If Bernie really cares about working families, and not just self-promotion,

[pnwmom]

Last edited Sun Feb 26, 2017, 10:54 PM - Edit history (5)

then he will share his donor list with the DNC, which needs all progressives to join together to strengthen the party in all 50 states. The donor list he agreed -- by written contract -- to share with the DNC.

No if's, ands, or buts.

THE CONTRACT:

The contract is Appendix A to this document. See page 3 of that Appendix, (e).

http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/26/politics/sanders-dnc-election/

Sanders also implied in response to Tapper's questioning that he would not give the DNC his presidential campaign's massive email list, which shattered previous records by raising $218 million online from 2.8 million donors.

The list will be used "to transform the Democratic Party into a party that stands for working families," he said, implying that he wants his new group, Our Revolution, to decide which candidates will get access to that list and reap its benefits.

[redstatebluegirl]

2. I hate to say it but yep...

[Peacetrain]

4. Well.. since he is not a Democrat.. I guess the answer is no.. and I can understand that..

I just wish he would either s**t or get off the pot.

[kentuck]

5. If he "gets off the pot"...

he'll probably take half of the toilet paper with him.

[pat_k]

24. Enough with the "not a Democrat" crap.

Which Democratic members of the House and Senate have shared their donor lists with the DNC?

I'd like to know so I never give them another dollar and get my name taken off their current list.

I give to specific people. I have never given to the DNC, DSCC, or the DCCC. I would be furious if I started getting mailings and email and calls from them because one of the many candidates I have given money to shared their list.

Absolutely furious.

More on labeling and the "Not a Democrat" crap.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028715034

[elleng]

28. Thanks.

[Cha]

40. Just stating a fact.. while he takes pot shots at the Democratic

party.

He's not helping.. Tom Perez and Keith Ellison and all of us will be moving Forward.. he can keep his list.

[NurseJackie]

170. I assume he thinks he's "sending a message" or "making a point" ...

... the exact message or point that he's trying to convey remains unclear to me. But what is clear to me is that it's a snub.

In my opinion, and based on my life's experiences, behavior like that is usually done by someone who has an axe-to-grind. It emphasizes division and separateness. It suggests resentfulness and distrust. There's really nothing at all about that type of posturing that would be interpreted as being conciliatory.

Personally speaking, I know that if I had an estranged in-law who treated me with such disrespect and then that in-law started to criticize and offer unsolicited advice on my homemaking skills, I'd certainly question her sincerity or motives. That's just human nature, I guess.

Isn't it odd how some individuals insist on doing things and embracing attitudes that are clearly not in their own best interests or in the interests of things that are, overall, supposedly important to them?

In-laws are funny that way, I guess. My own mother-in-law made it exceedingly difficult not to resent her meddling and intrusive nature, and as a result I've done my best to avoid making the same mistakes she made. So, on the plus side: I took a lesson from her mistakes and was able to be a better person because of it.

With regard to the current political climate and distrust of motives and propriety ... maybe someone in the future will also be able to take a lesson and avoid making the same mistakes and missteps. As it stands now, that's likely the only possibility of finding any positive outcome.

Stronger Together
(Supposedly)

-----
Hello alerter! These are my opinions and my amateur analysis. The analogies are just my way of trying to make sense of things and to put these trying times into everyday terms that are easier to understand and relate to.

[CTyankee]

189. Well, he has a reason, after all. He wants to change our old ways. He's a reformer and that is

what reformer's do. Change won't come in our political system until we accept that it is necessary.

[NurseJackie]

190. That's the goal? Really? Well, that would be the wrong way to go about things (in my opinion).

Unless someone actually WANTS resistance and resentment and to be marginalized and ignored. I can't believe anyone actually likes being treated like a meddling outsider. But, if so... if that's what someone wants, then they're doing it exactly right (in my opinion.)

Stronger Together! Democrats First!

[CTyankee]

193. I don't think he was meddling. Obviously, he was allowed to run.

The way I see it you can't just put up a fight against it. I voted for Bernie in our CT primary. My husband was a strong HRC supporter. I still slept with the guy...

Obviously, something went off the wall last November. Weren't you shocked when she didn't win? Now look at what we've got!

For gawd's sake, let's all get together on this and fight the REAL enemy: the Republicans. They have control of every branch of government and we are so screwed.

We need everyone in the fight!

[NurseJackie]

195. I can work together. Many others can, too. But ...

... I think that people will find it difficult to "work together" and "bow down" and "acquiesce" simultaneously. That is just a bridge too far. I won't do it, yet, many demand nothing less. (And regarding the word "allowed" it was more of a concession that lacked enthusiasm. I "allow" myself to be subjected to a mammogram, that doesn't mean I'm enthusiastic about it ... but it's necessary to avoid other worse things.)

[lapucelle]

206. "We need everyone in the fight!"

That's a pretty good argument for Sanders to share the list.

[Cha]

211. Exactly.. he needs to work together.

[lapucelle]

212. I'm a relative newbie here at DU, and I've been dying to say something to you:

Mahalo Cha!

