HOW BERNIE SANDERS IDEAS ARE WINNING IN THE TRUMP ERA

[FDRsGhost]

Go Bernie! Take it to Trump and kick some ass! Keep on keeping on brother!

HOW BERNIE SANDERS’ IDEAS ARE WINNING IN THE TRUMP ERA



http://www.newsweek.com/did-bernie-sanders-actually-win-progressive-ideas-575428

[JTFrog]

1. Lol, ok. nt

[randome]

2. Double LOL!

It's embarrassing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[FDRsGhost]

3. It's embarrassing that he is out there fighting for us? Tell us more please

I'd like to hear why it's embarrassing that people are in touch with his ideas and where he stands on the issues. I look forward to your response, thank you.

[randome]

5. Be sure to tell us when Sanders cures cancer by himself, too.

Other than that snark, I'm staying out of this thread for a while. Have fun.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[FDRsGhost]

10. Again, please answer my question

And what is with all the Bernie hate on here? Look, I'm new and I don't get it at all, I simply don't but it seems like there are a select few on here who have nothing better to do than troll anything that's posted about Bernie and trash him. Your comments here are a prime example. I thought it was against the TOS to do so much but perhaps I'm mistaken. You do understand that this is a big turn off to the site for newbies like myself, right?

I'd appreciate an explanation what's up with all the hate because I am not tracking.

[treestar]

28. There is no Bernie hate

but there are some people who seem to over-love him and give him credit for too much - that's the pushback you are getting.

[G_j]

38. lol

Really?? That's pretty funny to anyone who actually reads the threads here.

[treestar]

42. Some of them maybe

But there are plenty like this giving Bernie credit for everything under the sun.

[Orrex]

54. Bernie invented the polio vaccine and refused to patent it.

[treestar]

89. Thanks Bernie!

[G_j]

75. Maybe?

just post an OP with Sanders in the subject line. That's all it takes. Oh well, the damage is done, a lot of old timers no longer bother.

[Adrahil]

19. The issue is that these are not Bernie's ideas....

He didn't invent them. He merely supports them. Bernie did not invent progressive politics. We do NOT need a cult of personality.

[FDRsGhost]

24. Where has he said he invented anything?

Sure he supports them and that's what it's all about, I don't see him as a cult of personality but a fighter and he has been for a long time. he's been talking the talk and walking the walk for ages and has been constant in his message.

That's valuable to the party IMHO. It's not a bad thing that he's the most popular politician in America and American's see his as trustworthy.

Honestly, does this stuff have to do with bent up frustration from the primaries because I'm thinking it might.

[JTFrog]

27. "because I'm thinking it might"

Thank you for admitting that too!

As others have said, it's all rather transparent.

[FDRsGhost]

32. Okay....obviously I am missing something here.

Oh well.

[cwydro]

117. Thank you.

As you point out out, it's very transparent.

And tiresome.

[Adrahil]

40. I agree.... your pent up frustrations are coming it.

Also, read the title of your OP. "Bernie Sanders Ideas." That's how I might have gotten that impression.

[FDRsGhost]

68. I have no pent up frustrations. My title was copy pasted

from original title.

It seems many have some pent frustrations though about Bernie. Any thread about Bernie and out come the haters

[LanternWaste]

62. I'm applying your sentiment to your OP as well.

"does this stuff have to do with bent up frustration from the primaries because I'm thinking it might..."

I'm applying your sentiment to your OP as well.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[kstewart33]

66. Waiting for Bernie to join the Democratic Party.

Until then, he is an outsider who continues to take a lot of shots at the Democratic Party.

That's not helpful especially given our critical need to win the House in 2018.

[FDRsGhost]

67. As Bernie has already said and I reiterated

He isn't going to join the Democratic party. He was elected by the people of Vermont as an Indy.

Bernie takes pot shots at the party and so do many others as others have clearly shown in other threads. The fact of the matter is this; no matter what Bernie does people will continue to voice their anger at him because of left over frustration from the primaries. That's what this is about.

[Fla Dem]

70. Glad to see he has priciples now.

[FDRsGhost]

71. lol right because Bernie never had principles previously

[kstewart33]

72. If he doesn't join, that's his prerogative.

However, I doubt that the party will ever again allow Bernie to run for anything as a Democrat. As you recognize, too many Democrats believe that he was a factor in Clinton's defeat.

