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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAll-time record high temperature recorded at South Pole
http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu/blog/2011/12/29/update-on-record-high-temperatures-at-south-pole-and-aws-sites/Here is an update on the South Pole and nearby Nico and Henry Automatic Weather Stations (AWS) record high temperatures recorded on 25 December 2011:
The prior record high temperature at South Pole was recorded on 27 December 1978, not on 12 December 1978, as misquoted in some sources.
Preliminary assessment of the record high at Nico AWS was -8.2C or 17.2F on 25 December 2011. This breaks the previous known record of -13.9C or 7F recorded on 4 January 2010.
Preliminary assessment of the record high at Henry AWS was -8.9C or 16F on 25 December 2011. This break the previous known record of -14.5C or 5.9F on 5 January 2010.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)derby378
(30,262 posts)Floridians, instead of living by the ocean, how would you feel about living on the ocean?
This is just plain scary...
Is there any snow left on Kilimanjaro, BTW?
rurallib
(64,688 posts)midwest is pretty much snow free.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)There were glaciers at the top. I suspect they are still there.
derby378
(30,262 posts)Thanks! And I'll bet it was one hell of an experience.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)But I resolved to never do a climb like that again. Above 18000 feet I was dying for lack of oxygen. But I was climbing with a friend and I wouldn't quit if it killed me as long as he was going up. But we both made it to the top.
FirstLight
(15,771 posts)I wonder if the oceans rising will be a gradual thing, or if we will just one day wake to our ports under water???
...and here in tahoe, after a hellacious winter last year that snowed till june... nothing, not even a good rain...no snow at all and it's forecast to be 60 the day after New Years...
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Breaking a high recorded 33 years ago is NOT that big a deal, furthermore it is still below the freezing point of water. Temperatures can go up another 8 degrees Celsius and have NO effect on how much ice is in Antarctica AND given that it is a 33 year record not much of an indications of how temperatures are going one way or another.
On the other hand, temperatures on the coast over the Freezing point of water do indicate problems. On the Antarctic peninsula it reached 43 degrees Fahrenheit at Base Baia Terra Nova, Antarctica
Read more - http://w.po.st/share/entry/redir?publisherKey=underground&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wunderground.com%2Fglobal%2Fstations%2F89662.html&title=Weather%20Forecast%20Base%20Baia%20Terra%20Nova%2C%20Antarctica%20%7C%20Base%20Baia%20Terra%20Nova%20Weather%20%7C%20Wunderground&sharer=copypaste
http://www.wunderground.com/global/AA.html
In fact Antarctic temperatures near the South pole has NOT follow Climate Warming Models:
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/anttemps.htm
But the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is unstable at its present tempertures:
http://news.discovery.com/earth/how-stable-is-the-west-antarctic-ice-sheet.html
http://earthsky.org/earth/sophie-nowicki-on-weak-underbelly-of-west-antarctic-ice-sheet
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/06/27/254996/melting-antarctic-ice/
http://www.imaja.com/as/environment/can/journal/madhousecentury.html
Antarctic Ice animation:
http://nsidc.org/sotc/sea_ice_animation_ant.html
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)But think about the surrounding area. If temperatures rise, the edges of the polar cap will melt and the ice cap itself will become smaller. When I was in grade school (~1980) a teacher said that if just an inch of ice melted, it would flood a lot of land around the world. I didn't understand then but what he meant was that if the overall (average) radius of the polar ice cap decreased by an inch, that would cause the oceans to rise enough to put parts of continents under water. Yeah, the actual north pole might not melt, but it would be a shorter walk to the ocean from it.
I also heard somewhere that the south polar cap is actually growing, but I haven't looked it up to confirm. Yes, google is just a click away, I know. It would be interesting to see if that's true, and whether the ice growth there is more per volume than the ice loss up north.
xocet
(4,442 posts)Are you sure that it is only a 33-year record? Doesn't the temperature data set go back to IGY?