[Cha]

214. Mahalo to you, lapucelle! I've

seen you around.. Thank you for your work!

[Cha]

210. Tell that to BS.. he needs to work together against the repubs.

[Cha]

209. Hillary had a brilliant progressive Democratic Platform..

We have new inclusive leaders now, who were elected because they are trusted to know what they're doing.

Tom Perez and Keith Ellison are moving our Party Forward

This is the kind of leader who we'll be going forward with.. so much respect..

Link to tweet

We don't need anyone going on the damn tv all the time with his overkill insulting buzzwords

[CTyankee]

213. OK, past is past. We've been through this. Let's move on as one party and work together

toward a unified front to defeated repubs in the primaries and the general...let's go!

[Cha]

215. So Agree, CTyankee!

[msanthrope]

51. All of them. nt

[pat_k]

126. No. "Donor data" is not normally shared.

"voter data collected" is not the same as "donor data" or "volunteer data"

Candidates and entities generally keep their donor data to themselves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[ciaobaby]

73. +1

[Barack_America]

87. +2

[riderinthestorm]

95. + another 1 nt

[George II]

169. If you would be furious if you started getting emails from organizations that you didn't donate to..

...imagine how furious I was when in December 2015 I started getting unsolicited emails from the Sanders campaign and Democracy for America without me ever giving either or anyone other than the DNC my email address.

You can guess the timing when those emails began, if I said here I'd most likely be alerted.

[Gothmog]

172. I also got emails from these organizations

[leftstreet]

6. FFS, the DNC isn't entitled to it

The first question they might want to ask themselves...how come our email list isn't as impressive as his?

Meh, sounds like he knows the value of it and will share it with specific candidates

[DURHAM D]

10. In that case,

he was not entitled to VAN. They should of withheld access until he promised his list. In fact, I recall reading that that was the agreement. They must not have it in writing or BS is just breaking the contract.

[Gothmog]

200. Agreed

[pnwmom]

11. Not true. To get the DNC's list he AGREED to share his list with the DNC

so that they could use it to support candidates in the future. That's the deal everyone makes.

[pat_k]

70. "voter contact data" is NOT "donor data" or "volunteer data"

All campaigns collect voter data from various sources counties, states, other entities (like DNC). They use various models to analyze the source data to identify potential donors and solicit contributions.

I don't know for a fact, but it would be my guess that Bernie 2016 already shared source voter data collected.

An agreement to share source voter data collected is NOT the same as an agreement to share donor information. (Donor information is generally a subset of the larger source pool, but also includes people who donated without solicitation, plus email, and other information the donor provided. It is not customary to share donor data.)

The data licensing agreement referenced as "Bernie's agreement" is found in Exhibit A of the Complaint Bernie 2016 filed against the DNC (and later withdrew).

It clearly talks about "voter data collected." The agreement does not specify "donor data" explicitly. I does explicitly name "volunteer data" and "models" used. In absence of any specification of "donor data," this does not appear to be an agreement to share "donor data."

The fact that "donor v. volunteer v. voter data" are separate things is clear from the agreement with the Iowa State Party (Exbibit A-2 of above referenced complaint.)

For the avoidance of doubt, Licensor does not obtain any license or right to Licensee's donor
database or mass email list, other than volunteer email addresses recorded in VAN, under
this Agreement.

.

[Adrahil]

179. The he needs to acknowledge that he doesn't give a shit about the party...

.. and stay out of it.

In or out, Bernie. I have no respect for people who try to play it both ways.

[NCTraveler]

7. He is cashing in on his way out.

Somewhat standard for career politicians.

[alarimer]

166. Proof?

Otherwise, I call bullshit.

[NCTraveler]

173. Didn't think proof was necessary. And I dont really mind if you call bullshit.

Most of his stops since his last loss have been for his book tour. He has spent most of the rest of his time yelling at walls which is really tailored to his spending base. These things are well known. It's what career politicians do on their way out.

Have you really missed all of his book tour dates. Donkees has kept somewhat good track of them in the Sanders forum. Though some are incorrectly labeled as campaign events. That goes hand in hand with the career politician aspect.

Have fun calling bullshit on reality. Seems that is your main concern. Sanders own group here at DU will open your eyes to his cash grab. I don't see it as a negative. It's simply the status quo for career politicians.

[ornotna]

8. The torture never stops

And so it goes.

[world wide wally]

150. One of my favorite Zappa tunes

And so appropriate

[riderinthestorm]

9. It won't help. Those donors aren't going to necessarily donate to the DNC

And the DNC's usual way of requesting money would only harden opposition.

That list is only beneficial for certain issues and candidates now and just amorphously requesting $$ for the DNC isn't it imo.

[pnwmom]

13. He signed a contract. He needs to honor it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028715241

[riderinthestorm]

39. Your link has no proof. This is just more Bernie hate nt

[pnwmom]

46. Here:

The contract is Appendix A to this document. See page 3 of that Appendix, (e).

http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001

[riderinthestorm]

83. The licensed term ended

Legally he doesn’t owe them.