Many others see Bernie as a threat to the Dem's chances of winning the House in 2018. Both points factor into the party's lack of love for Bernie, as you're witnessing on this thread.

He needs a party base to establish a real movement. That's not possible and so he will remain a player but not someone who will make a real difference in politics.

[FDRsGhost]

125. Never say never

I don't think any of us expected Bernie to get a leadership position in the party yet here we are! Of course that was a very smart move by Schumer knowing how popular he is and how Bernie is able to motivate people to get out and vote. People may say "he helped Hillary lose" but IMHO Obama was a lot more harsh on Hillary in the 2008 primaries than Bernie ever was. Primaries are fights, they can get very nasty at times and they can be downright mean. It's not a bake sale after all.

The party may have a lack of love for Bernie but the party also loves him. I see it as a love/hate relationship and where I think the big gap lies is between those who are younger voters vs. those who are not. There's a big division there and yes we NEED both in order to win elections. One area where Bernie is very strong is with indy voters and considering they are now 46% of the electorate, we can't win without them. He's the guy to bring them in.

Bernie has a "real movement" as it is now. If anything; Bernie's movement is massive. Think of it, before the election he had a 2% name recognition and he challenged the most famous woman in the world for the presidency. Stadiums seating 10s of thousands were filled and lines to see him stretched miles. He brought more young voters out to vote in the primaries than anybody else in history & he's the most popular politician in America. This is the very definition of a "movement".

[synergie]

109. He's also said the exact opposite, and his long time campaign manager reiterated

"So of course I am a Democrat and running for the Democratic nomination." (Said in a Democratic Town Hall hosted by Anderson Cooper)

Sanders, a long-time Independent, declared himself a Democrat while filing on Thursday.

Sanders says he’ll run as a Democrat in future elections.

He says, “I am running as a Democrat obviously, I am a Democrat now.”

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2015/11/05/sanders-declares-democrat-nh-primary/75242938/
(The Burlington Free Press is the hometown newspaper of Burlington, VT. that the people of Vermont presumably read.)

and reiterated:

Sen. Bernie Sanders' (I-VT) campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said on Wednesday that the senator will remain a Democrat after the 2016 presidential election.

Weaver was asked on Bloomberg News' "With All Due Respect" whether Sanders would still be a Democrat even if he lost the presidential nomination.

"Well, he is a Democrat. He’s said he’s a Democrat, and he’s gonna be supporting the Democratic nominee, whoever that is," Weaver responded.

And when asked of Sanders was now a "Democrat for life," Weaver said, "Yes, he is."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bernie-sanders-remain-democrat?utm_content=buffera162d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Whom are we to believe?

Note to Jury: I"m not fighting the primaries, I'm merely countering the poster, who states that he's reiterating something Bernie said, by quoting what he actually said, with citations.

[cwydro]

121. Funny. I remember him joining a while back...

Kind of short lived though...

[AgadorSparticus]

141. Mybe it's b/c threads like this make it look like he is the only progressive in the party.

....who hold these views. It is a slam to the other progressives wjo have tge same views but for some reason, Bernie's is more important.

[Demsrule86]

52. I deleted my posts...This is a OP intended to cause division. That is all.

Trashing....

[R B Garr]

96. Yup, every ghost post is about what should be

allowed here and what he/she thinks of other posters ---as if that was the real reason for the thread. Hmmm.

[nikibatts]

123. Is this another Russian bot?

[FDRsGhost]

152. Yes! You found me out! I'm a Russian bot /eyeroll

[mountain grammy]

94. Embarrassing? How so?

[obnoxiousdrunk]

50. +1 .. n/t

[FSogol]

4. LOL, you Better Believe It!

[FDRsGhost]

7. Okay, what is up with the Bernie hate on this site?

Someone give me a clue please. I don't get it. Why are you all hating on the guy who is out there kicking ass like crazy? Clue me in because I must be missing something here. Lots of weirdness happening.

[FSogol]

9. No one on this site hates Sen Sanders, but we do hate those who try to divide us.

[FDRsGhost]

11. Posting an article about Bernie is dividing you?

What in the world...yup, I'm lost.

[JTFrog]

13. Lol, ok. nt

[FDRsGhost]

16. Must be a clique thing I guess

[JTFrog]

17. Well thanks for admitting that!

[LanternWaste]

63. Or an Obvious Agenda thing as well

Or an Obvious Agenda thing as well, regardless of your guesses...

