So we can't criticize Islam on here?

[Legends303]

I noticed the left especially the hard left say that anyone that speaks against Islam is a bigot or racist. This kind of thinking has propelled a mad man in the white house. I am liberal just as the rest of you but we can't have a double standard when can criticize Christianity all day but Islam we protect like our only child . With the recent attacks in the UK expect Trump and co to use this to justify their Muslim ban.

[LibraLiz1973]

1. *Islam

[RandiFan1290]

2. Cool story, bro

[demmiblue]

15. Yep. n/t

[Union Label]

43. Off topic post here

But I must say I find the posting of the caricature with a gun in it very offensive.

[HAB911]

3. You will find a delicate thread running through DU

one that doesn't allow some comments about things dearly held, like pro-sports, guns, and religion

[janterry]

4. I can't speak for the board

but most of what I see is criticizing some of the people who practice Christianity (hypocrisy and the like) . Because this board is about politics, we don't have a heated discussion of Genesis or those belief systems. Or a thread about being subservient to your husband (or why stoning is okay - or not okay in the NT). Likewise, we don't have an in-depth discussion of the Koran.

From my perspective, there is a place for that discussion - but I can't imagine why have it here.

[Legends303]

6. Its politics either way when you talk about religion

Espically in this political climate

[ExciteBike66]

9. Stuff does get heated in the "religion" forum,

but that is where it belongs...

[still_one]

10. There is a religion group where folks can discuss and debate various

aspects of religion

[HopeAgain]

5. You can do what you want...

I have no control over other's ignorance.

[ExciteBike66]

7. I think it mostly comes down to

the fact that there are so many Christians in this country who wish to impose their religion on others (through the GOP), while there is very little evidence of Muslims or Jews doing the same.

All three religions are pretty much equally abhorrent, if you read their books. That said, it is a good thing that most adherents to those religions do not take their own books seriously (else we would have a lot more deaths by stoning in this country).

[babylonsister]

11. I don't think that's true.

I think using a broad brush to indict all Muslims is not acceptable. But there are ugly people in every religion. If you wanted to criticize the perpetrators of 9/11, have at it. But criticizing the Gold Start dad, Mr. Khan, not so much.

Common sense should prevail.

[superpatriotman]

12. I'm fine with criticism of any desert death cult

They're all daffy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. We are feel free to criticize extremists here, regardless of their race, creed, religion...

We are feel free to criticize extremists here, regardless of their race, creed, religion, or political orientation.

[edhopper]

14. Come over to the Religion forum

we discuss and criticize all religions there.

And here, if you frame it as how people or countries practice Islam, criticism is welcome.

I would challenge anyone here to defend Saudi Arabia, or the Taliban.

[LAS14]

16. The criticism of Christianity in this forum is usually as ignorant as the criticism...

...of Islam on the right. So if using criticism of Christianity is the standard, then I think we should refrain from criticizing Islam as well.

Criticism of extremist interpretations is fine. But probably should go in the religion forum.

[ananda]

17. Please don't use the word "liberal" in this context.

If you have an issue with the way anybody talks about Islam,
do not make generalized assumptions about any group.

Just state your problem with some evidentiary details, meaning
specifics.

What exactly about Islam do you yourself wish to criticize? If
you're afraid to say it, then don't.

Go to some Islamaphobic rightwing hate sight and vent there.

And you will always have my sympathies for the burden of hate
and frustration that you carry, but never for the harm that you do.

[Orrex]

18. Christianity is the overwhelmingly dominant majority in our culture

It infests our political system as well as our social and economic policy, and it is ubiquitous to the point of being semi-invisible to those who aren't actually conscious of it.

As long as Christianity holds such hegemonic dominance, it's silly to complain that people are saying mean things about it.


Sorry, but that's how it is.

[LanternWaste]

45. Much like the imaginary nature of national borders, economics and politics itself infest us

"ubiquitous to the point of being semi-invisible to those who aren't actually conscious of it...


Much like the imaginary nature of national borders, economics and politics itself infest us all.

But it's important we pretend one bit of the imaginary is more real than another-- else we wouldn't be human, I'd guess.

