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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJosh Marshall on gravity of Russia probe that 'will just tear a hapless goober like Nunes to pieces'
Josh Marshall? @joshtpm 8h8 hours agomy latest >>> Thoughts on the Nunes debacle & What the FBI may not be able or willing to share http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-gravity-is-strong-part-2 via @TPM
The Gravity Is Strong, Part #2
{snip}
____ Rather than searching for the single unifying piece of evidence, the smoking gun, as it were, it is better for us to start with the story we already know and simply keep pulling on the numerous dangling threads that story puts in front of us. In recent weeks, I've written a series of posts, which are in the majority of cases built on public records and weaving together the reporting of others. The picture they paint has a few critical elements. The first is that Trump built his 'second act', starting in the first years of this century, on a free flow of money from the former Soviet Union. Numerous Trump business ventures partnered with people tied to the Russian or post-Soviet criminal underworld. This pattern is so widespread and consistent that it is a hugely important story in itself, though it tends to get overshadowed by the hunt for ties to President Vladimir Putin. Many of these ventures bear key hallmarks of money laundering. The most straightforward explanation is that Trump needed capital but had ruined his access to legitimate lenders and scared off most sensible investors. He was a perfect match for overseas money, specifically post-Soviet money, which needed to get out of its countries of origin and into the safety of the US, particularly US real estate. This was money you couldn't ask a lot of questions about; and Trump was happy not to ask.
{snip}
Step back and consider this. The Director of the FBI has now confirmed publicly that there is an on-going counter-intelligence investigation probing whether close advisors and associates of the President colluded with a hostile foreign power to help elect the President. The jarring and disorienting effects of Trump's two months' presidency, makes it hard for us to process just what a stunning revelation that is. This is a matter of sufficient gravity that it is hardly sufficient to say that this will be examined deep in the national security apparatus out of the public eye for months or maybe years. We've been told something all but unbelievable is happening. But we can't know really anything about it. The deeply classified, secretive nature of these investigations is a sufficient explanation for all that. But perhaps there's more to it. Remember, it's not just what's been discussed in open session. Top members of Congress have also pressed the FBI's apparent reluctance to share all of what it knows in closed sessions.
The key point in my mind is that for the reasons I explained here, the FBI and likely the CIA knew quite a lot about Trump's ties to the post-Soviet criminal underworld and reliance on Russian, Ukrainian and Kazakhstani money of dubious origins years before he ran for President. What role did that knowledge play, what uses was it put to, once those multiple red flags triggered a formal counter-intelligence investigation late last July? Indeed, just what is known about these ties and business relationships? Most all of what we know comes from marginal details from public records and the occasional lawsuit where a lot of beans get spilled. I'd figure we know 5% or maybe 10% of the story. The rest remains hidden. Criminal prosecutions and counter-intelligence secrets are important. But nothing is more important than allowing the public to know who the President is, what he's done and what's driving his actions.
Whatever is there will take a firm hand to uncover. Like the violent gravitational forces around a black hole, the force of this story will just tear a hapless goober like Nunes to pieces.
read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-gravity-is-strong-part-2
related:
The Gravity Is Strong (pt 1)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-gravity-is-strong
kentuck
(111,111 posts)"Numerous Trump business ventures partnered with people tied to the Russian or post-Soviet criminal underworld. This pattern is so widespread and consistent that it is a hugely important story in itself, though it tends to get overshadowed by the hunt for ties to President Vladimir Putin."
...it's probably what's driving the investigation into Trump and associates.
I hope their investigation into Trump doesn't get sidelined or obscured by their probes of Russian mobsters.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)...and greed, pushed by business interests around the globe, moreso than a relationship with Putin.
bigtree
(86,020 posts)...because that's where our national policy becomes relevant to these relationships between Americans associated with Trump and Russian bankers and the like.
At the same time that we're working to impose sanctions on Russia, on Putin, for Crimea and hacking, Trump and associates are working to enrich themselves with Russian money, ostensibly to influence U.S. policy in favor of Russia.
Remember, none of these Russian business ventures are disassociated from Putin.
Link to tweet
kentuck
(111,111 posts)But Trump is a gangster in his own right, without the imprimatur of Vladimir. Although I would agree that Trump needs Russian money and that is why he cannot criticize Putin. He wants to help Putin whenever he gets the opportunity, as far as the sanctions go.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,075 posts)It would explain why Ryan had such an awkward stance during the election where he condemned tRump's statements while maintaining a quasi-endorsement. He was hungry for the power to have a Republicon President sign his bills.
As to tRump, he's been laundering Russian money for decades, even in the 90s. tRump's casinos had a lot of Russian high rollers at a time when they lost money during a boom when most casinos made gobs of money.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)Adam Schiff is the intellectual hero of this investigation - hopefully he can do something on his end to get Nunes out of the way - recusal or removal - or get a special prosecutor involved.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)he has really been the hero in this. Never wavering!
Paladin
(28,287 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,580 posts)I also like the Vonnegut reference.
not fooled
(5,807 posts)Gowdy, Chaffetz and their ilk. Unsophisticated intellectual lightweights promoted to positions of undeserved power because of their teabagger nuttiness, not qualifications.
Karma, baby--after they abused their positions to harass Secretary Clinton and buy cheap political cred with their moronic, deluded followers, they deserve every bit of unpleasantness coming their way.
DeminPennswoods
(15,299 posts)A perfect description.
gordianot
(15,259 posts)Nor did a few data intercepts in the last two years alone show that Trump and his businesses were crooked. The IRS is not in the dark regarding tax evasion. Intelligence agencies have crossed paths many times with Trump. Both Democrats and Republicans knew Trump was sick.
