Ah how far technology advances...

[nadinbrzezinski]

back in the dark ages, when the Insight first came out, it took half the car... that is the battery pack. Well today we went down to cover the San Diego International Auto Show. Not only were there electric vehicles, not just the Volt or the Leaf.... but full sized trucks that are also hybrid electric.

We are moving slowly towards a whole new generation of technology.

This is how technology moves. I am far from an expert, but as far as batteries are concerned, I'd say we have had major leaps in technology.

This is good.

[greyl]

1. Wish we could say the same about our culture.

But the system works great for products and terribly for people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Oh fully agree...

we need to evolve as a society... and full trucks that are hybrid electric, for city driving... are still not something I personally would recommend. Now if you are in the boonies and need a working truck... sure, why not?

[marasinghe]

14. wise man. this has been a lament of my misbegotten life.

our intelligence & knowledge, both increase - by leaps & bounds;
while our collective wisdom stagnates somewhere between prehistoric shark & a legion of army ants.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. The people are advancing just fine-- the institutions & political parties haven't caught up. nt

[onehandle]

3. Apple Hydrogen Fuel Cell Battery Plans Revealed`

The plans could create computers and phones with weeks-long battery power. It would also make the devices lighter and less bulky.

According to the Telegraph, hydrogen fuel cells work by converting hydrogen and oxygen into water and electrical energy. This technology is already being explored for cars and the military.

"Our country's continuing reliance on fossil fuels has forced our government to maintain complicated political and military relationships with unstable governments in the Middle East, and has also exposed our coastlines and our citizens to the associated hazards of offshore drilling," reads the patent application. "These problems have led to an increasing awareness and desire on the part of consumers to promote and use renewable energy sources."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101410042

[Hassin Bin Sober]

4. When am I getting my f--kin watch-phone?

What's taking so long? It's not like I'm asking for a flying car (anymore).

[onehandle]

8. Eminently, I'd say. nt

[tkmorris]

21. You can buy one right now

http://www.imwatch.it/

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I am never disappointed as to what one can learn here

Just a tad pricey... or not, depending on how far these things can go.

They got my geek factor though.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. Well it's about time!

[SomethingFishy]

42. I'll see your "watch-phone" and raise you

a watch computer:
http://www.yankodesign.com/2010/05/25/in-2020-we-can-wear-sony-computers-on-our-wrist/

2020... 8 more years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Nothing quite this revolutionary at the show

[Motown_Johnny]

18. The question is, where do you get the hydrogen?

If you get it by running an electric current through water to separate it into H and O2 then you are actually using more energy than you would by simply running the device on electricity.


If you get it from natural gas then you may as well be running your fuel cell on natural gas. It would be more efficient than separating out the Hydrogen first.



I like the idea of fuel cells, to bad it all looks like a bait and switch for natural gas.

[Muskypundit]

5. My flying car would beg to differ.

[cowcommander]

6. Is there any practical way to charge these cars without hooking them up to a power station?

Probably some sort of self-sustaining solar charging station?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Not yet, but I am sure somebody is working on it

most prefer 240 v... some can do 110.

Technically, my guess, is that it should not be that difficult and if you have solar, and it is wired to your home... technically it is a solar powered station.

[Bob Wallace]

20. Sure...

At least a semi-practical way.

People, not many, have set up dedicated arrays of solar panels to charge their EVs. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Once your EV batteries get full any further electricity from the panels is wasted.

If you drive somewhere when the sun is shinning you're wasting the power your panels could be generating.

If the Sun fails to shine you don't get charged.

Better, IMHO, to connect your panels to the grid. Then charge your EV when it's most convenient and that for most people is going to be at night when the grid is generally well-supplied.

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. "The Singularity."

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. With the ammount of computer controls

yup, we are moving in that direction.

[MisterP]

15. "the Rapture for nerds"

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Not quite

the singularity does not mean the end of the world, just an incredible change...

If the theorists are correct... it will be something like the 1900s when compared to the year 900.

[MisterP]

39. the world doesn't end after the Rapture, either--canonically, it's replaced with a New Earth and a

New Jerusalem

what Charles Stross meant by that throwaway comment is that Kurzweil, George Gilder, and LaHaye all share a vision of a world driven by an innate teleology that ends in discorporation, in getting to heaven without having to die, in overcoming the resistance of material reality, in living in a perfect utopia; both are also driven by pants-piddling fear of death, a very strong predilection for neoliberal economics (Gilder and Reagan, LaHaye and Amway), and a bizarrely hermetic worldview: in Kurzweil's case, that we're really just software, in LaHaye's, that the entire cosmos is a clock wound up with events from Daniel and Revelations literalized and placed in neat order on the clock dial

here's something by Steven Shaviro on Kurzweil and Stross: http://www.shaviro.com/Othertexts/Singularity.pdf

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. So I am baffled by your use of the term

In fact, the way experts use the word, no, not rapture, but the way you have... we have gone through it a few time already.

