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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWoman, 82, told child to stop teasing a park goose, was shoved to ground by father.
at least the shover helped her to her car but he shouldn't have shoved her.Woman, 82, hurt protecting GG Park goose
An 82-year-old woman was badly hurt in Golden Gate Park after she stopped a child from teasing a goose and the child’s father shoved her to the ground, San Francisco police said Monday.
The woman was taking a stroll around Stow Lake about 11 a.m. Friday when she saw the child harassing a goose near the boathouse on the west side of the lake, said Officer Gordon Shyy, a police spokesman. She asked the child to stop.
The father, thinking she was scolding his child, shoved the woman to the ground, where she struck her head, Shyy said.
The woman suffered abrasions on her arms and was bleeding. The man helped her to her car, and she drove home with her husband, who had been walking elsewhere in the park.
Later in the day she began feeling ill, Shyy said, and went to St. Mary’s Medical Center. She was admitted with what police described as life-threatening injuries.
------------------------
Police are looking for the man who shoved her, Shyy said. He was described only as being in his 40s.
http://blog.sfgate.com/crime/2012/07/02/woman-82-hurt-protecting-gg-park-goose/
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CleanLucre
(284 posts)
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)His family probably lives in fear of him.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)A parent sees an older person "scolding" ... not hitting or even touching .. his kid and rather than ask what's going on, he shoves the woman?
As a parent, while there are plenty of things that someone could do to my kid that would result in my intervention ... some of which would cause my intervention to be physical; but I can't think of a single thing that someone could SAY to my kid that would cause me to put my hands on them ... even an utterance of the N-word.
malaise
(292,406 posts)When did this lack of respect for older folks become the norm across the planet.
He'd better hope that lady recovers.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Hell, lack of respect for any and everyone.
malaise
(292,406 posts)
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)old people with respect like they do in Japan. Even in my Italian family we treat our elderly with respect. I couldn't think even now talking back to my Nona or Nono.
Response to malaise (Reply #6)
Post removed
lpbk2713
(43,245 posts)
tblue
(16,350 posts)I hope they catch that idiot.
liberalhistorian
(20,897 posts)(too many, frankly) can get by just saying something like that to or about their perfect little darlings. I grew up with teachers, and they had to deal with that shit all the freaking time. And it's nothing at all new, either. That's why I've always tried to be really careful what I do and say around other people's children. Unless I know the parents, or the children are being really egregious, I'll generally keep quiet. It ain't worth risking my life and health over. And I tried not to be one of those parents in regards to my own son, also, he certainly wasn't at all perfect and there were times when people said things to him that he needed to hear. Now, if they'd laid a hand on him physically, that's a whole other ball game, but that didn't happen.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)To find out what the hell my kid did to upset an old woman. Some parents, sheesh.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)having been a hell-raising kid and having raised a somewhat less hell-raising daughter, I KNOW that the kid is usually at fault.
That is not to say, I will leave my kid to suffer any form of abuse ... But shoving the adult for "scolding" my precious is far, far beyond the pale.
It never happened. My kids were pretty good in public (don't ask about home or school, though.) but it would be my first response to see what they had done to upset her. Plus geese are frickin' mean. He should have been thanking her.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)I grew up out in the country. Close neighbors had a pond and some geese. If Ollie and his harem didn't know you, they would attack in a V formation with Ollie at the center of the V.
Park geese are probably more tame, but a goose like Ollie could do some serious damage to a five-year-old.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,368 posts)Or do I need more coffee?
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)And wanted to help them on their way before they or someone else called the police.
He sounds like someone with very poor impulse control. You have to wonder how he treats his family behind closed doors if he would assault an old lady at a park.
treestar
(82,383 posts)
dogknob
(2,431 posts)Stow Lake geese don't take no shit.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)Geese can be mean for no reason. 
--imm
CanonRay
(15,924 posts)when I was about 3...the whole neighborhood had a laugh riot over it.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Makes me laugh just to think of it! 
CanonRay
(15,924 posts)I was embarrassed and I didn't know what the word meant!
GreenPartyVoter
(73,368 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)rateyes
(17,460 posts)would soon be under the ground, after suffering miserably. piece of shit.
Cronkite
(158 posts)I don't believe it would warrant death however he would learn that old women have sons that will not look at an assault on "Mom" favorably.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)She could have broken a hip, as well. What a dickhead.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)The cops say "life-threatening injuries.". 
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and explained that the rocks could injure or kill them. I was mid-late 50s at the time. His entitled asshole father, who was about twice my size, puffed himself up and was about to blow.