Temperatures at the coast - McMurdo (Ross Island) for example - are high enough for running water in the summer. The sea ice melts etc. Are you sure that coastal temperatures over freezing definitely indicate problems?
The OSU report from 2007 is interesting, but the report seems to be misrepresented when the statement "In fact Antarctic temperatures near the South pole has (sic) not follow...." is made. Specifically, Antarctica is a large continent, and the report to which you linked does not specifically state that the temperatures being discussed are from near 90 degrees South: to wit, the South Pole is a specific place and is not a synonym for the entire continent.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)For example the West Antarctic Ice Sheet covers the area of Antarctica around the Antarctic Peninsula. That area has had temperatures ABOVE FREEZING. Thus the ice is MELTING and then refreezing at night. This is dangerous for two reasons, First is obvious, ice turn to water flows into the sea raising world sea levels, the Second is hidden and more dangerous. The ice melts and the water then seeps into cracks in the ice, re-freezes, and when water freezes it EXPANDS, thus putting pressure on the ice, which leads to cracks in the ice making the whole Ice Sheet Less Stable.
The point I was trying to make, and I admit I did it poorly, was to point out temperatures below freezing for the South Pole is of much less concern then the above freezing temperateness elsewhere on Antarctica.
The Antarctic Peninsula is in fact an island NOT a Peninsula, if you ignore the ice sheets that surround the Peninsula. Here is a map of Antarctica WITHOUT its ice, it clearly shows that the West Antarctic Ice Sheets are ice Sheets grounded BELOW Sea level:
![]()
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_Antarctica
This is why the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is referred to the Godzilla of Global Warming, it is in direct contact with the Ocean, which can bring warmer water to act directly in the ice Sheets. This warming water can undermine these Ice Sheets and cause them to become Ice Shelves (The difference between Ice Sheets and Ice Shelves is Ice Sheets are grounded on LAND and thus displace only the water BELOW sea level, Ice Shelves, FLOAT on water and thus displace the same water as in the ice of the Ice Shelves.
In simple terms Ice Shelves can melt 100% away and have NO AFFECT on world wide ocean levels. On the other hand, Ice SHEETS (West Antarctic ice Sheet, East Antarctic Ice Sheet, Greenland Ice Sheet and the glaciers of the World) if they melt WILL RAISE GLOBAL OCEAN LEVELS (Greenland and the West Antarctic Ice Sheet about 4 Meters or about 20 feet each, the East Antarctic Ice sheet over 65 Meters).
The East Antarctic Ice Sheet is stable at the present time. It has very minimal contact with the Ocean (Anarchistic is the HIGHEST overall Continent on the planet. Asia and South American have taller mountains, but also lower low lands, i.e. The Amazon Basin and Siberia are MUCH LOWER then the Low lands of Antarctica, thus Antarctic wins the contest for overall height). This height makes the East Antarctic Ice Sheet Stable.
On the other hand the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is UNSTABLE for it is grounded BELOW SEA LEVEL, as you can tell by the above map of Antarctica which shows West Antarctica is nothing by a series if islands surrounded by water (if the Ice Sheets.did NOT exist). The Greenland Ice Sheet is also grounded ABOVE SEA LEVEL, thus is more stable then the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (Through the Greenland Ice Sheet has a huge section SOUTH of the Arctic Circle, unlike the West Antarctic Ice Sheet which is within the Antarctic Circle, thus Greenland Ice Sheet is subject to higher melting temperatures each year then the other Ice Sheets).
For these reasons the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is often called the Godzilla of Global Warming. Unlike the other two huge ice sheets, the West Antarctic Ice Sheet could break up and float within a day raising global ocean levels 20 feet over night. Greenland and the East Antarctic Ice Sheet would take decades to melt for neither has direct contact with the ocean. Thus the area around the Antarctic Peninsular is where temperatures have to be watched, and right now, at the height of summer they are well over Freezing.
xocet
(4,442 posts)Do you work with climate studies or in the polar regions by chance?
happyslug
(14,779 posts)And have been reading about it since the 1970s. An interesting subject related to Peak Oil, another subject I like to read about.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)have a few 0 degree days in a row and you can find yourself damn grateful for 17 degrees. To think that's how warm the South Pole can now get is scary to me.
