones]

6. Hardly. Bill Maher is indeed liberal.

[Trumpocalypse]

38. He is a libertarian who has many liberal positions

But he is also a bigot on many issues.

[Cha]

80. Yep, that's about the size of it.. I stand with George, too.

[TrekLuver]

120. I stand with both of them.

[EffieBlack]

213. Exactly

This "yes, he's a bigot, but I agree with him about other things" is how Trump got elected.

The only words that can and should ever follow the "but" in "Yes, he's a bigot, but" are "that's ok with me."

[phleshdef]

91. He has identified as a liberal for pretty much a decade now.

He calls himself a liberal. He constantly says thing like "fellow liberals", "fellow progressives", etc. His libertarian shtick was in regard to social issues. He wants government to stay out of people's bedrooms, legalize marijuana and stop getting into foreign entanglements. People misrepresent this all the time. Those of us that watch his show and follow his interviews on other shows know better.

And yes, when it comes to stuff like Islam, he is a bigot.

[Honeycombe8]

154. What difference does a label make? It's his positions on major issues that counts, isn't it?

It's really what he supports or doesn't support, and how willing he is to listen to other views, and how willing he is to have a variety of people with different positions on his show. To me, anyway.

[Orrex]

156. If that's true, then I wonder why Sanders campaigned as a Democrat

And then promptly switched back to Independent when it suited his purposes.

What difference does a label make?

[Goblinmonger]

192. You know Vermont politics are different, right?

But I'm sure that counts for nothing.

Sanders has caucused and voted with them dems since, well, forever. Should they have told him not to since he opted for the Independent label in Vermont?

[Orrex]

193. Are you saying that labels DO matter in Vermont?

[Goblinmonger]

194. Oh, man

There is no party registration in Vermont. There are all kinds of reasons why he is an independent in Vermont.

Maybe you should write to the Senate Dems and tell them to not let Sanders vote with them if you think this label bullshit is so important.

[Orrex]

195. Are you saying that labels DO matter in Vermont?

Maybe you should write to the Senate Dems and tell them to not let Sanders vote with them if you think this label bullshit is so important.

Maybe you should write to Senator Sanders (I) and ask why he thinks that this label bullshit is so important that he had to change his label when competing on the national stage and then change his label back when he returned to Vermont.

[Goblinmonger]

196. He had to change the label for the presidential bid because it's a two-party system

That's not the case in Vermont. That really isn't that hard to understand.

He has a strong track record of being with the Dems in the Senate. Why isn't that good enough for you? Why does that bother you so much?

[Orrex]

197. Are you saying that labels DO matter in Vermont?

He has a strong track record of being with the Dems in the Senate. Why isn't that good enough for you? Why does that bother you so much?

Why are you asking me? Why don't you ask the good people of Vermont? Clearly labels are a big enough deal for them that it drove Senator Sanders (I) to reject his home-state label and adopt a more marketable one.

If he's the same candidate whether he's an Independent or a Democrat, then why did he change? What illusion is he hoping to maintain for the good people of Vermont?

[Trumpocalypse]

175. Exactly

And on many issues he is to the left. On others he's to the right. But because he's to the left on many issues doesn't mean he gets a pass on the others especially when he supports bigotry.

[Honeycombe8]

198. I haven't heard him express bigotry. ??? nt

[Trumpocalypse]

203. You haven't?

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.711833
http://www.alternet.org/media/19-dumbest-most-bigoted-things-bill-maher-has-ever-said
http://www.mintpressnews.com/bill-maher-is-anti-war-except-when-it-comes-to-israel/207073/
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/reza-aslan-slams-maher-for-facile-arguments-about-muslim-violence/

[Honeycombe8]

209. No, I don't think he's bigoted.

I couldn't read your first link. It's paid content.

Most of the videos on those sites don't work.

Half of what I read were jokes he said. He's edgy and will make a joke that is not serious, of course. We KNOW he didn't really mean that so-and-so should be killed, for example.

The other half I read were comments that I don't regard as bigoted.

Those seem like articles just for the purpose of criticizing him for various things, much of which wasn't about bigotry at all.

[Trumpocalypse]

226. You don't include remarks

against Muslims and Transgender people as bigoted? You have an odd perception of bigotry.

[EffieBlack]

214. THANK YOU!!!

[angstlessk]

7. He is liberal/libertarian....

Hey, he himself said he goes both ways

[RelativelyJones]

14. I don't think his views on libertarianism have changed much since this video

[Warren DeMontague]

17. if we define everyone who supports free speech and legal pot as "libertarian", that's what he is.

To my mind, those are both liberal positions.

He pretty consistently supports Democrats and attacks Republicans, though. I've never heard him suggest people should run out and vote for Gary Johnson.

[Fast Walker 52]

24. he's a strong supporter of Democrats-- he supported Obama and Hillary

he donated like $1 million to Obama.

so not a libertarian, though he has some really strong views on freedom of speech

[Trumpocalypse]

61. That doesn't excuse his bigotry.

[Fast Walker 52]

179. No, it certainly does not. I just don't think he's a libertarian at all

[EffieBlack]

215. Apparently, some Democrats think his bigotry is just fine as long as he supports the positions they

care about - a list that does not include "not being a bigot."

[Azathoth]

202. Bill's libertarian credentials begin and end with legalizing weed n/t

[GoneOffShore]

205. I think Maher has passed his sell by date.

He's crawled down some fairly dark sewers recently, and come out smelling exactly how one would expect.

[JI7]

11. this s about bigotry and lies about transgender people

[Ms. Toad]

18. Did you watch his wink-and-nod encouragement to milo's extremely transphobic remarks?

He essentially accused transgender individuals of being responsible for most sex crimes - and Mahr didn't even bat an eyelash, just kind of chuckled along with him.

I don't know how he behaves the rest of the time, but from that brief glimpse - he doesn't even come close to being liberal.

[TrekLuver]

26. I'll have to watch it...

[Ms. Toad]

37. If someone tolerates and encourages blatantly false and transphobic lies, yes.

It is one thing to disagree on positions on a few issues. It is quite something else to give a bigot a national platform from which to make objectively false and bigoted assertions and not only not challenge those statements - but to chuckle and encourage them. (For the record, it is a shame that I feel the need to qualify "false" by clarifying I mean demonstrably provably untrue statements.)

Here's the exchange:

Larry Wilmore: "You can always find an extreme person that's becomes object of your attack to assign that to everybody. So if If you say that person is weirder, they want to commit sexual assault, then everybody things that all transgender people want to do is commit sexual assault."

Milo: "Well, they are disproportionately involved in those kind of crimes,"

Maher They are what?