Then his gaze shifted slightly and he noticed the big, beautiful black labx at my side, with big, beautiful white teeth. He deflated in a big hurry, turned and told his kid to leave the ducklings alone. He looked pretty peeved. Good.
People have become such complete and total assholes I hate to leave my home any more.
I hope they find the cretin that shoved that poor woman and throw the book at him. And I hope her husband can sue his fucking ass off to pay any and all medical expenses, along with pain and suffering.
What an asshole. Poor kid is gonna grow up a freakin' mess. 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but the evidence of that was well before he shoved the woman. What reasonable adult sits by and watches his kid torment an animal, or any other living thing, including people?
pink-o
(4,056 posts)Who was probably cruel to animals when he was growing up--yknow before turning that cruelty on humans as all sociopaths do. Little brute brat obviously is a chip off the old block.
Gawd, sometimes I hate my species and how we treat the other residents of this planet--hell, how we treat the planet itself! For having the biggest brains of all, we sure have small minds!
REP
(21,691 posts)Most kids like animals and want to be friends, not hurt them ... and most parents teach their kids the right way to interact with animals, even if just to keep their kids from being bitten or scratched.
I very much hope that Precious Snowflake doesn't have any animal companions at home.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)one has since crossed the rainbow bridge. Both are (were) big softies. My black lab Chessie mix who is 11 now, she is a big baby but man can she bark - she scares larger breeds away - but she is all bark. Once in the house she curls up in my lap (even though she is 80 lbs).
People think big black dogs are scary - those of us who love them know differently!
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)his mother (?) says "he likes to throw rocks at dogs"
I wanted to tell her: "My foot likes to kick people like you in the ass" but I just stood between her kid and my dogs. It is stunning how some people think animals are just like dart boards for their kids to "play with."
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)I would have said, "What are you going to do if he encounters a dog who fights back when kids throw rocks at it?"
get the red out
(13,943 posts)I can't believe someone expected you to just let their child throw rocks at your dog????? What a total piece of shit that woman is! When did harming animals become acceptable play for kids? My ass would have been smacked good for that kind of crap and I'm grateful for it, of course I can't ever recall wanting to hurt animals, I always loved them. These parents are creating monsters.
I am starting to wonder if I need to buy pepper spray to protect my dog when I walk her. My God, these idiots!
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)I takes me a second to start to respond because some of it is just bizarre. I had a woman in the space of 3 seconds say "your dogs look thirsty" and simultaneously she stoops and sprays them in the face with one of those water bottles off of a bike (!) A stream of water in their faces like they are those clown heads at the fair that you spray the target and balloon blows up.
One of the more extreme ones was a guy, got down on his knees and barked at one of my dogs from about 12 inches away while telling his own dog "you don't need to be scared of this mean dog..." 3 people at a cafe table watched it happen and I just let him do it and held my dog tight. He got up and walked away with his dog. Something like that is just so weird and unexpected that by the time I have any appropriate response it's over.
Part of my adaptation is that I used to walk 2 big scary looking dogs in Manhattan and no one would approach them. Now I am in a small town with 2 very friendly looking lab/golden mixes and it's very different, lots more attention for the dogs. No fear or boundaries. People want to feed them and kiss them and whatever. Most people mean well so I try not to over react although when something develops that really threatens the dogs health or safety I just go into auto-pilot and hyper speed.
DiverDave
(5,212 posts)The one that barked?
You described someone that was on the verge of hurting someone.
Has he gotten the help he needed?
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)after being hit with a rock, the owner would be liable for the child's injuries.
If I ever caught someone (child or adult) throwing a rock at my dog I would be hard pressed not to kick their ass.
Number23
(24,544 posts)CLASSIC!!!
Scout
(8,625 posts)when out in public.
doesn't matter what they are doing, don't you dare even LOOK at them.
i got bitched out when i said something to the "father" whose daughter was knocked down by my dog, in the dog park ... the child was not hurt, did not cry, the dog simply bumped into her and knocked her down ... but i got bitched out for suggesting daddy maybe should take his precious to the park for children, rather than spoiling the fun for the dogs at the dog park.
unless they appear to be about to lose life or limb, i do not speak to children in public.
ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)"it has long been a cardinal sin to even speak to a child that is not your own when out in public."
Is that an exaggeration, or do folks really believe that?
ladjf
(17,320 posts)bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)Suits me. I don't like talking to brats anyway, beyond "where's your mother?"
Romulox
(25,960 posts)(or so seems to be the attitude.)
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)we were punished by neighbors, aunts, uncles, close family friends, etc. Noboby thought twice about it.
