For Those Opposed to the ACA, How Can Single Payer Get Through This Senate?

[Yavin4]

Please tell me how single payer can pass a senate wherein two sitting Democratic senators won't even attend this year's convention. How?

Elect 60 Progressive senators? Good luck trying to get progressives senators elected in Alabama, Miss., Texas, KY, etc.

Reform filibuster rules? Good luck on that one as well.

Protests? Marches? Demonstrations? Yeah, because OWS was soooo successful.

[elleng]

1. It can't.

Obviously.

(Not opposed; just commenting fwiw.)

[kestrel91316]

2. It doesn't need to get through THIS Senate. And the Senate, like the House,

changes a bit (and sometimes drastically) every two years. Rome wasn't built in a day, and Single Payer won't happen overnight. This ACA is flawed, and when those flaws prove problematic, pressure for and acceptance of Single Payer will increase among Americans. Eventually we WILL win.

Our job now is to ferret out the flaws in ACA, particularly after so many parts go into effect in 2014, and keep up the pressure to ensure affordable access to health CARE and not health INSURANCE for all Americans.

[LonePirate]

3. Attach it as an amendment to the yearly Defense Authorization bill.

Start playing hardball with those traitors on the right.

[Taverner]

4. Or attach it as an ammendment to some "life begins at erection" bill

[treestar]

5. From my many hours on DU, it is simple:

1. President uses the bully pulpit
2. President threatens Congressman and Senators, hovering over them and pointing his finger in their faces, a la LBJ (who got everything he wanted because he was tough)
3. Use Reconciliation (there are no limits on that)
4. Use Nuclear option (oh how spineless it is not to do that)
5. Grow a spine and a pair

Very simple, you see, all proof Obama never wanted single payer or a public option! See how 1-5 could have clearly meant that even Tea Party Senators and Congressman would vote for single payer, due to fear of the Big Man!!

We don't need a Republic; we need a strong armed President! A courageous one with a spine! Who can turn elected Congressmen into jelly by his or her toughness!

for the challenged

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Rally popular support the way Reagan did

At the time the whole health care process started, Obama still had millions of worshipful volunteers who would have done anything he asked. He could have sent them out to lobby for single payer.

But I'm convinced that he never wanted it in the first place, seeing that he not only gave it up without a fight but didn't even include it as a bargaining chip in his original proposal.

[treestar]

21. Aha, the bully pulpit

All by itself!

[Yavin4]

23. "Obama still had millions of worshipful volunteers"

Wow. So that's what it takes to get legislation passed in the Senate, "worshipful volunteers".

That logic right there is why Liberals lose in America, a complete lack of understanding how things actually work and believing things like "worshipful volunteers" is all that's needed to pass complex litigation.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. The same volunteers who got him elected

could have been turned loose to lobby for single payer, legislation in the form of the Conyers bill, which was much simpler than the ACA. They could have gone to their local media (I've been involved in projects where that works) and talked it up. They could have gone to Congresscritters' offices, presented petitions, attended Congresscritters' hometown "town halls" (the way the Tea Party did). Those who had traveled or lived abroad could have written letters to the editor, picketed right-wing news stations, recruited health care professionals to support them.

Most of all, Obama could have included single payer in his original proposal ("always ask for more than you can get&quot and bargained down to a public option. By giving up even the public option without a fight, he made himself look weak, and that is like blood in the water to a bully (which is what the Republicans are).

Remember how Reagan used to do things? He'd go on TV, talk like kindly Uncle Ronnie, and then urge listeners to call or send telegrams to their Congresscritters if they agreed with him.

[Yavin4]

28. Wow. You Are Extremely Naive

You literally have NO fundamental understanding of how the process works. None.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. You mean I'm not taking into account the corporate bribes?

The "moderate" Democrats voting with the Republicans?

Why did it work for Reagan?

Maybe it requires a wimpy or secretly collaborating pseudo-opposition, such as Reagan had with the DLC?

[Yavin4]

30. Reagan Offered Candy

Tax cuts with no corresponding spending cuts. That's literally candy to the pols. Reagan left balancing the budget to Bush I and Clinton. In 1993, Clinton pushed through legislation that raised taxes, and the Dems were crushed in 1994. See Gingrich revolution.

Reagan wasn't tough. He was a panderer. He spent like a sailor and made his successors pick up the bill, much like Bush II.