Milo "Vastly disproportionatly involved in sex crimes

Maher Who is, transgendered people?

Yaesss . . . of course

Maher {shoulder shrug}

Wilmore Based on what statistic?

Milo: It's not a controversial statistic

Wilmore {speaking over Milo} Yes, it is

Milo . . . and frankly you're saying, you're suggesting, that these people are some kind of victims of discrimination, well I'm saying to you this is a psychiatric disorder

Wilmore{speaking over Milo} I didn't say discrimination . . . you said discrimination . . . I said marginalized

Milo: like identity disorder or sociopathy or something, you know, . . . I don't want these people around little girls in bathrooms

[TrekLuver]

49. After watching it he was not chuckling with him...he was chuckling at him..and he said WHAT

[Ms. Toad]

56. Scroll back to Maher's comment about "weirdos"

He certainly was chuckling with him.

[Beaverhausen]

131. You need to watch the show AND the after show

Maher let Milo get away with plenty of ugly bigoted lies.

[NurseJackie]

70. Yes I did. It was disgusting. Vile. (I assume he's trying to save or resurrect his show ...

... with the new opening music, the new set, and the new JERRY SPRINGER & MAURY POVICH sensationalism.)

[MindPilot]

121. Huh?

This is like his 14th or 15th season; nothing unusual about a new set. And he doesn't have a new format; same as it's even been, no where close to Maury or Springer.

[JCanete]

152. That figure was clearly off the wall. Didn't he say " involved"? Which might be true, and entirely

misrepresented at the same time, since transgender people are so often the target of sex crimes.

that does seem like an area that Maher failed pretty miserably. Even if he wasn't up on the facts, which he should have been given that Milo was going to be his guest, he could have at least pulled out his brilliant(I mean that truly) retort to people spouting "facts" on his show, where he says "that sounds like something that I'm going to look up later and find out was complete bullshit."

I understand the inclination to treat a hostile guest with some kid gloves, because that guest is going into the lion's den, but on this topic, I agree that Maher sucked. Those aren't the freebies he should be giving, and it very well may speak to Maher's own ignorance/bias on the topic.

The good thing about the forum is that he had people like Wilmore there to step up where he fell down.

[Ms. Toad]

187. That is likely the statistic he was using -

But he pulled off so smoothly that I'm sure it is not the first time he's said it - so Maher should have been prepared to counter it.

Even if Maher hadn't done his homework on a guest he clearly knew was controversial, he should have stopped and demanded an explanation, rather than just shrug his shoulders and accept it.

But yes - it is good that others were there to fill in the gap.

[Trumpocalypse]

32. So your argument is we should turn a blind eye to bigotry.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

[TrekLuver]

33. Did I say that was my argument?

[Trumpocalypse]

35. You posted that we shouldn't attack Maher for his bigotry.

So it sounds like your argument.

[TrekLuver]

39. I said nothing like that you can go reread what I wrote I'm not typing it again.

[Trumpocalypse]

42. I read what you wrote

and you apply the false equivalency the somehow calling Maher out on his bigotry, not to mention his effort to normalize a hate-monger, was somehow saying he is not liberal enough. Ridiculous.

[TrekLuver]

53. You know what I just watched the video and I don't see any "blatant" bigotry portrayed by Mahr.

He was not normalizing him for god sake..did you watch the video...this Milo guy got served. And that is exactly what you are saying...that he is not liberal enough for your liking and he's now a "bigot"...talk about ridiculous!

[Ms. Toad]

69. That says quite a lot, that you don't think this is blatant bigotry

Milo: I think women and ch . . and girls should be protected from having people who are . . . men who are confused about their sexual identities in their bathrooms

Maher: {shaking his head in agreement} That's not unreasonable

Milo: {talking over Maher} That person, who was an activist, . . .

. . .


Maher: Jack, Where do you stand on weirdos peeing?

{Sounds of laughter - including from visual by Maher}

Jack: Well it sounds like {unintelligible}

Milo: Did you just call transgender people weirdos?

Maher: {laughing} Just a {unintelligible}

[TrekLuver]

73. Except it wasn't unintelligible..Mahr said "I said it to Fuck with Jack"

[Ms. Toad]

92. That makes it less bigoted to call transgender people weirdos?

Good lord.

[TrekLuver]

100. He was kidding around...good lord lighten up. I'm done with this nonsense now.

[Ms. Toad]

188. It is not nonsense

because the reality is that anyone whose apearance is not "sufficiently" feminine (or masculine) has to risk their safety to use the bathroom. This is *literally* a matter of life and death for trans and gender non-conforming individuals.

"kidding around" about trans individuals being weirdos is part and parcel of "othering" trans individuals - giving consent to do far worse than "kid around."

he study focused on people who identify as transgender or gender non-conforming/genderqueer in the Washington, DC area and found that an overwhelming majority — 70 percent — had experienced some sort of negative reaction when using a bathroom. . . . The primary experience trans people reported was verbal harassment, with 68 percent reporting they were told they were in the wrong facility, told to leave the facility, questioned about their gender, ridiculed or made fun of, verbally threatened, or stared at and given strange looks. Some also shared that the police were called and others noted that they were followed after using a facility. For 9 percent of respondents, actual physical assault has also occurred, including being forcibly removed from the restroom, hit or kicked, intimidated or cornered, or slapped; one respondent reported being sexually assaulted.

Moreover, 18 percent of respondents reported they were simply denied access to a restroom.

. . .

There were health consequences for respondents as well, with 54 percent reporting physical complications like dehydration, urinary tract infections, kidney infections, and other kidney problems simply because of the tactics they used to avoid going to the restroom during the day.

https://thinkprogress.org/study-transgender-people-experience-discrimination-trying-to-use-bathrooms-34232263e6b3#.gvrp49mep

So 6 out of 100 trans individuals in this survey experienced physical violence merely for trying to use the bathroom. 13 out of 100 were denied access to the bathroom. Those statistics would likely be higher - except that the fear of using the bathroom causes many to take measures so extreme to avoid needing to use the bathroom that it has damaged the health of 38 out of every 100 responding individuals.

This is a 2013 survey - before Trump, Milo, et al. intentionally riled up emotions against trans individuals in connection with bathrooms.

[BannonsLiver]

211. Notice how that inconvenient little fact was left off the posted transcript

Maher was clearly implying that's how Kingston would view them but you don't pick that up on a transcript like you would actually watching the clip.

For example if I invited a friend to go the local Latin market I might say "unless you're afraid to be around all those dangerous illegals."

Obviously I don't think illegals are dangerous, or that everyone there is here illegally, but that's how my conservative friend might view them. It's mocking their xenophobia which is what Maher was engaging in with Kingston.