Now, parents get attorneys and sue people, which teaches their children ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about responsibility.
Kids these days....shit....
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)pleased were so much better. Right. One of my friends got hit with a buggy whip regularly by his dad. It made him such a much better person. Course it didn't do him a whole lot of good because he got killed when he was 17 because he was drinking and riding with a 17 year old driver who was also drinking. Yeah, but nobody thought twice about the buggy whip beatings because they taught that kid so much responsibility.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I think I typed punished, not hit.
Maybe you need reading comprehension skills.
I love my nieces, nephew, great nieces and nephews to death.....I would die for them...but I would punish them if need be....
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)when they're having a party and Don's kid runs down the stairs and almost knocks over a vase or something. Another father smacks him across the face. Don sees this, asks what's going on and after being told forces his kid to apologize to the dad for making him do that.
Obviously hitting someone across the face for almost knocking over a vase is extreme. But we seem to have gone to the opposite extreme.
Maybe we'll swing back and stay somewhere in the middle in the near future.
/went from "everyone discipline my kids" to "no one discipline my kids, not even me".
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)Another episode that applied the same form of irony, where the audience expects one reaction and gets the total opposite, was when the Drapers were picknicking in the park and when finished, picked up the blanket and let all the trash fall off onto the grass and walked away.
Things sure were different back then!
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)I get that it was a different time, but come on.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)From the show that has taken the #1 drama of all times mark away from The (original) Prisoner.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)just one of my big pet peeves.
I think litterers should be forcibly sterilized, flogged in public, and then branded with a giant "L" on their forehead.
For the first offense.
That is as far as my leniency and forgiveness will go.
COLGATE4
(14,884 posts)is going to learn what 'you take your victim as you find him' means.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)
Pilotguy
(438 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Or if the story related to her husband back at the car is accurate.
... I hope they find the guy.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)I don't remember hearing about elderly women getting bullied and punched around like this in the past.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)if a child is harassing geese, let the geese take care of the kid. The lady just may have saved that kid from a severe pecking or worse. geese gone vigilante is not a pretty sight.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)One can only imagine how he punishes his child
MADem
(135,425 posts)Most geese will fuck you up if you mess with them. The woman should have let the goose mess the little shit up--of course, he probably learned the behavior from his lousy father.
That said, the father is an asshole if this story is accurate, and needs to be charged with assault and battery.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)the older lady should've been minding her own business?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Consistent, yes.
Wrong, absolutely.
obamanut2012
(29,153 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,138 posts)the father had actually been parenting.
Sadly, you seem to think that the older lady did the wrong thing.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Incitatus
(5,317 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)....you shouldn't procreate.
emilyg
(22,742 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)The father should have stopped the kid from harassing the animals.
Animals have no voice. They depend on decent humans to speak up for them when they are being harassed or tortured by indecent human beings.
Iow, since daddio is to much of a sociopath to teach his brats not to harass animals, IT WAS HER BUSINESS.
IT IS ALL OF OUR BUSINESS.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)and exceptional pecking ability.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)but I've witnessed and stepped in when it was tiny ducklings being pelted with rocks by a snotnose whose father very nearly came after me (until he noticed my big black dog with big white teeth smiling up at him) and a squirrel being chased in a car by teens.
And I know of a filly that had her tail doused in fingernail polish remover and lit up by a vile, despicable hateful teenaged I won't write the word I want to use or I'll be banned. She had to have it amputated -- a horse's tail is not just a pretty ornament. It is their main protection from flies, and she will not have that protection for the rest of her life.
And I know of another filly that was beaten in the head with a golf club until it broke, and then stabbed with the broken club. Her breeder and owner found her dead in a bloodbath the next morning when she went to feed. That was by a college teen who had trespassed on her property in the past and been "humiliated" when the filly's mother protected her from him. He came back later for "revenge" against the horses.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)as was the case when the brat was pitching rocks at the ducklings, or if the parents are somewhere in the crowd and you don't know which individuals they are, then you speak up for the animals, period.
Sorry, but no go. And if some brat is harassing animals I will stop the harassment on the spot. I am not going to waste my precious time, or risk those animals lives and safety, in order to find a neglectful parent.
They can monitor their brats and teach their children to respect all life, or they can get pissed as hell at me when I explain it to their brats for them. I really don't care which they choose to do.
If my big black dog is with me, they won't assault me. If my big black dog isn't there to protect me and they assault me, they will be arrested for assault. But I will put myself between a harassed animal and the brat harassing it. Period.