[FSogol]

20. I agree. You are lost. n/t

[FDRsGhost]

25. I am

I don't get the whole "Bernie bad" thing. Oh well.

[emulatorloo]

110. Nobody said "Bernie bad" except you.

[FDRsGhost]

126. Have you read the responses?

Apparently in the eyes of many, Bernie is the enemy who's the bad guy.
If that's the case, I don't ever want him to be the "good guy"

[treestar]

30. Could be

this one is OK as it does not take any shots at other Democrats.

[JTFrog]

12. + a billion! nt

[seaglass]

22. Not fawning equals hate? This OP is way over the top - do you seriously believe

that climate change is Bernie's idea? That people would not know what climate change is if not for Bernie? Completely ridiculous.

[FDRsGhost]

31. Where did Bernie say climate change was his idea?

I don't see anything in the article which is over the top, sorry. Point to something specific perhaps?

[seaglass]

36. I don't believe Bernie said anything in the article clip. The author did. Read the headline and

the first 4 sentences again.

[synergie]

108. That seems to be the constant refrain in the past few days.

[nini]

37. What's up with a newbie copping the 'tude you are?

You say you are new here - maybe you should get a feel for things before you assume or judge. There's plenty of history you can pilfer through here to see why you're getting the response you are.

[FDRsGhost]

57. lol what attitude

Why is posting an article about Bernie a bad thing? Look at the responses I got here for instance. Odd that on a site for Democrats it receives that level of trolling but ok

[obamanut2012]

44. Just stop

[Demsrule86]

46. We don't like division and clickbait posts...how many posts like this

have your put up?

[FSogol]

47. In this incarnation?

[Demsrule86]

93. Very good point...there is an air of familiarity.

[cwydro]

124. My thought too.

Familiar.

[FDRsGhost]

59. It's click bait? Um no

I copied and pasted the headline verbatim. Some of you sure have a chip on your shoulder it would seem. How many posts havbe I put up? I've posted I think 2 or 3 posts since I joined I think. Why?

[Demsrule86]

92. It is divisive and you read the posts so you know that...you have a reason for this I suppose, but

I can't see it.

[Bayard]

56. I don't get it either

We need more PEOPLE like Bernie pushing for universal healthcare, battling climate change, and other issues near and dear to our hearts on every forum and news show out there. He never stopped doing that after the primary. Hillary went into hiding after the election. Flame away.

[Duppers]

65. Totally agree with you!

Hillary is back tho:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028866452

[valar]

77. LOL and if she came out right after election and commented

she would of been told to go away just like Chelsea is by the same ones who are saying where is Hillary.

[FDRsGhost]

69. Bernie didn't get Trump elected. C'mon.

Why is this sort of crap even allowed on here.

[JTFrog]

29. Yep. A new model every three or four months, lol. nt

[Me.]

53. Lately

There's been one every few minutes......

[DURHAM D]

49. Thanks.

Sometimes I forgot who is who.

[LongTomH]

6. Proud to be first to K&R for Bernie

[FDRsGhost]

14. Thanks!

[stonecutter357]

8. lol.

[MineralMan]

15. Bernie's a great guy and a fine Senator.

It's nice that Newsweek had good things to say about him.

But we knew that, already, I think. Is he running for something?

[FDRsGhost]

18. Yup he is running for something actually

This

[MineralMan]

21. I'm not quite sure what that is depicting.

It's clearly not what I was talking about, though.

[FDRsGhost]

26. You asked if he was running for something

He's running for the train lol

[MineralMan]

33. LOL, indeed.

I'm just rolling on the floor about this thread, for sure. Here's the thing: Everyone here likes Bernie Sanders. Like all of the Democratic members of the Senate, he's working to help prevent Trump from destroying the country. That's a very good thing.

We know that. We appreciate his hard work and hope he continues to work with the Democratic caucus. If he runs for the Senate again in 2018, we'll be rooting for him to win.

However, he's just one Senator. He can't defeat Trump single-handedly, nor is he any more powerful than the individual Democrats in the Senate.

Good for Bernie! Nobody here hates Bernie. We never have. He ran a valiant primary race for the presidential nomination. Democratic voters chose Hillary Clinton, instead, and that's all history now.

Personally, I'm focused on the Senate Intelligence Committee right now. Bernie's not on that committee, and that's where the action is at the moment in the Senate. What do you think of the Democrats on that committee?

