If one more person tells me I need to try to understand Trump voters or

[Are_grits_groceries]

get to know the issues that concern them, I will dance all over they heads.

I have lived with and am related to many of these people, and at the bottom of it all for many, they are just mad. They want to get 'theirs' back from everybody who took it from them. They think the only reason they aren't rolling in the good life is that immigrants, POC and whoever else got it.

What 'It' consists of is some amorphous basket of things they think they are entitled to.

Before the election, I talked to them about losing the ACA, SS, Medicare, clean water, and gawd knows whar else. They would not listen. They did not believe me.

I quoted the Bible them and they shrugged. They turned their backs on every religious and American value they had so loudly thrown about for years.

I.HAVE.HAD.IT.

I will not coddle them or give them one more inch. Believe me I tried.

I AM OUT OF 'BE SWEET.'
If I knew what would work to let them see a glimmer of what is happening, I might still try. I don't think watching a nuclear explosion in the distance would matter to them.

So, for those of you who still want to try. Have at it. I have been around this for YEARS.

They can go to hell.

Edit to add: I kept hearing that I didn't know how mad Trumpkins were.
Well, I am pissed beyond all measure. They ain't seen mad yet. Touch SS or Medicare.

[msanthrope]

1. Damn straight. And that goes double for any 3rd party purity voter. Fuck 'em. nt

[ProfessorGAC]

6. For Me, Ms. Those People Are Worse Too

A protest vote with this much at stake? That's even more willfully stupid than those who voted for "it". My guess is that the Stein and Johnson voters are somewhat better informed which makes their positions even less defensible.

[PJMcK]

20. Exactly this

Politics is a zero-sum game: you either win or you lose. A "protest vote" is a waste of time and only helps our political foes.

[maddiemom]

106. When I came of age to vote, you still had to be twenty-one.

Even if I voted as a protest in my twenties, it was only in the primaries. My vote went to the liberal/Democrat in the general election. One local congressman, who was one of the "good Republicans" back when there still were some, was the only Republican who always got my vote. A few very local Republicans ran on that ticket only because my hometown was hardcore Republican back then. Last fall, I voted for Bernie in the primary, but worked hard for Hillary afterwards. Protests votes and staying home are insane when someone like Trump is the alternative. Jill Stein really annoyed me with her "recount thing." Way too late. Sorry, but Nader pissed me off in 2000, as well.

[ProfessorGAC]

130. For Me, The Change Happened When i Was 20.

So, voted one year earlier than you did. Couldn't vote for governor because the law was still 21, then 2 years later could vote for Carter.

I've never missed a statewide or national election. I've sat out a couple local elections because half the alderman seats run unopposed, i don't care who the animal control director is, and the mayor is a figurehead. Besides, in a small town, once a small businessman or woman becomes mayor, unless they piss people off, they just win over and over again. Even if opposed, they win 80:20. And, it doesn't much matter to me who the mayor is as long as they aren't an idiot. We had one. He lasted 4 years and out.

[yardwork]

114. Agreed.

[MarianJack]

58. My stance is that...

...if you voted third party, sat on your ass and didn't vote or wrote Sanders in, than you voted to make Donald Rump (aka "F**knead) the Grand Wizard of the United States!

2016 was F**khead against Hillary Clinton, and that's IT!

#notmypresident
#readyforCaroline

PEACE!

[Aristus]

83. I agree. I long ago realized that anyone here lambasting Hillary Clinton in favor of

Sanders, especially after the primary season was over, was just a Trump supporter who was too scared to admit it.

No one with any real progressive ideals believes that Hillary Clinton is the same as Donald Trump.

Ideologically, Sanders is the candidate I would have supported. But when he didn't get the nomination, I transferred my support to Hillary without a single qualm.

[mdbl]

127. nothin' but rice pudding between their ears

that explains the trump voter.

[ck4829]

2. +1, if you want sweetness, you've got to give it

In my circle of people I know, I include a refugee from Iraq and a young woman from Morocco, they are both total sweethearts and I see them as extended family... They are also both of members of some of the groups the Trumpian Right doesn't like very much.

I will take them over "Not my problem" and "Your turn to suffer now, liberal" any day of the week.

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. I got all the sweetness in the world

for 'the least, the last, and the lost.'

The RW momsers? Meh!

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. I don't get the, "your turn to suffer now, liberal " crap. How

did they suffer under liberals? Do they have an honest or even a valid answer to that? Plus, why don't they blame their party since repubs where in control for the most part, causing a great deal of suffering? Idiots don't even know where to place the real blame.

[HughBeaumont]

32. I'm even laughing my ass off at the "Liberal" part.

Who are these "liberals" in American government?

Most of America's government ranges from center-left to hyper-batshit right wing. Since 2010, the hyper-batshit right wing has been in control.

These fucks want to blame anyone, they should take advice from their hero Herman Cain and BLAME THEMSELVES!!!

[mreilly]

64. These idiots just think it's them vs liberals

They literally have no concept of a world bigger or more complex than "them" and "liberals." No, it's not possible that any of Trump's opponents might represent an array of political views from conservative all the way back to liberal, like the dial of a radio. Nope, nope, nope, everyone who despises Trump is just some extreme far left "libtard" and everyone to the right of them loves wonderful Donald Trump. So much easier than actually thinking.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

63. Rush et al tells them they suffered and that liberaalllls caused it.

Period.

[Bettie]

103. Well, according to my RW brothers

and my in-laws, they suffered by having a Kenyan in the White House.

And, from the older of my two brothers "you know, it's call the WHITE house for a reason and he doesn't belong there".

[avebury]

3. K&R nt

[underpants]

5. There is no way to communicate with many of them

They only believe what the Dear Leader says regardless of it making any sense or being Earthbound fact based to start with. They'll turn on anyone who dares question the medicine man. They are delusional.

[FailureToCommunicate]

7. Bless your heart for even trying with them. Sadly, the "news" they hear is leaving out

Last edited Tue Feb 21, 2017, 10:44 AM - Edit history (1)

most of the avalanche of crap the rest of us in the real world are bombarded with every damn day of his new administration.