[Trumpocalypse]

115. When he started reading the Joan Rivers quotes

it was all about normalizing a hate-monger. Stop defending his bigotry, you're only making yourself look bad.

[TrekLuver]

118. That's OK I don't need to prove my "liberalness" to you...why you actually likened me to a Trashpot

supporter so I'm not worried about making myself "look bad". I could give a runny crap what you or anyone else "thinks" of me. I think you are making yourself look bad by your intolerance to anything that you don't care for. The one thing Mahr said that I didn't appreciate is seeming to agree that the Trans person was "confused"...OK so I didn't like that comment nor did I agree with it...I raised my eyebrow.....so if I were someone like you I'd run and yell that he's a bigot and an asshole and he's not a true liberal and stamp my foot that I don't like him anymore because of it.

So....just write off someone because they didn't say something you like or you don't agree with them.. Now who does THAT sound like?
All the wackos calling for Shepherd & Wallace's head because they said something they didn't like. NO THANKS! When I see there is a clear pattern over and over again on multiple issues...only then would I abandon ship.

So let me ask you this hypothetical situation...if someone is a liberal but let's say they have an issue with Trans people...for some reason they just can't "accept" it - whatever.....but in most if not all other ways they are a liberal...does that automatically make them not a "true" liberal...? Would they not be welcomed in your Democratic party?

[Trumpocalypse]

123. Yes I'm intolerant of bigotry. Guilty as charged.

And that doesn't making me looking bad. Defending bigotry would. Putting words in other people's mouths to make an intellectually dishonest argument would. But condemning bigotry doesn't.

[TrekLuver]

126. Fair enough...I'm not a fan of it either...I don't think there are many here who would defend

blatant bigotry....but I'll defend his right to say it and in turn my right to disagree with it but I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If I cut out everybody who said something I didn't like I'd have no one in my life. The bottom line is we are still on the same team...even if you think that sometimes he's an asshole.

And you didn't answer my question about the hypothetical liberal.

[Trumpocalypse]

148. Who said anything about 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'

You keep trying to put words in other people's mouths to win the argument. This is and has always been calling Maher out for his bigotry. Yet you persist in the intellectually dishonest arguments.

[TrekLuver]

149. Go chase your own tail. I'm done with you...have a nice day.

[Trumpocalypse]

151. You keep saying that

and then you keep coming.

[Adrahil]

62. I'll knock transphobia whenever I see it.

I mean, we're not talking about a disagreement about whether single-payer is better than a multiple provider system, we're talking about human rights.

[TrekLuver]

64. The only transphobia on the show was Milo...and maybe the other southern guy I forget his

name right now....Jack something.

[Adrahil]

68. Maher gave Milo half-hearted agreement....

when Milo said this was about protecting women and girls in bathroom from "confused" men.

That is transphobic NONSENSE.

Milo, with his support for pederasty, is WAY more of a danger to little boys than the vast majority trans women are to women and girls (or a trns man to boys). I know a trans woman and a trans man. Both are brilliant (they hold PhDs), and neither are confused. And BELIEVE me, no little girl would feel comfortable with the trans man in the ladies room. He looks and sounds like a man, whatever it says on his birth certificate.

[Crash2Parties]

89. And when Maher said "where should the weirdos pee"???

Not to mention NOT calling Milo on his rampant transphobia.

Maher has a history of saying transphobic, misogynist and even racist things.

At best he may be a performer who is about to change his leanings based on who is in power. Hey - maybe he's aiming for a spot on Fox news?

[dsc]

79. It is one thing to believe that there is too much emphasis on a civil rights issue such as

the use of bathrooms by the transgender community. But it is quite another to ratify lies told by a lying guest. It is just plain false that the transgender community is more likely to commit sexual assault. It is also a big problem for me when a supposed liberal slanders an entire community as Maher did on Friday.

[Crash2Parties]

86. "not liberal enough"? What he said was bigoted & right out of the GOP cue cards.

Since when is doing the conservative's work for them considered a good thing by liberals?

[Honeycombe8]

153. A feud with Bill Maher? Who contributed $1 Million to the Obama campaign?

Wonder why.

[Kimchijeon]

200. Yeah, I feel the same way. More unity is needed in general.

I love George Takei, and I have nothing against Bill Maher. I didn't watch the Milo appearance so I don't know how that went. He does have conservative assholes on frequently, so I wonder is it more that Bill didn't tear him down enough (which would have been easy as hell)?

I can get that, being disappointed in Maher for a lost opportunity... but to me not worth saying "oh fuck you Bill" The "you're dead to me" overreaction is a bit unwarranted to me. Pretty sure if Milo had been properly shamed and destroyed on Bill's show that this wouldn't even be an issue, so that was my guess.

Sorry for my pontificating!

[BannonsLiver]

210. +1000

[brooklynite]

2. Would it hurt to provide context to those who didn't watch his show?

[angstlessk]

5. Mahr was phobic about transgenders

I did not agree with him, and Taki has every right to bring it up.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Milo made a bigoted and wrong point about transgender people being "dangerous"

and Maher missed an opportunity to challenge him on it, and seemed to at least half-heartedly agree.

It was the worst part of an otherwise mildly interesting and generally not-that-incendiary (I think, compared to what some people expected, at least) segment.

It's worth noting that the anti-trans bullshit Milo was spouting was and is identical to that which is still spewed by self-identified "Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists", like the ones who have spent the past decade or so convinced that the entire "trans agenda" is just a man-plot to smuggle penises into the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival.

Fortunately during the "overtime" segment, which is available online, Larry Wilmore brought it up again and told Milo to go fuck himself over it.

[Ms. Toad]

21. I dont agree wtih the TERF folks,

but accusing transgender individuals of sex crimes is NOT the same argument as asserting that people who have grown up socialized as men carry and assert themselves in an entirely different way than people who have grown up socialized as women (and that the private MWMF is a space the people who own it have decided is a space for people who have grown up socialized as women).

One is a blatant and vicious lie. The other has connection to reality - and it creates some uncomfortable tensions. I think we need to more inclusively address that tension, but it is not even on the same planet as accusing transgender women of sex crimes.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I think the shit Julie Bindel has said on this is uncannily similar to Milo's rhetoric.

But either way, Maher's response sucked.

[Ms. Toad]

23. I don't know Julie Bindel,

But I stopped going to MWMF during at least one round of the discussions - so I was directly involved in those conversations.

Ultimately, I left because I felt unsafe there for completely unrelated reasons that I asked the owners to address. They refused, so we parted company.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Well if you run down the bigoted bullet points, they're identical.

Transpeople are "mentally ill" -check.