They take their brats into public and they risk having strangers correct their brats shitty behavior if they don't correct it themselves. They don't like it? Stay the eff home.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)What specifically leads you to believe that observed animal abuse is not in fact, the business of the observer?
LeftishBrit
(41,444 posts)Good grief. Just because one doesn't like something that another person says, it's OK to attack them physically?
And maybe it was good for the kid to learn that some people don't think it's all right to tease a living creature.
Not good for him to witness his dad's violence, however.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)But she shouldn't go around scolding kids that aren't hers.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)scolded or corrected,does not sound like the parents are.
mythology
(9,527 posts)then strangers won't have to take care of the little snot eater. But when the actual parents fail to do their job, and their spawn is creating a public hazard, then yes, other people can step in.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)It was a public park and animals in a public park are EVERYONE'S business, so she was minding her own business, as a concerned citizen. Unless we liberals are supposed to no longer be concerned citizens.
God I am so glad I don't have kids, I would hate being around parents all the time.
bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)woolldog
(8,791 posts)nothing!
mizzuz pibb
(14 posts)
If a child is being maltreated or an animal attacked, it IS my business as a non-zombie, non-selfish asshole!
Parents do not own their kids. Their kids are not supposed to make them look good.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)But you must know that so it's even worse than shitty.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)Do you have any idea how dangerous that is? A goose can and will bite, and I've watched one break an arm. This is not a wise thing.
Jesus H. So, he hits an elderly woman, whereupon she falls to the ground and gets injured, then takes her to her car....because she stopped his dumb kid from doing something that could get him injured or killed?
Brilliant.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)post, I mistakenly thought that the 82 yr old woman had been harassing the goose and that the man knocked her down because of that. Knowing what I know about the personality of adult geese, I was thinking the the goose would have been able to protect itself from the child.
I doubt that the goose would have seriously injured the child but, it could have scared hell out of the her. Years ago I saw a large mother goose, defending her nest by a lake , take on a large cotton mouth moccasin, causing the snake to beat a fast retreat back into the lake.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)They aren't cute, and they will attack both children and adults, especially in mating and egg laying season. Canada geese are damn dangerous, and they are damned aggressive. Don't tease them, don't turn your back on an aggressive bird, and don't run. Seriously.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)to not let their small children feed the geese (scared for the children, these are not ducks, feed the gosh darn ducks!), especially in nesting season and get angry remarks in return. I finally learned to tell the parents that the geese have fleas (they do). That gets them to gather up their 2, 3 or 4 year old and leave the geese. Then I use my small dog to chase the geese from the park, heh, The do not belong in our park, they need to go to Canada. Border collies don't hurt geese, they just want them to all be together. anyway, I have had a gaggle of geese come back after us and had to run from the park - yes, they can defend themselves just fine.
I do find this story light on facts - did he push her, bump into her or did she back up and trip? Was the kid playing among the geese (not a good thing) or chasing them? Did the woman scold him or grab him? I am not going to take a side here when we don't know what really happened. What happened was bad, but how it got that way is open to question.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I have no idea what your post means.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I would ask parents to stop having their children try and hand feed the geese - they would give me a nasty comment back about kids and having fun and none of my business. I would never approach a child directly unless in immediate danger, always talk to the parents first.
I found if I said the geese had fleas, the parents would listen, if I said that geese were dangerous - they would ignore me.
The geese in our parks, do not belong there, they are Canadian geese that have gotten lazy, but if you have a border collie, they would try and herd the geese and the geese would just leave and move one. usually, although if it is too near mating season, they will attack, sometimes as a group. We never bother them in the spring, but try to gently move them on to a wild life area, instead of this urban park, where they take over the children's playgrounds.
It is all about protecting the children.
no parent ever touched me, I never touched or spoke to their child.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)he Huffington Post | By Andy Campbell Posted: 04/16/2012 11:14 am Updated: 04/16/2012 5:03 pm
Family and friends are trying to cope today with the death of an Illinois man who drowned Saturday after getting attacked by the swans he was employed to take care of.
It was supposed to be a normal day for 37-year-old Anthony Hensley, who worked for a company that used swans and dogs to keep geese away from properties on a Des Plaines pond, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. But tragedy struck when two swans swam at Hensley's kayak, somehow causing him to roll off the vessel.
Hensley -- wearing boots and heavy clothing -- died trying to swim back to shore as horrified witnesses looked on, CBS reported.
"His kayak wasn't upside down, but it was, like, upwards," Daniel Gamanov told the station. "You could see the tip of it."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/kayaker-drowns-swan-attack-anthony-hensley-illinois_n_1428331.html
ladjf
(17,320 posts)I had seen. Wish you could have seen the battle between those two. Goose was honking, flapping and pecking. Snake was striking but hitting nothing. Snake retreated after about 30 seconds of battle. ( and cotton mouths are no cowards.)