Factually the list isn't workable in the DNC'S hands

[pnwmom]

84. The contract allows the "perpetual' use of the data after the licensed term is over.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715458

[riderinthestorm]

90. Parsing. And I reiterate, it's useless to the DNC

Bernie's supporter's list would recoil from the usual ham handed DNC fundraising appeals. It would only alienate more of that wing.

[JTFrog]

112. Lol, just call anything that refutes your claim "parsing". That'll do the trick.

[pat_k]

129. For future claims like this...

... in the "industry" there is a distinction between "voter data collected," "donor data," and "volunteer data."

The agreement (assuming it was actually executed -- the version in the complaint was not signed by DNC) does not appear to cover "donor data."

More in my response to pnwmom above:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[riderinthestorm]

139. Thank you for this nt

[George II]

187. How is that "parsing"? The contract is the contract as pointed out.

Would you like to see a list of "ham handed Sanders fundraising appeals"* that I received even though I never contacted them or gave them my my email address?

I began receiving email requests for money from both DFA (Democracy for America) and the Sanders campaign on Friday, December 18 2015, asking for donations. I continued to get them just about every day until June 2016. Some days I received four or five of them.

*your terminology, not mine.

[pat_k]

131. Answered above -- not an agreement for "donor data"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[otohara]

176. I Thought Socialism Was All About Sharing

Reuters had an article about Sanders and it started out saying something about changing "his party" Whuuuttt?

He says "we" when talking about the party he hates but wants to take over via coup.
Speaking of coups is that a Socialistic tactic too?

I'm confused.

[msanthrope]

53. Oh....there you are. JPR down? nt

[riderinthestorm]

77. Aww, I merit stalking? FWIW, I'm still the Bernie Sanders group host

As long as Skinner's ok with us cross dressers, I'm here.

[msanthrope]

102. Oh...there you are. With the transphobic remark. Nice reveal. nt

[riderinthestorm]

111. An almost interesting reply. Sorry, not playing

Discussion boards are silly. You're wasted here you know.

FWIW, I'd wear a cross dresser label with pride. Hate skirts, love pants. I endorse wearing clothes that make one feel comfortable.

[seaglass]

163. Actually no. You admitted you wrote in Bernie for President. Skinner has made it clear

this website is for people who voted for Hillary or supported her if ineligible to vote.

Why don't you ask him in ATA whether it is fine for you to host and post here when you didn't and don't support Hillary? I bet he doesn't know.

[bravenak]

81. Maybe the dressage got boring so they must oreach to us 'little people' who can't afford such

Extravagant entertainments.

[msanthrope]

106. My daughter, who is autistic, cares for discarded and abused dressage

horses. Ponies who pulled tourist carriages.....Horses abandoned by people......


They love people....even after all we have done to fuck them up.

[riderinthestorm]

124. I have 4 "lifers" right now at my farm, discarded horses who I will care for

til their end.

That's along with the rotating group of OTTBs I actively seek annually for rehab, re-training, and re-homing. I've even posted some of those stories here on DU.

I'm thrilled to meet others who are committed to this work. After 30 years in the biz, I stand in solidarity with all of those who also work towards alleviating animal suffering.

Kudos to you and your daughter.

[msanthrope]

161. Participating in the industry that creates these castaways negates any "charity" shown to them.

Your hands don't wash clean.

[bravenak]

141. Your daughter is awesome

My daughter is autustic too, she loves animals alot.

[msanthrope]

162. Thank you....she's a great kid and I love her very much. nt

[JCanete]

192. you troll a lot. Oh, and since you love the salutation yourself, enjoy your stay! nt

[msanthrope]

194. Been here since the start. I am enjoying it. nt

[Talk Is Cheap]

12. Any word if Clinton released here email list?

Just wondering...

[Hekate]

14. To the DNC? It goes without saying. She got their support (including list) from them...

Reciprocity within the Party for the good of the promotion of Democratic values by electing Democratic candidates.

Something Bernie knows nothing about. Why do you think so many of us dislike his attitude toward the Party he had no part in building? ----> This, btw, is not "bashing Bernie." It's an observation on behavior.

[Talk Is Cheap]

17. Got proof?

It does not go without saying...

[Hekate]

125. Do you? As you say, talk is cheap.

[Talk Is Cheap]

127. Proof of what?

[Hekate]

128. Proof of your claims, which amount to smears against the DNC and Clinton

Got any?

[Talk Is Cheap]

130. What smears against the DNC&Clinton are you referring to?

What posts of mind are to referring to?

[pnwmom]

15. Of course she did. All the Democrats did -- it's a condition of sharing

the DNC's contact list.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028715241

[Talk Is Cheap]

19. I went to the DU link and then to the Politco link...

No, there is no such language in that lawsuit language that the link provides...

Got any other link that is valid?

[pnwmom]

20. You didn't read the Appendix, page 3, item e. The language is very clear. n/t

[Talk Is Cheap]

21. There are no 'Appendices' - only Exhibits.

Maybe you linked to the incorrect file....

Or, why don't you copy the Appendix for us to read...

