So many of us have been accused on here of wanting a Glorious Revolution. Let's get out with it!

[Zalatix]

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 06:57 AM - Edit history (3)

Got "TL DR" looking at this? No problem, it happens to everyone. Just go straight to the end for the short message.

I don't know of anyone here who wants a "Glorious Revolution", most likely referring to the 1917 Bolshevik-style revolution that resulted in the bloodiest dictatorship in history. Someone in another thread (link added since people believe I'm lying) accused some DUers of wanting this, but I doubt any such examples will ever be found. I for one am a fan of a FAR less tragic French Revolution, actually. Or maybe, as other posters in this very thread have mentioned, a rebellion like that which overthrew King James II.

But none of that is going to happen. Why?

Well, let's start with the fact that Democrats, unlike Republicans, turn on each other at the drop of a hat, and stay at each other's throats constantly. Take, for instance, this new bullshit - er, old McCarthyist bullshit claim resurrected like some bloody old zombie - that some of us want a BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION, mass death and chaos and all of that.

So let me explain what is going to happen to America instead.

Let's start with what's happening now. Occupy protesters are out there protesting for the interests of the working class. There are, according to some reports, 72 million registered Democrats. If even 1/10th of us cared about Occupy Wall Street enough to join them, there would be 7.2 million additional Occupiers out there. We could outsize the largest record-breaking protests in history if we took action and supported Occupy. But we don't. Instead, what's happening is Occupy is getting their asses beat bloody and raw by the police gangs. NYC Mayor Bloomberg is sitting comfortable while bragging that he has the world's 7th largest army. Police are sitting on their law enforcement forums bragging about beating Occupiers or cheering on others who do.

Meanwhile, we sit on the DU and whine about it, but do we see even 1/10th of our numbers out there? Nope. Probably not even 1/100, given the size of the Occupy protests.

There will be no Bolshevik Revolution. There won't even be a French Revolution. We couldn't even stage a voters' revolution in the 2010 elections. Hell, we couldn't even take out Scott Walker.

Those of us who are being painted as anarchists here want war and chaos? Nope, not gonna happen. Here's what is coming instead.

Food prices are going to keep skyrocketing. Water is going to become more and more scarce and the Plutocrats, like the Bushes, are going to keep purchasing water access rights. Everything you pay for is going to go up in price, unlike your wages. The Plutocrats' think tanks are even predicting a global resource crisis by 2030. They've stamped an execution date right on your ass.

Oh, there'll be a crisis alright. For the 99%, not the 1%. Oh I know, some say that when that day comes the 1% will get swept up in it. But that would mean war and chaos and revolution, right? And we all know that's just a Bolshevik anarchist wet dream. We just decided that we don't want that, didn't we?

Nope, instead we're going to be stuck with food shortages, health care that will get yanked back out of reach (and if the ACA evolves positively, we'll be hit with a manufactured shortage of doctors - and they're already talking about making that happen), a ruined transportation and electricity infrastructure that the Republicans have made a mockery out of us when we try to fund it adequately, and water supplies increasingly poisoned hydraulic fracking.

Meanwhile the Democrats are going to be arguing over whether one group is a bunch of revolutionary anarchists, with some folks taking a giant frosty piss on the graves of every oppressed peasant and worker who ever took to armed rebellion in the past by likening them all to bloody Stalinists. America will become little better than Mexico, which has been a hellish Plutonomy for the last 100 years.

Hell yes, I'd like to see this future averted by a French Revolution. The Plutocracy needs it burned into their psyche that bad things happen to those who try to turn the working class into disposable serfs. However I'll be happy to accept a voter revolt that overcomes the Diebold firewall and overthrows the Plutocracy in favor of a nation of laws that favor workers' rights.

In short:
TO HELL with "small, incremental solutions". WE NEED MAJOR, RADICAL CHANGES to save this country! We have Stage-4 societal CANCER and we need CHEMOTHERAPY.

[CleanLucre]

1. dayum

[FarLeftFist]

2. I wanna take this serious but the other day you posted that being gay was a choice and now I can't

take it serious. It throws your Liberalism and intentions into question for me.

[Zalatix]

5. I also apologized because that was a mistake.

[LanternWaste]

164. Was not intended to be factually accurate... or something like that.

Was not intended to be factually accurate... or something like that.

[cali]

3. gee, another Zalatix diatribe. and it's so original!

[Zalatix]

7. Another pointless Cali response. Can't say I'm surprised.

[dionysus]

94. you'll remember him when the revolution comes!111!

[CleanLucre]

4. cue the piranhas!!

[Zalatix]

6. I don't wear asbestos. I am MADE of asbestos.

[MADem]

9. People should avoid you then, if they don't want to suffer from mesothelioma. You're toxic!

http://www.mesotheliomahelp.net/

[Zalatix]

10. LOL I guess so!

[CleanLucre]

11. .... crickets .....

well at least agent provocateur is "helping"

[MADem]

12. We aim to please.

Life is not all doom and gloom, ya know.

[CleanLucre]

14. no real answer

to having bogus memes gutted

[Zalatix]

15. Nope, but things are steadily getting worse.

Are your food prices cheaper or more expensive than they were 10 years ago?

[MADem]

69. I think everyone's prices for everything--except, perhaps, real estate--are more expensive.

However, I live in the northeast, in an area where food is affordable. When I go down to northern Virginia, I find the prices astoundingly outrageous. I feel like I am in a Japanese supermarket down there.

Of course, even when Clinton was in office, the prices in DC compared to the prices in the northeast were gougingly outrageous, too.

[agent46]

8. Fuck it

Time to burn it all down

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. The "Glorious Revolution" was something quite different to the French Revolution.

The Glorious Revolution specifically refers to the deposition of James II of England by William of Orange. James was a Catholic, pro-French, and sought to impose French-style absolute monarchy and, it was feared, to re-establish Catholicism; bloody Mary Tudor's reign wasn't so far out of living memory at the time, and many people, understandably, weren't keen on the prospect. It was the Glorious Revolution that led to the establishment of constitutionally limited monarchy in England and to the English Bill of Rights of 1689 (which among other things influenced the American Bill of Rights). The French Revolution was a failure that ended in bloody terror with tumbrils rolling through the streets of Paris carrying victims for the guillotine and led to Bonaparte assuming the title of Emperor, and attempting to impose an enlightened despotism not merely on France but on the whole of Europe.

If you have to have a revolution, it rather seems to me that the French one is a terrible model to follow.

[Zalatix]

16. The "Glorious Revolution" that was mentioned in the other thread referred to the Russian one.

They were referring to the revolt that led to the Soviet Union. Compared to that the French Revolution was in fact tame.