The fall of Rome... which led to the middle ages.

The age of discovery

The Scientific and Industrial revolutions...

Weird.

[zabet]

11. Considering

that the first electric cars were produced in the US around 1895.....I would not call the advances in this technology slow but, say that the technology and it's development was largely ignored from 1930 to 1990.
Regulatory action bought this technology back into the forefront in the early 1990s.
Link for info:
http://inventors.about.com/od/estartinventions/a/History-Of-Electric-Vehicles.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. In the modern day

that is a piece of trivia most people really do not want to know...



Hell, the three different drive systems early on were amusing to say the least. My all personal favorite is actually the steam car.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. Did you see any fuel cell vehicles?

A few years ago it was going to be the new big thing. At last year's Detroit Auto Show I made a point of looking for them and could only find one, and it was an import (Mercedes maybe).


I think it is pretty clear now, in the short term at least, that fully electric and Volt style hybrids are the way the technology is going.

I honestly don't think any alternative fuel source vehicles have a chance at competing for years to come.


Although, there was a recent breakthrough in fuel cells, it is to new to be in any vehicles for a while.



http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/fuel-cell-0516.html

^snip^


MIT engineers have improved the power output of one type of fuel cell by more than 50 percent through technology that could help these environmentally friendly energy storage devices find a much broader market, particularly in portable electronics.

The new material key to the work is also considerably less expensive than its conventional industrial counterpart, among other advantages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. No, no fuel cells

but a new rating

MPG-E, that is how many equivalent miles per gallons you go on.

So if you are in the market for an EV vehicle, that will be the MpG rating.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. MPGe has been around a little while

but I have not seen in on stickers in new cars as of yet.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent

^snip^

The MPGe metric was introduced in November 2010 by EPA in the Monroney label of the Nissan Leaf electric car and the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid. The ratings are based on EPA's formula, in which 33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline

[Dewey Finn]

25. "I am far from an expert"

Thank you! That's a confession I've been waiting years to read.

[hobbit709]

27. I'm still waiting for the Quick-charge battery.

Electric vehicles won't really take off until the power pack can be recharged in about the same time it takes to fill a gas tank and the charge will take you at least 300 miles.
Until then electric vehicles are only good for short haul uses. Fine for the average commuter, but highly impractical in the wide open spaces.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Well the Volt

with it's generator, has a range of 300+ miles... so yes, technically I can take it to LA...

At that point though it is acting like a hybrid.

But assuming I could afford one... and that I could actually get the charger through the HOA, even in San Diego, we would go months without filling a tank.

[Bob Wallace]

34. Threshold a bit lower, I think...

A 175 mile range and 95% charging in less than 20 minutes would let one drive a 500 mile day with only two short stops.

Few people are going to drive 500 miles and stop only long enough to fill their gas tank.

The Honda Fit coming out this next year has a 123 mile range and uses Toshiba SCiB lithium-ion batteries which can accept a 95% charge in 18 minutes.

The SCiBs are also rated for 4,000 cycles which makes them >400,000 mile batteries.

---

Initial purchase price is what puts most people off. Even though a Nissan Leaf is cheaper to purchase (without subsidies) and operate over 12 years than a 30MPG $20k gasmobile.

Battery prices are coming down and should be reflected in 2013 model prices. Purchase contracts were already in place for the 2012 models when battery prices dropped.

---

A ~175 mile range might not be necessary. We've got the technology to swap batteries very quickly. Just create a compartment for an extra battery that one could rent along the highways, use for the multi-hundred mile trip and drop off at their destination. No reason to own the extra >90 mile range if you're only going to use it once or twice a year.

A 100 mile range with <20 minute, 95% charging would be fine for most people, most of the time.

[Javaman]

28. Plus there is also this...

Magnetic (rare-earth-free) breakthrough may have significant pull

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11272525

freeing us from the rare earth virtual monopoly that china has is big. I hope this pans out.

[Fumesucker]

29. The motor in the Tesla Roadster does not use permanent magnets..

It's actually an AC induction motor where the magnetic field in the rotor is induced by the rotating magnetic field created by the coils in the stator.

http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/motor

Electric motors come in many varieties, each with a different approach to creating mechanical force (torque) from the simple interaction of two magnetic fields. The Tesla Roadster uses a three-phase Alternating Current (AC) Induction motor. The AC Induction motor was first patented by Nikola Tesla in 1888. AC Induction motors are widely used in industry for their reliability, simplicity, and efficiency.

The Roadster motor has two primary components: a rotor and a stator. The rotor is a shaft of steel with copper bars running through it. It rotates and, in doing so, turns the wheels. The stationary stator surrounds, but does not touch, the rotor. The stator has two functions: it creates a rotating magnetic field and it induces a current in the rotor. The current creates a second magnetic field in the rotor that chases the rotating stator field. The end result is torque. Some motors use permanent magnets, but not the Roadster motor -- the magnetic field is created completely from electricity.