[pnwmom]

22. Look again. It's Appendix A and I just found it there again. I don't know why

you're not finding it.

It can't be copied and pasted. I tried that first.

[Talk Is Cheap]

23. Provide the actual link that you went too...that would help.

[pnwmom]

25. You said you already went there. Here it is again:

http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001

[Talk Is Cheap]

35. I went there, and there are no appendices...

The doc from the link is the lawsuit text dates 12/18/15.

There are 11 pages of the lawsuit text.

Then, Exhibit A - a blank page. Then the Agreement between the DNC and the campaign - 5 pages.
Then another Exhibit A blank page.
Then Exhibit A-1 - blank page.
Then Exhibit A-2 - blank page, then language on the voter file - 6 pages
then schedule B and more lawsuit stuff.

Wonder where the problem is????


And after thinking about it - if Sanders has a contractual obligation to provide 'his email list' then
where is the DNC lawsuit demanding the email list.

Sound like some bull going on...

[bravenak]

43. Yeah, it sure does sound like some bull is going on

But not on her side for sure:[IMG][/IMG]

[Talk Is Cheap]

48. It specifically EXCLUDES email addresses...

Case closed.

Ends up being a bunch of bull....

[pnwmom]

52. What about the rest of his donor information? Keith Ellison felt the need to speak up:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

[Talk Is Cheap]

60. So, you admit your post is bogus about the email addresses...

Sorry, your credibility was just lowered in my book...

An apology would be nice...

[pnwmom]

63. Where was my post bogus? I said "email list" and changed it to "donor list" as soon as I realized --

which was before you pretended there was no appendix in the document.

When are you going to apologize for saying there was no Appendix? Which you would have kept saying if Bravenak hadn't been able to post it.

[bravenak]

76. I also s did not see all those blank pages that he was describing. Maybe I missed it but...

I saw title pages listing the exhibit names but no blank pages. All pages had text on them. Just saying.

[pnwmom]

86. Me, neither. I have no idea what the poster was talking about. n/t

[bravenak]

89. Could be from the other site that always lies about us

Jpr loves sending in troops to bother us. I could be just wrong and they will apologize to you for their mistakes.

[Cha]

217. Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Link to tweet

Thank you, pnwmom!

[bravenak]

56. Give us their addresses and phone numbers then

[Talk Is Cheap]

65. First, thanks for (not) admitting your error...

Now please notice that this information was available to the DNC only for the "license period" which ended
12/31/2016.

An apology for both of your misunderstandings would be appreciated.

[bravenak]

69. He never gave them up which is the agreement. We did our part.

Basically you are saying he is not trustworthy enough to keep his end. No need to ever let him run or make decisions until he keeps his end of the agreement.

[Talk Is Cheap]

72. I see you are not familiar with contracts...

Contractually, the DNC had the right to *use* most info collect thru the contract term.

I am sure if the DNC asked for the info during the contract term - he would have given the info to them...

[bravenak]

75. Oh!!! I see I am glad that we won't ever have this issue again.

No more non democrats on our tickets

[pnwmom]

93. Not true. The contract said that upon the end of the licensed term,

the DNC had the right to the perpetual use of the data.

[Talk Is Cheap]

98. It absolutely does - the data collected thru 12/31/2016 and excludes email addresses

Any questions?

[pnwmom]

88. Try reading the paragraph again. It gives the DNC the "perpetual use"

of the data.

When are you going to apologize, since you think it's so important?

[Talk Is Cheap]

92. Reading comprehension...

perpetual use "... of data collected during the license term excluding email addresses'.

[pnwmom]

94. So? My post -- and Keith Ellison's statement -- referred to the "donor list." n/t

[Talk Is Cheap]

100. Nothing to do with the DNC contract and campaigns...

[pnwmom]

50. Thank you Bravenak. I couldn't figure out how to do that. n/t

[bravenak]

58. Just a screenshot. People being decietful is annoying and harmful at this point

Glad to help in any way I can

[Talk Is Cheap]

79. Deceitful? You said Appendix A and there was no Appendix A.

Contracts are very precise (conceptually) so the only deceit was not telling me the proper place to look.

[bravenak]

80. I said nothing about appendices.

Please be honest

[Talk Is Cheap]

82. pnwmom, who I originally responded to, DID.

How about honesty applying to a few more people here...

[pnwmom]

91. The page Bravenak posted was part of the Appendix. nt

[Talk Is Cheap]

97. There are no 'Appendices' - only Exhibits.

That is the source of confusion. You gave me information that was incorrect. I posted
exactly what I saw in the doc. That should have triggered you to know that something was
wrong with your post.

[pnwmom]

96. There is a 16 page Appendix, and the clause is on page 3.

I don't know how you keep missing it.

Case 1:15-cv-02211 Document 1-1 Filed 12/18/15 Page 1 of 16
Exhibit A

[Talk Is Cheap]

101. Thanks for proving my statement...

EXHIBIT A is not APPENDIX A

[pnwmom]

103. Funny that Bravenak was smart enough to know that the Exhibit was an appendix

to the document, but not you.