However you're right in that the revolution against James II had a much better ending than either of the above.

[Summer Hathaway]

17. Wow.

It's hard to not take seriously someone who is a "fan" of the French Revolution. No doubt you own the T-shirt, the boxed DVD set with never-before-seen footage, and have a framed poster of Sydney Carton on your bedroom wall.

Your vision is so glamorous, so melodramatic, so enticing - and completely devoid of any understanding of the human misery involved, before and after the fact. Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, the world is quite a different place than it was in the 18th Century.

First off, your persecution complex is as annoying as it is unwarranted. "So many of us have been accused on here of wanting a Glorious Revolution." Really? So many of you? Name them.

"So let me explain what is going to happen to America instead." This is followed by a doom-and-gloom scenario that is a cross between a Rapture Ready diatribe and the lunatic ravings of a down-and-out evangelist who still sells his snake-oil wares from under a tent in places where a good Revivalist Meetin' is still the only show in town.

"Meanwhile, we sit on the DU and whine about it ..." No, WE don't sit on DU and whine - YOU do. And you do so without any explanation as to why you are not too busy elsewhere, walking the walk instead of talking the talk, to find the time to tell other people what THEY should be doing.

Your ignorance about the way of the world is only surpassed by your arrogance in assuming that you can predict the future - a future you dream will come about, just so you can say I told you so, regardless of the consequences you naively envision as an HBO Special - complete with an all-star cast, fabulous costumes, dramatic dialogue - and the occasional spillage of real blood, just to keep it authentic.

Real revolution, here in the 21st Century, takes place every day in small incremental steps towards common goals. It is a slow but steady process by which people identify the challenges that must be met - and meet them, one at a time. It does not move forward at a pace that crushes the downtrodden for the sake of made-for-TV drama, but in ways that allow for thought, introspection, and ultimately an unstoppable movement towards change for the better.

I cannot help but note your comment that "Democrats, unlike Republicans, turn on each other at the drop of a hat, and stay at each other's throats constantly." As someone who has taken every opportunity to trash the current POTUS and his policies, the irony of your statement is something to be savored.

[Zalatix]

19. Wow, indeed. Your post is full of lies, denial and ignorance.

First of all, I have not taken many, if any opportunities to trash President Obama. That right there is a bald faced lie. Everyone take notice that this poster will not respond to this with any evidence supporting this bullshit claim that I have routinely trashed Obama.

Second of all, if you think my claims are melodramatic, then:
Do you deny the cost of just about EVERYTHING has been going up, up, and up?
Do you deny that wages have been stagnant?

As for your "incremental steps", how did that work for you in Wisconsin? Hmmm? How is that working for the whole labor rights movement? How are those incremental steps working out for environmental protection laws? How is that working out for banking regulations? How's that whole taxes for the rich thing progressing? Incremental steps? Real revolution my ass. The only REAL REVOLUTION happening now is the Reagan revolution which began in 1980 and is still running roughshod over America. President Obama is putting up a giant speed bump for the Reagan Revolution but it's still working its way over the speed bump. Again, see: Wisconsin and the 2010 election if you want to claim I am wrong. BTW how did the 2010 election go as far as incremental steps are concerned?

40% of working class America's wealth was wiped out in this current mess. FORTY PERCENT. Tel me again about your incremental steps. Right now we have a PLUTONOMY in which 37% of all consumer spending is done by the upper 5% of the population. This economy is rapidly approaching a point where it doesn't even need 95% of the population. Tell us again about your incremental steps!

Your diatribe has all the sophistication of an ostrich sticking its head in the sand saying "it can't be happening, it just can't be happening".

I don't predict the future, I simply read the writing on the wall. And it is obvious that, unlike you, I am very much up on current events. If you had any understanding of current events you would know that the only incremental steps we're taking are steps BACKWARDS.


I await evidence of your claim that I have "taken every opportunity to trash the current POTUS and his policies".

Have a nice day!

[CleanLucre]

108. "This economy is rapidly approaching a point where it doesn't even need 95% of the population."

"This economy is rapidly approaching a point where it doesn't even need 95% of the population."

This is crucial.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

117. "the only incremental steps we're taking are steps BACKWARDS."

That's the way I see it, too.

More militarization, more privatization, more power for the wealthy, more ignorance, deteriorating infrastructure, repression and/or ridicule of those who want things to change...

[sabrina 1]

147. You are absolutely correct about this:

you would know that the only incremental steps we're taking are steps BACKWARDS.

What I think is that people on internet boards who try to silence people like you are either part of the 1% themselves, or think they are on their way there. But they definitely don't seem to have a grasp of what people in the real world are facing.

[Zalatix]

149. Yup. Either that, or outright denial.

[Summer Hathaway]

152. In reply ...

What has evolved incrementally?

Let's start with three biggies: the women's rights movement, the civil rights movement, and the LGBT equal rights movement.

Anyone with even a passing knowledge of history is aware that women have won their rights in increments, from being allowed to vote to having access to birth control and abortion, to being accepted in law school and medical school, etc.

The civil rights movement was also a matter of incremental victories, each used as a foundation upon which to build the next recognition of rights and further victories in that struggle.

The LGBT community has been fighting the good fight for many decades now, and have also chosen their battles wisely and well. They are closer to enjoying full equality than ever before, thanks to their tireless efforts and their determination to join each battle and emerge victorious in the end.

The aforementioned movements are all still engaged in meeting each challenge head-on, and will continue to fight for recognition of their rights and their equality as citizens for as long as it takes.

Your view of history seems to be that all of these things happened overnight - which is hardly the case. When the suffragettes won the right to vote, they didn't go home and say, "Well, that's it. No more work to be done here." Nor did the civil rights workers, nor did the LBGTers who are intent on full equality, which takes not only time and effort, but patience and determination to outlast those who would seek to deter them.

It would be interesting to hear you tell women, black Americans, and gays and lesbians that incremental steps are always backwards steps. I think they would disagree with your assessment rather vociferously.

Now that I've given you a much-needed lesson in US history, I'd like to move on to another topic.

Do you know what "projection" is? A perfect example would be a poster on a message board who continually responds to those who disagree with his views as being thin-skinned, in denial of the facts, or angered to the point of outrage - when it is actually that poster himself who continually demonstrates his own feelings of vulnerability, denial and anger at every turn.

You keep projecting (look it up, if you still don't understand the concept) your own anger by accusing those who have replied to you, calmly and rationally, of being upset that you've "gotten under their skin", when it is obvious that the only skin that's been gotten under is your own.

"I hit Summer's irrational rage button. I hope she didn't explode."