Transpeople present an inherent danger to women (or "womyn-born-womyn&quot - check

The "trans agenda" is really just a pervy plot to sneak man parts or "male energy" into womyn-space - check



Same deal.

[Ms. Toad]

27. You're missing the most significant difference,

which is the blatant assertion that transgender people are disproportionately responsible for sex crimes.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. You're right. And I don't know if that's part of Bindel's assertions, or not.

That was a particulary noxious piece of disinformation that Maher should have debunked.

http://www.thewrap.com/milo-yiannopoulos-trans-sex-crimes-transgender-larry-wilmore-willmore-real-time-bill-maher/

[Lotusflower70]

8. I see both points

I love Bill Maher and George Takei. Both have different approaches and viewpoints. A lot can be learned from both. I don't see Bill as a bigot. He has some valid points about picking and choosing our battles in order to be most effective. George has great insight as well.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. I like Maher and agree with him on many things, but he's not always right.

This is one of those cases.

But that's how free speech works. You think someone is wrong or disagree with them, you say "hey, you're wrong" or even "you're full of shit, fuckgoblin".

[Lotusflower70]

13. Agreed

People are free to disagree and call out bs. I think it's extremely important and people can learn from it.

[Va Lefty]

16. Well said Warren! I agree

[mountain grammy]

76. Exactly!

Thank you for putting it in to perspective, just like I knew you would.

Now, I only hope Bill chooses not to respond to George. Just let it go, Bill, just let it go.

[Warpy]

9. Anyone who thinks a man in a dress and heels wearing a waist cincher

padded bra and padded girdle is a threat to any woman in a rest room has obviously never worn any of those garments, especially all together. Maher obviously thinks the presence of a penis in there somewhere is a danger. Honey, you have to be able to get to it, first.

[angstlessk]

19. That is too hillarious

I have NEVER heard of ANY transgender person attacking a woman in a bathroom? Where is the reason for these insane laws?

[theaocp]

30. Divide and conquer.

Keep us fighting among ourselves about shit that shouldn't fucking matter. They laugh all the way to the bank and reelection. It's frustrating and disgusting.

The larger issue is why the FUCK maher gives this piece of shit milo air time. The motherfucker is an attention whore and should be fucking shunned into irrelevance. But no, he gets to spew his horseshit on national television. It's a goddamn travesty that his name is not synonymous with SHAME.

[babylonsister]

20. Hahaha!

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Yep. Maher was wrong and should be called out on that.

He should have pushed back on Milo on that point.

Fortunately on overtime Larry Wilmore brought it up and told Milo to go fuck himself over it.

[TrekLuver]

28. I've seen him miss opportunities before...but then I was thinking if I was hosting the show

I'd probably miss some things and people would be yelling at me through the TV. So I try to cut everybody some slack....if a newscaster, anchor, journalist says something I don't agree with or dont' ask what I think they should be asking I don't just write them off completely. Some are better than others of course.

[Ms. Toad]

43. This one was too offensive, and too blatant.

Transgender women are disproportionately the victims of sex crimes. To allow Milo to portray them as the perpetrators is beyond the pale.

That offense was not something little he might just miss that was caught by someone with eagle eyes watching videos over and over for any hint of offfensive.

I'd never run across this Milo character before - and was watching the video because of a point that was made later on that someone was pointing too. I could barely stand to watch it. I think he should have been called on the hatred and the "we're all guys her, yuk-yuk, earlier in the conversation. But for Maher to permit Milo's twisting of the reality that leaves far too many of my friends raped, maimed, or dead into an accusation that they are disproportionately perpetrators, is beyond the pale.

If you haven't watched it, you should. http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/2/18/14659650/larry-wilmore-milo-yiannopoulos-bill-maher

[TrekLuver]

48. Milo didn't get away with anything in that video...so I'm seeing something different.

Mahr wasn't acting as the attack dog..he was the moderator...Larry let him have it...it was all Larry. Letting him on the show exposes him even more for what a fool he is. Every point he tried to make he got the smack down. Too automatically call Mahr a bigot is outrageous in my opinion. After Milo made that stupid comment Mahr said WHAT and Larry jumped in..there was no stopping Larry.

[Ms. Toad]

55. I never suggested Milo got away with it. We were discussing Maher's behavior -

Not calling Milo on that outrageous, objectively, demonstrably false, statement was beyond the pale.

But - as to the others calling him on his behavior - Aside from Larry's two comments, which suggested it was a controversial statistic, those objectively, demonstrably false statements were let stand.

[TrekLuver]

60. Larry jumped in right away. It's a talk show moving along to the next topic. You guys are really

turning nothing into something...like it was done on purpose...yes let's not refute that one bit so we can secretly promote it. Yeah I'm sure that's what Mahr was thinking.

[MindPilot]

127. plus infinty!

Bill set him up and handed him over to Malcolm Nance who shredded him.

I think the handoff comment was something along the lines of "this man (Nance) has spent his life doing shit so you can stay alive."

[Crunchy Frog]

31. I find Maher a mixed bag.

There are areas where I profoundly disagree with him, or find him offensive, but there are other times when he just hits it out of the park.

Am I the only one here who was really impressed with his "magic R" piece this week?

[BeyondGeography]

40. You weren't...Maher's fearless critiques of Republican hypocrisy are a model that all Democrats

should follow, starting with our elected officials. He plays for the blue team and a lot of our mealy-mouthed politicians and spokespeople could learn from him. To those who would tune him out, so what if he doesn't always pass you the ball exactly the way you'd like.

[TrekLuver]

122. It's called "liberal intolerance".

[Boomerproud]

67. I though the Magic R segment of New Rules was one of the best ever.

Yes, Maher is too simplistic at times, but when he is passionate about something there is no one better.

[LenaBaby61]

77. I find Maher a mixed bag.

Agreed. I agree with some of what he says, but I find myself agreeing MORE with George much more.

[samnsara]

103. me too..

sometimes I cant watch him....

[smirkymonkey]

106. I thought the "Magic R" piece was one of his best.

Funny, but also profoundly disturbing in it's truth.

[JHan]

45. caught the repeat and I don't know why Milo was on... I don't know why anyone invites him anywhere..

He is boring.

I learned nothing because Milo is an uninteresting asshole
He was told to fuck off because he is a boring asshole
If it weren't for Wilmore and Nance, Bill's show would have tanked because, at the end of the day, Milo is an exasperating asshole.

Why do liberals love to give this bore a megaphone? To prove what?

[Crunchy Frog]

47. I learned that he's an uninteresting asshole.

[JHan]

52. Right?!

..all he said was .. blahblahblah lena dunham.. blahblahblah somebodyidon'tlike blahblahblah.. *assorted bitchin*... over and over and over.... talking over everyone saying essentially nothing.