PDJane
(10,103 posts)Especially one with cygnets somewhere. Those are big, aggressive birds, and anything with babies around can get seriously nasty. And yeah, a cottonmouth would be outweighed and outmaneuvered! I would have given it up quickly too. My brother lives behind a golf course, and the geese have taken over part of it to raise their babies. The guy who does the grounds won't move them, won't even get out of his work vehicle around them during the spring. He has been attacked more than once. He claims that they can't pay him enough to get out and try and move them!
ladjf
(17,320 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)what damage the goose could do to his kid if the teasing continued.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)if it had been an animal that didn't have a goose's defense systems.
PARENTS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO TEACH THEIR CHILDREN NOT TO HARASS ANIMALS. Not just because their spoiled obnoxious little punks might get hurt. but because their spoiled obnoxious little punks MIGHT HURT SOMEBODY ELSE.
SHEESH.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)I am so sick of no one caring about the welfare of animals, just "ooooooo the precious little (spoiled) children". Animals are so often defenseless, children should not be permitted to harm them "having fun". Someone up thread talked about a parent that was going to permit her child to "have fun" throwing rocks at his dogs while he walked them. God help me if anyone ever thinks it's ok to allow their brat to hurt my dog. And if some no good devil spawn is harming a wild creature in my presense then the damned shit-head that spawned them will just have to be prepared for the criminal process when they harm me. All everyone is talking about how you must never say anything to these devil spawn because of the wrath of their parents, what kind of society are we creating????????
It is time we defend the defenseless. I can't abide children that torture animals, I simply can't, no one should put up with that.
smokey nj
(43,853 posts)This kid's a dumbass, even the dogs I walk know enough to steer clear of the geese.
surrealAmerican
(11,732 posts)He or she might just be too young to know any better, and too poorly supervised to have been told.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Random pic from Google images
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)No excuse for what this asshole did, but I will always keep to myself to avoid altercations.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)"Keep your head down, don't look around"
pnwest
(3,419 posts)and the crotchety old woman was being unnecessarily crotchety to the child, maybe even scaring the child. And maybe, just maybe, the father put his hand on the woman's shoulder to get her attention to get her to stop scaring his kid, and she lost her balance and fell down. Makes more sense to imagine him helping her to her car if she fell, than if he shoved her.
And then again, maybe not. Point is, we're only getting one side of the story.
obamanut2012
(29,153 posts)And a "child being a child" doesn't include harassing and baiting animals.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)are you fucking shitting me?
REP
(21,691 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)funny! good one!
snooper2
(30,151 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)I hope you aren't serious.
obamanut2012
(29,153 posts)Next strawman!
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Seriously, you claim to know facts in a case where only 3 people seem to know the facts and the closest person to witnessing it says there are 2 different stories and that gives you absolute knowledge of what took place? You then attack anyone who questions that viewpoint?
Give me a break.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)according to the father, at the scene.
So i guess in that case, she would be guilty of assault and battery.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)--for example, yanking a child back from a goose attack. Geese are vicious when they feel threatened but to a young child they look benign.
It's pretty clear that the father regretted his part in her hitting the ground. He may have *thought* she had her hand on his child in a threatening manner but overreacted by shoving her with too much force. What we do know is that he left the scene and the only first hand account is from the woman, coupled with the father's statements to the lake manager.
I hope that the woman recovers.
Response to pnwest (Reply #44)
Post removed
pnwest
(3,419 posts)...sheep. Bleev everything ya read, do ya?
frylock
(34,825 posts)you're the one making wild speculation. so you go on ahead and continue to believe that shoving an 80 year-old woman to the ground was justified and we'll continue to believe you're just another asshole.
pnwest
(3,419 posts)to the ground was justified!!!! Who are you?
frylock
(34,825 posts)Response to frylock (Reply #133)
pnwest This message was self-deleted by its author.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)The "crotchety old woman" was planning to lure the sweet innocent child to her gingerbread house and eat him.
Hey, it could happen.