Actually, I don't have an 'irrational rage button'. Most people discard that button by the time they are two or three, already cognizant at that early age that temper tantrums accomplish little, if anything at all. On the other hand, your 'irrational rage button' seems to have been carried into adulthood, and remains fully engaged.

So feel free to start the revolution without me - but by all means keep us posted on your leadership in that effort. No doubt when the citizenry is made aware of how many 'recs' you got on a message board, they will understand that you are a force to be reckoned with.

As for my delay in responding to you, I would point out that I have this other thing that goes on, pretty much 24/7. It's called a life, and it tends to take up most of my time.

[Zalatix]

156. To hell with small, incremental changes. WE NEED IMMEDIATE AND RADICAL CHANGE!

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:13 AM - Edit history (1)

That's three steps forward. Four, with the ACA. Now, how many steps backward?

I'll just stick with the majors, since you seem to be in need of a major lesson in current events while dictating that others need lessons in history.

So let's count all the steps we've taken backwards, over the decades:

1. Half of working class America's wealth lost.
2. An economy rapidly descending into a Plutonomy so bad that even illegal immigration is down.
3. Unions disappearing. Can't even get Scott Walker kicked out of office. Unions lost face across most of the country as a result.
4. Global warming proceeding apace. Ocean acidification. (I'll be gracious and roll those two into one.)
5. Rainforests still being cut down like wheat before the scythe.
6. Global water supplies dwindling into crisis level shortages.
7. America is leading the way with extrajudicial executions and the killing of innocent bystanders on a scale that makes MyLai look like a Facebook internet brawl.
8. Diebold. Citizens United. Foreign nations intervening in American elections with their multibillion dollar campaign contributions.
9. Our nation's infrastructure collapsing with funding perpetually coming up short.
10. Mass privatization and disaster capitalism running amuck.
11. Public worker pensions going byebye, private sector pensions long gone.
12. Minority unemployment skyrocketing. How's that for incremental progress?
13. The Reagan revolution still running wild.

I'll stop at 13. I think even you get the point.


Yes, I'm under your skin, big time. You are hell bent on believing that we aren't on a runaway descent toward ruin, you're like that band on the Titanic that wants to keep playing while the ship is sinking. You don't want people like me running around telling everyone that we hit an iceberg, and that we're taking on far more water than we're pushing out.

And I refuse to shut up. I refuse to stop pointing out the facts. You will not respond by even attempting to refute any of the 13 points I made above, because I am perfectly correct and you know it. And that is what you cannot deal with. America is sinking and it is sinking fast.

We don't need your incremental solutions. America is at stage-4 cancer.

We don't need your Wallace Hartley act. We need chemo. NOW.

You may now have your fiddle back. Enjoy!

Edited to add: Just in case I didn't make this really, really clear:
To hell with small, incremental changes. To hell with them 100 times over. WE NEED IMMEDIATE AND RADICAL CHANGE if this Republic is to survive.

Some people, obviously, cannot stomach that.

[Summer Hathaway]

162. I was pretty sure

you didn't have any idea what you were talking about. Thanks for removing any lingering doubts I may have charitably harbored.

"You are hell bent on believing that we aren't on a runaway descent toward ruin, you're like that band on the Titanic that wants to keep playing while the ship is sinking. You don't want people like me running around telling everyone that we hit an iceberg, and that we're taking on far more water than we're pushing out."

However, congrats are in order for being able to cram that many cliches into two sentences!

[Zalatix]

165. LOL thanks for showing that you have nothing to back up your ridiculous argument.

My facts are solid and irrefutable.

1. Half of working class America's wealth lost.
2. An economy rapidly descending into a Plutonomy so bad that even illegal immigration is down.
3. Unions disappearing. Can't even get Scott Walker kicked out of office. Unions lost face across most of the country as a result.
4. Global warming proceeding apace. Ocean acidification. (I'll be gracious and roll those two into one.)
5. Rainforests still being cut down like wheat before the scythe.
6. Global water supplies dwindling into crisis level shortages.
7. America is leading the way with extrajudicial executions and the killing of innocent bystanders on a scale that makes MyLai look like a Facebook internet brawl.
8. Diebold. Citizens United. Foreign nations intervening in American elections with their multibillion dollar campaign contributions.
9. Our nation's infrastructure collapsing with funding perpetually coming up short.
10. Mass privatization and disaster capitalism running amuck.
11. Public worker pensions going byebye, private sector pensions long gone.
12. Minority unemployment skyrocketing. How's that for incremental progress?
13. The Reagan revolution still running wild.

The truth. 100%. Nobody will ever claim those facts are wrong. You've got nothing.

DIG IT!!!

[Zalatix]

161. Chris Hedges: Time to Get Crazy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002890882

[Zalatix]

20. Oh and I want to ask about a few more of your "small incremental steps"

Let's talk about the state of employee pensions. What incremental steps are we taking there?

How about the state of teachers' unions and teaching jobs? Plenty of incremental steps happening there - toward privatization and unaccountable charter schools, that is. Should I even talk about the incremental steps being taken in Louisiana's public education system?

And Michigan, wow, Michigan. I'm sure you count the onward march of disaster capitalism an incremental step, too. They're firing elected officials there and replacing them with appointed, private industry city managers. Oh, and Michigan Governor Rick Snyder, the guy who masterminded that shit? That was a hell of an incremental step we took when they tried to recall him... and failed at the petition level.

And what about all those summary executions we're doing in foreign nations, that are also killing innocent civilians along with those so-called "targets"? I bet their relatives see things as an incremental step. NOT.

And what about the incremental steps we're taking to resolve minority unemployment?

Or perhaps we're making incremental steps toward easing food prices and fighting global warming? Yup, incremental steps alright. BACKWARDS, that is.

An unstoppable movement towards change for the better? You gotta be kidding me. Maybe in someone's fantasy world. Feel free to take a sledgehammer to me if we ever see that "unstoppable movement" happen in real life.

Oh yeah, if your post wasn't a one-shot drive-by, I'm sure you'll come back and say we're taking all these steps backwards because ZALATIX was mean enough to point it out... not because the Plutocracy is kicking the shit out of us.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. Very interesting discussion here. I have no skin in the personal side of this back and forth, so I

can read it without emotion. Last week I was digging through the 2004 archives for election
fraud discussions for some data, and it confirmed what I have been thinking for quite some
time. That we used to be able to have respectful conversations about big ideas, without
getting personal. I miss that.

I agree with you that everything does seem like it's going to hell in a hand basket, and there is
not enough of a force to change it. Not enough people who care enough. Too many people who
don't care one iota. Too many people who feel it's too big of a cancer to fix. I also don't believe
there has been incremental change for the good - but look at it more like tiny battles where we
may have staved off complete defeat. If we didn't elect Obama, and we had had four more
years of a Bush, it may have indeed been total defeat without hope. To me, we are in a tenuous
remission state.