It **may** be fruitful to just focus on fixing gerrymandering, and on all the zillions of voters that slept in, were too busy, voted for some libertarian loser, or didn't like our candidates, to convince them to GET OFF their butts and do the right thing next time.

As for the Trumplins? 'Some folks you just can't reach...'

[Roy Rolling]

8. Well bless your heart

Not all old(er) people like us will go quietly into the night. First, they mocked us . . .


Edit: I was composing this while failureToCommuicate with the same thought beat me to it. Great minds think alike. Maybe it's the grits? I don't know, where I am we make groceries once a week. LOL

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Blind rage at such voters doesn't help your health or improve the Democratic Party's outcomes. nt

[GetRidOfThem]

54. But what is the solution?

On the one hand, the economic downturn of the rust belt and small town America is real, and that requires empathy as well as socioeconomic policies to soften the blow, and yes, we Democrats have had a hard time with the latter, not because we did not believe in socioeconomic policies, but because we are constantly being blocked by the right.

On the other hand, they, the victims of the economic changes at hand, keep on handing power to that same right. Why? Because that right plays to their anger, fear, and prejudices on things that have nothing to do with the causes of their economic malaise, or the solution. And these voters refuse to see this, out of pure stubbornness.

So yes, this is very aggravating, and is does make you angry at these voters, not only because they are screwing themselves, but in the process everybody else, too, maybe now even the whole world. And over time this anger turns into rage. I can fully empathize.

[cheyanne]

82. The solution is economic It is the same reason that they voted for Trump.

Not only are they the victims of the economy (which the Republicans crashed) but also of generations of Republicans telling them who the enemy is: Democrats.

When you and your family have listened to right wing radio telling you that you are the salt of the earth and that the democrats and minorities are the cause of all societal ills, you have been given the problem and the solution to your economic stress.

When a world view suddenly gets shaken, you don't think "it must be because of the Republicans". The republicans have been warning you for years that it's the democrats, so when the economy craters, the republicans say "see I told you so". You don't turn your back on your world view. It's just been confirmed by the economic crash.

When a group of people feel that their way of life is challenged, they circle the wagons and find an enemy. . . and a demagogue.

Their views are not going to change until we have economic security. That is not going to be any time soon with Trump in charge, in fact, he could very well crash the economy again . . .

Some of these people will get tired of waiting for Trump to actually turn the economy around . . .

[Blue_true]

108. The Problem.

Smart machines (robots, artificial intelligence apps) are eliminating human workers, while concentrating wealth more in the hands of the already wealthy. Yes, we will occasionally have not wealthy people create a Microsoft or Apple and become obscenely rich, but 99% of Americans will see their income drop as smart machines take an expanding number of job classifications.

The only solution is a completely new economic model along the lines of European Social Democracy on steroids. In that model, capitalism exists, but capitalists can only take a limited amount, the rest is shared with the rest of society extensively. Under this model, work will still be valued and people that want them can still have luxuries beyond what is needed to be happy and content. In that system, every living person would be guaranteed a livable income that would supply their basis needs at a level where they are never destitute - such benefits would allow for luxuries like vacations and travel.

Most Democrats are afraid to propose the only economic model that will allow everyone to live in peace, free of fear, because they would be attacked as being socialists. In fact, the required system is anything but socialism, it is the only system that will allow capitalism to survive and thrive as smart machines impose their grip on more and more jobs.

[mdbl]

129. The solution is not economic

Economics have been coupled with right wing bullcrap of untruths. That's what has to be dealt with.

[WinkyDink]

80. Did you even read the OP's post? The "rage" is QUITE CLEAR-EYED. But thanks for the condescension.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

92. Yes, I read the OP's post. Your post title is quite insincere. . . . nt

[mdbl]

128. It certainly put the tea party in power

All i get from trump voters is blind rage at liberals, some that don't even exist. How do you fight a ghost?

[Vinca]

10. I'm especially annoyed at the ones whining about no jobs. Last week I saw a news item about

the small city of Rutland, Vermont, and how they're encouraging immigrants to relocate there because they have so many unfilled jobs. The late comedian Sam Kinison used to do a piece about people who were starving that ended with him screaming "Go to where the food is." I would suggest people who cannot find a suitable job consider moving to where the jobs are. One Trump voter really made me bang my head on a brick wall. She lamented the loss of her good-paying job when the dress factory closed its doors. Then they showed a picture of the derelict building. Does she not know her lord and savior Donald J. Trump manufactures his suits in Mexico and his ties in China???????? He's the reason the damn dress factory is closed.

[logosoco]

11. They are their own worst enemy.

And pretty selfish and heartless to boot.

This morning I feel like going on FB and telling all (which I don't have a lot of Rep. leaning folks, but anyway!) to unfriend me. With the news that Legal Services and Americorps are on the chopping block, anyone who voted for anyone with an R after their name is now actively against me and the things I hold dear. (Not to mention the guy who heads the EPA is an enemy of the earth).

They have forgotten we are all connected. I don't know how they wake up in the morning and feel good about being alive when they seem to enjoy the misery of others. No love there at all.

[get the red out]

33. YES!

They are their worst enemy.

[FiveGoodMen]

122. But WE suffer for it.

Particularly, certain groups do.

[voteearlyvoteoften]

12. 👍🏻 Yep

[brooklynite]

13. Okay, I'll tell you...

You don't need to understand ALL Trump voters, you need to understand some of them. Because SOME of them used to be Obama voters.

It's easy to say they're all racist, sexist, mysoginistic bigots. Because then we don't have to identify our own flaws. The ones that lost us MI, PA, OH and WI.

Some people voted for Trump because they were frustrated by their economic situation and didn't see "establishment" politicians of either Party addressing THEIR problems. So they went with a desperation choice. THEY can and MUST be brought back to the Democratic side. And venting at them won't help.

[Cosmocat]

17. nonsense

Do you think that republicans "tried to understand" the vile, evil liberals to get these people to vote Trump?