Sincerely,
a loudmouthed middle-aged woman who is also bitter and whatever other cliché you might want to add.
pnwest
(3,419 posts)the child six times to leave the damn geese alone, even taking him by the hand and walking him away from the geese. And maybe, 10 minutes later the kid was at it again and Dad, in a moment of tough love and exasperation, thought to himself, "Ok, fine. I'll let the goose tell him to leave him alone this time. I bet THEN he'll stop fucking with the geese". Perhaps his parenting decision, in that moment, was to let the child learn about consequences the hard way, the woman happened upon the scene and interfered, and the moment escalated. NOT SAYING HE WAS JUSTIFIED IN SHOVING HER TO THE GROUND! Just saying maybe he accidently knocked her to the ground, which is still wrong, but not exactly the same as shoving her. Maybe before we villify this guy, maybe let's admit we weren't there, we haven't heard his side of the story, and maybe he's not automatically Satan, just made a bad move in a moment of exasperation.
Any of you ever had a moment like that with your kids?
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)I've never had a moment like that with my kid, and I can't even imagine my kid -- at any age -- tormenting an animal. More to the point, I'd never raise my hands to an elderly person.
I agree that the details of this story are sketchy, but an 82-year-old woman on the ground is not a good outcome.
pnwest
(3,419 posts)is the standard to which we all strive. But please point out to me where I said her being on the ground was a good outcome?
I'm just trying to dial back a notch on the automatic reaction of some here to fire up the righteous indignation and just assume this guy is the devil incarnate.
Something about the way this post was presented just did not ring true to me, and I just bristle at people who attempt to manipulate my emotions with sensationalized, over the top half-information.
Kinda why I'm a leftie to begin with.
I'm not advocating elderly abuse, animal abuse, child abuse, or bad parenting decisions. I'm advocating not judging or villifying someone so quickly without at least hearing his side of the story...?
WTF is so wrong with that idea that justifies someone above calling me an asshole? Seriously.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)get the red out
(13,943 posts)I don't get that. I am sick of that attitude in our society, where kids can do no wrong and must never be told they are doing wrong. It's sickening.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I see kids chasing geese and ducks regularly. One of my own family members, age 4 then, exhibited that behavior in front of me and I promptly had a conversation about how birds have feelings, just like people do, and they don't like to be chased. Just telling him that made him think of the birds differently. It worked.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Some guy who was watching the scene said, "Son, if you catch that mother robin, she'll peck your eyes out"!
I never chased birds after that
frylock
(34,825 posts)
d_r
(6,908 posts)close to tree
theaocp
(4,550 posts)he's a sperm donor. Parent is a verb, not a noun.
Initech
(107,286 posts)
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)"you telling me how to raise my kid?"
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)Totally not being a devil's advocate, but based on the story you can't really know what the truth is, can you? And frankly that headline is wrong.. there is no proof that happened that way... is there??
Yes, 82 year old ladies might grab a little boy on the neck, not in a menacing way.. but in the way a grandparent might with their own grand kid.. in a scolding fashion.
And yes, 82 year old women DO fall down easily.. one day, I was sitting at the beach, near a cliff. A nice woman around that age come over to talk to me.. and as we talked it got hotter out. So I suggested she have a seat on the bench with me, so she could rest. She turned to get on the bench, and got tangled up and fell straight for the cliff. I was able to grab the only thing near me, which was her dog's leash, and she did not fall off the cliff. But all it took was her shoe to hit one spot on the ground, for her to go sailing. And just like the story here, she hit her head and was bleeding profusely. I called 911, took her dog back to her house, and she went to the hospital. Yes, it happens that way sometimes.
Not saying that it happened the way the Father said it did, BUT the father was "concerned" and he helped her into the car, and he got help. This doesn't sound like someone that shoved her to the ground. That's all I'm saying.
We're all so quick to be like "oh horrible people out there!!! evil man!!!" but all of the facts don't line up that way, if the man helped her to the car, etc.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Nothing I've read corroborates her story. In fact, the story implies that the cops heard it from the husband who heard it from the 82 year old lady with a head injury.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The "in his 40's guy" only exists in the words of the police spokesman. No eyewitnesses, no suspects.
The story strongly implies that the blogger heard it from the cops who heard it from the lady's elderly husband who heard it from his elderly and head-injured wife.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Wonder if the elderly couple has a history.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The validity of the responses in this thread are entirely dependent on the prevailing DU stereotypes of men, and especially fathers.
Until someone else saw it, it never happened.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)An employee interacted with the father. He saw the father, the boy and the woman.
I'm not responding on stereotypes of fathers or men. But, I tend to believe the 86 year old woman with life-threatening injuries with no apparent motive to lie. The article in the OP is the only source that raises any doubt as to her version of events. And that is based solely on what the father said to an employee who arrived after the fact.
There was a father. There was an altercation. All we don't know is how she fell. She says she was pushed. The man involved has yet to come forward to dispute that.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)I ran some searches and it seems all articles stem from two initial reports. One is as is written at the OP link. The other makes no mention of the employee or an alternative version of events.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Bother, tease, harass the birds in the park and any adult would stop and lecture and do what they could to get the park authorities.