[Docreed2003]

19. Don't be ridiculous....

Equating an entire religion to a group of extremists that have bastardized their own beliefs is what the right would do. I will stand up for any religious group being unfairly attacked precisely because I am a liberal and a human being. I don't view the world as black and white so I have the ability to separate religion from extremism. If that belief brought us Trump, as you said, then I'll wear that mantle. I'll also add my name to any registry this admistration creates, because I know, as a Catholic, I won't be too far down the line from Muslims and Jews.

So no, you can't demonize an entire religion here. You can discuss ways to prevent and target and fight extremism, but no...you cannont demonize an entire religion without forceful pushback. The left is filled with atheists, Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, agnostics, Jews, Wiccans, pagans, et al. We fight amongst ourselves, we discuss the benefits and the downfall of religion, we call each other out on the carpet every day, but we DO NOT...I repeat...DO NOT... equate every atrocity in this fucked up world with those who would defile and debase our religious backgrounds.

So, enjoy your troll...but that mindset is neither liberal nor will it be tolerated by those of us who respect each other and have the ability to see past the extremism of the few.

[Docreed2003]

42. I claimed no moral high ground...

I'm glad you found my post amusing...but the truth of it remains. Discrimination of any variety is not tolerated here on DU. I'm not speaking for the entire forum...the rules of the forum are very clear on this. But congrats on judging my post in the worst way possible

[KingCharlemagne]

20. You can't insult Islam here. But has someone prevented you from

criticizing Islam?

ETA: OP seems to have done a hit-and-run thread. Prima facie evidence of ill intentions.

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. And as a follow up...

Fuck Islam!

Please note i did not say "Fuck Muslims"

All the Abrahamic faiths are equally deplorable and harmful

[KingCharlemagne]

39. Avowed atheist here. You'll get no argument from me about

the absurdity of these belief systems.

I would note, though, that when Marx decried religion as "the opiate of the masses," he did it not so much to put down religion per se (although he does do that in subsequent passages), as to note that the masses needed some salve against the ravages and soul-crushing alienation of industrial capitalism. Marx recognized that religion satisfied certain emotional and psychlogical needs of working people, so I'm not sure "harmful" does full justice to religion's function.

[oberliner]

21. What inspired this post?

Was a post critical of Islam deleted here?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. If you kill an innocent person you're scum regardless of on whose behalf you think you are doing it.

[leftynyc]

23. A Muslim ban wouldn't have stopped

what happened in London yesterday - terrorist was British born. The double standard at DU about Islam is very old news.

[still_one]

24. The OPs assessment is not correct. Bigotry is a TOS violation. If someone

makes the statement that "all Muslims are terrorists", that is a bigoted view, and most likely would be viewed as a TOS violation.

The same applies with other religions. Comments like, "All Jews are bankers, or cheap", is a bigoted view.

If someone criticizes the hypocrisy of someone who identifies themselves as Christian, advocating a policy which takes away people's, let's say health insurance, that ISN'T bigotry.

If I bash a group such a ISIL or Al Queada(sic), that is not bigotry

If I criticize the Pope, Netanyahu, or some individual or policy, that is not bigotry

In most cases this really isn't rocket science

[Crunchy Frog]

25. There's plenty of criticism of Islam on here.

If you haven't seen it, you haven't been looking, or paying attention.

Some of us are concerned about singling Islam out, especially right now when Muslims are being scapegoated in this country, and people are getting shot just for looking like Muslims. Attacking people when they're already down is something that alot of liberals are not comfortable with.

[Squinch]

26. What's stopping you? Was someone mean to you?

If what you mean is that if you state opinions about Islam that others disagree with, they will argue with you, that would be a correct description.

Or if you mean that you might get hidden if you make blanket and bigoted statements about any group, then that is correct too.

[Bradical79]

27. Sure you can

It's easier to criticize Christianity for most though as that's what a lot of us are familiar with. Some religious criticisms are more well informed and based in reality than others.

[procon]

28. By 'criticize', if you mean flogging rightwing tropes that denigrate an entire religion

then, yeah, you're probably correct.

A more useful discussion might be had if you post your specific grievance that made you feel uncomfortable as a perceived "bigot or racist" in criticising the Islamic faith.

