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Behind the Aegis

(53,950 posts)
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:55 PM Apr 2017

And they rose...and fought back! 74 years ago, today, the Jews said, "NO!"

It was the eve of Passover and the Germans were advancing into the Warsaw Ghetto in order to deport the remaining Jews to death camps throughout Poland. They refused to go to the slaughter quietly and rebelled. It lasted less than a month (May 16th), and 13,000 Jews were murdered, they fought! They resisted! They stood up as a people!

13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising (some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation). Of the remaining 50,000 residents, most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps, in particular to Treblinka.

Jürgen Stroop's internal SS daily report for Friedrich Krüger, written on 16 May 1943, stated:

"180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. ... Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. ... Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out."[29]

According to the casualty lists in Stroop's report, German forces suffered a total of 110 casualties – 17 dead (of whom 16 were killed in action) and 93 injured – of whom 101 are listed by name, including over 60 members of the Waffen-SS. These figures did not include Jewish collaborators, but did include the "Trawniki men" and Polish police under his command. The real number of German losses, however, may be well higher (the Germans suffered about 300 casualties by Edelman's estimate). For propaganda purposes, the official announcement claimed the German casualties to be only a few wounded, while propaganda bulletins of the Polish Underground State announced that hundreds of occupiers had been killed in the fighting.

German daily losses of killed/wounded and the official figures for killed or captured Jews and "bandits", according to the Stroop report:
According to Israel Gutman, "the number cited by Stroop (16 dead, 85 wounded) cannot be rejected out of hand, but it is likely that his list was neither complete, free of errors, nor indicative of the German losses throughout the entire period of resistance, until the absolute liquidation of Jewish life in the ghetto. All the same, the German casualty figures cited by the various Jewish sources are probably highly exaggerated."[56] Other historians such as Raul Hilberg and French L. MacLean endorse the accuracy of official German casualty figures.[57][58] On the other hand, Stroop report vastly exaggerated actual losses (and strength) of the resistance.


The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was the largest single revolt by Jews during World War II.[59]

source


Never Forget!
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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And they rose...and fought back! 74 years ago, today, the Jews said, "NO!" (Original Post) Behind the Aegis Apr 2017 OP
Memory eternal shenmue Apr 2017 #1
Just Finished Reading 'The Zookeeper's Wife'... JimGinPA Apr 2017 #2
Never Forget sheshe2 Apr 2017 #3
"Zot Nit Keynmol" - sung by Paul Robeson DinahMoeHum Apr 2017 #4
Respect orangecrush Apr 2017 #5
Never forget! COLGATE4 Apr 2017 #6
I first learned of such things when I was about 10 bucolic_frolic Apr 2017 #7
When your parents or guardian deem it appropriate. Nt NCTraveler Apr 2017 #8
Well that didn't seem to work out very well bucolic_frolic Apr 2017 #9
Happens to a lot of children. NCTraveler Apr 2017 #10
YOUR answer bucolic_frolic Apr 2017 #11
My reply wasn't suppose to contain or lack empathy. NCTraveler Apr 2017 #12
The question is: where were your parents in this scenario? I don't remember not knowing.... Hekate Apr 2017 #13
How old was Anne Frank cate94 Apr 2017 #16
a tv show will never encompass the tragedy of the Warsaw Ghetto Demonaut Apr 2017 #30
I won't. Solly Mack Apr 2017 #14
Never forget Hekate Apr 2017 #15
My uncle was a teenager in the ghetto who resisted and survived The Blue Flower Apr 2017 #17
Martin Rose NCTraveler Apr 2017 #21
Thank you The Blue Flower Apr 2017 #22
Never Forget irisblue Apr 2017 #18
every time we forget, they come again oldcynic Apr 2017 #19
We were introduced to "The Diary of Anne Frank" madamesilverspurs Apr 2017 #20
I was 14 when... spike jones Apr 2017 #23
Welcome to DU, spike jones! calimary Apr 2017 #28
Behind the Aegis Mesee Apr 2017 #24
Welcome to DU, Mesee. calimary Apr 2017 #29
Thank you for sharing. Behind the Aegis Apr 2017 #33
We just had a lunch at work on "Inspiring Women" and I chose Irena Sendler who smirkymonkey Apr 2017 #25
Although 75 years seems like a long time, many of us have family members who BigDemVoter Apr 2017 #26
NEVER forget. calimary Apr 2017 #27
Let's not let the Soviets out of this Yupster Apr 2017 #31
I think that was the Warsaw Uprising, which was summer of 1944 . . . hatrack Apr 2017 #32
I'm watching the most recent Nova about The Holocaust escape tunnels in Vilna Lithuania Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 #34
We saw that toinight as well. Behind the Aegis Apr 2017 #35