When was the last time, hell, name ONE FUCKING TIME AT ALL, that republicans sat around conversating about "we really need to listen to and understand democrats ..."

What democrats need to do is STAND FOR SOMETHING.

THAT is what truly differentiates the two parties.

And, that does not mean having things that WE believe in collectively for the most part.

That means getting a unified platform, simplifed message and having our ELECTED OFFICIALS fight for it like their lives depended on it.

Bill Clinton was spot on when he said "better to be wrong and strong than right and weak."

THAT is why republicans have control of all of government - they are literally wrong on everything, but they are tougher, more focused, more united and would cut throats without thinking to win.

While ... our elected leaders hide in corners and our side babbles about trying to "understand" their insanity.

[brooklynite]

22. Thank you for proving my point...

Your interpretation of the Republicans is exactly the same: that everyone outside of their bubble is "Vile" and "evil". The reality is that there are people in the middle who can be swayed to either side. In 2006 and 2008 and 2012 they shifted to the Republican side; in 2010 (before redistricting) and 2014 they shifted to the Republicans.

[Cosmocat]

36. What?

You are in your own little disconnected bubble.

My point, VERY CLEARLY, was that we need to STAND for something. To have clear messaging, be united and speak to what we believe in like our lives depend on it.

While pointing out the fecklessness of spending time and energy trying to "understand' stupidity.

[Mars and Minerva]

27. Yep

It had to be said.

[HughBeaumont]

31. Er . . . . it doesn't get any more "Establishment" than Trump.

Considering that his commerce secretary ALONE is worth 10 times as much as the entire Dubya Cabinet, they cannot claim this vote had anything to do with being "anti-Establishment". COME on.

[MrPurple]

123. Fake news! Fake news!

I didn't hear Drudge or Breitbart say anything about that.

[LanternWaste]

42. "A small handful of them" rather than "some of them" would be more accurate.

"A small handful of them" rather than "some of them" would be more accurate.

Even then, 'need' is inaccurate, as well. Desire? Sure. Want? Probably? Need? No... that's simply bias.

[kcr]

93. Good article in the NYT showing how you're wrong

It's a popular opinion right now based on a myth.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/opinion/move-left-democrats.html

From the article:
To be clear, all white voters matter. But Democrats must make tough, data-driven decisions about how to prioritize their work. Right now, too many are using bad math and faulty logic to push the party to chase the wrong segment of white voters. For example, Guy Cecil, who spent nearly $200 million as head of the progressive “super PAC” Priorities USA, urged the party to rebuild trust with the “millions of white voters who voted for President Obama and Donald Trump.”

The math underlying that conclusion is incorrect (Mr. Trump picked up not “millions,” but only 784,000 white votes in the 10 battleground states he won by single digits). And it misses the bigger — and more fixable — problem of white Democratic defections to third- and fourth-party candidates.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

99. You're 100% right...but you are also wasting your breath

Trying to speak the truth about this issue will only cause some to get all butt hurt and alert on your post and accuse you of posting right wing talking points. It's so fucking stupid. Apparently some people would just rather LOSE than get their shit together. Guess they like Trump more than you and I do.

[Blue_true]

111. You are wrong.

We win with a practical, yet visionary message that is clearly stated. We don't win by coddling the Archie Bunker types that vote Democrat only as long as we back away from rights for segments of our society that were long denied basic human and economic rights. The Obama voters that left for economic reasons will come back when they see and experience the damage that Trump has and will cause. The true Trump voters are beyond recovery, those people wake up hating something or someone every single morning and view us as their pure enemy. Another group that deserves scorn is the third party voters and Bernie write ins - people that can't see a clear and present danger, even if it looked them in the face before kicking them in the ass.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

121. No, you are wrong because you assume all Trump voters are "Archie Bunker types"

And they are NOT. You are also very wrong that anyone votes Democrat "only as long as they back away from minority groups." That's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard. Why the fuck is it SO DIFFICULT to actually understand that people of color don't have a lock on poverty and struggles? Democrats lost those voters NOT because they fight for minority groups. Democrats lost those voters because they stopped giving a shit about the non-minority voters. Jesus H. Christ do Democrats not know how to fucking MULTI-Task? YOU.CAN.DO.BOTH. And for the love of Pete...if they can't represent BOTH groups equally then they fucking deserve to lose.

I honest to God do NOT understand why so many people on this site have such an "either/or" mentality. Liberty and Justice for mother-fucking ALL! Christ!

/rant off

[Humanist_Activist]

107. Where is the evidence that a significant fraction of Trump voters were Obama voters?

I keep seeing this being claimed, with no evidence from what I can tell. It appears that many people who voted for Obama in a few states simply didn't show up to the polls at all(or were prevented from doing so), not that a lot of people flipped from Obama to Trump.

[Blue_true]

110. I respect you, so don't take this wrong.

The former Obama voters helped elect republican governors and legislatures to rule their states. There is a legitimate question as to whether they will listen to a reasoned argument on why their votes for republicans and Trump is wrong for them. A lot of those people elect politicians that "buy" jobs from companies that stay around only as long as the tax breaks keep coming. Innovators that have amazing ideas and local roots, but no money to start and nurture businesses are ignored by elected governors and legislature that trip over themselves to offer tax breaks and development funds to the big manufacturer that will stay only as long as some other state or country doesn't offer them a better deal.

Talking to Trump voters that voted for him on economic grounds involves making a complex argument that is stated in simple, easy to understand terms - that is where Obama excelled and Hillary fell short, as well as Obama regularly visited those areas while campaigning and Hillar did not visit.

To the Stein and Johnson voters and those that wrote in Bernie in the General, FUCK those people, no amount of hell can rain down on them that would make me feel for them.

[Cosmocat]

14. Here is the thing - until THE ENTIRE COUNTRY reaches this point

we will forever be sucked into whatever rat hole the assholes drag us into - the Iraq War, the never ending life and death battles to prevent the idiots from privatizing SS and Medicaid, raiding the tax payers education dollars, eviscerating our environment, letting profiteers blow up our economy ...