Oh well.

[Talk Is Cheap]

110. Funny that the word appendix did not appear in the doc...

...but I am supposed to read your mind.

Lawsuits, contracts, etc. are very precise (exceptionally). If you
refer to something in the doc that is not there - then I ask questions. Like
is this the correct doc?

The smart and thoughtful person makes sure about what they are writing...

[pnwmom]

117. The original document referred to an appendix which turned out to be the Exhibit.

How hard would it have been for you to look at page 3, (e) of Exhibit A -- like Bravenak quickly did -- and realize that was the Appendix A I was talking about?

[Talk Is Cheap]

118. Asked and answered...

[Talk Is Cheap]

114. And, most importantly, you were incorrect about the emails...

Care to apologize for this (no harm no foul if you do)?

[pnwmom]

115. I fixed that as soon as I noticed -- which was before anyone mentioned it.

I haven't noticed you apologizing to anyone.

[Talk Is Cheap]

116. For what?

Please let me know what I did requiring an apology

[pnwmom]

119. Nothing. And me, neither. n/t

[Talk Is Cheap]

121. Wait. You misrepresented the truth on several points. That requires an apology.

[pnwmom]

122. You "misrepresented the truth"

when you said this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715528

Despite what you said, the DNC's right to use the data didn't end with the end of the licensed term.

"Upon termination of the Licensed Term, the Campaign grants to the DNC a perpetual, irrevocable
license to use all Campaign Data including voter contact data, volunteer data, acquired demographic and specialty data, updated phone number and address information and modeling scores, but excluding any email addresses."

[Talk Is Cheap]

123. I said. "the DNC had the right to *use* most info collect thru the contract term."

You are digging a very deep hole here.

pnwmom, I am not the or your enemy. I simply believe in the truth and the facts.

So, please, can we just stop right here.

[pat_k]

132. No. Donor data is not normally shared

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[Nevernose]

16. Everyone knows I'm a Bernie fanatic

But that list is worth MILLIONS, possibly hundreds of millions. Just giving it away? That's a real test of character -- and probably one I, personally, would fail (as I wave bye to North America from the deck of my yacht ).

Personally, I hope he loans the list out, but only to candidates he believes in. It would help Democrats AND be true to his values.

[pnwmom]

18. He signed a contract with the DNC to use THEIR database, which he acknowledged

was critical to his own campaign efforts, in exchange for sharing his data with the DNC.

Their data was also worth millions. Now he needs to honor his word.

[Nevernose]

33. Like I said:

This will be a test of character.

[pat_k]

133. Agreement is not for "donor data"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[pnwmom]

152. self-delete

[ananda]

26. If the DNC really cares about people and not corporations..

.. they will prove it and Sanders will be a great ally!

[samnsara]

27. this party cant afford to be divided...

..and certain ppl know what they need to do.

[Barack_America]

85. Bernie's list is largely independents who the Dem party has no claim to.

Whether Bernie hands over his list or doesn't, those votes will have to be earned.

In fact, those voters getting emails from the DNC right now might be a very bad thing.

[pat_k]

134. The agreement being referred to does not appear to cover "donor data"

Just an FYI, if this comes up in the future.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[pangaia]

142. Amazing how many times you have to say the same thing.

I wouldn'the have the patience.

[pat_k]

143. I tend to get a little "testy" when...

... a poster fails to acknowledge a post refuting a claim they made, and then keeps on posting the refuted claim.

I don't normally "follow someone around" like this. I usually don't have the patience either. This case seemed to call for it tho.

[Sienna86]

29. Good for him.

Having his list will not make those that supported middle-class values support other candidates who do not understand nor support those values.

[pnwmom]

32. It is completely hypocritical for those who claim they want the Dems to not take

corporate donations to then withhold a donor list of non-corporate donations. And in Bernie's case, he will be violating his written contract with the DNC, that he signed when the DNC gave him access to its own massive database.

[Cha]

38. yeah.. keep your list sanders.. all to yourself.. we'll move forward without it.

[Thinkingabout]

30. I hope Sanders will try to do every thing possible to get progressive ideas enacted.

He can be one of the leaders to unite for the cause.

[choie]

31. That's right, it's only

Hillary Clinton who cares about working families...

[Cha]

37. She sure as hell does.

[choie]

42. and so does Bernie N/T

[Cha]

45. yeah, and he's not the only

[Chasstev365]

34. You've been doing this months: Give it a rest!

[Cha]

36. Tell that to BS

[jalan48]

41. Why would Bernie share a list with Democratic candidates who take big donations

from Wall Street corporations and banks? Do you think the millions of Americans who sent him $27 each would want that? It's absurd and would be totally counter productive. I'm sure he will be willing to share with those candidates who share his and his supporters progressive values.

[pnwmom]

44. Because he agreed BY CONTRACT to share it in exchange for his use of the DNC database.

And because the best way to lessen the DNC's dependence on corporate donors is to share a list that doesn't include them.