[FDRsGhost]

34. I don't know, it just seems weird to me

and thank you very much for the cordial response, it is appreciated. Whenever someone brings up Bernie it seems there's a very select few who rush in with the hate and I guess I must have missed something. Hmph.

Anyways, as far as SIC goes; Adam Schiff knows what's up. His last name means "ship" in German and I am thinking he should be given the nickname of "Destroyer" heh...

I love what he's doing. Did you see this? It floated under the radar yesterday, I meant to post in breaking news but got too busy

FBI arrests ten people in New York City with alleged ties to Donald Trump and Russian mafia
http://www.palmerreport.com/news/fbi-arrests-ten-people-in-new-york-city-with-alleged-ties-to-donald-trump-and-russian-mafia/2090/

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. It's like a pep talk MM. It's nice if the main stream media discusses progressive trends & figures

One thing I love about DU is how the forum threads are laid out with such a clear menu choice. We can click on whatever floats our boats at that moment, and ignore anything hat adds nothing to where we are at.

I'm focused on the Senate Intelligence Committee too right now. But a few minutes spent chatting here with you takes nothing away from that. The more leading voices for our side that get elevated in the public mind by the media in a positive fashion the better we are off. ALL of them will be out campaigning in 2018 to retake Congress. The more visibility each has the better. Each have elements of the public that they can reach better than most can - a full court press is our best bet.

[pangaia]

55. Good post, as usual.

The only thing I would disagree with is, "...Everyone here likes Bernie Sanders.."

[LexVegas]

23. Transparent. nt

[Dem2]

35. Trump Era?

trash thread

[HoneyBadger]

43. TPP?

TPP was Bernie's number one issue

[WiffenPoof]

48. Let The Bernie Bashing Begin. NT

[Demsrule86]

51. This OP has posted a number of divisive posts...

Don't do it folks

[FDRsGhost]

58. Where have I posted anything that is divisive? Jeez...

[Demsrule86]

95. You read your own threads... I presume...try reading the replies and tell me

your post has not caused division...I don't want Trump to win again by dividing the Democratic Party. I hope Bernie does great things as part of the Democratic effort.

[FDRsGhost]

97. The replies posted to me? Like....

"Bernie helped Trump win"?
Or "Bernie isn't a Democrat"?
Or "Glad to see Bernie has principles now"?

I'm not the one who seems to have a problem with things but oh well.

[R B Garr]

99. You are more interested in discussing other DUers

than the article you posted.

[FDRsGhost]

100. And yet the insults continue :)

You're quite the welcoming bunch aren't you? If you notice, I replied to quite a few folks. All I got really was a bunch of disparaging remarks. I asked for conversation and all I got was "Bernie blah blah bad man blah blah!" I tried.

[R B Garr]

101. Don't mistake astuteness for insults. nt

[FDRsGhost]

102. If it walks like a duck...

[R B Garr]

103. That goes both ways....

[emulatorloo]

111. Nobody said "Bernie bad man" except you.

As Mineral Man said most everybody here likes Bernie.

You seem to want to put words in other people's mouths in order to pick a fight?

[LanternWaste]

64. No more and no less than the righteous cries of oppression from self-styled flagellants.

No more and no less than the righteous cries of oppression from self-styled flagellants.

[Duppers]

61. For some, only some, on this site posting anything

positive about Bernie is "dividing us." Ignore them -to do that, click on their handle and follow to the ignore feature. I'm adding to my long list.

These folks have an obvious ingrained bias against anything Bernie and seem to somewhat blame him for Hillary's loss. Indeed there were some Bernie supporters who said they'd never vote for HRC not matter what. Bernie did NOT advocate they do that.
But the posters here laughing at you, imo, believe lies about Bernie much like Trump's supporters do. And they are MOST suspicious of your motives, call it paranoid if you like.


I supported Bernie but voted for Hillary.

[MuseRider]

79. Good advice.

I hate to say it but in good faith I got rid of my very long ignore list after the primary was over. I hated that I even had one. Tomorrow I started a new one. Some here do not like Bernie and that is fine, but those who HATE him (oh no they don't, yes they do, no they don't) are pretty much the same people who have been doing this since the primary. Maybe more Hillary headlines would make them less apt to crap on Bernie threads? Whatever, I started my list again. I am sick of wasting time over inane tantrums.