People don't get it, and republicans get all out raged, but I have LONG, and openly said, the biggest problem this country has is indulging conservative fuck wittery.

[Freedomofspeech]

15. I totally agree.

I am fortunate to have many "fellow travelers" in my circle of friends but the few acquaintances who voted for Shitler have been deep sixed. There is nothing to understand about why they voted for this insane clown. I cannot breathe the same air they do.

[Starry Messenger]

16. They voted to dump my health insurance.

I'm feeling more anxious about my life and future than I have in years, but I'm supposed to be saving them? Fuck that.

[Nitram]

18. Maybe we need to put anti-psychotic medication in the water of the states that voted for Trump.

[MindPilot]

79. An antidepressants in the water of those that didn't.

[kentuck]

19. Most telling...

A recent poll showed that 87% of Republican voters supported Donald Trump. As compared to the average of 83%. They love him.

[lunasun]

78. And they are not all out of work or down and out . Plenty of wealthy repukes love him like crazy

Thier dream is near!
Liberals are losers to them so why would they listen?
Would most dems be swayed to thinking they made a mistake and they should have voted for Romney after Obama was elected? Because some republican said I feel for you and want you to think about how it would be if Romney had won??
Why do people think trump voters are different ?
they need to work it out themselves if they desire but unlikely

[Trust Buster]

21. I agree that Chump voters are a lost cause and that we should try to light a fire under the 46% of

the electorate that couldn't be bothered to vote. But there are many strains of Chump voters;

1 - The fundies that look the other way because the Supreme Court and Judiciary hang in the balance. These folks would embrace Hades if they thought that it would get them closer to imposing their faux religious beliefs on America.

2 - The truly racist, misogynistic and homophobic who see Chump as their champion. A reset that they can support. The unbelievably foolish who think that they can turn the clock back to the 1950's.

3 - The economically anxious. These folks knew for two decades that a high school education alone would not bode well for their economic futures. Rather than look in the mirror to find the real culprit, they blame women, minorities and immigrants for their plight. If it wasn't for them, these uneducated white folk would be making six figures. Chump tapped into these people very skillfully. They chose to believe a guy who manufactures his clothes line in foreign countries and staffs his Florida resorts with foreign visa workers. While they wait for BIG COAL to come back.

[Laurian]

38. I have a sister-in-law who is squarely in category #1.

I cannot reconcile religious devotion with voting for Trump, but her fervent opposition to abortion drives her every utterance and action. I find her intolerance and hypocrisy abhorrent.

[Trust Buster]

40. I have a brother and sister in law that moved to Florida and became Southern Baptists.

They would vote for anyone that increases the chances of making abortion illegal and turning our schools into Bible revivals. Chump is just their useful idiot. He literally could have shot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose their vote.

[BumRushDaShow]

45. This sums it up nicely.

[hunter]

72. Most Trump voters I know are your category one -- religious zealots who think God chose Trump.

It's all about imposing their cruel, twisted, and intolerant "Christian" religious views on everyone else.

There's not a wit of difference between them and the other religious zealots they fear, especially Islamic fundamentalists.

[shrike]

95. Also, higher income voters who are salivating for tax cuts

Why do you think the stock market is going up the way it is?

[Paladin]

23. I'm with you. I've written those people off as a danger to the country.

I always knew such people existed; the only thing this past election proved to me is that there are a lot more of them than I imagined.

[RKP5637]

43. I often wondered during WWII how people could be convinced to do such evil, to be

monstrous. Now I see, and it's chilling.

[Paladin]

66. The only way trump can do his immigration "reforms" is with concentration camps.

I promise you, they're going to happen---and trump's people will bow down to him for doing it.

[RKP5637]

77. Code word likely equals his detention centers that he wants significantly increased. n/t

[Snarkoleptic]

25. Rude Pundit nailed it-

"We're still doing a "liberals need to be nicer to racists" dance? Show me one fucking article asking Trump lovers to understand Trump haters" -The Rude Pundit

Link to tweet

[Blue_Tires]

26. CO-SIGNED

[mountain grammy]

28. Willful ignorance.

I can no longer tolerate it either.

[RKP5637]

44. Exactly!!! n/t

[HughBeaumont]

29. I don't try and reason with people who have abandoned it.

"President Donald Trump is a great idea." Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's all I needed to hear. SORRY, you are the weakest link, nubbins. These people need not give me any other reason for their vote since it was a vote of faith and belief, not of reason.

Every time I see a "Trump Pence" sticker, they get a Nazi salute. Fuck these people. If they don't want to take the election or this country or it's future seriously, then Trump voters shouldn't expect me to take them seriously.

[libtodeath]

30. Every traitor that voted for the orange madman can fuck themselfs.

[anniebelle]

34. I'm with you are this one.

I have had it with so many of my relatives that are so blinded by hate and ignorance, I don't even try any more. The only problem with this, is we are all in the same boat that they are trying to sink. I have never had such fear in my 72 years as I have had since this maniac was turned loose on the entire world. He has to be stopped by someone, but I don't think there is any repuke with the balls to do it because they might lose that money flowing into their pockets by us, the taxpayers. I live in a RED state and it is so disheartening to listen to these mouth breathers and their so-called 'explanation' of how ignorant DEMORATS are.

[RKP5637]

47. He reminds me of some of the dictators in other countries in our youth! And it is damn

frightening.

[cmf]

35. Agreed

These people are lost. I don't care about speaking to them or bringing them into the fold. The people who we need to concentrate on are the 1/3rd of the eligible voters who didn't vote in the last election.

[sarcasmo]

37. F- the Trump voter, it's the voters who didn't vote.

[IntraPolitico]

39. It's a difficult issue

I agree with you OP. And at the same time I disagree.

You should only lend your understanding to those who are willing to understand you too.

