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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Outrage over Russian Hacking Claims is Laughable"
In light of who Putin is and what his crime ridden oligarchs have murdered and plundered I need to ask:
Is Chomsky going senile?
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/17256
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,573 posts)I didn't think he would be one of them.
Warpy
(111,120 posts)The party's heyday was in the 1920s and 1930s when they were warning about and standing up to Hitler and his domestic apologists like Prescott Bush. Once people found out where Stalin and later Krushchev were really at, they quietly drifted away and hoped like hell they weren't rich and famous enough to be targeted by the HUAC.
That has persisted as leftists with the brain cells it takes to be a leftist recognized that the "Communism" in Russia was largely a totalitarian, right wing phenomenon, the party having taken the places of the Czar and his aristocrats, the people still powerless.
Now they're well aware that the country is still controlled by old communists who grabbed all they could during the transition to whatever it is now.
Everything is antithetical to the American left over there. Maybe there are college kids who romanticize the early revolutionary period. There are also college kids who take Rand seriously. They'll all grow out of it.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Read what Chomsky said carefully instead of reading what the poster's characterization says.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)Norm Schomsky is from the old school and most likely doesn't find as much wrong with Communisn as he does with Capitalism! But He needs to update to modern day and know that
Russia = Totalitarianism
onenote
(42,531 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)The Russians aren't having to listen to concerns about human rights or war crimes or crimes against humanity, so I'll bet that makes for a far more congenial atmosphere right there. I don't know that I'd call that a "ray of light," though.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Having them holding any decision making power over our country because of our President is disastrous.
Squinch
(50,901 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I highlighted the relevant portion.
The US has interfered since 1804 in the affairs of other countries, and continues to this day. The world is aware of this even if most US citizens are not. Or choose to ignore it.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As do many history textbooks.
As do politicians.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Make your point, if you have one.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Pot, meet kettle.
I in no way excuse any electoral interference, no matter which country interferes. In my view, GOP gerrymandering, dirty money, voting machine tampering, and voter suppression far outweigh what the Russians might have accomplished.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It's fifth on your list. Interesting take on things. I see a lot of people more upset there weren't "enough debates" in the primary that the invasion of phoney news we saw, I'm guessing because they're also the people who reposted and tweeted the bullshit from Wiki and RT.
I get where their sense of shame has overwhelmed their sense of responsibility to our democracy. They need to get over it.
delisen
(6,042 posts)interference is the the sam thing.
brush
(53,726 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 4, 2017, 11:11 PM - Edit history (1)
lays it all out.
But that still doesn't mean we should just shrug our shoulders that Putin helped install a woman groping, racist, anti-immigrant misogynist into the White House.
Fuck that. We should be mad as hell.
And for the record, Obama stayed away from regime change, and has been constantly attack by many for not going into Syria.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and continues. And I did not say or imply that any electoral interference is acceptable, but GOP electoral interference is likely far greater than anything Russia may have done.
brush
(53,726 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)I certainly wasn't intending to imply any support for Russian influence in the election, but was bullied about it. When I fought back I got a hide.
I have Russian friends in Russia and elsewhere, and their opinions and understanding of all this is quite thought-provoking.
Fortunately those I know in St Petersburg are all safe, as are their families.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And you encountered one. Given how the US has maneuvered to literally surround Russia with NATO bases, if Russia established bases in Canada and Mexico, what would be the US reaction? We both know that there would be bipartisan outrage.
Only the US is allowed to run the world.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)As soon as you (I), or anyone, criticize(s) the US for past/present behavior, suddenly we are US haters, Russia lovers. etc..
Actually I DO love St. Petersburg, as I have noted here before.
I get goose bumps any time I am on the way there...
And this is where I usually go--
https://www.mariinsky.ru/en/
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I understand the focus on the many Trump-Russia connections.
But Putin is not the reason that the GOP has taken over hundreds of seats on the State and National level.
Putin is not the one who gerrymandered 30 states, and suppressed votes, and eliminated hundreds of thousands of voters from voting lists.
Putin did not write the Buckley v Valeo and Citizens United v FEC decisions.
I also think that it, the Russia lover labelling, is an attempt to shut down debate.
BeyondGeography
(39,340 posts)Oy.
Here's to the war on democracies, I guess.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)TeamPooka
(24,204 posts)spanone
(135,777 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 4, 2017, 07:55 PM - Edit history (1)
they are also chaired by republicans......
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)delisen
(6,042 posts)Being understanding of Russia's desire for lebensraum or a buffer from attack by the West is pathetic.
We need to move on from the old left's analysis of Russia. The fact is when Russia went from the Czar to the Dictatorship of the Proletariat it moved from Totalitarianism to Totalitarianism.
A lot of academic liberals took a long time to face the truth about the USSR. I used to feel for them because they were idealists and wanted the USSR to succeed.
I no longer have patience with the -isms.
A smooth talking dictator who stages fake press conferences and can sing"Blueberry Hill" is still a dictator.
Warpy
(111,120 posts)I met him 30 years ago and he's a surprisingly nice man, surprisingly because I was all set to have to cut him a lot of slack the way I always did the rich and/or famous. Most of them need it.
If he's slipping at all, he's earned the right. I do find this statement puzzling, having a foreign power interfere so much with a US election is a very big deal, no matter which foreign power. Candidates are not supposed to take foreign money, let alone ask them for help hacking an opponent. He's usually a lot sharper than this, unless he's decided that US elections have been shit for so many years it doesn't matter any more and won't matter until it's 100% paper ballots, counted by hand.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)I have found him either brilliant or simply trying to be provocative.
Warpy
(111,120 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Easing tensions is easy, Russia can stop invading other countries, killing political opponents, hating freedom, hacking Democrats, fixing US elections, etc., etc.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)that always condemn America but try and justify everything other countries do. Because even when they do something bad, somehow it's always our fault.