The contract is Appendix A to this document. See page 3 of that Appendix, (e).

http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001

[jalan48]

47. I'm sure if a leader within the Party feels as strongly as you do they will make an issue of it.

[pnwmom]

55. Do you consider Keith Ellison to be a party leader?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

[jalan48]

59. There ya go. Let's see what happens.

[pnwmom]

61. Ellison said that a month ago. Not much has happened. nt

[jalan48]

62. He and Ellison are friends-is there a time line?

[pnwmom]

66. Yeah. ASAP. nt

[jalan48]

71. I'm sure Bernie will be getting right on it then.

[boston bean]

99. Why would democrats be against the dnc having their name and phone number?

[jalan48]

104. Maybe they are not all "official" Democrats. Perhaps they are independents.

[boston bean]

105. But these persons want a say in the dnc, no??

[jalan48]

107. Who knows, all we know is that they gave Bernie $27 because they believed in him.

[boston bean]

109. When he ran as a democrat. I am curious if these persons are saying they aren't dems??

[jalan48]

113. How will we ever know. They liked Bernie is all we know.

My guess is that they would be more likely to support Democrats than Republicans given Bernie's progressive, socialist message.

[Demsrule86]

181. I can't imagine why he would after all the list would be used to try to stop Trump...

Not a priority for him I guess.

[jalan48]

183. I think Bernie's interest is well known. Taking on the rich and powerful who have rigged the system

in their favor. He's not going to play his trump (no pun intended) card and get nothing in return. Why would he want to give the names of millions of people to candidates that take thousands of dollars from big pharma or other wall Street corporations and banks? It would be a total insult to the people who gave him their small donations. Besides, it would be sure to backfire on the Democratic Party-talk about bad optics with the outrage it might produce. We can be smarter about this than just demanding.

[Demsrule86]

198. Right...because getting rid of Trump wouldn't be a win for Bernie?

Seriously I hope that is not true...because it makes me sick to think Bernie would not do all he could to save the innocents from Trump.

[jalan48]

202. Oh don't be sick. I'm sure Bernie will do the right thing.

He's always been there for the little guy, I'm sure he will continue to be. Besides, Trump will be gone before 2020.

[Demsrule86]

222. I hope he does the right thing.

[marlakay]

49. Ask yourself if what the DNC did to him

They honestly did to you if you would do that? They were suppose to be for all democrats and from the beginning picked Hillary.

I stopped donating to them when they took Howard out, it will take a lot to win my respect and many others back.

I like Tom and Eddison but not enough to trust the whole DNC with my email. I personally am on that list so why don't they ask us, the people on it.

[nikibatts]

67. What exactly did they do to him. Not just the talk about him. What did they do to him?

[LisaM]

78. My question too.

In fact, considering that he admitted he was just using the DNC, it seems to me that they bent over backwards to help him.

[Demsrule86]

199. They did nothing to him...he lost all by himself...tired of that meme.

[karynnj]

54. It might be better for him to keep the list

This is what Kerry did. The reason was that many would not want their info shared. Bernie, like Kerry, could use the list to help the party and specific candidates.

[pnwmom]

57. Do you have a link for your statement about Kerry?

The standard contract calls for the candidates to share their donor list in exchange for using the DNC's database.

[karynnj]

64. 2004 predates that contract

I do not have a link, but it was a very big issue in 2008 because some claimed he gave it to Obama. He instead Sent an endorsement of Obama with a link to Obama's sign up page. I know this because I got Kerry email.

I am not on a computer at the moment so searching DU to find something from 2008 is something I can't do.

[pnwmom]

68. Well, Sanders did sign the contract, so he should honor it

regardless of what Kerry may or may not have done in the absence of that contract.

[pat_k]

140. Agreement with DNC referenced does not appear to cover "donor data" anyway.

The claim the Bernie 2016 campaign agreed to share donor data is spurious because the contract does not appear to cover donor data at all.

It is my understanding that campaigns don't normally share donor data. They do what Kerry did -- send mail to donors soliciting on behalf of another entity/candidate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[Sienna86]

74. Read the contract. The licensed term ended.

Contract was fulfilled.

[JTFrog]

108. "Upon termination of the Licensed Term, the Campaign grants to the DNC a perpetual, irrevocable

license to use all Campaign Data including voter contact data, volunteer data, acquired demographic and specialty data, updated phone number and address information and modeling scores, but excluding any email addresses."

[pnwmom]

120. Thank you, JTFrog. n/t

[pat_k]

135. You are still ignoring the answer from 10:07

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[pnwmom]

145. And you're ignoring what Keith Ellison said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

[pat_k]

146. No, I'm not ignoring Ellison's comment.

I took note of it several weeks ago.

Ellison's expressed intention to ask Sanders for his list has absolutely NOTHING to do with your false assertion (in post after post) that Sanders is in breach of an agreement with the DNC.

I fully expect Ellison to follow through with his expressed intention to ask. I imagine he already has.

At the time I thought it was extremely unlikely that Sanders would agree to hand over the Bernie 2016 donor/email list. I still think it is very doubtful.