[muntrv]

41. You can't reach these voters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028679858

[Orrex]

46. I agree with you and have been saying the same for a long time

Last edited Tue Feb 21, 2017, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

The sentiment abounds in left-leaning publications and among left-leaning pundits, and it is rampant among Rightwing propagandists, all of whom act like the Trump voter is some mysterious creature whose motivations are opaque to casual observation.

Fuck all of that. Trump voters are not difficult to understand, and it's idiotic to suggest otherwise. They bought into a con, and in the aftermath of the vote they've split into three factions:

1. Faithful zealot who will never abandon their support of Trump.
2. Allegedly regretful Trump voters who claim not to like what he's doing, but they'll absolutely vote Republican next time around.
3. A tiny handful of truly remorseful voters who honestly realize that they made a terrible mistake.

We should definitely support and encourage that third type, but the first two can go fuck themselves, and there is no need to "understand" or "reach out to" them, because that effort will be wasted.

When Republicans are defeated in elections, do Conservative pundits call for a great "understanding" of Democratic voters? Fuck no! They redouble their efforts to defeat those pinko un-American gay-loving Liberals.

That mindset is the enemy, and we won't defeat it by reaching across the aisle to embrace it. We must recognize that they absolutely can and will do whatever they need to secure power, as they have done for decades. To pretend that it's simply a failure to understand the Trump voter is to fail to understand the way reality actually works.

[narnian60]

71. Well said.

[RKP5637]

48. Support for Trump and voting republican is like being hooked on a bad drug! n/t

[certainot]

49. just bring up limbaugh, associate them with limbaugh

blame limbaugh, name him as their leader, ask them to name anything major he's been correct about

[Progressive dog]

50. It's impossible to understand the alternate universe

that many Trump voters live in.

[Coventina]

51. Agree, there is nothing to "understand". They voted for a racist endorsed by the KKK.

They voted for a man who has ZERO respect for women.

They voted for a man who was OBVIOUSLY unqualified.

I have no fucks to give for them.

[Brogrizzly]

52. This link is to help on your journey of understanding the Trumpanzees.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a53275/trump-melbourne-florida-rally/

Lol, just a bit of sardonical humor not towards you of course, but in line with your attitude. I totally get where you are coming from.

[AllaN01Bear]

53. and the snow flake reference too. and this attack on california

[TNLib]

55. In my circles

I find they are either complete fuck ups or senile and old. So I still try to have compassion. I have no hope that they will change their minds. Trump has turned the uneducated and mentally feeble into Trump zombies.

I'm not sure what the solution is short term. Long term I think the solution is access to higher education and possibly medications to help the elderly with cognitive abilities.

[mcar]

56. K&R

No sympathy, no empathy.

[treestar]

57. Amen. In fact the one I know have all they need

and yet still look smugly down on immigrants, the poor, the disadvantaged and blame them for their alleged not existing problems.

[SujiwanKenobee]

59. Many reasons

Probably many reasons why people voted for Trump and it is likely just the emotionally polarized die-hards who show up for the rallies. Other people may have just voted straight ticket Republican because it's what they do. And others because of the payoff they figured they would get by having the branches of government all in Republican hands--somewhere $$$ and imposing particular values come in.
The "values voters" think the US is going to hell in a handbasket. There is no reasoning action to take with hardline positions, but you can try to achieve understanding. I realize this sounds trite, but understanding why people do what they do without seeing them through the fog of our own anger or sense of superiority (whereever we think we possess it) is a really difficult task. All of us have to take responsibility for where we are right now, even if we think we are blameless--we as a country in this place and time are a sick organism at war with itself and being a part of it, we cannot extricate ourselves.

[KittyWampus]

60. If you want to market your message to the fraction of them that are turnable...

you have to at least disengage emotionally and be analytical.

But I'm sure almost all DU'ers feel the same frustrations and prefer to vent.

Makes total sense.

But outside the DU bubble, the Democratic party HAS to start doing a better job of messaging, narrative building and party building.

[On the Road]

61. It Sounds as If the People You're Describing

have been voting Republican all along. The people who decided the election were former Obama voters who switched parties to vote for Trump. That is the segment that needs to be addressed unless the Democratic party is writing off the rust belt.

[Ray Bruns]

62. One does not negotiate with fascists.

They must be opposed at every step of the way. Because, at the end of the day, that is what we are talking about. Authoritarian fascists. They would gladly put the Declaration of Independence and the constitution in a shredder and make Trump king if they thought they could get away with it. As long as "those people" were put in there place.

[florida08]

65. couldn't agree more

It seems they want to tear down everything that was built including the gov't which holds our SS and Medicare. Most of them don't know that the ACA and Obamacare are the same thing. They're mad because they stupidly listen to Fake News and Limbaugh.
They are told daily that money was taken from them to give to a lazy ethnic person. (Any brown American will do) Must have been true because we had a brown POTUS. Ignorance is going to destroy this county.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

67. Amen

I'm VERY sick of it too! Like, why the hell do we need to *understand* them anyway? Do we owe them sympathy or something because they voted for Trump and now (maybe) regret it? They're adults whom had the same access to all of the same information as the rest of us in the country whom didn't vote for Trump. Democrats didn't throw them or push them into the arms of a madman. They wanted to believe the s**t that Trump was peddling and were able and willing to dismiss all of the signs that Trump was seriously morally and ethically flawed and dangerously unqualified to be President. If they now feel bad about themselves for voting for Trump or can't understand why the majority of the people whom voted for Clinton are upset with them for their vote for an such a person, then maybe they could spend a little time doing a little introspection and/or try to understand OUR concerns and/or join us in our opposition to his policies, nominees, etc. because a whole lot of them are going to suffer equally for their vote for Trumpublicans in the last election.

[lunasun]

88. Introspection ? Sorry but please , most are like trump - it's always someone else or an outside

influences that are to blame with them
This is asking more than trying to persuade them ourselves

I agree they were over 18 and had access much the same information as us to make a decision
They just had to listen to the debates and fact check , Who.watched or listened to just those debates and thought yes I'm voting for trump? Let alone many places you could find what the candidates stood for including thier own campaign sites and literature, media interviews etc.