How did the Plutocracy succeed? By changing and controlling the minds of so many who can not think for themselves. By diverting their attention from their greed and making them think instead that the government was the enemy and giving away their money to millions of lazy freeloaders. Knowing full well that they would never do the research to see that the dollars we spend on charity are far exceeded by the dollars we spend on the war machine. I am sure this was part of the plan since without them, there would be enough to revolt.

And the saddest thing of all is that they turned these people into uncaring, selfish people, just like themselves. How
else can you explain Jean Schmidt going down on her knees in utter joy when first thinking that ACA had gone down
to defeat? Utter joy that millions of human beings could continue to suffer without healthcare?

[Zalatix]

41. You hit the nail right on the head.

Chemotherapy, death, or peaceful reform.

Peaceful reform is like that guy preparing to board the Titanic en route to the steerage section.

[DearAbby]

81. Totally agree

As an impartial witness, I would love to see a forum with these two presenting their cases. Very Enlightening topic.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

112. Ah...good idea...a 100% personal-free exchange of ideas forum. For that matter

wish the presidential debates were like that too...oops..maybe that was a Noot idea. Miss ole Noot - as wrong-thinking
as he is - at least he had some intellectualism to him. And Sanitarium (speaking of not getting personal) was right
about Rmoney being the worst possible person to take on Obama and healthcare.

sorry for digressing

[CleanLucre]

87. truth shall set you free

[Zalatix]

127. Summer Hathaway is away right now trying to find examples of those 'incremental steps'

She or he will be away for a very very VERY long time!

[CleanLucre]

129. takes time

that's why it's called "incremental"

[dionysus]

146. you're quite the puffed up little popinjay, aren't you?

[Zalatix]

148. Boy I just keep getting deeper under your skin.

I'm sure, though, that you're hard at work convincing yourself otherwise.

[JNelson6563]

151. This is so interesting

Your side of the argument, those posting to cheer for you, ya'll seem to be advocating for the enlightened "let's stick to the facts in this discussion and keep the personal out of it" yet you have been getting personal with them since your first reply to their post.

It is so funny to see. Like watching the GOP decry how mean the Dems are. lols

Julie

[Zalatix]

154. I haven't said a discouraging word to anyone who hasn't said one to me.

Don't dish it out, won't have to take it.

[JNelson6563]

157. lolz That takes me back....

"But he did it first mom!1!"

[Zalatix]

158. Lolz that takes me back... "Everyone else is okay doing it, but you're not!"

That's you.

Have a nice day!

[DCBob]

54. Wow.. good response.

a bit harsh but good non-the-less.

[treestar]

58. Great post

Our system allows for change - perhaps not as well as a parliamentary system. But then we have other guarantees and advantages. In this revolution, they could get a very terrible system instead - as in the French Revolution or Chinese - there's no guarantee what you get won't be worse.

[SidDithers]

62. Boom goes the dynamite...

Sid

[dionysus]

97. yeah, summer just pwned the OP

meanwhile, look at the rec list...

[SidDithers]

115. Love DU3's transparency...

Sid

[Zalatix]

128. Rec list suggests that 14 people say I pwned Summer Hathaway. Bet that hurts you a lot.

[dionysus]

132. LOL.. you're lucky they got rid of unrec...

[Zalatix]

134. Oh quit your whining about a lack of unrec. Besides, your champion has scurried off anyway.

[dionysus]

139. my my, you seem to get quite upset when people don't like your opinion.

[Zalatix]

140. Dang, you can dish it out but you sure can't take it, can you?

Grow a thicker skin... and have a nice day!

[dionysus]

144. we seem to have a disconnect here. you're the one getting all angy and i'm the one laughing...

[Zalatix]

145. We do have a disconnect here. It stands between your statements and reality.

Whoops, I pushed your rage button again...

[great white snark]

68. Excellent response.

[Zorra]

76. Meanwhile, "Every day, almost 16,000 children die from hunger-related causes. That's

one child every five seconds.

If I was a praying woman, I would say this prayer every day before I got out of bed...

..."Goddess, protect us from sanctimonious Third Way Provincial Elitists."

[Zalatix]

89. But those are incremental steps forward, BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE and all that.

[dionysus]

95. you win the thread.

[Zorra]

133. No, wait...let's see how the judges scored it...

...


................................ .....................................

[Zalatix]

141. I hit Summer's irrational rage button. I hope she didn't explode.

[bob4460]

142. People like you

Are the reason why this country is so fucked.The repigs are in lock step and the so called Democrats are ready to fight each other.The insanity of wanting to down this well thought out post is well just stupid,we have to fight back some how or another, but everyone is so into their own little world, they cannot see the forest for the trees.I really wish we could get behind someone,anyone for some real change this false flag shit is really bumming me out.

[Zalatix]

160. We don't need "small, incremental steps". WE NEED MAJOR, RADICAL CHANGE!

[Nye Bevan]

155. Excellent post.

And a perfect example of a common goal is universal health care. The poster you are responding to spends a lot of time whining and sniping over what is clearly one of Obama's most significant achievements as President, while most of us recognize the ACA as an imperfect, but significant incremental step towards, the goal that we all want.

[JoeyT]

18. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Yeah, it's red baiting, but they're pissed off at anyone that doesn't think He can do no wrong, so if it wasn't red baiting it would just be something else.

[Zalatix]

22. Yes, I agree. My point was some of us were being accused of wanting the 1917 Russian revolution

when that isn't even remotely true.

[Ken Burch]

23. Of course it isn't.

Although, in saying that, we do need to make a distinction between the original ideals of the Revolution, on the one hand, and the bloody mockery that Stalin and Mao made of those ideals.

There's nothing wrong, for example, with actually running a society on the principle of "from each according to her(and his)ability...to each according to his(or her)needs." The Stalinists never even tried to create anything like that.

There are a lot of historical possibilities to study.

We should look at people like William Morris, Rosa Luxemburg, the Krondstadt rebels of 1921(the last group in the USSR that came anywhere close to creating an anti-authoritarian model for life there)the Diggers(the writings of Gerard Winstanley still survive and are also neatly summarized in Leon Rosselson's "The World Turned Upside Down&quot and the collective values of some Native American and African societies.

[Zalatix]

31. wow, kinda embarrassing that I haven't heard of the Diggers before

or worse, where is some information on those native American and African societies?

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. I thought it was embarrassing that you thought the Glorious Revolution referred to the Bolsheviks

[Zalatix]

47. Considering the context in which it was mentioned, and the responses that came from others

what other conclusion was there to take from it?