[ProfessorGAC]

101. My Wife And I FF'd The Last Bit of Him

Why? He is BORING! One trick pony and the trick gets old very fast. My wife and i think he may be doing performance art and laughing all the way to the bank.

[mnhtnbb]

104. My impression was that he is doing performance art

he's adopted a character that he thinks will "play" and he's laughing all the way to the bank with it.

I think you and your wife are exactly right.

[Stargleamer]

46. Beam Me Up, Mr. Sulu, because this planet sucks n/t

[tirebiter]

51. IIRC, Bill told Milo to shut the fuck up

After Larry and Malcolm told him to go fuck himself.

[Trumpocalypse]

57. Then why did Maher give him a platform in the first place

and not push back on his bigot views of transgender people.

[Demonaut]

59. I stand with both

[NurseJackie]

65. I thought he was too. Bill Maher is dead to me now. Some of his biggest defenders BEFORE the show...

... seem to have gone into hiding. May they forever stay there, never to return.

[SunSeeker]

71. K & R

[tirebiter]

72. The Black Bloc in Berkley made Milo a hero to the Right

That's who deserves any criticism. Maher, Wilmore and Nance tore him to shreds.

[thbobby]

75. Bill Maher is human

Like all of, Maher cannot be definitively defined by broad terms like liberal or libertarian. People are too complex for that. I agree with much of what he says, but not all of what he says. The only person I agree with entirely is me and I get bored and overwhelmed when talking to myself.

[logosoco]

81. I like them both.

I follow both of them on social media because they both have interesting things to say.
I did tweet to Bill to mention the false statistics that Milo said when he is on the next show.

This show is pretty short (even with the Overtime), and with the guests he has and the topics they talk about, it would be pretty hard to really cover everything about a subject.

Maybe George could be a guest on the show! That would be interesting! I think a conversation with Bill and George would be pretty cool.

[Initech]

82. I would love to see George Takei debate Maher sometime.

Either on the panel or as one of the featured guests.

[njhoneybadger]

83. WOW! Can anybody say overreaction

[orleans]

84. welcome to du trumpocalypse

here's my two cents

i don't watch bill maher (i don't have cable). sometimes i'll see a clip or segment of his show on youtube

i used to watch him all the time when he was on abc (if memory serves) with politically incorrect.

overall & most of the time i really liked him but sometimes he came off like a douche

[liberalnarb]

85. What did he say?

[Oneironaut]

93. Bill Maher has consistently been a failure at defending LGBT rights.

People are forgetting the most obnoxious part - Bill Maher's complete agreement with Milo Yiannopoulos (a Conservative troll) that the student Milo mocked is a "confused man" who has no right to enter the women's bathroom. Sorry, but Maher was, is, and will always be a bigoted asshole.

[NurseJackie]

96. He's trying to "save" his failing show. It's the Springer / Maury approach.

[JCanete]

158. wait a second, that just isn't true. I just looked up the ratings. This is his most watched season

since his debut year. Where did you get that notion?

[NurseJackie]

159. Apparently it's working.

[JCanete]

94. good lord, it isn't defending his bigottedness. He's ignorant on shit. I'd rather people be upright

with their beliefs and discuss them freely than to live with what passes for discourse elsewhere. You can't change minds without having the conversations, and yes, Maher has some work to do.

I understand Takei's take on it. I think that Maher was falling to follow the plot, and I think he has a blind-spot there. All this shit about people either being white knights or evil hate-mongers and there being no in-between, and no opportunity to grow, is getting effing ridiculous.

[NurseJackie]

95. You act as if he's been living inside some sort of GOP bubble. He hasn't. He knows better ...

... he just doesn't care. It's not that he has "some work to do". That's like saying a an overflowing porti-potti needs a little "tidying-up" and maybe a spritz of Febreeze and all will be okay.

blah-bla-bla ... and no opportunity to grow, is getting effing ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is giving people the luxury of the benefit of the doubt when they don't need or deserve it.

[JCanete]

98. you may very well be right that he doesn't care. I'm not going to get into his motivations. But

hearing something isn't the same as really hearing something, and people in the mainstream change their minds on these things all the time. Where do you think Maher has been on gay marriage the last 10 years. Where was Obama?

Again, not defending him, but cautioning against rejecting everything about a person because of those areas where they disappoint.

[NurseJackie]

107. Sigh...

Again, not defending him, but cautioning against rejecting everything about a person because of those areas where they disappoint.

Then what's his motivation to change? If I (or anyone else) is willing to "tolerate" his wrongheaded bigotry in this area ... and we just "agree-to-disagree" (ugh!) then he just goes along on his merry way feeling relieved that he dodged a bullet.

It reminds me of the folks who boycotted Barilla because of some anti-gay comments made by the owner/s. From all other appearances, it was a perfectly fine company in every other way with regard to the things the social-conscious consumers care about. Yet, because of ONE area where they disappointed, consumers rejected EVERYTHING about the company... and guess what? Barilla changed. Imagine that!

Using your method of not rejecting everything because of one area where they disappoint would be the same as wagging a finger with one hand and giving them cash with the other. That's really not something that will motivate them to change?

I will, therefore, reject Maher completely until he changes.

Where do you think Maher has been on gay marriage the last 10 years. Where was Obama?

The yeahbuts and whattabouts don't apply. This isn't 2007. Maher hasn't been on the fringe of politics, he's not new to this shit. He knows what's what. He's a man of the world and he doesn't need to play both sides of the fence. He's not a politician who needs to play a delicate balancing game to "not offend / show-respect" in order to win votes and win elections.

This is a TOTAL FAIL on his part.

[JCanete]

147. I don't particularly disagree with anything you said here. It makes sense to choose where

to put your ratings/money..etc.

Ultimately I think his show is valuable because he provides a very public forum where people can disagree with him where he's wrong. He doesn't manage it and his guest choices or interactions in the way that CNN or FOX etc. do. But again, where you can speak with your dollars, I totally respect that choice, and if you are convinced he's just a shit-head or provocateur, rather than actually attempting to come to grips with some of this material, that's reasonable.

As to a company "changing," that's not the same as a person changing. It is surface level, and all about the dollars. That totally makes sense to demand that a company embody certain values, and I guess you could say that about HBO in this context. I'm not sure that applies the same to people, or at least I don't want a place where I expect people to be candid to be a place where they end up pandering. I find it too typical that some subjects are just avoided and people button up their actual beliefs on certain subjects because they think they are dangerous to publicly air. And generally, those ideas don't change, and they just find the communities where those ideas can be spoken in an echo chamber and reified, where they still spread from like mold in a damp room that doesn't let sun in.