I do think Sanders is very likely to leverage his list to call on those who supported him to get involved in efforts to respond to the emergency situation we are in. As a member of the list, I know he has already made use of it for a number of worthwhile calls to action.

So, when will you be withdrawing your erroneous claim that Sanders is in violation with an agreement to share donor data?

[pnwmom]

149. You haven't proved I was wrong. Thanks for sharing your theory.

From your post:

I don't know for a fact, but it would be my guess that Bernie 2016 already shared source voter data collected.

And the contract does say:

"Upon termination of the Licensed Term, the Campaign grants to the DNC a perpetual, irrevocable
license to use all Campaign Data including voter contact data, volunteer data, acquired demographic and specialty data, updated phone number and address information and modeling scores, but excluding any email addresses."

[pat_k]

153. What you quote is irrelevant.

You quote my speculation that he probably has complied with what the agreement called for.

Here's what the agreement calls on him to share:

-- voter contact data (which is not donor data)

-- updated phone number and address information (which is not donor data)

-- any models created using volunteer data (which is not donor data)

-- volunteer data (which is not donor data)

-- acquired demographic and specialty data (which is not donor data)

-- modeling scores (which is not donor data)

Whether or not he shared the above -- and I am guessing he did -- is irrelevant to your erroneous claim that Sanders is violating the agreement by not handing over donor data. The agreement does not call for him to share donor data. Your assertion is wrong. You should withdraw the assertion that he signed an agreement to share donor data. He didn't sign such an agreement.

[pat_k]

155. "Voter contact data" IS NOT donor data. "Volunteer data" IS NOT donor data.

In response to the second quote (apparently added on edit), "Voter contact data" is the data compiled from state and county registration and voting records. It is public data, but the formats are so variable that campaigns pay companies for versions of the information compiled into more usable database form.

NO RELATION to donor data.

Volunteer data IS NOT donor data. Sure, some people may both volunteer and donate, but they are separate databases.

On edit: Data brokers that deal in "voter contact data" make the data more valuable by combining it with other public information they can connect to the voters -- information that can be very helpful when creating analytical models for targeting those most likely to donate.

[pat_k]

138. None of which is "donor data"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[pat_k]

137. Actually, it does not appear that it ever was for "donor data"

I don't know if it was fulfilled or not, but "donor data" is not "voter data" and is not "volunteer data."

The agreement being referenced appears to be for voter data, volunteer data, and models the Bernie 2016 campaign used to analyze the voter data to identify potential donors.

I don't know if they passed along the voter data they collected from states, counties, and what have you, or their volunteer information, or their analytical models, but as far as I can tell, there never was an agreement to share donor data.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8715522

[jalan48]

144. Thank you for your patience. You are much too rational for this discussion.

[GP6971]

136. Dutch Apple

with a hint of cinnamon on the crust.

[DURHAM D]

147. Perhaps the reason he does not want to share is

because of the pages and pages of inquiry from the FEC for unexplained donations. I assume this has not been resolved and apparently the FEC is basically no longer functioning.

Why would he want the Democratic party to see his donor data? He wouldn't.

As far as I know Bernie has not been pushing for an investigation into Russian meddling in our election.

[OnDoutside]

154. Are you suggesting he has been receiving Russian money ?

[pat_k]

158. I can't find anything about any outstanding FEC requests.

The "pages and pages" of "problem" entries from month-end reports boiled down to about a half-dozen, easily resolvable, issues.

Are you aware of anything from FEC to Sanders 2016 pending?

[pnwmom]

207. He got two extensions and then when he withdrew didn't file a final report.

And apparently there is no law requiring him to do so. So he was able to skirt FEC regulations by getting extensions that lasted for several months.

Doesn't seem very transparent.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/bernie-sanders-not-file-2016-finances-article-1.2756267

[pat_k]

208. Thanks for the link. Bookmarked.

[Cha]

148. Right and get rid of trump and his gang of cutthroats...

we'll see.

[Ken Burch]

151. I'm going to surprise you by agreeing with you that he should because it would be conciliatory

Is it really necessary to demand it, though?

[pat_k]

159. He can send...

... a summary of Perez goals for DNC (most productive ones) and ask recipients to show their support for these goals by contributing to the DNC (and providing a link).

No need to "hand over" the list.

Something coming to a Sanders supporter from the Sanders campaign is far more likely to be effective than something coming to a Sanders supporter from the DNC.

[Ken Burch]

160. That's also an option.

He could also agree to forward all DNC fundraising requests to his list, which would accomplish the same thing as handing the list over.

[pat_k]

180. Yes.

But I think coming from him, and emphasizing efforts jugded as boldest -- and perhaps the ways "people power" can influence DNC focus -- would be a more effective means of engaging.

Many Sanders supporters feel alienated from the party; that feel their "go big" frame is not heard. Perhaps if the DNC did a better job of "going big," solicitations direct from the would be more effective.

It could of course have a "backfire" effect and prompt people to unsubscribe, and lessen power.

Don't know. All I know is that there's a risk of further alienating those who are dedicated to pushing the party to bolder action if he just hands over donor list.