[DCBob]

32. I think its more a matter of process rather than effect.

I suspect most of us on this board want a "revolution" of sorts... why else would we be posting on a site called DemocraticUnderground. I think the difference is how we want to get there. Im a "pragmatic revolutionary" so I like the slow, methodical, peaceful route. Others here seem to be hoping for a immediate total collapse of the system thinking some sort of liberal utopia will emerge from the ashes... which I think is terribly naive and dangerous. Maybe thats not the actual attitude of posters like yourself but thats my perception.

[Zalatix]

35. At this point I don't ever see a liberal utopia happening.

What I see happening is America being dragged downward toward the level of Mexico.

In an economy where 40 PERCENT of America's working class wealth got wiped out after 2008 and 37 PERCENT of all consumer spending is being done by the upper 5%, you will be hard pressed to show how we are not going to become like Mexico.

That's a crucial thing. How are we going to avoid becoming like Mexico? That answer is not coming easily. We have no parachute and we're in free fall, full scream ahead.

If you were stuck in Mexico you would look at a total collapse as a fucking vacation. Ever wonder why the poor in Mexico flee that country so much? The rich live like kings while the rest live in a world little better than The Road. All that's missing in Mexico right now is the cannibalism, and the increasingly depraved drug gangs are yea close to filling in that void.

[DCBob]

45. A successful revolution doesnt necessarily mean the economy will improve...

In fact it will likely be quite the opposite.

Im looking for a stable more balanced society less dependant on fossil fuels and with less strain on the environment. That means a reduction in consumption which means a slowdown in the economy. Maybe thats not what others want but I think thats the only way we can have long term sustainability on this planet.

[Zalatix]

49. The American Revolution was particularly bloody, as was the US Civil War

The victors both managed to construct a better society. It took a while, but it succeeded.

A reduction in consumption doesn't mean a slow-down; it means a change in direction. Standards of living can skyrocket if a reduction in consumption means the production of fewer but longer-lasting and sturdier products, with a solid system of recycling to repurpose obsolete goods (see: iPad 100 being replaced by the iPad 101) into new goods.

I'm not seeing, however, how we are going to get there peacefully. Do you see how that's going to happen?

[DCBob]

50. A reduction in consumption always results in a slow-down in the economy.

Economics 101.

[Zalatix]

53. Standards of living can still rise, for everyone.

[DCBob]

57. Our high standard of living is directly tied to consumption.

In particular fossil fuels, especially oil, especially cheap oil. This world would still be in the dark ages had it not been for oil. Im not saying I like it but thats the reality. And as oil gets more scarce and more expensive we are likely to head back to the dark ages unless we can find and develop acceptable alternatives.

[Zalatix]

84. Yes you have a point there.

Plus, oil was actually more environmentally friendly than cutting down trees or hunting whales.

The issue is now we need to move onto solar power and renewable, clean energy. The sun bathes Earth in more energy per day than the whole world uses in decades. I think you can imagine the benefits to our standard of living that can come from harnessing that.

[DCBob]

125. Solar is the most likely replacement but..

I think its going to take some time to build enough capacity to replace oil. I still think natural gas is a good short term alternative until solar is developed further. The problem is we often get complacent about alternative energy when there is no crisis at hand. We have to push the developent of alternative now even though oil is in surplus. Surely any idiot knows this is not going to last.

I know you dont like natural gas due to the fracking issue. I still think that problem can be overcome with better technology and stiffer regs.

[Zalatix]

136. We should be like Germany when it comes to solar power.

I believe Germany has replaced half their nuclear power plants with solar and are generating almost as much solar power as the entire world combined. If they can do it, the only thing holding us back is cultural inertia.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUSBRE84P0FI20120526

As for fracking... well I hope you're right.

[CleanLucre]

88. If our revolution

is scheduled for every four years, maybe a thing to do is overturn Citizens United and boot lobbyist hijackers out of Congress.

[Zalatix]

90. I'll tell ya what... if we can put an end to campaign contributions, we almost win it ALL.

Revolution averted, game over, the Plutocracy goes back to the hell it came from.

I'd go for that.

[CleanLucre]

96. How to get

more people to WORK on that than have been ignoring Occupy?

[Zalatix]

101. Hell if I know. I can't figure out why the Democrats don't come out en masse for Occupy.

And nobody wants to explain why.

[CleanLucre]

107. because

they know they already live in a police state/town even if they don't admit it

[Lydia Leftcoast]

119. Look what happens to Dems who color outside the corporate lines

Ridicule, redistricting, lack of support from the national party coupled with vigorous attacks from the right, sabotaging of primary runs by establishment Dems, and earlier, assassination.

[Zalatix]

150. And now character assassinations are a new weapon to use against true liberals.

Look how they've tried to use it against Obama... non-American, Kenyan, Muslim, and so on.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. No. Wrong end of the civil war.

The glorious revolution, as mentioned up thread put william and Mary on the throne, deposed James, and ended the attempt to undo what Henry viii had started with respect to cathocism. Cromwell came in at the front end, sometimes referred to as the great rebellion. Actually the glorious revolution is not technically part of the civil war, but clearly it was related to the turmoil that conflict started.

[Ken Burch]

121. OK. Still, its results were purely reactionary, and helped create the "British Empire".

It imposed "Good King Billy" and led to the immiseration of Ireland AND the coerced Act of Union that crushed the Scots and their culture for over a century.

[Spider Jerusalem]

52. That was the English Civil War, not the Glorious Revolution.

In Britain, the Glorious Revolution of 1688 led to a constitutional monarchy restricted by laws such as the Bill of Rights 1689 and the Act of Settlement 1701, although limits on the power of the monarch ('a limited monarchy') are much older than that (see Magna Carta).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy

[Ken Burch]

120. I stand corrected

Still, it also led to the worst century-and-a-half of subjugation the people of Ireland ever experienced.

[Spider Jerusalem]

122. I don't know about that

Cromwell had a policy of ethnic cleansing and forced population transfer that saw three-fourths of the population of Ireland subject to forced relocation from Ulster, Leinster and Munster to Connaught (the poorest area of the island, with the worst farming); as many as a hundred thousand Irish were shipped off to slavery in the West Indies (as likely as not to die of malaria or heat exhaustion on a Barbados sugar plantation, if they survived the journey). I'm not sure how what came after William III was worse than that. There's a reason the Irish will spit if you mention Oliver Cromwell, even today.