Even if Maher doesn't have that problem, his show does provide opportunities for people who don't typically hear these ideas get challenged, to hear them get challenged.

Anyway, its reasonable to not like him personally, and there's no question he is a dick. I'm feeling ambiguous about my initial post's point, so I'll leave it at that.

[HAB911]

102. Bill Maher is not our enemy.....nt

[bathroommonkey76]

109. Politically correct people are.

Why do we do this to each other? It's fuckin stupid to criticize a comedian for an off-hand remark like this-- Imagine if Richard Pryor were starting out in today's BS/overreacting world. I'm 100% positive he'd be eviscerated for using the n-word every other sentence. Folks need to realize Maher is nothing but an entertainer... WHO HAPPENS TO BE A SUPPORTER OF LIBERAL IDEALS! Don't forget he also donated a million of his own money to Obama's reelection bid in 2012!

[NurseJackie]

111. Bullshit! This was not some unguarded "off-hand remark" ...

... Bill Maher knew from the outset who Milo is, what his views are, and the types of hateful things he's said. This was Maher's moment to shine. In his capacity as comedian/entertainer and advocate and political activist, Bill could have eviscerated Milo (point-by-point) on EVERY one of Milo's bullshit hate-filled statements.

Seriously-fuck... Bill even had a god-damned TYPED OUT LIST OF MILO QUOTES! How on earth could this be construed by any rational thinking person as being an "off-hand" remark that just sort of accidentally slipped out.

Jesus! He could have at least said "let's agree to disagree" if he wasn't prepared to debate that point and just wanted to gloss-it-over and move on to the next point. But he didn't even do that.

FUCK BILL MAHER!

[bathroommonkey76]

112. The comment sure as heck didn't bother me.

Irrational people need to understand that Maher has being performing comedy for over 40 years-- It's not like Bill should be placed on a pedestal with Edward R. Murrow and David Brinkley. My gay neighbor ran over to my door after he said this and was laughing uncontrollably at his trans comment. Guess we need to outlaw trans jokes along with a dark sense of humor, too?-- That's the vibe I'm getting from you. Will you be starting the petition to get him fired from HBO?

[HAB911]

117. there is a very sensitive thread

running through DU that I sometimes run up against, to the point I'm almost to afraid to voice an opinion.
I am not threatened by the little troll M.Y. or Maher's comment. Maher speaks the truth and many can't handle the truth

If this circular firing squad doesn't stop we'll never be in office again

[TrekLuver]

119. Yes...this....BIG TIME.

[Alice11111]

174. Few are100pc correct liberal, plus WHO is the DECIDER of what 100 pc is? Maher goes off the rails

Somerimes, but part of that is to create controversy and get debate going. That's why he invites jerks like Ann Coulter and G Norquist. Plus, he gets crossover conservatives to watch, which is good, they might learn something! Anyway, he is a commedian, not Prez of the US or an official policy commentator. What would it be if everyone just sat there and nodded yes to everthing?

We had Bernie people and Hillary people. Most didn't agree 100pc with either one. If we can't tolerate anyone with different views from our own, we'll elect more DT's. The rigid PC of some of our people alienated a lot of voters. I am for the TPP, like Obama. Hillary?, Bernie, Stein, Johnson and DT are against it. Well, i didnt vote for Jeb! or L Graham, just because they were right on that one issue. There were many other issues, and you have to look at all. Plus, in Bill M's case, he has to exploit the humor and controversy of the issues.

Every once in a while, i get pissed at Maher and turn him off. He pushes the limits, and he doesn't try, and can't, make everyone happy all of the time. I abhor racism, but in spite of his inappropriate comments at times, I dont think he is a racist. He has a different view.
I did not watch the show with Milo because I can't stand him.
Even CPAC withdrew his speaking invitation because of his comments which seemed to promote the
Sex abuse of children. Then, he tried to walk it back. He said something like, he had the priests to thank for teaching him about sex, and all little boys have to learn. I think he is done for though, and I am glad. 15 minutes of fame or whatever.

[bathroommonkey76]

130. Don't be afraid.

Speak your mind-- This forum is like the real world... Some people are gonna like you... And some are not going to like you for having a FUCKING SENSE OF HUMOR! lol

[Humanist_Activist]

177. What was funny about what either Milo said or Maher agreed to?

If you are going to use the comedian defense, where was the fucking joke?

[bathroommonkey76]

182. Maher's being lynched by melodramatic libs.

I sure wasn't laughing about anything Milo said. You're welcome to re-watch the video and tell me every part of the show that I should laugh at. Give me specifics, too. Should I laugh, chuckle, roll my eyes, or get overly bent out of shape over a comment from the panel-members?

Who said I had to give my defense to you?

I'm not here to give you lectures about what I think is funny-- But I'm guessing you are going to tell me what I should laugh about in this life, right?

Do you tell every person you come across your definition of FUNNY?

When a person laughs does there have to be a joke?

Do you sit on the left or right side of the morality circle-jerk that you attend?

[EffieBlack]

216. "Lynched?"

Privilege certainly has its privileges . . .

[bathroommonkey76]

217. So does being politically correct.

N/t

[EffieBlack]

219. Calling out bigotry is "political correctness" only to those who aren't its target

Funny how those who whine about "political correctness" are the first to scream bloody murder when their widdle feewings get huht at the very thought that anyone objects to THEIR comments.

Privilege indeed . . .

[bathroommonkey76]

222. Widdle feewings

Are you speaking of yourself?

My feelings haven't been hurt by anyone in this thread.

Tell me what is funny.
Tell me what I can laugh at in this life.

The people who really get bent out of shape are the ones who take an off-hand remark by a COMEDIAN and run to the hashtag boycott lines of #WhinyAndSpoiledBabies #FAKEOUTRAGE

People like you: "Ah, Bill didn't say what I thought he should say. How dare he do something like that!"

(Insert cry-baby face)



Other people who knows he's a comedian: "Who cares?"

Some people forget the fact that Bill Maher is on a comedy show-- he's not the Dem version of the Pope.

Humor is subjective- always has been.

[HAB911]

180. Well their hair trigger

on the alert button does give pause and I'm teetering on the edge and under very strict orders at this point

[Humanist_Activist]

183. Perhaps you should not violate the rules so much, just a suggestion...

If you want sympathy, you have come to the wrong poster. I've had plenty of posts hidden over the years, and know which ones were my fault(usually personal attacks) and which ones weren't, but that's a story for another time. Don't whine about getting posts hidden when you violate the rules.

[HAB911]

184. stating an opinion

should not be a 'violation' IMO. No personal attacks, and btw, I'm not whining, just stating facts.