Why was this worthless piece of shit allowed to run for President? No it is not going to be OK who knows what worse is out there waiting for a turn?
Cosmocat
(14,589 posts)He LONG ago could not get money in the US for his boon doggles, and as his idiot son related several years ago, they are propped up by russian money.
He has russian mobsters housed all over his "tower."
He held the Mrs Universe pagent over there a couple years ago.
A russian billionare put a cool 40 million in his pocket on a flip of a property he couldn't unload in Florida several years ago.
Manefort - nuff said.
Some Russian billionaire's plane and his coincidentally ended up next to each other on airfields all last fall.
There was a computer in his tower on a direct line with a computer for a bank in Russia.
Christ, he has to get an eastern block mail order bride.
It just never ends.
AND, this is all shit that was common knowledge on November 8th.
gordianot
(15,259 posts)Not being able to stand many conversations with him we did not talk (this was pre Fox news the great divider of families). One conversation we had was in regards to Donald Trump the Russian mafia commie Democratic Clinton loving crook his company signed a contract with in New York. I quote "Anyone stupid enough to do business with Donald Trump deserves what they get." Trump is well known and understood.
Wonder what he would say about Republican Clinton hating Russia loving Trump?
Cosmocat
(14,589 posts)would say now vs what they would have said the second before the jackass came down the escalator 2 years ago, most likely.
Side note.
My mom was a JFK democrat, hated Reagan with a passion and was involved loosely with some country democratic elected officials.
She worked out of home and got really into CNN when it got big. I would stop by and during the late 90s noticed she started switching to Faux. Didn't think much about it until the 2004 POTUS when I took her out to Wendy's for lunch.
We started talking politics and she got really angry and said how embarrassing Howard Dean was (after the "scream" . My heart dropped because I knew they had gotten her. Dean was her kind of guy.
She died later in the 2000s, and was still liberal in a lot of ways, but Faux had increasingly gotten into her.
gordianot
(15,259 posts)The elderly R's (I know) assume Trump reflects the Russian xenophobia they grew up with after all these people were responsible for making you crawl under your desk. Linking Trump to Russia is a Democratic lie and have been told this more than once. In an effort to understand these people I read National Enquirer in the store render it unreadable and stuff it back on the rack. You should know Trump is responsible for exposing Russian influence which is in a way true.
Cosmocat
(14,589 posts)Benghazi (which occurred a dozen times under W) is the greatest scandal in our country's history, with Bill's blow job a close second.
Iran Contra, Iraq and the 45/republican party's current shit fest - pish posh.
What is going on now is too brazen and absurd for most of the Rs I bump into to completely deny it, but they just babble about Hillary giving all of our nuclear material or russia or some thing I can't even understand about Bill, in their usual bullshit of saying what is happening is perfectly fine because a D had a shot of vodka once thing.
gordianot
(15,259 posts)Trump is full out wallowing in the pig sty with the pig shit, garbage and filth. Farm analogies work where I live.
Cosmocat
(14,589 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)...you spelled 'judgment' wrong.
Other than that...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)what are the options for Schiff and the other Democrats? I think just putting continued public pressure on Nunes and others in Congress? Anything else?
DeminPennswoods
(15,299 posts)to get info out. I think it's sort of informational, not a formal hearing.
mcar
(42,474 posts)But they can't stop it.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,075 posts)colbertforpresident
(241 posts)I fully understand why the FBI has withheld information from the committees. They are afraid that moles like Nunes will blow the investigations by reporting back to Trump.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)The FBI, CIA have known about Trump/Russia ties for a long time, and even so they let him run for president.
The FBI, CIA seem to have enough information to stop Trump and his administration, but they choose to continue investigating while Trump and repubs continue to destroy the country...how does any of this make sense?
An investigation cannot be so important that cons/crooks are allowed to dismantle, destroy the country. Either the FBI has its hands dirty as well, or there is something that I just cannot understand. When does the FBI stop investigating and start prosecuting? when it is too late?
WTF?
brer cat
(24,662 posts)vlyons
(10,252 posts)Access to easy money. Blood money. Dirty money in need of a laundry. Colluding with the Russians to change US policy to suit criminal Russian oligarchs to make even more dirty money came along later as a side effect of hiding his dirty money crimes. Playing ignorant to the treason of Flynn, Manafort, Stone, et al is bullshit. Trump selected these people PRECISELY because he wanted their connections to dirty money. And now all the US ReThuglican politicians who have jumped on the Trump bullet train to more easy dirty money have done so to protect their past and future pursuit of easy filthy money.
I want to say something else here. And it is that we, the American people, have brought this plague upon ourselves. I don't mean we DUers, who struggle to elect politicians of integrity. Rather, I mean all those Republican and Trump voters, who were duped by con man Trump, and the Republican lies and distractions about capitalism is the savior of the world, trickle down economics is good for us, gov is the problem, destroying the social safety net will give us freedom, raising minimum wage will destroy jobs. And on and on and on with all the other ReThuglican lies crafted to keeping us trapped in building giant pyramids for the 1%ers.
And what is at the heart of this ReThuglican evil? It is the LOVE of money. Not money itself, but the LOVE of money. Valueing the relentless greedy acquisition of money is NOT a higher value than human beings. You and I are more than just mere profit centers. We all do better, when we ALL do better. Please think about and meditate on that.
C_U_L8R
(45,040 posts)Others suggest it's his craven desire to get back at Obama (who utterly humiliated the Donald).
Perhaps what truly drives Trump is that the only way he can avoid a long prison term (or worse) is to seize all the dictatorial power he can, as fast as he can.
And useful idiots like Nunes are happy to come along for the ride.