[FDRsGhost]

83. Hey thanks, I didn't realize there was an ignore feature

I will happily use it. Silence is the best method at times XD

I've seen that mentioned a couple times now where it's Bernie fault Hillary lost. I don't understand that at train of thought at all but to each their own. Not my problem some are mad he's out there fighting.

Paranoia? Maybe they need to get off the internet and enjoy the nice spring weather, wave to a few folks perhaps, who knows. Not sure why they would suspect my motives but some are cynics from the get go and fear "outsiders" I guess. What a happy place this is to new comers lol

[Duppers]

88. No worries. Most here are very good folks.

Your post just alerted the fringe.

Go introduce yourself in the lounge - no doubt you will receive a warm welcome there. Keep it light, dear.

Cheers and welcome aboard!

[George II]

73. Are you a distant relative of GhostofFDR?

[randome]

74. I'm thinking more like theghostofeustacetilley.

That's sort of an "in joke".
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[SticksnStones]

114. Isn't it ThEgHoStofeUsTAcetIlLeY ?

Or something like that?

[randome]

142. I believe it has many forms.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[JTFrog]

139. Lol.

Don't they usually throw a liberal or an unrepentant in there. Seen it manny times before from posters who say they aren't here to divide us.

The redundancy is just absurd.

Do you have anything to add to this article while I go on this little fishing expedition? Looks like he caught a few. Obvious is being obvious.

[FDRsGhost]

85. Nope, no idea who that is

Although someone said "welcome back" to me and then realized I wasn't him.

[ronnie624]

76. He's perhaps the smartest political leader we have,

and definitely the most principled. He understands very well that the status quo will not serve the current and future interests of our civilization. Those who attempt to marginalize him, are abysmally ignorant people.

[Duppers]

78. You go, Ronnie.

Yay. Well said.

[valar]

80. No when he says Dems should be Pro Guns/anti-choice

he's doing that on his own...

[ronnie624]

84. Bernie Sanders:

"The decision about abortion is a decision for a woman and her doctor to make, not the government. I will not allow the right wing to deny women control over their own bodies by forcing clinics to close, extending waiting periods, or inventing other methods that create de facto abortion bans. Roe v. Wade is the law of the land and must remain so,"

[valar]

91. No Link provided not what was said on Morning Joe. N/T

[synergie]

113. You might want to look into what he said on Morning Joe yesterday.

[ronnie624]

144. Quote him.

Very little effort is required.

[JTFrog]

145. Here:

Link to tweet

SCARBOROUGH: Can Dems be open to candidates that aren't rigidly pro choice, rigidly pro gun control?
SANDERS: "The answer, I think, is yes."

Again, why should an outsider make these choices for the Democratic Party? It's asinine.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a9203970/democrats-abortion-economic-justice/

There's No Economic Justice Without Abortion Rights
Some men in the Democratic party seem to think a strong defense of reproductive rights is optional.
By Jill Filipovic
Mar 29, 2017

On Wednesday's Morning Joe, Vermont senator Bernie Sanders went on to talk about working with Donald Trump and the future of the Democratic Party. Host Joe Scarborough brought up the question of abortion and other "social issues" that he said kept white working-class voters voting Republican in states like West Virginia, where they would gain more economic benefits if Democrats were in charge. He suggested that if Democrats want to win white working-class voters in states like Kentucky, they might need to run candidates who reflect the social values of those same white working-class voters - that is, opposing a woman's legal right to decide for herself whether to carry a pregnancy to term. Could Democrats, Scarborough asked Sanders, "be open to candidates that may not be rigidly pro-choice, may not be rigidly pro gun control?" Sanders said yes.

A few days earlier, a column appeared in the New York Times encouraging Democrats to moderate their abortion stance. The writer, a male theology professor, implored Democrats to tamp down their opposition to the Hyde Amendment, which bars federal Medicaid funds for paying for most abortions - making the procedure harder to get for poor women - and treat abortion as "an issue of profound moral and religious concern." Some men, it seems, think moving right on women's rights will allow the party to secure more votes and give it space to move left on economic issues.