[Ken Burch]

131. After the triumph of "Good King Billy"

The Protestant champion(who, weirdly enough, was backed by the Vatican AGAINST the pro-Catholic James), the Penal Laws were put in place in Ireland, barring Catholics(most Irish people and the Catholic minority in England and Wales)from serving in the Irish Parliament, voting, owning property(including owning a horse worth more than a certain amount of funds), and, essentially from living at any level above that of tenant farmers.

It also helped lead to the forced passage(through the bribery of the Scottish Parliament)of the Act of Union that reduced Scotland to, essentially, a British colony in which all manifestations of traditional Scottish culture(after the failure of the Jacobite Risings of 1715 and 1745)were banned.

The exploitation of English peasants and workers continued in this period with no respite at all.

On the other hand, if you were a wealthy Anglo-German aristocrat, it was a great era for wigs and beauty marks.

[Spider Jerusalem]

137. all of which is worse than forced relocation and slavery, how?

[Ken Burch]

138. they destroyed any chance of reversing the forced relocation and slavery.

I'm not minimizing what Cromwell did in Connaught...but the Penal Laws essentially made it impossible for the Irish to resist British domination at all.

From 1690 to 1830(the year the Catholic Emancipation act passed the British Parliament and began the far-too-slow process of ending the oppression Britain had imposed on Ireland)the vast majority of the Irish people were totally powerless and consigned to the direst poverty and despair imaginable.

[DCBob]

24. Id like to see a revolution... minus the blood and the guillotines.

No doubt things need to change and need to change dramatically here and across the globe or we are doomed. The problem is I think we need a "quiet" peaceful revolution otherwise it could just make matters worse.

I do believe our President believes the same but his priorities at the moment are just keeping the ship afloat.

I thnk if he gets re-elected and the economy is stable, he is going to focus on bigger ideas and changes.

[Fumesucker]

25. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable" -JFK

[DCBob]

26. Alot of wisdom in that statement.

I had never heard it before.

[cbrer]

27. It's quite possible

With the size and financial clout of the American market(s), if the public decides to change something, it wouldn't cost a drop of blood.

Plus enough involvement with electronic voting could get that crap straightened out too.

SCOTUS? Only time can help.

[Ken Burch]

34. Don't think there are many of us who actually WANT blood and guillotines.

Radical transformation, yes...slaughter, not so much.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. The OP seems rather partial to the guillotines, actually

Something about the plutocrats needing to be taught a lesson, or some such.

[DCBob]

48. I meant that as more figurative than literal.

However, I think there are many who are ready for violent insurrection. They often make subtle and not so subtle comments suggesting just that.

[hobbit709]

28. History shows that sooner or later there is an uprising against the oppressor.

And usually the results are not pretty. Things would have to get much worse here before we see that kind of bloodletting here. But I don't see any signs that the 0.1% will stop being greedy.
Slave revolts are the only thing the master class fears.
I may be old and fat but if the time comes I'm willing to stake what our forefathers did "Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor"

[EFerrari]

29. The last time there was a big social movement in this country

that tried to do something about inequality, the Feds decapitated it by discrediting, rounding up or murdering its leadership. That's what happened to the Black Panthers, the Young Lords, to AIM and probably to others I'm forgetting right now.

[Zalatix]

36. Ayup, now that is the truth.

[robinlynne]

109. However, we were successful in making great change becuase of those social movements!!!!

[cbrer]

30. The Plutocracy needs it burned into their psyche that bad things happen

to those who try to turn the working class into disposable serfs.

Can I just savor those words for a minute?


Aah!

[Zalatix]

33. You will be FLAMED as a Bolshevik Revolutionary for savoring that.

Get behind me, I'll take the flames, lol.

[Laelth]

37. When I hear the term "Glorious Revolution" ...

I think of the nearly-bloodless shift of power in the U.K from the House of Stewart to parliament that occurred in 1688. Parliament selected a new royal family (William and Mary of Orange), booted the Stewarts, and effectively created a democratic Union that was much less a monarchy and much more a constitutional monarchy. The fact that the revolution was nearly bloodless is why it was called "glorious," I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_revolution

If that's what we mean by "glorious," a bloodless shift of power from our oligarchic monarchs to the people, then yes. I would love to have that kind of revolution. If we're talking about a very bloody revolution that yields a well-intentioned but ruthlessly totalitarian state (i.e. the U.S.S.R.), I'll pass.

-Laelth

[Warren Stupidity]

42. I don't think the op has a clue what the term means.

Instead the op thinks it has something to do with the bolshevik coup in 1917.

[Zalatix]

51. Perhaps you need to actually read the cites I post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=878537

The anonymous DU'ers see this victory as a stumbling block to The Glorius Revolution.

They would much rather see widespread misery, death, and economic destruction in this country in order to bring about their Utopia.

That doesn't imply a "bloodless Glorious Revolution". That implies we want to see a revolution filled with "widespread misery, death, and economic destruction". Aka the Oktober Revolution of 1917, which Treestar then clarified in his/her response.

My contention is that in a nation where food prices are skyrocketing, water supplies are being poisoned by hydraulic fracking DESPITE the fact that companies know this is destroying water supplies, many Democrats have grown insensitive to the killings of innocent brown-skinned/foreign women and children by combat drones, DISASTER capitalism is running rampant, union membership is shrinking, even Scott Walker can't be recalled, a petition for a Rick Snyder recall can't even pass, global warming is proceeding apace, 37% of all consumer activity is done by 5% of the populace and 40% of working class America's wealth has been destroyed in just 4 years, not a single person on the DU or anywhere else has any case for how ALL OF THESE RUINOUS TRENDS are ever going to reverse...

no one is even going to TRY to explain how these trends are going to end. All they're going to do is trash talk... because everyone here knows we are in freefall with no way to even slow our descent. Everyone.

Let the first one who knows how we're reversing any of that, speak up. Anyone? Hello?

[CleanLucre]

91. .... crickets .....

[Occulus]

63. I don't think it's *possible* to know what is meant by the phrase "Glorious Revolution".

There are three or four different 'definite explanations' for the term upthread. Obviously, it means different things to different people.

I think people should stop verbally slapping Zalatix for using the term 'incorrectly'. None of them can define it either.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. Really it is possible.

Try wiki. It is a specific and unambiguous event in European history.

[Zalatix]

79. The person who first made the "Glorious revolution" comment didn't know that.

I know this is hard for some to follow but I'll try anyway.

This entire thread was inspired by this quote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=878537

The anonymous DU'ers see this victory as a stumbling block to The Glorius Revolution.

They would much rather see widespread misery, death, and economic destruction in this country in order to bring about their Utopia.

This person obviously wasn't referring to the event you are referring to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Cromwell's civil war, that was easy

it is kind of a historic convention.

