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Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:00 PM

Declare the last election null and void

after drumph is impeached or before. I don't care which sequence happens.

HRC should be appointed POTUS as she clearly would have won but for all the interference.




48 replies, 5529 views

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Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply Declare the last election null and void (Original post)
BSdetect Mar 2017 OP
SharonAnn Mar 2017 #1
lapucelle Mar 2017 #2
lapfog_1 Mar 2017 #4
Generic Brad Mar 2017 #6
L. Coyote Mar 2017 #13
triron Mar 2017 #7
hrmjustin Mar 2017 #3
PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2017 #5
forgotmylogin Mar 2017 #16
PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2017 #20
forgotmylogin Mar 2017 #21
PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2017 #42
boston bean Mar 2017 #40
former9thward Mar 2017 #28
bekkilyn Mar 2017 #30
former9thward Mar 2017 #47
bekkilyn Mar 2017 #48
forgotmylogin Mar 2017 #46
triron Mar 2017 #8
onenote Mar 2017 #9
triron Mar 2017 #10
Orrex Mar 2017 #11
triron Mar 2017 #12
Orrex Mar 2017 #14
triron Mar 2017 #15
Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #23
forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #34
onenote Mar 2017 #35
forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #36
onenote Mar 2017 #39
Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #43
ProudLib72 Mar 2017 #17
truebluegreen Mar 2017 #18
cwydro Mar 2017 #31
NurseJackie Mar 2017 #19
iluvtennis Mar 2017 #22
Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #24
ck4829 Mar 2017 #25
caroldansen Mar 2017 #26
caroldansen Mar 2017 #27
Mr. Ected Mar 2017 #29
BSdetect Mar 2017 #45
GWC58 Mar 2017 #32
sl8 Mar 2017 #33
Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2017 #37
grantcart Mar 2017 #38
HeartachesNhangovers Mar 2017 #41
triron Mar 2017 #44

Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:04 PM

1. I'd like that, though it's not likely.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:08 PM

2. There is no constitutional mechanism

to undo or redo a presidential election, and I doubt very much that Hillary would be on board for any kind of "arranged" presidency anyway.

Elections have consequences. Like in 2000, this is an especially painful lesson.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:19 PM

4. I agree

but what will happen if the Repukes fail to remove a proven traitor from office?

What happens when he imposes martial law nationwide to root out those violent illegals and the dissidents who dared to protest against him?

What is the constitutional remedy then?

What about just simple harassment, demands for "papers" just for traveling by car between the states... more voter suppression?

The framers never imagined that not only the President would be a traitor, but he would he the head of a party of traitors that control the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and, of course, the Presidency.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:52 PM

6. Stolen elections should have consequences too

Our democracy was subverted and destroyed. There is no longer a constitution.

Make them walk the plank. Hang them high. Pants them and boot them in the rear. If rules no longer apply, then the punishment and disgrace they experience should be extreme.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:41 AM

13. Exactly, steal an election, rot in jail.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:00 AM

7. except it was a scam.

this is an exceptional circumstance. Perhaps if it's an illegal coup she would be on board and legitimately

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:10 PM

3. There is no legal way to do that.

 

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:48 PM

5. Ummm, how exactly do you propose this be done?

You do understand there is simply no mechanism for such a thing, yes?

Please think through all of the details before posting something like this.

And I know that there has been at least one other OP about declaring the election null and void, or having a do-over, and it's disheartening to see this degree of ignorance here on DU.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:48 AM

16. I get your point...

But if you're stranded on a desert island and that airplane pillow tag is bugging you, are you gonna remain bound by upholstery law that says DO NOT REMOVE THIS TAG or are you going to get by however you can?

Does the law apply after they've torn it all down, soaked it in gasoline, and set it ablaze?

The Constitution is amendable; the Forefathers set it up that way. They knew shit would come down the pipe they hadn't planned for.

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:12 AM

20. There really is a difference between being stranded on a desert island and removing a stupid pillow

tag, and undoing an election.

If you honestly think the two are comparable, then we haven't a common point of discussion.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:43 AM

21. Okay Poindexter.

I was drawing a parallel by reduction. I said I understood your point.