Geting Single Payer through would require higher taxes and the creation of a new agency to administer the program. That's much, much harder to get through this congress.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Not if it was paired with REAL cuts to the Department of War and to corporate welfare

something everyone is afraid to do.

[msongs]

6. first one has to make the effort, again and again, until success nt

[Yavin4]

13. What If That "Success" Takes Decades?

Are you willing to allow your fellow Americans to suffer in order to achieve a goal that realistically cannot be reach given the current make up of the congress?

[leftstreet]

7. What did Congress look like when SS and Medicare were passed?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

8. A LOT of Democrats + Democratic POTUS

I believe that with FDR, he had a vast supermajority in Congress at the time. LBJ had a considerable majority in Congress as well and was overwhelmingly elected in 1964. I'm not sure that either party has had as big of a majority in Congress since then.

[leftstreet]

9. Once they lost their majority why didn't the GOP get rid of it?

their 'supermajority' I mean

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. Too popular/accepted by the time that happened

The same will (probably) happen with the dreaded "Obamacare" (if it hasn't happened already). Short of Mitt Romney getting elected with a Republican majority in the House and a supermajority in the Senate (which is logistically impossible even if they run the tables in November), it can't/won't happen. The Republicans would not be able to find enough Dems (even Blue Dogs) to overcome a filibuster in the Senate to repeal ACA. Politically, it would be impossible since, as well all know, the GOP has no "replace" for their repeal. It's not going to happen, particularly not now.

[leftstreet]

15. ...as Single Payer would be today n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. If it could have gotten passed

Too bad FDR or LBJ couldn't have gotten it way back when. Universal Health Care coverage seems to be very elusive in this country for reasons that I can't even begin to comprehend.

[Yavin4]

11. Also, The GOP of the 1950s Weren't Stark Raving Mad

like they are today. Back then, some of them were more Progressive than their Dem counterparts.

[leftstreet]

14. Yes, Senator Joe McCarthy was of sound mind

[joshcryer]

19. It's very very hard to get rid of new legislation once it's made.

Hell, we're out of Iraq yet AUMF 2002 (Iraq, not terrorists) is still in effect even with moves to retract it by the Democrats! It's mind boggling. Any sitting President from now until 20 years from now probably can attack Iraq at any time, that's how ridiculous it is.

[treestar]

22. And a Depression

that affected everyone to the extent that the government had carte blanche to do something about it. Some would wish that on all of us in order to have such a climate.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

12. It can't and more importantly insurance companies are now too big to fail n/t

[sabrina 1]

17. OWS apologizes to you for not being able to overturn four decades of a multi-billion dollar

plot by the Far Right to take over our government and the media, in just a few months. However that seems to have been someone else's goal because no thinking member of OWS or anyone else for that matter, ever thought that they could overthrow an entire system now so powerful it practically rules the world.

But OWS would like to remind you that they did in fact accomplish most of THEIR goals. In fact they accomplished far more, and still are, of THEIR goals, than they had expected to do.

To accomplish YOUR goals, and mine, and anyone with half a brain cell working, will take years and years. And it will take people joining those who started the job for them. Sitting at home complaining about the only people courageous enough to get the ball rolling, certainly won't make it happen. Join them and maybe things can speed up a little.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. Well . . . . people could sit around and do nothing.

[shcrane71]

24. Single payer is enacted by States, not the Senate.

Obamacare allows states to opt-out of providing insurance pools. States that opt-out can still receive federal funds if they choose their own way of providing health care that insure as many or more citizens than the insurance pools.

Vermont will have a single payer system by 2017 (five years). The MAIN reason that Vermont has chosen to go this route is that it's sure it will attract businesses and jobs to the state. Think about it. Health insurance premiums are a major drag on US business profits. Hell, the major auto-makers all blamed health care costs of their workers for their bankruptcies, and they've all come out in favor of single payer systems.

Canada's single payer system started with Skaskatchewan. Once all the other Canadians saw how good they had it in Moosejaw, they demanded single payer in their own provinces.

[EFerrari]

25. For those of you opposed to British rule

how can these scraggly guys get around the British Empire?

Links?

TIA!

[villager]

26. Single payer will start in the states. And move on from there.

As for OWS, we don't need to be dismissive about the bravery and risk-taking of the movement. It's just a start.

Like sit-ins, etc., in the early Civil Rights movement. Sure, there's a more toxic media environment now, but we can't let that drive us to sneering at allies who are willing to take risks that we aren't.