And no, my parents would never, EVER lay hands on an older person.
I might have been innocent - but first my folks would want to know what I did to agitate and get scolded from some other adult.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Because the parents of bullies are usually just like this dipshit.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)What did the victim do to bring it on? Because it certainly can't be the bully's/my little darling's fault!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY PARENTING!
This is why so many kids suck now.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)a Village. When I was a kid and we were creating a public nuisance (yes, it happened occasionally) there was always an adult around to "scold" us. Now, you had better mind your own business or fear for your life.
What has happened to us???!!!
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)Maybe we should wait for the facts before judging.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)Trial by internet discussion group based on third hand accounts solves nothing.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)
Get a grip.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)Not all 80 year old women are puny weaklings and it can't be assumed that she could not have hurt the child. Besides, how many people make that analysis if they see someone appearing to choke a 5 year old?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)but it used to be quite common for teachers and the like to get a child's attention by gently but perceptibly placing their thumb and forefinger on the child's neck. Believe me, it was the farthest thing from either strangulation or a Vulcan Nerve Pinch.
It also used to be quite common for parent's to realize that they were responsible for their child's behavior and that they should admonish them before a stranger had to and that strangers had a right to correct their children if their children were misbehaving.
What's new in the last twenty or thirty years is parents assuming that their children are so perfect and fragile that they will wither and die psychologically if anyone says a cross word to them.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)she was an 82 year old lady does not mean she used this "used to be quite common" technique and just because the dad was 40 doesn't mean he would have objected to verbal admonishment of his child. Lot of stereotyping in that analysis. No dad should have to stand by if he thinks his child is being physically assaulted regardless of who is doing it and what age they are. Why is the dad's version of events less believable than the woman's?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)He was likely chasing the geese (who are quite capable of viciously protecting themselves btw) and that is, according to this board, "Cruelty". Yet, if the adult woman put's her hands on an unknown child's neck, it is dismissed and followed with the ever charming "get a grip"?
How incredibly twisted.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)Or at least trying to protect the boy and got a little carried away. Everybody needs to not make judgments based on third hand information and assumptions about what 5 year old boys, 40 year old dads, or 82 year old women might do in this situation.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)the more likely the child's parent is to resent anyone speaking discouraging words to Precious Little Fragile Angel.
On occasion over the years, I have warned children who were doing potentially dangerous or destructive things. The parents with well-behaved kids have thanked me; the parents with poorly behaved kids have bawled me out for interfering with their child's fun.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)actual facts.
revolution breeze
(879 posts)we were at a petting zoo. She got it into her six year old mind that she wanted to get a peacock feather a few yards away. Unfortunately for her, a huge gander had decided the peacock was his mate and as she neared the feather, the goose went berserk. Her started hissing and running right for her. Thankfully her uncle grabbed her and ran. She is now 22 and has a healthy regard for geese.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)That idiot, rotten, spoiled, cruel child needed major time out. Dad needs time in jail, a LOOOOONG TIME in jail.
What is wrong with scolding a heartless brat who is harassing an innocent creature anyway? When did that become a crime punishable by idiot parents by murder?
Talk about setting a kid up to fail. Dad goes to jail now, junior will go to jail later when he harms humans instead of birds.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)The article does say, based on second hand testimony of the father's claims, that the woman had her hands on the boy's neck. Who knows if this is true because we really only have second hand testimony involved with the whole report.
Supposing the father's claims are right, and at the very least they carry as much weight as any one else's claims at this point, and the "idiot, rotten, spoiled, cruel child", who is 5 yrs old BTW, chased a goose. Is an appropriate response, to perceived animal cruelty, placing ones hands on the child's body? Suppose that side of the tale is the truth and the father simply tried to remove the elderly woman's hands from his son's neck. The elderly are not always known for their balance and in some instances their impulse control is also not so hot.
I am amazed at the discussion about this, esp. based on so little info. The kid is a "cruel" and "spoiled" brat and the father needs to go to jail? Really...?!!?
What is the harm in waiting for more information before we scream vengeance and fury.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)I think there is probably more to the story. I doubt the guy meant to deck an old lady, it was probably more like what you describe.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)the dad to viciously beat up an 82 year old woman!
This is the only version of events which can possibly be true. If you think otherwise you are a bad parent who coddles your children and inflicts your brats on unsuspecting geese and old women!
get the red out
(13,943 posts)We should not tolerate these out of control SPOILED, ROTTEN, MISERABLE, ANIMAL TORTURING BRATS.