JimGinPA

(14,811 posts)
2. Just Finished Reading 'The Zookeeper's Wife'...
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 05:07 PM
Apr 2017

It was covered from her point of view, outside the ghetto while her husband fought (and shot in the neck) inside.

sheshe2

(83,745 posts)
3. Never Forget
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 05:14 PM
Apr 2017
Most of the Jewish fighters did not view their actions as an effective measure by which to save themselves, but rather as a battle for the honour of the Jewish people, and a protest against the world's silence.


bucolic_frolic

(43,128 posts)
7. I first learned of such things when I was about 10
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:01 PM
Apr 2017

because there was a TV series. It still haunts me to this day. I think
my parents who had lived through WWII as Americans were interested
in reviewing the horror at a distance of time and space, but should have
shielded me from the series. Where were the Catholic censors on the
subject of violence on TV and children.

At what age do you think horrors such as these are appropriate for kids?

bucolic_frolic

(43,128 posts)
9. Well that didn't seem to work out very well
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:13 PM
Apr 2017

and their consent to my viewing such subject matter as a child was not
informed or even conscious. They didn't know or realize exactly what the
content of the programming would be, so it just happened, and I'm sure
the suitability or lack thereof never crossed their minds.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
12. My reply wasn't suppose to contain or lack empathy.
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:22 PM
Apr 2017

You asked a question and I answered. I didn't think it would cause issue or that your intent was a call for empathy. That isn't a swipe. I'll change my answer in order to show more empathy. Imagine what it was like for the children in the ghetto. All over the planet for that matter. I wish the horrors being mentioned were so deeply remembered by more.

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
13. The question is: where were your parents in this scenario? I don't remember not knowing....
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:23 PM
Apr 2017

That's how early. But my mother always explained things in an age-appropriate manner. There was a war...there was a bad man and he tried to kill a whole people...Our neighbor is a survivor of that war...

My husband's family shielded him from this in his earliest years -- and with good reason, because for them it was personal in the worst possible way. He put all the pieces together when he was 13 -- why he had no grandparents, why so few cousins, and he found out about the existence and names of his 4 siblings and their mother, and much more. It was shattering.

For me, it was history, and very far away. Tho I read many novels and memoirs of the time, they were not about me. My mother said: Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. So I asked questions and she explained as best she could. She was born in 1924 in Colorado, and this was the war she grew up in.

As to your question, I don't believe children should be dropped into history's worst without any background or context. It's up to the adults to frame the information.

cate94

(2,810 posts)
16. How old was Anne Frank
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:33 PM
Apr 2017

When she first had to go into hiding? How old was she when she died? With every war, how many children are killed and how many live through what you only saw on TV? I was quite young when I first saw some of these images, but being haunted just proves you have a heart. Be grateful for that heart. It would be so much worse if it didn't bother you.

Demonaut

(8,914 posts)
30. a tv show will never encompass the tragedy of the Warsaw Ghetto
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 08:08 PM
Apr 2017

Last edited Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:48 AM - Edit history (1)

you got off lightly

The Blue Flower

(5,442 posts)
17. My uncle was a teenager in the ghetto who resisted and survived
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:37 PM
Apr 2017

His name was Martin Rose. He was 15 when he became part of the resistance in the ghetto. He took a bullet, I believe in his hand, but he survived the uprising and the camp they sent him to. He later came to the US, to Detroit, and married my mother's sister. I honor his name.

The Blue Flower

(5,442 posts)
22. Thank you
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:02 PM
Apr 2017

When things have looked so dire in the * years and now, I have been inspired and guided by what he did. We have no excuse to avoid resistance.

oldcynic

(385 posts)
19. every time we forget, they come again
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:49 PM
Apr 2017

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

madamesilverspurs

(15,800 posts)
20. We were introduced to "The Diary of Anne Frank"
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 06:53 PM
Apr 2017

in a 1960 junior high English class; the teacher read it aloud to us. It helped my understanding of the background for Leon Uris' "Mila 18" when I was in high school. It's odd to recall that both books were presented in English classes; history was taught by off-season coaches and way too much was sped through or glossed over. But my first semester of college brought a history professor who'd not only been there, he'd written the text book for the course. With eyes thus opened, it's not possible to see and hear without considerable alarm so many of today's events. Those who ask why I march and protest get a very long answer.


.

spike jones

(1,678 posts)
23. I was 14 when...
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:19 PM
Apr 2017

I was 14 when I fully realized what the Holocaust was about. It was when Eichmann was caught and I then read the book, Auschwitz, which just traumatized me.

Here is a good read about the Holocaust and what is happening today.