[Demsrule86]

182. Aything anyone can do to heal Democratic divisions is a good idea.

Honestly, I am determined to put this election behind me and move on. I hope others can do the same.

[OnDoutside]

156. If Bernie had given his word, then that's poor form however

This can be sorted without too many hissy fits.

1) Contact all the donors, and ask them would they allow their details be passed to the DNC.

2) The people who deny access can then continue to be emailed for support by Bernie, for specific requests on behalf of the DNC, but Bernie would hold their details.

[BlueCaliDem]

157. This twee pretty much says it all:

Link to tweet

[alarimer]

164. Yawn. More Bernie bashing for no purpose.

Give a rest all ready. You hate Bernie Sanders. We get it. He must be so very threatening to the Democratic Party status quo.

One thing, though, if you want Democrats to keep losing, keep following the same, stale playbook.

[Motown_Johnny]

165. Oh please... what a stupid post.

Bernie has spent his entire life fighting the good fight. Your purity test is insane.

The truth is that the Democratic party has too many corporate interests asserting influence. Bernie is more liberal than the Democratic establishment and I support anything he can do to help move our party to the left. That includes withholding the list which I am on.

Maybe if Hillary supporters cared about working families as much as Bernie's does then her donor list would be as important to the party as Bernie's is.

[mfcorey1]

167. This infighting is what will destroy the party. Screw the list. Just develop a new one.

It is time wasted begging for something you are not going to get. MOVE ON!

[George II]

168. I suspect much of that donor list is already on the DNC server.

[KPN]

177. Yup.

What's the big deal here?

The only ones who aren't are not registered as Democrats -- and some of those would probably object to their email address being handed over to the DNC. Build the list from the bottom up -- from local D Party organizations -- there's growing membership at that level in response to Nov 8th/45. I'm seeing it here where I am. Just build up from there for crying out loud.

[Gothmog]

171. K&R

[KPN]

178. What's the point of this OP other than to bash Bernie.

Good grief! Can't we just move on folks?

The DNC would be better served to build its list out from the ground up. Update based on updates of local D Party email lists. They are growing as we speak. I know my local organization is seeing a lot more involvement and membership since Nov. 8th/45's so-called election.

[QC]

186. There is none.

Some people simply can't let go of the primaries.

[NurseJackie]

188. I think there's a lot more to it than that.

[QC]

191. Of course. n/t

[QC]

201. Let us be grateful for small mercies. n/t

[Cha]

218. Tell that to BS.. Keith is asking him for his donor list..

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee.

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Keith and Tom Perez are all about unity..

Link to tweet

sanders is out there lobbing pot shots at our Democratic party.

[Gothmog]

184. I agree with the analysis in the OP

If we are really one party, then we all need to join in

[StubbornThings]

185. Good for Bernie. nt

[Cha]

219. No.. Good on Keith Ellison..

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) said for the first time that he will ask Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to share the donor list built during his 2016 presidential campaign, answering a question that had begun to unsettle the race to run the Democratic National Committee .

“We’re gonna call on everybody to give all the resources they have,” Ellison said during a Huffington Post-hosted debate at George Washington University. “We’re in an emergency situation.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/18/at-dnc-debate-ellison-says-hell-ask-sanders-to-share-his-donor-list/?utm_term=.54de0db74c21

Link to tweet

[dembotoz]

197. really really sick of the bernie bashing

if jill stein was not such a total wacko the greens would be a place for me to consider

i have been a lifelong dem....rather active in my state and local party and i am just getting fed up....

to make the dem tent smaller is just not a good idea

please stop it

[The Sand Reckoner]

203. Sanders needs to either support the Democratic Party wholeheartedly

or put his money where his mouth is and start his own party that looks exactly the way he wants it to. He is not a Democrat. He doesn't get to say "I need a party, so I'm going to tell the Democratic Party how they need to change to accommodate me". If he and his supporters aren't willing to put in the hard work that entails, then they need to STFU.

[regnaD kciN]

204. Let's call for "party unity"...by four years of non-stop Sanders-bashing!

[lapucelle]

205. At this point, the list is the only leverage

that Sanders has left. He failed to turn out his faction sufficiently on election day, and that probably weakened any claim he could have made about his influence with getting that bloc of voters to the polls for the Democrats.

My guess is that Sanders is holding on to the list so he doesn't have to ask for and accept DSCC funding for his senate race. He might also be waiting to see whether or not Giordano makes good on his threat to run against him in 2018.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/sanders-democratic-fundraisers/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/06/meet-al-giordano-the-man-who-wants-to-take-bernie-down.html

[Cha]

216. Keith Tweet.. all about Unity. BS needs to take a cue..

Link to tweet

[ornotna]

220. It's just a theory mind you.

[killbotfactory]

221. I've gotten enough spammy, clickbaiting DNC fundraising emails to know...

That Bernie handing over his donor list would be a yuge mistake.

If the DNC wants to keep chasing big donors and lobbyist money. That's fine. Good luck to them. Leave me the fuck out of it.