Laws are updated and modified and changed. 45 certainly has no problem with doing so where it suits him.

I was pointing out that even though there isn't precedent, that it would be possible to set a precedent legally. There are many laws that had to evolve when new situations crop up. Probably when the first cars came out, there was no precedent for a 55mph speed limit because model Ts probably didn't push 30. Just because there is no precedent in no way disallows one from being set. New precedent is set in legal decisions all the time.

While I agree the chances of this are low, my speculation wasn't intended to cause you to throw down your clipboard and leave the room just because you don't agree.

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 11:56 AM

42. I actually like that image: me throwing down my clipboard and leaving the room.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 11:10 AM

40. There was a war crime committed to install a treasonous bastard. That isn't an "election".

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:53 AM

28. There is no "upholstery law".

I am always amazed at the number of people who think there is an actual law about pillow tags that applies to people who buy them.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 08:01 AM

30. Wouldn't the airline in this case own the pillow? (nt)

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Response to bekkilyn (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 06:05 PM

47. It matters not who owns the pillow.

They bought it and they or anyone else can do what they want with it. The tag applies to retailers who sell the product.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #47)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:05 PM

48. Unless!

The desert island belongs to a country where pillow tags apply to everyone!

(And yes, I'm being even sillier now, but I've already forgotten what the actual thread topic was about! And pillow tags are probably more fun anyway. )

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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 04:22 PM

46. Yes, I'm aware.

I was having fun with the concept.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:02 AM

8. Thanks for this post. Stay creative and have courage.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:05 AM

9. Could you get me a pony while you're at it?

Magical thinking is a waste of time better spent thinking about how we can elect more Democrats and get them to hang tough against the repubs.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:22 AM

10. kick for visibility

hang in there.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:26 AM

11. It won't happen, but if it did...

Republicans would forever after be very strongly motivated to declare every Democratic presidency null and void.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:31 AM

12. false equivalence

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Response to triron (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:43 AM

14. Vapid objection

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:45 AM

15. If the election was a scam perhaps there is a legal mechanism?

No precedent for this except international.

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Response to triron (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:27 AM

23. There is a legal process in place for removal of the President and succession

It doesn't matter if the principals are removed for misconduct, pass away naturally, die in an attack, etc. The law provides for an orderly process, and nowhere in that lawful process is the installment of a person from outside the chain of succession. That would truly be Banana Republic territory.

Here's how it goes if Pence and Trump both fall.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/19

Trump, and anyone else around him who knew of his collusion with Russia must be removed, and we must remain mobilized and energized to weaken and destroy whoever slithers in to take his place.

While we work to help fell Trump, our eyes also need to be focused finely on mid-terms, and taking back the Senate and the House - and then on 2020.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:17 AM

34. You could definitely "appoint" HRC or any other Democrat within the confines of the law.

 

You just have to do it in a certain order in order to conform with the 25th Amendment.

Let's say the FBI probe finds out that the entire GOP leadership, from Reince to Ryan to Hatch was complicit in treason, and there's enough hard evidence to make it stick. Trump and Pence get this deal: Resign or face impeachment, removal and conviction for treason, and as part of that deal, we get a defacto "invalidation" of the stolen election. So it goes like this:

Pence resigns > Trump appoints HRC as VP > Congress confirms > Trump resigns > HRC appoints Kaine (or whoever really) > HRC fires all of Trump's cabinet picks.

This is an extreme long shot (basically you don't just need smoking gun evidence, you need .50 cal on fire evidence to get the GOP to cave like this) but this is something that can actually happen in reality, not something like "invalidate the election".

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:20 AM

35. Magical thinking.

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Response to onenote (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:26 AM

36. It's extremely, extremely unlikely like I said.

 

But it's a possibility that exists within the legal reality of the American Constitution. Basically if it escalates to the point where the choices are "get a Democratic President" or "total party annihilation" then suddenly taking a deal like that seems within the realm of conception.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 11:07 AM

39. What is theoretically possible and what is within the "realm of conception" are different things

It is theoretically possible the Democrats in Congress will all band together to vote for the repeal of Social Security. It is not remotely within the realm of conception that they would do so.

