British, English, Scottish - Who do you think you are?

[MichaelMcGuire]

In England, people of Pakistani origin feel more British than members of the white population, according to a new survey, whereas in Scotland a sense of British identity is much weaker.

British versus English

Britishness has been successfully promoted as an open identity that is multi-cultural and multi-ethnic - but it is important to ask why people from ethnic minorities almost never describe themselves as English. It is still perceived as an ethnic identity.

Labour leader Ed Miliband touched on this in a recent speech when he said: "We were too nervous to talk of English pride and English character. Connecting it to the kind of nationalism that left us ill at ease."

North of the border, Scottishness trumps Britishness, even among ethnic minorities.
He did not say it so bluntly, but Mr Miliband's concern is that for too long English national identity has remained the preserve of racists.

The debate is different in Scotland where British identity is much weaker than in other parts of the UK.

According to the report, if there are two persons who are exactly similar in every respect other than country of residence, then the person living in Scotland is predicted to report a Britishness score that is 1.04 points lower than a person living in London.

North of the border, Scottishness trumps Britishness, even among ethnic minorities.

Questions of identity

Professor John Curtice, from Strathclyde University, told Channel 4 News: "In Scotland, Scottishness has been sold as a multi-cultural identity and it does not have the same association with xenophobia as Englishness."

Prof John Curtice
Scotland's most prominent Asian MSP, Humza Yousaf, says that questions of identity have become more fluid and unrestricted -

"Take my own example. As an Asian Scot born in Glasgow to a father from Pakistan and a mother from Kenya, I went on to marry my wife, Gail, who is a white Scot born in England to an English father and Scottish mother.

He adds: "I would challenge anyone to accurately define the identity of any children we may have in the future. Will they be a quarter Scottish, a quarter Pakistani, a quarter English?”

http://www.channel4.com/news/british-english-scottish-who-do-you-think-you-are
https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/2012/06/30/ethnic-minorities-living-in-the-uk-feel-more-british-than-white-britons

[FarCenter]

1. If the UK votes to leave the EU, will the Scots vote to leave the UK and stay in the EU?

[MichaelMcGuire]

3. We vote in 2014, on the political union. I'm not sure Whitehall will give a vote on the EU anyway.nt

[FarCenter]

7. Cameron to face rebellion over EU plans

The Prime Minister caused controversy after he backed the idea of a poll on Europe “when the time is right” – probably after the next general election.

In an article for The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Cameron said that for the first time “the two words Europe and referendum can go together”. His comments appeared to signal a step-change in the Conservative’s attitude to Europe, after 100 MPs urged him to create a new relationship with Brussels.

Many Eurosceptic MPs were not satisfied, urging Mr Cameron to make a commitment to a referendum on leaving the European Union before 2015. Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrat Business Secretary, called the idea “horribly irrelevant”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9368838/Cameron-to-face-rebellion-over-EU-plans.html

The tone of the Torys has changed since Cameron came back from Brussels?

[MichaelMcGuire]

10. I don't follow Westminster politics too much.

As most off it is irrelevant. Unless on "reserved matters". I personally not see a problem with Europe as a rule, but British sovereignist do. It sometimes makes sense to share sovereignty on shared issues. That can still be done within each parliament. The improvement and collective protection of Human rights being a worthy issue to pursuit across the EU.

[dipsydoodle]

5. They'd also need to vote

on whether to use £'s or €'s.

No - I don't know how to find Euros on the keyboard - I cut and pasted that symbol.

[ikri]

8. Shift+Alt+4

On most UK keyboards (assuming you use Windows, if you're on a Mac you're on your own)

[dipsydoodle]

12. I tried what you said

and nothing happened.

Then I tried ctrl alt 4 and it worked

Thank you.

[MADem]

2. There is a magazine that is popular among the geezer set in UK called THIS ENGLAND.

It is a "patriotic" magazine that comes out quarterly "for all who love our green and pleasant land."

It is full of pretty pictures of the English countryside, villages, castles and what not, with the occasional fiction, first person or "as told to" articles about events or people in recent history.... and the occasional racist editorial rant about how much better things were in the "good old days." It is very well written, though, so the racism goes down with a spoonful of sugar! It's in there, though--and rather jarring to come across after having read some smarmy, nostalgic and sentimental tale about some topic that is entirely suitable for "the family hour."

http://www.thisengland.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=10677

[MichaelMcGuire]

6. I couldn't tell you, as a Scot, I'm not English. So I'll take your word for it.

What the article (OP) left out, was a side of British Nationalism that isn't too pretty either. i.e. Orange order.

[MADem]

19. I'm not English either....I just lived over that way and am familiar with some peculiarities of the

society. A neighbor gets the mags here as well and will toss me an odd one on occasion.

That magazine is a real charmer, until it isn't, if you know what I mean! If they'd leave the politics out of it, they'd probably do better and boost their readership if they didn't have that unfortunate racist, anti-immigrant tinge. It's not all over the magazine, it's just found in the little commentary section at the center--and it's always more than a bit off-putting!

[MichaelMcGuire]

22. I could tell by the title, sounds like a play on "This is England" they don't take kindly.

I hope they spread the stuff the increases the blood pressure with lovely pictures of the English countryside.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. I think it's from the Richard II speech

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of Majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise;
This fortress built by Nature for herself,
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands;
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed, and famous by their birth.

John of Gaunt, Scene I

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_II_%28play%29

Rather chauvinistic. The magazine has been around for some time (1968, looking it up on Wikipedia - and owned since 2009 by DC Thomson of Dundee!) All the pictures of the countryside look harmless, and the nostalgia looks it too - until it tips into a diatribe on how Europeans are ruining everything. Wikipedia says DC Thomson is cleaning it up a bit.

[MichaelMcGuire]

24. I'll give it a miss 'This England'. DC Thomson is a large publishing co it doesn't surprise.

Any more than the Scottish Daily Records owner being Trinity Mirror of London or the Scottish Sun another English-based tabloid.

[dipsydoodle]

14. Geezers ? This a geezer -

[MADem]

18. That's a scream! nt

[dipsydoodle]

20. Almost everything on the Fast Show was.

[HipChick]

4. Just a shame Brits still regard them as immigrants..

[MichaelMcGuire]

11. I read somewhere that people across the UK are more open than we used to be.

[yewberry]

9. When I think about 'British' vs 'English,'

they do feel like different terms to me. 'British' feels much more geopolitical, while 'English' seems to be an ethnic identity. Maybe it's the association with 'Empire.'

But then, what do I know? I consider myself a Scot!

[MichaelMcGuire]

13. To me British is geographical, which has personally been superseded.

By being European. In other words. I'm Scottish and European. I'm an ethnic Scot that sees all Scots, as Scots regardless of ethnicity. Identity is a personal thing and many people can and do have complex identities.

[mr blur]

15. I agree -

I'm English and European

[yewberry]

16. Remember, we have very different lines of sight on this.

I completely understand being an ethnic Scot seeing all Scots as Scots regardless of ethnicity.

However, I'm an ethnic Scot in the US, so almost by definition, here, being a Scot means being an ethnic Scot.

[MichaelMcGuire]

17. Its just Identity it can mean different things to different people.

Most Americans that view themselves as Scots tend to have surnames linked to the clanns. But ultimately its open to all.

[yewberry]

21. So true.

And yes, the clan name connections do get tied up with feelings of identity and feelings of belonging.