[still_one]

68. well said

[ananda]

69. It's funny..

.. but my friend is a Trump voter who voted for him
because she likes him and doesn't like Hillary.

She's not a hater, and oddly enough she's not racist.

I attribute her wrongheadedness to sheer ignorance
and fear around money.

My best inroad to changing her thinking is climate change
actually.

Every time she brings up a possible move to Florida to start
an orchard business, I remind her that Florida will be under
water sooner rather than later because now nothing is being
done about climate change.

She actually hears me on this because I don't bring up 45's
name.

So maybe she'll move towards a mind change at some point.

[Dustlawyer]

70. The only way I see to sway them back is to

Take over Congress and the WH with representatives willing to bust up the media oligarchy and require the truth in news and a separation of the news department from the advertising departments.

Take away the propaganda!!!

[lunasun]

73. I think a lot of them haven't really tried to accept education as a means to a better life IMO

Meanwhile a lot of POC /immigrants didn't have uncle Joes place in the town's union factory waiting for them or owned any workable land and went after training or higher education as their only in to a better workplace as it became available to them and were willing to go to work in diverse cities , which they think of as elite centers. Now that the jobs are gone those left behind who didn't accept the future are stubborn and only want the old jobs rightfully thiers after uncle joe retires and not the future which for some reason they never saw coming and want revenge on those who they perceive were "given" a better life although those folks may have had to do a military stint or take out big loans on top of completing training or college while working at night and weekends to get to today's middle class workforce .
Often the first generation in thier family to reach middle class which means they are often also needed by older generations for support and are not waiting on an inheritance so they need to stay ahead
Some trumpers admire people in thier tribe that make it but not any others and it is not enough for the wealthy trumpers to succeed ,they seem to need to see others fail to feel good about themselves . Many lack empathy for anyone including thier own tribal members
If we nuked other countries for hyped up falsities they would be chanting USA without question and checking the stock market while buying another flag and pushing for lower taxes not vet care
Look at republicans and the Iraq war.

Those voters also know yes they are racists but believe all big companies prefer hiring POC and lgbts . Yeah right
For some older ones everything went wrong when any women were allowed in traditional male positions
Also at this point I think being super religious will maybe make them make more bad choices like trump because they are letting thier religious clerics make the choices for them which may not be in thier own best interest but consider it Gods word and trump is Gods will they are told and go with it because they have been chosen by God
Scientists and other intellectual elites have lost thier way .Man to them is superior over the earth and if it gets bad enough , God will pull them up to heaven as they look down on smarty pants sinners left in the rubble. All they have to do is pray and let Jesus take the wheel

White Liberals are traitors and / or don't listen to Rush and Fox so they are weak dumbasses who have not learned the truth yet.
The older ones used to say liberals were like commies and maybe they should move to Russia. Now Russia is admired by the same lot and if only this country was authoritarian with a strong leader like Putin they would feel a lot safer
They seem to think they have a lot to be bitter and pissed off at but refuse to evolve or adapt IMO they will resist moving forward
So good luck to them trying to hold back the future and knowledge and wanting all the pieces of the fresh pie . It may be possible for a while but the tide will turn if history holds
Have hope and teach your children well (or others will) instead of wasting energy on people who do not want hear it and most likely consider you inferior or unenlightened is my thought also
Signed , An uppity elite

[Mc Mike]

74. They want everyone they don't like, all those

different people who they regard as 'other', as their 'enemies', to suffer. They want those people punished.

That's ALL they care about.

[nolabels]

75. Probably because you don't understand them

When you attempting to take a big rock and make it a bunch of little rocks you find the weakest point then work on fracturing it at that seam. You also must also understand when the person you are conversing with is an ideologue or just someone who is misinformed.

Then another point to consider this idea that if they don't know you or distrust your judgment in some way you are probably wasting your time trying to change their outlook in the first place. Heck, it's hard enough to try and change ourselves let alone attempting this on someone else.

On edit: There is a difference between understanding and trying to make something into something it's not

[WinkyDink]

81. Did you read the post at all? "I have lived with and am related to many of these people..."

[nolabels]

115. Yes I read the OP and my point was about the understanding

I have known many people that are set in their ways. You have to deal with them one way or the other. Understanding is not capitulation. The adage is "to hold your friends close and your enemies even closer' is play on words meaning if you know the next move then most of the conflict is much easier to go through. Hate all you want but just don't be surprised when they do something

[Squinch]

76. Did you see the NYT op ed today? It's saying the same thing, and I think you are both right.

These idiots are not where we will find our gains. If we gain "understanding" of them and try to bring them to us, we will necessarily be working against our base and our values.

And putting all that aside, there just aren't all that many of them.

We need to work on the ones who didn't vote, and we need to work on ending gerrymandering, and we need to work against voter suppression.

We don't need to sell our souls to idiots.

[lunasun]

90. Exactly

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

105. Well put. I especially liked your last sentence:

We don't need to sell our souls to idiots.

Don't need to and absolutely should not. In my opinion, the Dems have not done nearly enough over the past eight years to counteract the RW lies. Do I know how to do that? Well, I have some ideas, but as I have been saying for years, the Democratic leadership and supporting organizations need to put the resources into hiring people smart enough to figure out how and then implementing that plan.

If all the people who voted against Hillary because they believed lies instead knew facts, they would more than likely have voted against Trump.

[Squinch]

112. I totally agree. Our platform is awesome. Our messaging sucks.

[llmart]

109. Spot on!

There are more of us and Hillary won by more than 3 million votes. Maybe, just maybe, this will be what it takes to get people off their asses and to the polls to vote. I have a brother who is 63 and has always thought of himself as politically aware - a union man, a liberal, and not once in his entire life has he bothered to vote! His favorite line is "it doesn't make a bit of difference in my life on a daily basis who's in office". How do you argue with that level of ignorance? He always sides with the Democrats but won't vote.