So too with the "extremely extremely unlikely" scenario you postulate. Let's imagine that there was evidence that Trump, Pence, Ryan and Hatch were somehow complicit in something unlawful relating to the election. There are a number of conceivable scenarios as to how that might play out -- scenarios that are far more conceivable than the one you suggest and that push your concept to the outer boundaries of the realm of conception or beyond.

Put another way, removing Ryan and Hatch from their positions in the line of succession, and replacing them, requires only a majority vote (removing them from Congress requires a 2/3 vote). Why wouldn't the republicans simply vote for a replacement from their own ranks, who would then succeed to the presidency upon the resignation of Trump and Pence? What leverage do the Democrats have to force a convoluted game of musical chairs to install Clinton (or any other Democrat for that matter) in the White House? The threat of impeachment? As noted, that could be avoided by Trump and Pence resigning, which is part of your proposal. The threat of prosecution? The new president could and would pardon them and the Democrats would be unable to stop it. If the situation is so bad that even Republicans feel that Trump and Pence and Ryan and Hatch have to go, they wouldn't participate in a charade that let's them avoid prosecution -- they'd let the new president, presumably there as a caretaker until Cruz/Rubio/blah blah blah runs in 2020.

So, yes, magical thinking.



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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:48 PM

43. No. It is not.

It does not exist as a legal reality. There is no legal mechanism for what you describe, at all. It is indeed, magical thinking. Not "extremely unlikely;" but non-existent.

Pence resigns and Trump makes HRC VP? Oh my god.

We have to stay grounded in reality and FIGHT based on the very real situation before us. That means not dreaming up fairy-tale solutions but actually putting forth the efforts that matter to affect real ones. Calling our representatives, showing up to town halls and other protests, getting involved at the local level, volunteering. Wishful thinking is a waste of time and emotional energy, and we need every bit of that energy for what lies ahead.


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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:00 AM

17. Let them have an illegitimate president for 4 years

Let them not be able to pass a damned thing because they are so afraid of being shot for it. Let every town hall erupt into cries of "Illegitimate". Let them be forever branded as the party of Russia.

Or lock him up. Whichever way works for me.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:09 AM

18. Magical thinking.

 

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 08:04 AM

31. A lot of that around here lately.

We need to deal in reality.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:10 AM

19. That would be lovely. But constitutionally, it cannot happen.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:03 AM

22. And we never had this type of interference in our elections from an enemy of our nation before..

...maybe it time to consider amendments/mods to the constitution to address this situation.

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Response to iluvtennis (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:43 AM

24. Sure. All you need is a super-majority in both houses or ratification by 2/3 of the states.

No problem.

We need to deal in reality, and get the work done on the ground - expand our efforts at voter registration, educate, advocate, and show up. When Trump is impeached we need to ensure whatever slithers in behind him is defeated soundly. We need to give our very last to make sure the mid-terms see our return in the House and Senate.

Reality-based expectations and goals are much more productive and rewarding.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:32 AM

25. This "election" will be seen as a joke

We have to start somewhere.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:43 AM

26. Everything can have a precedent. A first time. Keep believing.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:45 AM

27. Everything can have a precedent. A first time. Keep believing.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:59 AM

29. As much as Republicans detest "judicial activists"

Wouldn't it be sweet if the Supreme Court, having heard evidence of treason, espionage, racketeering and obstruction of justice by the Republican Party in Election 2016, would overturn the election and install HRC as President?

Yes, a pipe dream, but nothing more fantastic than the 2000 decision handing Junior the presidency.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:13 PM

45. We cannot be bound by an outdated impeachment process.

There must be justice above all.

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 08:41 AM

32. With this Congress? Supreme Court?

Yeah, that would go over like a lead balloon!

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 08:50 AM

33. Is Michael Scott available?

He's good at declaring stuff, e.g.:

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:28 AM

37. Both me and my magical unicorn would love to see that happen.

Sadly, it ain't happening.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:45 AM

38. How about one of the guys from Marvel comics?

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 11:14 AM

41. I hereby declare the last election null and void.

I further appoint HRC as POTUS. Done before breakfast!

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Response to BSdetect (Original post)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:02 PM

44. knr

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