How Do You Kill 11 Million People by Andy Andrews

“Through the lens of the Holocaust, Andy examines how Hitler was able to get eleven million people to march to their deaths with so little resistance. In short, he lied to them. And, sadly, they believed it.
If the truth is what sets us free, we need to ask what it means to live in a society where truth is absent, where we are routinely lied to by politicians of both parties, Wall Street, and the media. What is at stake? Can we survive in such a culture of deception?
Our only hope, Andy argues, is an informed citizenry that demands truth at every level—first from themselves and second from their leaders. We must be able to separate fact from fiction, truth from lies, and hold those who lie accountable.
This is a short book. You can literally read it in less than an hour. But don’t be fooled by its size. It’s a little book that could be the start of something very big. It’s a book you will want to read for yourself and then give to others.”

“People are being rounded-up all over the country. The numbers are small and scattered now, but the mechanism is being established. It is vans and buses now, when the cattle cars start screaming by, how loudly will you be singing?”

“The Holocaust resulted neither from a confluence of circumstances beyond human control nor from history’s inexorable march. It happened because ordinary people failed to stop it.”

calimary

(81,220 posts)
28. Welcome to DU, spike jones!
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:53 PM
Apr 2017

THIS LINE ALONE is worth never forgetting:

“The Holocaust resulted neither from a confluence of circumstances beyond human control nor from history’s inexorable march. It happened because ordinary people failed to stop it.”

"...because ordinary people failed to stop it."

Take a lesson, everybody. That statement is still relevant, and still applies.

Mesee

(42 posts)
24. Behind the Aegis
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:20 PM
Apr 2017

My ancestors come from Warsaw, Poland. Tragically my material grandmother's mother, Lenna Stern/Samter died in the Warsaw Ghetto. According to the Red Cross she died of starvation. May her soul rest in peace.

The Jewish Cemetery in Warsaw, Poland buried my Great Grandmother in a mass grave after the end of World War 11. Her name is engraved in a Remembrance Wall there. I was able to locate the headstone of her husband, my Great Grandfather who died on 3/23/1909.

My dear friend is returning for the 3rd time and will be able to visit the Jewish Cemetery to take pictures for me.

In Warsaw, Poland a new museum in Remember of the Jewish People has been built recently. It is the largest Jewish museum in the World with a history of 400 years. Anyone can go and view online the magnificent work that they recorded.


calimary

(81,220 posts)
29. Welcome to DU, Mesee.
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:59 PM
Apr 2017

Thank you for the testament.

This older, Jewish boutique owner where my mom shopped all the time was from the "old country," and was the only survivor of her entire family. Her WHOLE FAMILY was killed in one of the concentration camps.

I cannot even begin to imagine the pain. I bet you think about your great grandmother all the time. I bet she'd like that. In one way, she still lives.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
25. We just had a lunch at work on "Inspiring Women" and I chose Irena Sendler who
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:36 PM
Apr 2017

rescued about 2,500 Jewish Children from the Warsaw Ghetto - more than twice than Schindler, not to diminish his efforts in any way. However very few people know about her, but she was truly brave and had assistance from other Polish heroes in Zegota (the Polish Council to aid Jews). Here is a brief description of her story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler although there is much more written about her.

There was also a film that I like called "Defiance" about an account of the Bielski partisans, a group led by Polish Jewish brothers who saved and recruited Jews in Belarus during the Second World War who fought against the Nazis and helped many Jews to survive in the Belarus forests. Here is a little bit about the story of the Bielski Brothers who led them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielski_partisans

Thanks for sharing your inspiring information!

BigDemVoter

(4,149 posts)
26. Although 75 years seems like a long time, many of us have family members who
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:42 PM
Apr 2017

perished during the Shoah. I never wanted to dwell on it, as my grandfather was simply destroyed by it. He could never get over having lost his parents and beloved sister. Sadly, years later upon requesting information from the International Tracing Service, it came to light that he (my grandfather) had been trying to discover what had happened to his family all the way into the 1960s.

I'm old now, too, but I can remember.

hatrack

(59,583 posts)
32. I think that was the Warsaw Uprising, which was summer of 1944 . . .
Wed Apr 19, 2017, 08:25 PM
Apr 2017

You're entirely correct re. the Soviets, though, during the 1944 battle - keeping the uprising going just long enough to ensure maximum casualties among both Poles and Nazis before winter set in.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,324 posts)
34. I'm watching the most recent Nova about The Holocaust escape tunnels in Vilna Lithuania
Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:42 AM
Apr 2017
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/Holocaust-escape-tunnel.html

It seems like every time I read about these atrocities or watch a documentary, it's like it's all new to me again. I guess I can never wrap my head around the scale of brutality.

Behind the Aegis

(53,950 posts)
35. We saw that toinight as well.
Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:55 AM
Apr 2017

It was very good and quite interesting. There some things I didn't know about the Jewish community there. I knew it was large, but not that big and for that long.

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