Let's not waste our time and energies on the stupids. I'm sorry. I only know about four people who will acknowledge that they voted for the imbecile and you just can't argue facts with them. It's all emotion.

[stopbush]

84. I'd say that you DO understand them. Perfectly.

[bdamomma]

85. when they

loose everything and see how they've been screwed they hopefully may realize but I am not betting on it.

They will just BLAME someone else for their situation.

The rich will be getting richer and we will get poorer.

[leftstreet]

86. DURec

Nicely stated

[ismnotwasm]

87. K&R

[Initech]

89. The travel ban was a step way too far.

It's illegal, immoral, and unconstitutional. And I'm tired of being told by these fuckwits that we must take the constitution literally. Fuck them, they clearly do not, and don't even begin to understand it.

[Stonepounder]

91. Getting back to the original point that Grits was making...

They want to get 'back' what is 'theirs'. Can you say: "BINGO!"

Watch TV. Inner cities are full of drug dealers on every corner and the cops are righteous and valorous. Sticom families live in perfectly manicured suburban homes with perfectly manicured front lawns. No one in a hospital drama worries about how they are going to pay for their stay and/or their operation. Even the commercials are full of happy families and all parents give the kids a new car for graduating from High School. High School for f**k sake!

And here are these folks who see that as 'normal' and want to know why they aren't living that life. And no one bothered to explain to that that the US is based on a consumer economy. Giving tax breaks to corporations is NOT going to create jobs. If GM can sell 100,000 cars a year and you give them a big tax break, they are still going to sell 100,000 cars a year. They aren't going to build more factories to build more cars. Why should they? But, if you give the workers a tax break, they are going to have more money in their pocket and they might buy more cars. Supply doesn't generate demand, demand generates supply. (For you economists out there, yes I am oversimplifying.)

This is what we mean when we talk about low information voters. And the GOP keeps pitching the idea that the 'job creators' need more capital to produce jobs. And the Dems don't do any sort of job at explaining that is hogwash and the reverse is true.

I remember an episode of West Wing where they were having some sort of gathering in honor of an economist who had just won some prize. Throughout the show they were telling the economist to 'keep things simple' and he kept saying 'I can't. Economics is not simple.' And they kept reminding him to 'Don't make it too complex'. Finally, closing line was Bartlett walking beside the economist as they made their entrance into the reception saying, "Be as complex as you want." (I may have some of the details wrong, but that was the gist.)

And you can't do that with many of these folk.

[Hamlette]

94. it's a religion and you'll never convert them head on. The best you can do is be a good example

I was raised an atheist and in my youth, especially my college years, I argued God with anyone who wanted to engage. No one changed my mind and I didn't change anyone's mind.

Since then I know the only way to change their minds is to be an example of what a "good" atheist is. I never talk about my religious views when I know those around me don't agree but I do talk about my values in a way I know they will agree. When they find out I'm an atheist, and the inevitably do, I want them to think "I thought atheists were evil people but she is not so maybe not all atheists are evil."

I live in a deep red state. I treat politics like religion. I won't talk about it with people who have a religious zeal about it (not all who voted for Trump are zealots) and my good example may escape them. But If just one says "she's a liberal and not a bad person" it will be worth it.

[spanone]

96. i will never condone hatred, bigotry, misogyny or any of their other 'traits'

i salute them in this manner:

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[butdiduvote]

97. Agreed. I'm over being told to be patient and understanding of people who make no such effort

...in the other direction.

There are different ways in which they are stupid, but in the end, they are all stupid. Some have a specific blindspot when it comes to politics and are otherwise reasonable people, but that makes them even more stupid because their stupidity is selective and willful rather than just being a pure lack of intellectual capability.

I have a friend, for instance. Very smart. Makes all A's in her college classes. Is working towards her 2nd degree. Perfectly capable of using reason in all other areas of her life. She went on a rant about how she couldn't get health insurance because Obama let her fall through the ACA cracks. I tried, calmly, to explain to her that, no, this wasn't Obama's fault. Obama wanted you to have coverage. This was the fault of your state's Republican governor who declined to expand Medicaid. Her response to me was, "Yeah, exactly! Despite all of Obama's rhetoric, Obamacare doesn't help everybody! This is why I vote conservative!" Again, I explained, if she didn't live in a state with a Republican governor who didn't care about her, she would have Medicaid coverage, and voting in more Republicans would only make the situation worse. She stopped responding. Ultimately, she just didn't want to give up her "conservatives good, liberals bad" worldview she had had her entire life. You can try reaching out to people like this until you're blue in the face, and it won't make a difference. They don't want to be reached out to. They just want to be left alone in peace to vote against their interests because it is what they've always done. It's intellectually disingenuous and, yes, stupid.

[BaronChocula]

98. Same thing that drove the Tea

Party. Each electoral generation will have another name for the hyperparanoid, hypersensitive, Euro-Mericans who loved gov't until it started benefitting POC more equally.

[pansypoo53219]

100. let's face it. it all came to them LOSING their WHITE PRIVILEGES. BRAINWASHED by

hate radio + fux gnewz etc. BRAINWASHED.

[okieinpain]

101. +1, thank you.

[guillaumeb]

102. My response:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028687863

[DownriverDem]

104. Our side includes all!

It's way past time that trumpsters try and understand our side. We are for diversity, healthcare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (used by seniors who have spent down their funds), the environment, women's rights etc.

They are for hate and I don't see them changing at all.

[orangecrush]

113. Same here

Go piss up a rope, or on your hero, Trumpsters.

He'll thank you for it.

[Richard D]

116. You need to understand Trump voters . . .

. . . especially the aspect of just how stupid they are.

But you know that already.

[Martin Eden]

117. Are Trump voters our POLITICAL ENEMIES?

Do we need to DEFEAT them?

Knowing your enemy -- aka UNDERSTANDING them -- is a major key to victory.

[MineralMan]

118. Yes! Exactly.

[zentrum]

119. SS and Medicare

...are not entitlements. We pay for them. When will Dems stop calling them "entitlements"?