Julie
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Still, though, it is pretty interesting.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)I'd bet hard cash it'll be top 5 hottest years if there are any takers.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)I just want to know how much money you're willing to part with.
None of what's happening now is 'the most _____ ever', not even the "It's man-made!" hyperbole. They blamed The Little Ice Age on witches and literally burned people at the stake over it.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)I do find it interesting that you are a denier, in any event.
I wouldn't even make the bet with someone who doesn't accept the temperature record.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Roughly 55,000,000 years ago the Earth was at a point called the PaleoceneEocene Thermal Maximum where there were palm trees in what we call the Arctic. It's geological reality. We are NOWHERE NEAR anything even REMOTELY RESEMBLING 'highest temps of all time'. Read it and weep. PM me for my mailbox address to mail the money order.
You'll also note points indicating Antarctic glaciation and thawing.

joshcryer
(62,536 posts)And it's clear that there's no chance in hell that you would agree to a bet based upon the instrumental temperature record.
I never once said "all time."
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Again, the Earth is roughly 500,000,000 years old. 100 or so years of 'instrumental' doesn't mean squat - even in the unlikely event you can actually demonstrate an anomaly. The parallels between now and Pope Innocent's climate change inquisition are uncanny. Funny even.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)So either you are practicing inane pedantry to 'prove' some point, or you are in fact unwilling to make a bet based on the instrumental temperature record (likely both). If you do not know that the OP is talking about the instrumental temperature record or that I am, also, I feel for you, as this is a basic deduction from the conversation and it shows a deep lack of comprehension in basic human communication skills.
Meanwhile, the precision on your "long term" record isn't even capable of picking up a daily temperature variance (indeed, that's why we like the instrumental temperature record, because it does pick up daily if not multi-daily temperature changes, the long term records to not do that).
So, please, by all means, put your faith in the long term temperature records. Just don't try to pretend you're willing to make a bet on the instrumental record when you're clearly dismissive of such record.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Which we aren't.
Additionally, this year is nowhere near the 'top 5' highest temps either.
My faith is in science, not histrionic hyperbole.
If you look at the big picture, it should be painfully obvious just how ridiculous the claims that a change of a few degrees is in any way 'man made'. Seriously. Every attempt I have seen to 'prove it' relies on cherry picked data - which makes it a lie. Looking solely at the last 100 years or so of data, while pretending the preceding 499,999,900 didn't exist is laughable.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)It's pointless. You're a full on denier.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)The 'instrumental record' is for an infinitesimally tiny sample. I'm not dismissing it, the temperatures are simply not "all-time high" nor are they "top 5 highest".
Let me ask you something else: do you believe the climate, at any time, has been static? I have seen NO horizontal lines - the climate record looks like a yo-yo being played with by a kid on a trampoline inside a C-130 coming in for a landing. If there was a generally level or straight line that suddenly went up around the industrial revolution I would be a 'true believer' - but that's not the case. Not even close.
Here's the last 10,000 years:
![]()
I find it mind boggling that you can look at that and believe that humans are responsible for climate change. Call me what you want, but I'm going with the accepted geological history.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)
This is the same exact graph (though it's mirrored) with the temperature record dates of 1855 and 2009 added in. The ice cores are delayed by as much as 100-200 years, because the ice must compact for them to be able to calculate potential temperature.
The reason you dismiss the temperature record is because it goes above and beyond anything in the last 10k years.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Hint: It doesn't. History is still history. The fact that you can look at the area that would roughly be the industrial revolution (or any part of it for that matter) and say to yourself "Here's where the geological and astronomical forces that manipulated that climate CEASED to affect the Earth and humans took the reins since we have INSTRUMENTS." is baffling to say the least. I also find it profoundly arrogant and ignorant. One of us is clearly in severe denial but we definitely disagree about which one it is.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)You've already established that you don't give a squat about the more accurate instrument temperature record (indeed, you grasp to older less precise data to make your case).