[robinlynne]

111. not the OP. he/she is referring to disgusting OP written yesterday, which called 1917 the glorious

revolution. and called anyone who doesn't think the ACA is 100% wonderful, and stills calls for single payer, a bolshevik.

[trumad]

39. Hey in the Crystal ball of yours....

can you give me tonight Lotto numbers?

[Zalatix]

43. Take off the rose colored blinder glasses and you might be able to see the numbers on TV.

[trumad]

55. Come on now...

Been on this site for 12 years.... do you really think I wear glasses like that?

9/11 ---Iraq War--- WMD's.... Bush---MSM--- and so much more has made me one of the more skeptical humans on the planet.

You have great confidence in your predictions and I applaud you for that.

But---you also have a nagging tendency to have a my way or the highway attitude and a belief that those who disagree with your future predictions are wearing---errr--- Rose colored blinder glasses.

Ahhh let's just cut to the chase....

You have no fucking clue how this is all going to play out.

Oh and BTW: Where are my lottery numbers?

[Zalatix]

59. You are wearing them now.

You have no fucking clue how this is all going to play out.

Wanna bet?

I'll repeat. My contention is that in a nation where food prices are skyrocketing, water supplies are being poisoned by hydraulic fracking DESPITE the fact that companies know this is destroying water supplies, many Democrats have grown insensitive to the killings of innocent brown-skinned/foreign women and children by combat drones, DISASTER capitalism is running rampant, union membership is shrinking, even Scott Walker can't be recalled, a petition for a Rick Snyder recall can't even pass, global warming is proceeding apace, 37% of all consumer activity is done by 5% of the populace and 40% of working class America's wealth has been destroyed in just 4 years, not a single person on the DU or anywhere else has any case for how ALL OF THESE RUINOUS TRENDS are ever going to reverse...

There is no way in hell that this status quo is going to end in any other way but disaster. Let's just cut to the chase - don't tell me, show me how I am wrong about this.

You can't. Which is why you come up with your lame lottery number response. You know we're plummeting toward the death of a civilized society. Unless you never spent a minute in a history class, you know that total ruin has happened before to every civilization that has ever existed, ever, period.

Now, show me where I am wrong. Don't tell me, show me.


As for your lottery numbers, your rose-colored blinder glasses still prevent you from seeing them. You keep going with that lottery numbers and I'll keep pointing out your rose-colored blinder glasses. Have a nice day!

[trumad]

66. Dude----

Really? You're absolutism is fucking boring as shit.

[Zalatix]

73. Dude---

Your denial of reality is boring as shit.

[NNN0LHI]

61. I would say quit while you are ahead trumad

Never going to be able to reason with the poster.

Don

[trumad]

67. OH believe me....

Fucking people like that bore the fuck out of me.

Their superior brilliance over everyone including the folks I named in the OP---- is simply amazing.

Yawn.

[Zalatix]

75. You will never be able claim that I am factually wrong. You have no counter argument.

Your attempts to duck and dodge me are boring as hell.

[trumad]

85. And you will never be able to predict the future.

[Zalatix]

86. Well, I just did. And what I said is 100% correct, too. You can't refute anything I said.

Now go get bored with THAT.

Have a nice day!

[CleanLucre]

98. You have to look at where

we are and where we are heading and DO SOMETHING or it becomes the future by default. That's how we got HERE

[Zalatix]

74. You will never claim that I am wrong when I say this, because I am 100% right.

food prices are skyrocketing

water supplies are being poisoned by hydraulic fracking DESPITE the fact that companies know this is destroying water supplies

many Democrats have grown insensitive to the killings of innocent brown-skinned/foreign women and children by combat drones

DISASTER capitalism is running rampant

union membership is shrinking

even Scott Walker can't be recalled

a petition for a Rick Snyder recall can't even pass

global warming is proceeding apace

37% of all consumer activity is done by 5% of the populace

40% of working class America's wealth has been destroyed in just 4 years


Go ahead and say I'm wrong on any of the above.

No one on the DU will come out and say that I am wrong.

This means that I am the one who is being reasonable here.

[dionysus]

99. i've seen these same tired doomsday predictions for 12 years here.

I'LL come out and say you're wrong.

with all due respect, you're just one in a long line of doom and gloomers to pass through here. it's not original, it was woo then, and it is woo now.

have a nice day.

[Zalatix]

102. Those aren't predictions I posted. Those are historical facts.

NEXT?

[CleanLucre]

100. that sounds

reasonable

[Number23]

153. Yep. "Reason" along with "knowledge" appear to be on short supply

with this poster.

But attitude and combative hatefulness? Got it in spades.

[Zalatix]

159. Yet you admit you can't show where I am wrong.

[CleanLucre]

93. you don't have to predict the future

to read the writing on the wall. OP already stated it. Those who don't want to see it must be mighty cozy where they are at, not looking at the big picture.

[Zalatix]

110. Trumad's *cough* reasoning *cough* is much like this:

A drunk guy gets into a car and takes a drive at 7am. A school is along his path. He has three priors for DUI accidents.


I, Zalatix, am the doom and gloomer saying that an accident is sure to happen. Everyone needs to get the fuck off the road until the cops take this drunken idiot down. Or, if the cops are too busy putting down an Occupy protest, someone needs to go vigilante and blow out this idiot's tires before he gets near the school.

Trumad is like the guy arguing "you can't predict the future, you don't know this drunk guy with three previous DUI accidents is going to get in another accident. Stop screaming for people to go vigilante or get the fuck off the road. It's not gonna be THAT bad!"


Let's just say you're an innocent driver on the road along this drunken guy's path, taking your kids to school, when you find out this drunken idiot has just gotten on the road. Which outcome are you going with? Keep driving and hope the cops get him, or get off the road/shoot out his tires before he gets too far?

[treestar]

56. Nobody accused you of this, dear

However, there have been over the years, posts like, "why aren't people rioting in the streets?" and the argument that things have to get really bad before the people will revolt, so it's better to let the Rs win and do their worst, so that will happen. These types of posts have been on DU for years. You haven't seen them yet, perhaps.

[bahrbearian]

65. HI Sweet Cakes

[woo me with science]

60. DU Rec

Occupy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. I'd like to look more closely at what happened in the Scandinavian countries

In the 19th century, they were a major source of desperately poor immigrants to America, but by the mid-twentieth century, they had some of the highest living standards in the world.

I know what the "before" and "after" pictures look like. I wonder what the process looked like.

Actually, I think that our process was derailed by the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. Both were advocating economic justice and were winning popular support for these positions (RFK had just won the California primary) at the time they were assassinated, only two months apart.