[Bob Wallace]

35. Toyota...

will not use rare earth element motors in their coming EVs.

Toyota is getting a lot of its EV technology from Tesla.

[EOTE]

31. I'd like to know why the current Insight gets half the fuel economy of the first Insight.

Why would simply adding a back seat reduce fuel economy so significantly? I'm amazed that within the decade or so when the first Insights became available, the economy dropped from 80+ to 40+ MPG. I'd love to pick up one of the first gens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. I would have loved to ask that question myself

but at six in the morning... there was nobody maning the Honda booth. This brings me to the next item. This is the second largest show in the West Coast. LA is first... and you could tell who wanted to sell and who was there because everybody else was. Honda was there because the cool kids were there... so was Dodge RAM and yes another one of the American brands.

Props go to Jeep, Ford, Infinity and yes Cadillac...

We also learned of some other cool tech. One vehicle revealed there (prototype) from Infinity. it has a rear facing radar\sonar... that will apply brakes if you do not after warning you have somebody behind you. Now that strikes me as the type of safety equipment that SHOULD become standard.

The full story, with photos will be up this afternoon, when it does I'll link to it.

[Bob Wallace]

36. Self driving cars...

We'll see them introduced one feature at a time.

We've already got self-parking cars. Now ones with automatic braking while backing up.

As people get more comfortable with automatic features for slow moving situations they will be expanded.

Auto-stop and go is going to be a big hit for all those people who commute in traffic.

[Motown_Johnny]

37. .

http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-mileage/honda-60-mpg-surprise-25564.html

^snip^



Honda’s 60-MPG Surprise

PUBLISHED FEBRUARY 17, 2009


When Honda announced that the new 2010 Honda Insight would “only” average about 41 or 42 mpg, some hybrid fans wondered what went wrong. Forget that Honda’s goal with the new five-door model is affordability, not maximum mileage. The major ding against hybrids has been extra cost, and Honda was aiming once and for all to prove that gas-electric technology could come with a modest price tag—in this case about $19,000. (No official exact price yet.)


Real-world mileage numbers for the 2010 Honda Insight might far exceed the official EPA ratings.
Nonetheless the company’s revival of the “Insight” badge set an expectation that Honda would regain the mpg crown from the Toyota Prius. The first-generation Honda Insight—retired in 2006—was rated by the Environmental Protection Agency at 70 mpg on the highway (which translates to about 65 mpg in the EPA’s updated system). That’s a far cry from the Insight’s expected highway mileage around 43 mpg.

Just when expectations for the Honda Insight were being recalibrated… Surprise! The first set of real-world road tests of the 2010 Honda Insight are arriving, and they are consistently higher than 60 mpg. Auto journalists using a smidgen of care—a light foot on the accelerator, staying at legal speeds, and coasting when possible—are getting these remarkable results, with some help from the "econ" mode and the dashboard’s interactive color-coded feedback system.





It looks like the 1999 model was ranked at 61 mpg city and 70 mpg highway (not quite 80+).
This was with a 3 cylinder engine, a manual transmission and a kerb weight of 1808 lb.

http://articles.cnn.com/1999-10-08/nature/9910_08_honda.mpg.enn_1_fuel-economy-fuelefficient-emissions?_s=PM:NATURE

^snip^

The Honda Insight is the most fuelefficient car, according to the Environmental Protection Agency annual miles per gallon rankings. The twoseater car gets 61 miles per gallon in the city and 70 on the highway.

[Aerows]

38. They have inexpensive electric bicycles now

The batteries are light enough to fit under the seat, and they are cheap! If I lived close enough to work, that's what I'd be "driving" most days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Story

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/8263

[Motown_Johnny]

43. good article, bookmarked for future reference

I take it there was no hybrid Jeep? 2 years ago at the Detroit show there was a Jeep display with a sign claiming numbers very similar to the Volt display. Last year it was conspicuously absent. I guess they dropped the project.



I would like to see something about the Ford C-Max too. I guess they are being rolled out in Detroit next month. There have been so many changes to that project I just can't keep up with it. I hope they get back to a "Volt" style vehicle, but it seems that plans for that are on hold for now.






Yes, I am a big Volt fan. I think that extended range electrics are the most logical next step for one car families.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Hubby took a photo of the dash by the way

that I think you will enjoy.

Only down side of this story... MEDIA was allowed at five in the morning. So we rolled out of bed at four.

[Motown_Johnny]

45. The Volt dash?

I saw it thanks, but was able to sit in a Volt at last year's show. Not new to me but still nice to see it in the article.



(Plus I have been following that vehicle for years, but that is another story)

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Yup, both the escalade and the volt

It was fun to take those photos, just way, and I mean this WAAAAAYYYYY too early.

Though breakfast afterwards was nice.