This is a terrible strategy. It demonstrates the limits of "economic populism" when the term is defined by only men. And it's exactly why feminists have been so worried about the backlash against "identity politics" and the obsession from both the right and left with white working-class men. In the aftermath of Hillary Clinton's loss, a cottage industry of "I-told-you-so" men has sprung up to lecture feminists and racial justice advocates on how identity isn't enough to win elections. Many of these same political analysts (and men who play political analysts on Twitter) have an outsize reverence for the white working-class man and seem to think that leftist economic policies will get these conservatives voters to change their long-standing right-wing politics -- if Democrats just abandon the "identity politics" of pushing issues related to race and gender. Of course, when "identity politics" are demonized in an effort to appeal to white men, it's women and minorities who lose out.

Abandoning full-throated support for abortion rights in an attempt to secure more votes from moderates is not a new idea. Throughout the 90s and early 2000s, political commentators - almost always white, almost always male - positioned abortion rights as a social issue fueling divisive culture wars. They painted abortion as an issue of life and religious morality, eclipsing women and relegating the moral value of allowing us sovereignty over our own insides to the background of the picture.

[ronnie624]

146. No quote supporting the claim that Sanders is anti-choice. n/t

[JTFrog]

147. Nice try. That claim was never made. Perhaps you will read what you respond to in the future.

Personally I'm appalled that anyone that is supposed to be on our side would say we should bring in anti-choice, pro-gun candidates.

Fuck that. It's pretty clearly explained in the Cosmopolitan article why that is a bad idea if that isn't obvious.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

148. Joe Manchin, a Democrat, has an "A" rating from the NRA

Is pro life and voted to defund Planned Parenthood


... to name one.

[JTFrog]

149. Are you saying that we should get more like him?

I have a feeling he may have a hard time getting reelected. I expect a wave of Democratic women (and progressive) candidates sweeping up across the country for 2018 and 2020.

[ronnie624]

150. The poster implicitly claimed Sanders is anti-choice.

Innuendo is a favored method for attacking him.

[JTFrog]

151. How? "No when he says Dems should be Pro Guns/anti-choice"

Where does that say Bernie is anti-choice? No innuendo there except your own.

Poster said they were talking about what he said on Morning Joe. I know what exactly what they meant.

[synergie]

154. I agree very llittle effort is required, so you should have no problem finding out

what he said, since you've been provided the date, the time and the show it was on.

It's called doing your homework, very little effort is required.

[butdiduvote]

81. I'm honestly just going to have to get over my internet addiction.

There's not a site left on the internet I can go to that isn't overrun with Bernie spam. The internet isn't even an enjoyable place for me anymore. It used to be somewhere I could go to take my mind off of things like my health problems.

[randome]

82. You'll think differently when they issue Bernie Sanders jetpacks and Bernie Sanders acne cures!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[butdiduvote]

86. LMAO

I'm waiting, Bernie. I have some stubborn chin acne that never goes away no matter how old I get.

[nini]

87. Half of them are probalby Russian trolls trying to break up the Dems

Many of the others live in a fantasy world where we can go full left in one giant step. Sad really.. but I'm with you - I'm tired of it all from them.

[valar]

90. Justice Democrats funded by GOP billionaire N/T

[FDRsGhost]

98. Right, I'm a Russian troll

Seriously?

[nini]

106. Funny you were offended

.. or not. it was a blanket statement.

[guillaumeb]

105. Spam is not a healthy diet.

Good luck with your health issues.

[guillaumeb]

104. The responses well illustrate the division of opinion at DU.

Some of us see Sanders as a positive force that is pointing the way for the Democrats to win.

Some focus on his identification as an independent and a socialist.

Some of us point to the unavoidable fact that Democrats have been steadily losing elective positions at every level of government.

Some of us feel that big money can only be overcome with an inspiring message of change.

Welcome to DU, and the debate.

[synergie]

107. And some of us disagree.

Last edited Thu Mar 30, 2017, 05:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Some of us feel attacked for daring to suggest that calling us feeble is not a positive thing.

Some of us are tired of working so hard for so long and having our efforts utterly erased and credit given elsewhere.

Some of us understand that losing elective positions has something to do with people failing to show up, failing to educate themselves and failing to understand how basic processes work, or differentiate between Democrats and Republicans.

Some of us feel that it's not an inspiring message of change to be constantly called names and likened to those we've been fighting tooth and nail on the opposing side.

Some of us were inspired enough already by the many, many leaders who were decried as "establishment" by people who didn't know what that word meant and who use it as an epithet to demean, denigrate and divide.

Some of us feel like the issues that matter to us, that affect our lives, that are life and death for us are jettisoned off as "identity politics" and "single issues" as if they all come second to familiar catch phrases, all the while the opposition works hard to ensure that we have lost the feeling of safety and security and the right to exist in the world without fear.