King's assassination was especially suspicious, since a no-account drifter like James Earl Ray somehow managed to fly to London first class--in an era when flying coach to Europe cost as much in real terms as business class does today.

But there are some real oddities connected with the RFK assassination, too, particularly the fact that the LAPD destroyed its records of the investigation, ostensibly to "make room." (WTF? Destroying the records of the most historically important case it has ever investigated?)

These assassinations really knocked the wind out of the progressive movement.

[CleanLucre]

103. thank you

Americans have PTSD beneath their apathy

[Lydia Leftcoast]

113. I think it's the case with me

I'm old enough to remember everything from the late 1950s, so I remember above all, how hopeful and optimistic the 1960s were, and it annoys me to see them reduced to "sex,drugs, and rock and roll."

From 1968 onward, it was one blow after another, including the oil crisis of 1973 and the following years of high inflation, Reagan's election and the way the Dems barely put up a fight against his policies, three years of unemployment and under-employment thanks to Reaganomics, the illegal wars in Central America, and so on and so on, more hope and optimism in 1992, only to have it dashed with things like NAFTA, Welfare Reform, and the repeal of Glass-Steagall, all of which set the stage for our current economic distress. Then I saw the presidential campaign up close for the first time as a first soldier, and it was terribly disillusioning. Now we have as our president a Tony Blair type who thinks his job is not to offend the Republicans when we really needed an FDR.

I can no longer bear to watch the news on TV--it's too immediate--and reading newspapers online only makes me despair at the sheer--it's not stupidity, it's worse, it's deliberate ignorance of such a large portion of the population.

Whenever I leave the country, whether it's to go to Japan, Scandinavia, England, even Cuba, I find myself relaxing, just to be away from witnessing the decay of this country (not that other countries don't have problems, but the U.S. has so many that could have been avoided if the Democrats had been more savvy and gutsy) and when I return, I clearly see the undercurrent of tension and anxiety and anger in this country, as well as the propaganda in the mass media.

[CleanLucre]

114. "tension and anxiety and anger"

and denial that adds up to insanity. Most discouraging is that people went along with all that shit, including leaders, SINCE THEN "and the way the Dems barely put up a fight against his policies." THE WRITING HAS BEEN ON THE WALL A VERY LONG TIME.

[WillyT]

71. K & R !!!

[Zorra]

72. Really excellent post, Zalatix.

It's just like Ben Franklin said, back in the day, long before the majority of people in this country became fully lobotomized into sheep-like submission by 1% owned MSM TV...

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Like George Carlin said...

"You have to be asleep to believe it"

[Zalatix]

78. Boy, did Carlin get it spot on much more often than he didn't.

[MjolnirTime]

77. If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow

[white_wolf]

80. If you're going to quote Lennon, you should know that he later admitted he regretted those lyrics.

[Zorra]

82. Wow. Thanks, I never knew that, w_w. You may find this Rolling Stone interview with John

interesting.

I always liked the Beatles, and this interview kind of surprised me. Although I don't advocate violent revolution, and I believe that Occupy will eventually bring about necessary change through violet evolution , I do believe that we will inevitably replace the inhumane, undemocratic profit orientated system of the global plutarchy with a humane, human/life/environment orientated democratic way of life.

So that’s my feeling. The idea was don't aggravate the pig by waving the thing that aggravates–by waving the Red flag in his face. You know, I really thought that love would save us all. But now I’m wearing a Chairman Mao badge.

http://www.jannswenner.com/archives/John_Lennon_Part2.aspx

[CleanLucre]

106. he knew

that it will be revolution of awareness, not politics, that individuals have to wake up and be responsible

[Zorra]

116. +1

[AsahinaKimi]

124. hey thanks for that link

Interesting read about John Lennon. I didn't know he had such a love for San Francisco.

[Zalatix]

83. Oooh, I did not know that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. I hardly think you understand the French Revolution

If that is your prefered model, get those pink glasses off.

And as pointed above, Glorious Revolution is not the Russian revolution, though I know exactly what post you are referring to.

As to the rest...likely will be another result...one that has been referred to in yet another thread, and possibly the dissolution of the US if current, end of Empire, trends continue.

Yup, academic and serious folks, like in foreign policy, are talking of the end of empire, which is what you describe. A few have even hinted to the dissolution of this continental empire as well.

[DevonRex]

104. Hey, if I'd been in Russia I'd have joined

the revolution. People were starving and freezing to death.

[Marrah_G]

105. I think we are too big, to divided and eventually something has to give

When the divide between the rich and the poor, the zealots and the secularists, becomes too big, then you will see the people rise up. We are foolish to believe our present government and boarders will last forever. History has shown this to not be true.

[RagAss]

118. For the 500th time !!!!.......

Angry people do not start revolutions !!!! Revolutions are started by people who see themselves as already dead !!!!

[cbrer]

123. Ths wouldn't have anything to do with

The resurgence of the term "Zombie" would it?

Just sayin'...

[cantbeserious]

130. Yes, The 1% Plan Is To Make Life So Miserable That The 99% Turn On Each Other

eom

[Zalatix]

135. Sarcasm noted. Because the 1% has never done that before in history.

Not in the Roman Empire, not in the fuedal system, the Tsars never tried that in Russia.........

[bob4460]

143. Nice post n/t

[LanternWaste]

163. During the end of the Victorian era through all of the Edwardian era

During the end of the Victorian era through all of the Edwardian era, Britain went through enormous political, economic and social upheavals-- not through revolution, but through law. Additionally, the mere act of revolution has, in so many cases, been the catalyst for even more repression, more violence, and more tumult rather than the end of them.



In short: I've stopped expecting contemporary Americans to have any sense of historicity as it does so interfere with the quick-fix mentality far too many of us seem to have. I've stopped expecting many Americans to consistently apply critical thought on top of historical theory in favor of simply yelling on the internet.

We are indeed free to be ineffectual, petulant, sub-literate idiots yelling to no avail whilst pretending to be well-thought, well-read, well-intentioned citizens.

[Capn Sunshine]

166. Good thing all of you are here where we can keep an eye on you

Please continue your vital keyboard revolution. We'll get back to you when the time is nigh.
Watch for the signal.

[Zalatix]

167. Tell that lame wisecrack to Anonymous.

You'd better cash out your bank account before you do, though.

[Capn Sunshine]

168. Anonymouse is already where we can keep an eye on them

Remember, we control the baddest hackers on the planet.
They are watching you as I write this
</tweak>

[Zalatix]

169. LOL ROTFLMAO who's "we"?

[snooper2]

170. who's going to bring the water?

[dembotoz]

171. we see stuff going on in Europe--what would trigger that sort of stuff here

a romney win?

prob when people understood what the ryan budget meant for them