[Humanist_Activist]

190. Depends on the opinion, generally attacking Democrats is frowned upon, as is attacking people...

based on race, religion, gender, gender identity and sexual orientation, in other words, bigotry is frowned upon too. Not saying the rules are enforced, far too many things jurors let slide, that's why both sides could, if you wanted to, appeal to the admins.

[bathroommonkey76]

185. Do folks use the alert button against you often?

I already see that someone has used the "bigot" word-- You sure don't want to be labeled a bigot by some anon person in a progressive forum. Those types of things can follow you for life. lol

[HAB911]

186. LOL, on the topics

of pro-sports and guns ONLY. NEVER where bigotry is concerned. I don't know where that came from.

[Humanist_Activist]

176. Frankly speaking, if you find that you are afraid to voice an opinion because you...

are afraid you will be labeled a bigot, perhaps its best if you keep that opinion to yourself otherwise you may remove all doubt.

[HAB911]

181. sorry, nothing to do with being labeled anything

all to do with being alerted out of existence for an opinion statement

thanks for your concern however.

[Trumpocalypse]

116. Depends who you define 'our'

If your definition of our includes Muslims and Transgender people then he is.

[Duppers]

108. Milo is an asshole.

Being trans doesn't make him less of one.

Bill Maher has gays folks on all the time & has gay friends. I'm sorry that dear George doesn't understand that it was that particular conversation, not the fact that Milo is trans.

[NurseJackie]

110. Huh-wha-what?! WTF are you talking about?

[JenniferJuniper]

114. Milo isn't trans.

He's gay, although he say he might undergo gay conversion therapy. I don't think I believe him.

He also believes men should be legally able to have sex with 13 year old boys.

[Trumpocalypse]

124. Milo was trashing trans people

and Maher was agreeing with him. That is what George was objecting to.

[Duppers]

128. Wow, thanks.

Milo trashing them is rich! Crazy. And Bill Maher agreeing with him! Oh damn!

You saw this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028681385

[MindPilot]

125. I'm one more..Maher is not a bigot.

That is all.

[NurseJackie]

132. Unless you're Transgendered or Muslim. (That is all.)

[MindPilot]

135. Oh god now I need eye bleach!!

That is one ugly authoritarian.

[Beaverhausen]

133. Did you watch the show and after show?

[MindPilot]

134. I did.

I've also been in the studio audience of Bill's show, and a couple of his standup performances.

[Trumpocalypse]

150. He isn't???

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.711833
http://www.alternet.org/media/19-dumbest-most-bigoted-things-bill-maher-has-ever-said
http://www.mintpressnews.com/bill-maher-is-anti-war-except-when-it-comes-to-israel/207073/
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/reza-aslan-slams-maher-for-facile-arguments-about-muslim-violence/

[Honeycombe8]

199. I agree. Maher is not a bigot, that I know of.

He holds some views about Israel and Palestinians, but that isn't based on bigotry, just because some others disagree. Very reasonable people hold different views on that complicated and long standing area.

I think he's one of the quickest wits, very funny off the cuff or in giving a planned monologue, and has contributed much over the years to the left side of politics, with his political satire and boldly stated views, and willingness to discuss anything and everything (and usu. win) with people across the political spectrum.

Despite him being male, I don't view him as masogynistic. He's said a few things I don't like, but in general, he is one on one with smart women on his show. He doesn't interrupt them more than he interrupt the male guests, and he relates to them like the real people they are. He doesn't make disparaging comments, that I've heard, about the appearance of women (like Trump does), although he does make comments about women he thinks are hot babes (if they are in the news or political...and only sometimes, usu. for a joke).

I like him. He's funny. He's not hateful at all.

[demmiblue]

129. I have always found that Maher is a self-important, smarmy little libertarian shit.

Therefore, I haven't watched him in years.

I may, though, watch Wilmore's take down of Milo.

[NurseJackie]

136. Isn't it a pity that Wilmore's take-down was during the UNAIRED "Overtime" segment?

I'll bet a dollar that fewer than 1/4 of the people who watched (or DVR'd) the show tuned in for the live-streaming "Overtime" segment.

His show is tired, predictable, formulaic, whiny, self-important ... and I agree, he's crossed over into the "smarmy". He can't even laugh at himself whenever one of his jokes fails. Instead he blames and scolds his audience for being "too sensitive" or "too stupid" to appreciate his genius.

Fuck Bill Maher.

HBO should redirect and give Larry Wilmore a shot ... and recommit to John Oliver.

[MindPilot]

137. For as much as you loathe the guy, you sure seem to be hooked on the show.

Don't like it, don't watch.

[NurseJackie]

138. Why does my scorn for him make you so angry? It's as if you're taking it personally.

Don't like it, don't watch.

Well, yes... not watching is one option. That's a bit passive, don't you think? It's the equivalent of doing nothing and just going about your daily routine as if nothing is wrong and that everything is acceptable. But, voicing my displeasure and disappointment is another.

And... hey... guess what? I can do BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. (Imagine that!)

The fact that I've watched the show before, doesn't invalidate my anger. The fact that I no longer watch the show does not preclude me from criticizing him. These things are not mutually incompatible.

[MindPilot]

140. I'm not one who's angry...

"...doesn't invalidate my anger.."

So whatever...I think we have to (and I hate this phrase but I'm gonna use it anyway) agree to disagree on this one.

[NurseJackie]

142. So you're not angry, but *do* take it personally ... that's good to know.

Yep, I agree with you on that one item. I loathe and avoid using that phrase if at all possible. Frankly, I think it's kind of a cop-out as well. The only benefit is that it can be a strategic way to delay providing an immediate response or rebuttal, and it allows for taking a breather and a moment to prepare and compose and organize an appropriate response.

What a pity that Bill Maher couldn't even muster something as simple as "let's agree to disagree".

[Orrex]

139. Careful

Maher is a sacred cow around here, and his fans won't tolerate criticism of him.

[MicaelS]

141. Probably because criticism of Maher

Brings out the Purity Police, who scream bigot whenever Maher does not "toe the line" of their view of what being a Leftist should be.

[MindPilot]

143. And they seem to forget that people on TV are entertainers, not political operatives.

Maher, like every other talkshow host has to be reasonably polite--and somewhat agreeable--with guests or he won't get anybody with opposing views to appear.

And there would not be a show, because watching a bunch of people who agree with each other talking about politics is really pretty boring.

[Orrex]

146. Yes, that's the other predictable Maher defense

At all times he is a brilliant social commentator who dares to speak truth to power, while he is simultaneously "an entertainer" who shouldn't be held accountable for his flaws, habits, or comments.