BTAIM, by aligning your personal POV with Trump's Muslim ban, which was denied by the courts as a flagrantly bigoted and racist policy, and is not going to change due to recent current events, seems to contradict your assertion.

[True Dough]

29. I'm not reluctant to express my disgust

about those who use Sharia law to justify misogyny, or those who believe apostasy justifies killing or those who use religion to persecute gays.

Those things are a true abomination!

But that certainly is NOT representative of all Muslims. I know Muslims who abhor those beliefs and behaviors as much as I do, despite the fact that you can find passages from the Quran that arguably condone such things. But not every practitioner of a faith takes every word from a holy book literally or interprets every line the same as the next person.

And as much as I personally have no use for Christianity or Islam or Hinduism, I will fight tooth and nail for others' rights to practice those religions in ways that do no harm to others. I acknowledge that religion also spurs people toward altruism as well. There's a yin and a yang, so to speak.

I'm also a big advocate of bringing more refugees into North America, Muslim and otherwise. There's arguments as to why economics should result in limits on how many we can aid, but we haven't hit that ceiling yet, IMO. Not even close.

So, yeah, if you bring some balance in your view of Islam, I think you'll be fine stating some criticism. But if you are an unbridled "hater" then you should expect a rough ride.

[Demsrule86]

30. No you can't. tI is bigotry to criticize an entire religion.

[Mosby]

47. No it isn't

There are lots of people here who think religions are stupid, designed to control the masses and are often used to justify violence against others.

[Demsrule86]

31. You can't insult Christians either. I have seen posts deleted for that...

And that is not what put Trump in the White House...it was the Russians...don't you watch television?

[bitterross]

32. I believe you are perfectly free to criticize PRACTICIONERS

I believe one is free to criticize how people practice their religion. There are plenty of examples from every religion of hypocrites and charlatans. However, to criticize a religion itself is not very productive.

Some one else's beliefs are just that - their beliefs. Not mine. I do not have to agree with their beliefs in order to support their right to have their own beliefs. I do not need to criticize their beliefs in order to make mine seem "more legitimate" than theirs.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

33. Can't criticize whining, either. Good post. nt

[MineralMan]

36. Who are the 'we' you're talking about?

Do you want to criticize Islam on DU? I don't mind, but it is a big topic, really. Exactly what about that religion do you wish to criticize?

What, exactly, do you know about Islam? Have you made a study of that religion? Have you read the Quran? Do you know the tenets of the various Islamic groups?

I don't think that a carefully thought-out criticism of aspects of Islam would get you in any trouble here. But, you might want to avoid a broad-brush approach to your criticism of Islam and Muslims. That would certainly lead to difficulties.

Further, what do you mean by "hard left?"

I suggest you start by defining exactly what it is you are talking about, and then criticize what you wish to criticize, specifically.

Good luck with your posts. They may require a good deal of work and research.

[uponit7771]

37. Not with bigoted false languages the hate groups use

[lunasun]

38. "This kind of thinking has propelled a mad man in the White House "

...???

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Don't blame the actions of an individual on the actions of a whole group and you'll be fine !

[NightWatcher]

41. I criticize ALL religions here. One guy's imaginary friend is no more powerful than other's

They're all batshit loons to me.

[kydo]

44. Been registered since 2005 and I don't recall anyone here ever being told that.

You need to stop visiting those alt-right messed up places. They spout lies and say all kinds of whack out stuff, then try to pass it off as real.

It will take about 28 days but then you will understand how messed up those places are. I will pray for you.

[Orsino]

46. If you mean criticizing religious faith in someone's heart...

...rather than critiquing particular scriptures or tenets held by certain individuals, then yeah, the smell of bigotry is strong.

[LanternWaste]

48. You may criticize anything you desire to... regardless of agenda or bias.

You may criticize anything you desire to... regardless of agenda or bias, as are we all.

However, if you need to pretend that a counter-criticism, dismissal, mocking or trivialization of any particular premise you narrate is actually a practical and absolute denial of your ability to make that criticism in the first place, then yeah... your bias will indeed prevent you from noting Islam being treated like anything other than your only child.

Regardless of your insistence of alleging a liberal CV.

[kcr]

49. Not being able to criticize Islam is why we have Trump? Huh.

Interesting comment, there.