Some of us feel we're being silenced, though the need for actual debate and discussion has never been more vital, as we learn more and more each day about how and why this divisiveness was introduced and why it's so particularly toxic this cycle.

[SticksnStones]

115. Bravo!

[Trumpocalypse]

118. Well said!!! nt

[JTFrog]

137. Excellent post. Nt

[betsuni]

138. +1000000

[guillaumeb]

143. And your response well illustrates the depth of feeling among those who do not see Sanders

as "the answer".

And you are correct that such labels have been used on both sides.

If people fail to show up, is that the fault of the non-voters, or does the fault lie with the message?

All of your points are also made by Sanders supporters, with equal validity.

[synergie]

156. The problem is that we're not allowed to see Sanders as a politician or

even as a human who might make mistakes sometimes. He has a habit of saying things that are wrong, that are incorrect and that are offensive. But stating that is not allowed, and if one is not silenced, one is certainly attacked, and accused of being a "hater".

Both siderism doesn't work here. There should be room for discussion that doesn't involve name calling, epithets both aggressively aggressive and passively so.

I believe that the message is to blame, especially when the message is "your vote doesn't count because" [insert vague reference to rigging], [insert comments displaying ignorance about who actually runs official State elections], and that both sides are the same, regardless of what either side in question in actually stating, and what the actual facts are.

My points are indeed made by supporters of others, including Trump supporters and Stein supporters, but the validity isn't even remotely equal. Facts are facts and hiding them doesn't change that reality. This is why bothsiderism fails, anyone viewing objectively can see that it's a platitude that is rarely backed up, though the sentiment might be, the actual actions tell a different story.

We should be able to discuss, like adults, what our leaders say and handle respectful criticism of them, with emphasis on the "RESPECTFUL", but some elements have proven they literally cannot be respectful themselves of whom they attack and insist that a lack of adulation in and of itself is "disrespectful".

That's not a "both sides" thing, it's a one side thing, that's after months of most of us coming together and getting over the "sides" nonsense. I'm not saying we were perfect there was some friction, but in the past week or so, that friction has turned to flames by deliberate provocation. There is no place for that here, we have work to do, and quite a lot of actual stuff to be keeping up with, without all this distraction from forces whose sole goal is to divide and distract us.

We've got elements now pushing the "tea party of the left", attacking the party, attacking Democrats, etc. And by attacking, I mean attacking, not criticizing for constructive purposes. Where did they come from and why the sudden uptick in the inflammatory posts? They want us divided, they want us fighting among ourselves, they know how effective we are when we're not fighting the purity wars that broke out in the GOP. There are more of us, and facts, truth, reality and compassion have a "liberal" bias, their only hope is to distract and divide.

[guillaumeb]

157. An interesting and thoughtful response.

As to your last paragraph, there is always a division between factions. It was there during the 1960s and is still there in 2017. How much discussion is allowable before motivation is questioned is an interesting point.

One example is that there are pacifists who are Democrats and there is the just war faction. In the 1960s, the anti-war faction fought with the Johnson faction that pushed for a widening of the war.

Which side represents the real Democratic Party, or do both?

[all american girl]

153. A big THANK YOU to you

[pnwmom]

112. Who are we kidding? They control the Presidency, the House, the Senate, and soon SCOTUS.

And even if DT is ejected from office, we'll be lucky if we get the Senate back; and super lucky if we get the House. They'll still have the Presidency.

Our "ideas" aren't "winning"; they're not going to get anywhere till the Rethugs are out of office.

[FDRsGhost]

119. You are 100% correct.

Trump can be ejected and then who do we have? Pence. IMHO he's even more freighting. And if Pence goes down with Trump then who do we get? Paul Ryan.

We can "resist" all we want but in all honesty NOTHING is going to be changed until we win the house or the senate with a big majority and this is why midterms are so valuable.

I know many are focused on what's happening with Russia but in all honesty, Russia isn't going to help us really truly fight and block legislation which Republicans introduce. If we had a majority, we never would have had the whole BS with the AHCA at all.

This is why I'm loving what Bernie is doing right now. He's focused on how not only beat Trump but defeat Republicans as a whole; he's engaging the public straight on and will bring out voters, many of whom are independents and that is the strategy we need in order to take back the stupid and replace it with adults.