Must be nice, having it both ways like that. All of the benefit and none of the accountability.

[MindPilot]

155. Then get your own show.

No doubt the folks over at HBO would think that "Pure Liberal Talk with Orrex' would be a big hit what with all that accountability and stuff.

Your criticism has risen to the level of absurdity.

[Orrex]

163. Yes, criticism can only be voiced by those who can do better

In other words, if your surgeon fucks up your appendectomy and leaves you paralyzed, you'd better damn well not complain about it unless you're a better surgeon.

[NurseJackie]

207. The other dismissive variation they're using is "Don't like him? Don't watch him!" Of course ...

... this retort lacks any substance whatsoever and is just a reworded way of saying "shut up, move on, get over it" and "no criticism allowed".

It's they type of passive-aggressive fall-back response someone gives when they're intellectually cornered and when they really have no rational or thoughtful arguments that can be made in actual defense of the person (or policy) they support.

[Orrex]

144. Yes, that is always and invariably the pro-Maher response

It's interesting that his fans never quite claim that he isn't a bigoted, sexist asshole; they simply insist that these laudable characteristics should be welcome under any liberal tent, presumably because Maher the Stopped Clock says the right thing now and then.

Further, anyone who doesn't embrace Maher the Good Liberal is foolishly mocked for demanding "purity tests." That's a convenient defense mechanism, because it spares you from actually having to address Maher's flaws.


Entirely predictable.

[MindPilot]

160. Well your first sentance is clearly inaccurate...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028679490#post125

[Orrex]

161. Glad to see that you agree with the rest

I can't see the tweet, by the way, so my "sentance" was accurate based on available information.

[MindPilot]

164. What tweet are you talking about? There's no tweet.

And I never said I agreed with anything you said. I merely stated your first "sentence" is demonstrably incorrect.

"125. I'm one more..Maher is not a bigot."

[Orrex]

166. Curious--your in-thread link brought me to the OP

But this time it worked. Who knows?

Ok, I applaud you for claiming that he isn't a bigot. I (and reality) disagree, but ok.

Even if we stipulate that, it still leaves him with "sexist asshole."

Yes, he's a fine ol' liberal all right.

[MicaelS]

170. Ah yes, the "bigot" claim because he dares

Criticize Islam. Since Islam appears to be the current darling of the Left, and anyone who criticizes the beliefs of Islam or its adherents is deemed a bigot.

Despite the fact he bashes religion all the way around.

Sounds like those on the Right who scream bigotry, and claim Christians are persecuted because people deign to criticize and condemn Christianity and Christians.

[Orrex]

171. No, that's not it.

He's a bigot because, among other reasons, he supports racial profiling.

I have no problem with his views on religion.

Sounds like those on the Right who scream bigotry, and claim Christians are persecuted because people deign to criticize and condemn Christianity and Christians.

No, it sounds nothing like that. I can see why you really want it to sound that way, but it actually doesn't.

Here's an article that I'm sure you'll dismiss.

[Humanist_Activist]

178. That is not why he's called a bigot, Jesus, get a fucking grip...

Islam is a religion chock full of bad ideas. That belongs in the "no shit Sherlock" category.

[MicaelS]

189. Oh no, you can't say that around here.

That is considered bigotry. I criticized Islam and was told my statements were bigoted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8684873

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8685667

[Humanist_Activist]

191. You are being called out for falsely suggesting that Muslims are the only ones who...

commit religious motivated violence.

I don't even see a criticism of Islam itself, just you making false, and bigoted claims about Muslims, there's a clear fucking difference there.

[EffieBlack]

220. Did we accidentally stumble onto a Breitbart comment section?

[Humanist_Activist]

227. No idea, I'm really puzzled by this tremendous concern about Islam in the West...

for fuck's sake, you are more likely to die in an unlikely household accident involving an errant projectile doorknob than be a victim of Islamic terrorism pretty much anywhere in the Americas and Europe. Your fucking backyard pool is more dangerous, people need to get a grip on reality here. The people who are most likely to be the victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims.

[EffieBlack]

229. I'm not so puzzled that this concern exists among certain people in the West . . .

It is puzzling that so many so-called "liberals" not only hold but defiantly express such views on DU.

[TrekLuver]

145. Thank you!

[demmiblue]

167. Dollars to donuts, many of them are probably also Stern fans. n/t

[hrmjustin]

157. Not a fan of Maher at all.

[wryter2000]

162. Maher is also a misogynist.

I gave up watching him ages ago. That way I also don't have to put up with his phobia about religion.

[TDale313]

169. Yes, on both counts.

[vi5]

201. So demanding purity of our politicians who we actually elect to represent us is bad....

...but demanding purity of our entertainers is good?

Maher has a lot of shitty opinions, but he is also way more liberal on way more issues than more than a few of our elected Democrats who do way more damage to our country and who we are told time and again on here that we have to tolerate and put up with because we have a big tent and there is room for differences.

In this particular instance I side way more with George than I do Bill. But if I'm going to be told to be tolerant and patient with our big tent party then that is going to apply to entertainers who I may sometimes disagree with as well.

[Trumpocalypse]

204. Not demanding purity but calling out bigotry

and not turning a blind eye to it because the bigot agrees with us on many issues.

[EffieBlack]

218. Interesting how folks circle the wagon at the mere suggestion that one of their own might be a bigot

Tribalism and privilege on full view . . .

[JI7]

206. "we" don't elect all politicians to represent us

only the presidential candidates are voting by all nationally.

the rest are state and local level. and people within those vote on them.

and with maher the issue is bigotry. he allowed milo to lie about transgender people being the most dangerous and violent of all people.

[melman]

224. He's a lot more liberal

than most of the posters here.

[Trumpocalypse]

225. That doesn't excuse his bigotry.

[EffieBlack]

232. Be careful . . .

I just learned in this thread that not excusing bigotry makes you a bigot . . .

Strange times, indeed.

[Trumpocalypse]

234. LOL!

Unfortunately some people think that just because Maher agrees with them on most issues he shouldn't be criticized. That's the cult of personality. I don't believe in litmus tests but if someone on the left does or says something bad, I'm going to call them on it. Otherwise we are no better than blind Trump supporters.

[vi5]

230. And some of the policies many on here are o.k. with...

..and their support of the politicians that endorse and vote for them are way more harmful and regressive to minorities than Bill Maher just not calling out someone on their idiocy and bigotry.

[Jim Beard]

208. Bill Mahar is an entertainer and I watch people who please me when I consume my time with them.

It that time becomes more unpleasant than pleasant, I simply find something else.

[Rex]

221. Pfft...Maher can only dream of being on the same level.

Takei is a living legend.