This old lady did not harm this idiot devil spawn, she corrected him. He had it coming. I hope his father rots in prison for what he's done. It's past time we stopped tolerating parents like him and their wretched get.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)Perhaps it is time to take a step away from the computer and engage yourself in some soothing activities.
Later.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)It seems you love men who attack old ladies, maybe there's a horror movie just waiting online for you.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)or her own actions. You are the one choosing to run with little or no facts in this case.
There are probably reasons for your response, and since this is a message board, we'll have to leave it at that.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)If he had controlled his child this would have never come about. He didn't, the lady tried to, the father caused her fall.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)switch to decaf?
pnwest
(3,419 posts) snooper2
(30,151 posts)Is this your youtube channel?
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)think it more likely that he was trying to pet the goose but again, I don't know. Just that most 5 year olds are not the vicious spoiled brats that the boy is being portrayed as here with very little evidence.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The father, whom Steele described as agitated and concerned, said the woman had grabbed his son’s neck to stop him from playing with the geese. When he tried to get her away from the boy, she fell and hit her head, he told Steele.
The boy, who appeared to be about 5 years old, was quiet as the woman was being helped, Steele said.
That is farther down in the article.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)I mean, really, children will be children!! After all, we're supposed to put up with screaming kids in restaurants & movies, why can't this lady handle a kid teasing a goose?
for the sarcasm-impaired.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)Changes the tone a bit if this is true.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)The kid needed corrected. Wretched brat. Wretched dad.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)Wow.
Your U/N is interesting in light of your responses. You do realize that many "red" folks prefer severe corporal punishment for young children. They also are not really interested in facts before judgements. They also like to shout about vengeance and awful lot.
If it sings like a bird and walks like a bird and flies like a bird...
get the red out
(13,943 posts)I hate a lot of parents though. Nice of you to ask.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)Your U/N is interesting in light of your responses. You do realize that many "red" folks prefer severe corporal punishment for young children. They also are not really interested in facts before judgements. They also like to shout about vengeance and awful lot.
If it sings like a bird and walks like a bird and flies like a bird...
"get the red out" indeed.
get the red out
(13,943 posts)Must always fight for the big guy that beats up old ladies????? Sounds a LOT like screaming "Let 'em Die" to me.
Did you escape from Freeperville for this thread?
It's also Rethuglicans that try to make people worship children and have more and more of them.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)You got all that out of the article?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)and if the answer is 1 or more, have they talked to you in the past year?
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)I'd be telling her to stop long before anyone else could say anything (and if I didn't tell her to stop, I'd probably be cheering the goose on so that my kid received a lesson about unhappy waterfowl).
I'm guessing that this idiot father has no idea how nasty geese can get and how much it hurts when they bite. As someone whose grandparents had a small working farm, complete with geese, chickens, cows and horses, I know only too well what a goose bite feels like. 52 years later and I remember it like it was yesterday. And I wasn't harassing them, just not getting them their feed fast enough for their liking. There is a reason whiskey distilleries in Scotland use geese as watch animals and it's not only because they work cheaper than dogs.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)And i agree with you that parents, as a rule, should keep a close eye on their children when geese are around.
Geese can do a significant amount of damage to a young child. Not likely a young child will be able to do much harm to a full wild grown goose though. It was difficult for me to get a good hold of our medium sized, very tame, geese.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)I wonder if the responses would be different even with the same story. It seems like it's still not clear what, exactly, happened.
"A young boy spending a cool, cloudy morning in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park, either frolicking among the geese at Stow Lake or harassing them.
An elderly woman taking her small terrier on their daily walk, who either did nothing more than scold the boy or grabbed him by the neck.
The boy’s father, who either knocked the woman over accidentally or shoved her to the ground.
Police haven’t found any independent witnesses who saw what happened Friday. All they know for sure is that the 82-year-old woman is in the hospital with a life-threatening head wound, and they would like to get the father’s side of the story."
pnwest
(3,419 posts)Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)which ones have children who make other adults think, "Oh, no, here they come with their brats!"
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)lousy parents to think like that. Condescend much?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,223 posts)Don't assume I was talking about you.
yellowcanine
(36,714 posts)Ednahilda
(195 posts)for one to go after you. This video is pretty funny, though.
http://www.break.com/index/goose-attacks-man-2312805
Ednahilda
(195 posts)somehow with the linky thing. Maybe it will work this time.
http://www.break.com/index/goose-attacks-man-2312805
pnwest
(3,419 posts)having any luck finding one...anyone else try?