Meanwhile CO2 doesn't require the temperature record at all for us to know it absorbs and emits infrared energy (ie, is a greenhouse gas). I suppose you think releasing billions of tones of CO2 every year should have zero effect on the planetary energy balance?
Edweird
(8,570 posts)I'm guessing since it contradicts your faith. People like you caused about 100 people to be burned at the stake as witches for causing the climate to change.
"Relatively stable" is not 'stable'. The climate fluctuates wildly. There are no horizontal lines - the climate is, without exception, either heating or cooling. It has done so before the existence of humans and will continue to do so whether we die off or not. We are irrelevant. Holocene is only 10,000 years old. That's a little too early to make any grand pronouncements. (Was? Holocene is NOW)
The instrument record is fine - but it doesn't cover anything but the immediate time period. That makes it basically meaningless. The data I am 'grasping' to is the data that is available. However, as imprecise as it is, it still shows that there were much, MUCH warmer times. Your claims about the 'top 5' and the OP's "all-time" are absolutely, categorically and significantly WRONG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenland_Gisp2_Temperature.svg
![]()
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Look at your own data. It's stable for the past 10k years. Really, this is pointless. I knew there was something about you...
Edweird
(8,570 posts)It's not even remotely 'stable'. You're just making stuff up.
![]()
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)The dip on the left of '1000' is The Little Ice Age. It caused massive food shortages due to crop failures, game animal die offs. It killed MILLIONS of humans.
Furthermore, basing an argument on 10,000 years while neglecting the bigger picture is dishonest.
There is no stability.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Cool.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)We aren't causing now, just like witches didn't cause it back in 1484.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)...forces that it has to cause? Its absorption and emission spectrum is very well known. Something else would have to coincidentally negate that forcing, and I don't see that mechanism described anywhere.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)We are a mosquito fart in a hurricane. Here is the Vostok core data:
![]()
Where do you think the CO2 and Methane and other 'greenhouse' gasses came from? The ones that caused DRAMATIC climate change? Aliens? CO2 and other gas levels rise and fall on their own.
During the Permian-Triassic extinction event the CO2 levels were so high that the ocean itself was toxic and it killed off almost every living sea creature. Where did that CO2 come from?
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)All other sources have been sunk by natural sinks.
![]()
Logical
(22,457 posts)TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Try 4.5 BILLION years.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,461 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)I had that number in head for some reason.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00916FA395810738DDDA10894DA405B818EF1D3
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Without having a single clue?
Edweird
(8,570 posts)I encourage it.
Let's see what you've got.
Cheers
Edweird
(8,570 posts)If I find one factual error in any of your posts, I presume you are 'big' enough to live by example and admit that would impugn ALL your posts. Of course, I'm sure you've never misquoted or misstated anything ever, so you have nothing to worry about. But, just the same, I look forward to fact checking all your posts past, present and future.
Have a nice day
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)MilesColtrane
(18,678 posts)Since his home on the North Pole is going to be gone soon, he can relocate down South and not have to worry about packing his cold weather gear.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)holy crap
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)On a serious note, this is beyond sad. And it's even more sad that so many people don't believe that climate change exists and that man's greed is boosting the rate at which it is changing.
marmar
(79,739 posts)nt
DeathToTheOil
(1,124 posts)Here in Calgary.
Alberta.
Uh...Canada
marmar
(79,739 posts)nt
jpak
(41,780 posts)Those temps are absolutely balmy for Pole
yup
Dirty Socialist
(3,252 posts)I was wondering: when the Global Warming phenomenon first studied, did scientists predict polar temperatures were going to increase faster than the other areas of the planet? I do know scientists predicted:
More severe weather (happening)
Wetter in the Northern US (happening)
Drier in the Southern US (hapening)
Acceleration of glacial melting (happening)
If scientists predicted polar temperatures would rise faster than at the rest of the planet, it would add to an impressive defense of the global warming argument.