Bank bailouts, tax breaks for big real estate, a non-progressive tax system---those are gifts for The Entitled.

[rpannier]

120. This guy might disagree with you

The Audacity of Talking About Race With the Ku Klux Klan

When musician Daryl Davis first met a member of the Ku Klux Klan he was the only black man in a country band. They were playing a gig at an all-white venue in Frederick, Maryland. After their set, a member of the audience approached Davis to compliment his piano skills, saying he'd never heard a black pianist play like Jerry Lee Lewis. "Who do you think taught Jerry Lee Lewis to play that way?" Davis replied. They hit it off. The patron wanted to buy Davis a drink, and soon after he observed that he'd never in his life had a drink or conversed with a black man.

snip

As he sees it, conversations of a particular sort can be hugely useful in the fight against racism. Indeed, he has defended conversations that many people would condemn, starting with the time that he called up that member of the Ku Klux Klan, informed him of an upcoming gig at the Silver Dollar Lounge, and befriended him as he attended subsequent gigs, sometimes with other Klan members. His friends, black and white alike, thought that he was crazy. These people belonged to a despicable, stomach-churning, evil organization. They deserved contempt.

snip

For our purposes, it is enough to know that at the end of the interview, the two men shook hands and the Klan leader said, "Stay in touch," extending his business card. "I was thinking, what? I didn't come here to make friends with the Klan!" Davis said. "I came here to find out, how can you hate me when you don't know me?" Nevertheless, he started inviting the Klan leader to gigs and then
to his house.

link:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/the-audacity-of-talking-about-race-with-the-klu-klux-klan/388733/

Meet the Black Blues Musician Who Befriended the KKK

For decades, blues musician Daryl Davis has been raising eyebrows with his unconventional hobby: befriending and converting bigoted members of the Ku Klux Klan, whose white hoods he symbolically collects along the way.

“I try to bring out the humanity in people,” he told The Daily Beast following the SXSW premiere of Accidental Courtesy, a documentary about Davis and his unorthodox methods that sparked provocative Q&As at the festival. Sitting down to chat in Austin, Texas, flanked by director Matthew Ornstein and ex-KKK member Scott Shepherd, Davis smiled warmly. “We all are human beings at the end of the day.”

The film chronicles D.C. fixture Davis’s remarkable knack for winning over racists with friendship, and includes several scenes in which the Chicago-born bluesman boldly initiates sit-down conversations about race with some of America’s preeminent racists

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/18/meet-the-black-blues-musician-who-befriended-the-kkk.html

Davis' Logic


The most important thing I learned is that when you are actively learning about someone else you are passively teaching them about yourself. So if you have an adversary with an opposing point of view, give that person a platform. Allow them to air that point of view, regardless of how extreme it may be. And believe me, I've heard things so extreme at these rallies they'll cut you to the bone.

Give them a platform.

You challenge them. But you don't challenge them rudely or violently. You do it politely and intelligently. And when you do things that way chances are they will reciprocate and give you a platform. So he and I would sit down and listen to one another over a period of time. And the cement that held his ideas together began to get cracks in it. And then it began to crumble. And then it fell apart.

He has gotten members of the Klan to quit the group

[joet67]

124. Remember that old, tired meme with Madea holding a gun?

The one with "one more time" at the bottom? Sadly, that's exactly how I feel about it. Touch my earned benefits just one more time...but I'm not handy with memes or I'd make one and post on FB. Funny, I just though of this earlier today and logged on to find this post.

I agree with your sentiments. I have really poured it on them throughout this campaign on FB, blocked quite a few, argued with untold numbers, alienated friends and family alike. Don't care. Every word I uttered turned out to be true so far, and there has been no shortage of material to work with.

I finally wore them all down, and the ones who are left just let me be me. Thank God. Though I did notice yesterday one of my extended family members made a swipe I just know was intended at me, but on their own page. I just ignored it, for the sake of peace, but took note. Sadly, the Trumpkins are in a bad place, so they have nowhere to go now but start lashing out. I truly hope to serve them up the treasonous shit sandwich they so richly deserve.

Beyond that, these asshole Republicans who have wrought every bit of misery on real, living Americans to satisfy the business community are finding out a few things. Paul Ryan is Reagan 2.0 or actually worse. I'm not giving another dime or inch. I'm speaking out. To my friends, to my community, to my neighbors. To my elected officials. I call them. I write them. I answer their surveys (just did one the other day).

It is truly different this time.

[teslar]

125. trumpizem

the people as you say that think trump is great all wish for there god to strike down the the other guys...they don't need no education that would only crowed their small brains. it's never them and there hate it's always that mex or etc took my job. not that they ever did a good job and don't want to do real work. repug's all all about me boss you peon, because for are a wet back/spick/slav/irish/etc. all about small ego/small everything. they think that 1950 tv is where we need to go.

[the_sly_pig]

126. I got in a FB argument with a couple of trumplodytes...

The first posted that he hated Michelle Obama because of all the 'programs' she supported. I listed the programs, which mostly had to do with improvements to education and wondering why anyone would be anti-nutrition in regard to school lunch programs.

I countered stating that his hatred was due to his bigotry. He countered that Barack Obama was a racist and that Michelle was just like Oprah and he hated her too. I pointed out the commonality that Michelle and Oprah shared. He also complained that black people voted for Obama because of his skin color. His argument, ultimately, was that black people voted.

The second poster was also a trumplodyte whose only contribution was name calling and attempted intimidation.

Regardless, there are some issues of which I am disappointed in Barack Obama and I can explain why. No one can make everyone happy, right?

The two rubes posted pictures of bigoted memes in an attempt to get under my skin, which to their irritation, failed.

I could have spent hours pointing out their hypocrisy but it would have been wasted time. The fact of the matter is these Drumpf supporters are incapable of deep cognition. Since reasoning with them is impossible, our time is better spent dealing with and planning for the harsh eventualities that may arise.

I read on the Census Bureau's website that the population will be 56% people of color by 2060. Here's to hoping our country survives to see the day.