Yes, they'll still have the Presidency but the lamer the duck Trump is, the better

[yardwork]

116. Please stop shouting. Remove all-caps. Thank you.

[FDRsGhost]

120. lol I copied and pasted the headline. :)

Anything you want to add about what the article says?

[FDRsGhost]

127. Again, anything to add about the article or are you just going to hurl insults?

Please feel free to comment on what I posted in the op, thanks

Not getting baited into your ad hominem attacks.

[JTFrog]

130. We've all seen your act before.

By the way.... Welcome back.

Enjoy your stay.

Again.

[FDRsGhost]

132. Huh? Okay.....?

Not sure what you're on about? Hmmm.

An "act"?

You know I decided to join the site so I can post and share ideas with fellow Democrats after reading the site for several years. I usually don't join forums, the only other one I'm on is Spark People. The welcoming committee here however has been anything BUT welcoming and I'm sort of thinking that perhaps I made the wrong decision in joining so I can post and interact. Your responses illustrates why I am thinking I made the wrong choice.

Quite the turn off to people who are new and or are thinking of joining here.

Other than that, anything you wish to add to the article or is it just more ad hominem lingo?

[JTFrog]

133. Lol, ok. nt

[FDRsGhost]

136. Indeed :)

[betsuni]

134. +1

[cwydro]

140. Yes.

And they're probably unaware that each subsequent reply to you makes it even more apparent.

[BeyondGeography]

128. Including the $15.3 trillion tax hike that would raise middle-income taxes an average of $4,700/yr?

Is that winning, too, or is it just the good stuff?

http://static.politico.com/85/51/507c58bd4bf2bf9a05c8d84b7684/tax-policy-center-analysis-of-democratic-presidential-candidate-bernie-sanderss-tax-plan.pdf

[FDRsGhost]

129. Do you mean the tax hike for single payer?

[BeyondGeography]

131. And college tuition, and paid leave and infrastructure

Assuming the extra revenue would pay for all of that.

HRC left Sanders alone on the totality of his plan. He never had to defend the cost side because he was never an actual threat to win the nomination. Polls that show people want the benefits without taking the costs into account are worse than meaningless.

[FDRsGhost]

135. I'll disgree and here's why

HRC left Sanders alone on the totality of his plan. He never had to defend the cost side because he was never an actual threat to win the nomination

I disagree. You know who wasn't a threat? Lincoln Chafee. Remember there were polls and many of them which said Bernie does better in a general against Trump. There were polls which had Bernie ahead too but that was then and this is now and I'm not here to re-fight the primaries.

Polls show that the majority of American's support single payer and here's a poll just a couple weeks ago and it has more support than the ACA does itself;


http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx

Now here's the rub; single payer costs cheaper and saves people money. Are taxes increased? Yes they sure are BUT what people in taxes is cheaper than what they would pay now. There is no deductibles, there is no co-pays, there is no cost for prescriptions (which we pay the highest for in the world) and there is no charge for taking an ambulance when you need it. On and on. Once you look at the cost breakdown between what people currently pay and all the nickel and diming vs a single payer system, the savings is something else.

Now as far as college goes; education IMHO is a human right and it should be 100% free. Other countries in Europe do this and because of this their younger generations will be miles ahead of our own. Nobody is drowning in student loan debt and it just got a lot more difficult as Trump is going to slash Pell Grants.


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/03/29/congresswoman-rebukes-white-house-proposal-to-cut-2017-pell-grants-hiv-research/

An educated public doesn't vote Republican. Right now millions of people can't buy a home and will never own one because they are so far in debt. They can't purchase a car and aren't able to get ahead. Student loans are unable to be discharged in bankruptcy (they used to be able to but that changed when W came into office and yes I wish Democrats rolled that back when we had a majority). It's a massive drag on the economy and is one of the biggest crisis we face as a nation.

We need to stop putting kids in debt that they can't get out of.

[disillusioned73]

155. Bernie just keeps being Bernie..

[Proud Liberal Dem]

158. We won't know until after November 2018

if Bernie's (Democratic) ideas are winning. At any rate, it doesn't mean much at the moment if his ideas are winning since Republicans are busy dismantling or trying to dismantle everything that President Obama and the Democrats put into law/policy during the past 8 years. Polls have generally supported what Democrats supports for years now but people are still voting heavily for Republicans and Donald Trump is POTUS.